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Fridays Child Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 10:22 AM
Original message
William F. Buckley has died.
Edited on Wed Feb-27-08 10:22 AM by Fridays Child
Source: MSNBC

Just breaking. No details yet.

No link yet.
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Guy Whitey Corngood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
1. Not to sound ghoulish. But I wish he would have held on 'til November. n/t
Edited on Wed Feb-27-08 10:29 AM by Guy Whitey Corngood
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Mountainman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
2. Well there goes about a couple of hundred words we will never hear again.
I never liked him. But he once said he used words so that they wouldn't go out of existence. I could never understand how he was considered brilliant. Conservatism is a very screwed up system but he could eloquently sell it to people. He spoke well but his ideas sucked.
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #2
29. I thought he was brilliant even though I didn't agree with him.
Edited on Wed Feb-27-08 11:18 AM by barb162
I saw him debate withJohn Kenneth Galbraith once and he even had Galbraith laughing his ass off and the audience rolling in the aisles. Buckley was funny and brilliant. Clever, clever man.

"He spoke well but his ideas sucked."
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On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #29
49. I Had a Soft Spot for Buckley as Well
He could come off as pretentious, but the aura of erudition he had was so overblown as to be almost campy. I doubt he really took himself all that seriously. He had an impish side and sometimes broke ranks with Republicans such as on returning the Panama Canal (he was in favor of it) and on drug legalization ("my daughter is at greater risk from the state than from the effects of any illegal substances she might consume.")

As far as his conservatism, the political environment was almost unrecognizable he came of age in the early 50s at Yale. The public mood was much more statist than it is now and there were a substantial number of communists in influential posts, at least in academia. I would have to say I oppose some of the same things he did, but by and large those things have fallen off the map.

Buckley was a master at debating by conceding enormous amounts of territory to the opposition and then winning on one or two key points. At the very end of a 1980s debate with Jesse Jackson on whether the PLO should be recognized, Jackson (who I thought had won up to that point) commented "and you say we shouldn't even be talking to them." Buckley replied "Of course we should be talking with them. But the proposition under debate was whether they should be recognized as the sole representative of the Palestinian people, and as long as they are committed to the destruction of Israel they should never be awarded that status.")



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Pogue.Mahone Donating Member (46 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #29
76. Oh, man...
i so agree with you! william f. buckley was charming, witty, brilliant, elegant and sophisticated...everything you'd expect the devil to be!!! :D :D :D

he hasn't been around awhile but i think the world is a little worse off with him gone. you know who he reminded me of??? daniel patrick moynihan. man, to be in heaven listening to those two debate!

now all we have is rush limbaugh, bill maher, o'reilly, olberman, coulter...none of them amount to a pimple on either buckley or moynihan's ass. :(
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civildisoBDence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #76
86. The Moynihan comparison is brilliant!
I couldn't agree more. And I'm damn proud of the tone of this thread.

Here's my tribute to Buckley:

American conservatism has lost its most brilliant and stalwart public intellectual. William F. Buckley died this morning at his home, following his wife, who died last year, and his dear friend Van Galbraith, who died last month.

Mr. Buckley's National Review had this to say this morning about the legacy of its founder and editor:

If ever an institution were the lengthened shadow of one man, this publication is his. So we hope it will not be thought immodest for us to say that Buckley has had more of an impact on the political life of this country and a better one than some of our presidents. He created modern conservatism as an intellectual and then a political movement.

In terms of Mr. Buckley's unwavering opposition to liberalism, NR notes:

When Buckley started National Review in 1955, at the age of 29 it was not at all obvious that anti-Communists, traditionalists, constitutionalists, and enthusiasts for free markets would all be able to take shelter under the same tent. Nor was it obvious that all of these groups, even gathered together, would be able to prevail over what seemed at the time to be an inexorable collectivist tide.

Though ruthless and relentless in his advocacy of conservative principles, Mr. Buckley was by temperament a true Southern gentleman. I can think of no better a tribute to this man than to point you to the gracious eulogies he published for two of his most bitter ideological (though not personal) enemies, Arthur Schlesinger and Norman Mailer, both of whom passed away last year.

Bon voyage, Bill. Happy sailing up there.


Newsprism

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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #76
97. Yes Moynihan was wonderful. Brilliance oozed out of every pore.
Some of these old guys... it was really worthwhile listening to them.
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #29
100. I must confess that I picked up a number of affectations from him...
the languid slouching in my seat, the hand to the side of the jaw, the quizzical eyebrow, etc...

I disagreed with 99.9% of everything that he ever said or wrote, but THE MAN HAD STYLE!
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coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #2
73. I'm a left-wing radical. But I have to speak up on behalf of
traditional Conservatism, a la Edmund Burke. It has a proud, storied intellectual heritage. Just so we're clear, Bush is to Conservatism as Hitler was to Communism. Which is to say, Bush is no conservative. He's a neo-fascist (a corporatist who uses racism and, to a lesser degree, sexism to smash his political enemies). Fascism is not Conservatism although both 'isms ' exist on the right side of the political spectrum. But Fascism is at the far end of the right, whereas Conservatism (a la Edmund Burke) is way to the left of the current crop of Repukes.
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BearSquirrel2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #2
110. Certainly his .... ahhhh .... ahhhh .... ahhhh .... ahhhhh ...

Certainly his ... ahhh ... ahhh ... ahhh ... ahhh ... punctilious and ... ahhh ... ahhh .... ahhh ... ahhh pedantic style cannot be ... ahhh ... ahhh ... ahhh .... ahhh ... ahhh ... calumniated. But his ... ahhh ... ahhh ... ahh ... ahhh ... impartment was ... ahhh ... ahhh ... literatimly ... quaverish.

Still he was an ... ahhh ... ahhh ... ahhh ... veracious ... ahhh ... ahhh ... ahhh ... ahhh ...ahhh ... oppugnant.

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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
3. The Right went so overboard he actually sounded semi-reasonable in the end
particularly on Iraq, which he opposed.

Whatever one's opinions of the man, he was a major figure in American politics.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #3
35. The GOP has lost a voice of moderation.
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BlueEyedSon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #35
87. Hell, they lost someone who could actually put a sentence together!
Edited on Wed Feb-27-08 03:45 PM by BlueEyedSon
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #87
93. Damn, you beat me to it!
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #87
94. Really.
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IsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-28-08 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #35
129. He was a moderate compared to the rabid people they have as their intellectuals now.
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
4. He was a cold hearted, self reverential cloistered conservative
of the old school. .

But he was not craven. Today's "conservatives" could have learned a thing or two.
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #4
30. It helps when you're born into a rich family like he was.
He could just sit back,observe and comment.
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smb Donating Member (761 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
5. The modern anti-intellecutal Right...
...no longer had any place for him, though they'll no doubt parrot the proper words of respect at his passing.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
53. Sad... he deserves more. (nt)
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Pogue.Mahone Donating Member (46 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #5
79. You know...
i bet he'd appreciate the comments more from THIS board than he would from across the aisle! :D
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #5
108. Frankly, I *prefer* 'em stupid...
...than smart with yet another layer of lies added on. Buckley sang pretty songs to justify the war on the poor.
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
6. So sad. In the days before the Far Right, he gave a respectful listen.
I remember seeing a debates between Buckley and leftists. The exchanges were tough and respectful. And Buckley was ahead of the curve when he came out against marijuana prohibition. He seems like an anachronism when one looks at the GOP today: a conservative.

May he find the finest vineyards on high.
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ReformedChris Donating Member (252 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
7. RIP: More Libertarian over time then Repuke. He was in favor of Drug Legalization
Anyone who puts personal liberty on a pedastal deserves respect. But many of his views were annoying and took away from some of his other thoughts. I Wish him Godspeed in his next journey.
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kegler14 Donating Member (541 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
8. Buckley was against the Iraq war
and I respected him for his vast expertise in the English language.He also rejected the John Birch Society as nut cases. We didn't agree on much of anything, but he's one conservative I had some respect for. RIP
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On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #8
50. I Was Reading the Preface of a Dictionary
(don't ask me why), and it began something like this:

"People often wonder how dictionaries know when new words are created and which words to include. To answer only partly in jest: They ask me. (This is because it was written by Buckley and he was on the reivew board.)

I find this to be hilarious, as if he were trying to elicit the reaction ("Damn you, Bill Buckley, why would anyone ask you what should be in the dictionary?")
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Cronus Protagonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
9. Awww, that brought tears to my eyes
Tears of joy.

:P

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BigDaddy44 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #9
33. You forgot something
How about the part where you can't wait to piss on his grave?

Such a classy response. The old adage of never speak ill of the dead does make you better than your adversary should you care to be.
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Cronus Protagonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #33
42. I would not piss on his grave if it was on fire
I might, just might, dance on it, though.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #9
38. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Cronus Protagonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #38
40. You're soooo right
:sarcasm:


Go fuck yourself.
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BobbyVan Donating Member (502 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #40
51. You and I may both vote Democratic...
...but Buckley showed greater character than you.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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Cronus Protagonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #51
68. Yeah, well I never voted for a war criminal and I never supported a coup in the US
And there's lots of other things I would never do and say that Buckley had no compunction about. Good riddance to him. Such is my right as a living person over a dead dickhead.

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BigDaddy44 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #68
75. Wow....dickhead
Another big word. Tell me, do you sneak over to the teachers computer to type these messages every time she leaves the room?
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Cronus Protagonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #75
95. Hahaha, you almost make me laugh
It's not often someone brings out that old chestnut in place of actual humor. No wait, it happens ALL the time.
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civildisoBDence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #68
82. Grow a heart, CroPro
You make the coldest conservative look warm. And a big old "fuck you" right back atcha.

Newsprism's tribute to Buckley
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Cronus Protagonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #82
96. Your love for Buckley reveals something more than you know
And the coldest conservative IS Buckley right now. That's something that truly warms my still beating heart.
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
10. Alas, he is deceased, that is to say, departed, perished, reposed, perhaps you might allow...defunct
dare I go so far as to mention, unanimated.
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bigworld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #10
21. I rather enjoyed that. +1, jgraz!
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DBoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #10
37. and is he just pining for the fjords?
nt
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verges Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #10
41. Very good...
:rofl:

I am pleased to see that this thread is mostly in a tone of respect. When I clicked on it, I feared it wouldn't be. He was brilliant. He was also wrong.
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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #41
63. "He was brilliant. He was also wrong."
Succinct. Accurate. I'll throw in a respectful nod.
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Festivito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #10
55. I will miss the pleasant prose.
But not lending credibiliy to the conservativism that conserves nothing, that rathers destroys, spends, borrows, entangles and entraps its doomed.

...and the Lord says: I never knew you.
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DrZeeLit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #10
60. Your post is fantabulous, adriot, ingenious, canny, pertinent, and dare I say
estimable, virtuous, appropo,and scrumptious.

I have devoured with delight.

Loving language, I tolerated Buckley. His early views on McCarthy, black voting rights, and women were horrendous.
I heard he decried the Iraq war and on occasion, Bush himself. If that is so, I commend his spirit.
And even if not, a valiant opponent deserves a peaceful rest.
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #10
65. ..and soon to be inhumed... Godspeed, Mr. Buckley. We won't see your like again soon. nt
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Wilber_Stool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #10
72. He is an ex-pundit......n/t
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #10
91. LOL!
nicely done
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keroro gunsou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #10
107. lest we not forget...
*with apolgies to monty python*

he's not opining, he's passed on! he has ceased to be! he's expired and gone on to meet the editor! he's a stiff! befret of life, he rests in peace. if you hadn't glued him to the chair he slocuhes in he'd be pushing up the daisies! his metabolic processes are history! he's off his chair, he's kicked the bucket, he's run down the curtains and joined the bleedin' choir invisible! he's fucking snuffed it! this... is an ex-william f buckley....

didn't much like some of his ideas, but the man was a great thinking and writer and he knew how to take language and use it as a cleaver on his opponents, and that's the highest praise i can give him.
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snailly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #10
111. I logged in to tell you I just snorted wine out of my nose.
That was positively perfect and should be on his tombstone. I think he would actually get a good chuckle out of that comment. Thanks for the laugh!
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-28-08 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #111
122. I trust it was ahhhh an amusing little wine with ahhhh a bit of presumption....nt
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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
11. I used to watch "Firing Line" all the time. All of us Commies watched.
So long Bill. You were alive for such a short, little time and you will be dead forever. One of the reasons he had a rapprochement with the RCC, was his inability to conceive of an existence without William F. Buckley. No problems any more, Bill, you can no longer conceive of anything at all...
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #11
23. I'm one who saw Firing Line a few times. Buckley was always ready
to go in for the kill. He made a good case for his belief system. But he was wrong.
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calmblueocean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
12. Bush cons have turned on Buckley in recent years.
It'll be interesting to see how they memorialize him, seeing as he denounced Bush as 'not a true conservative'.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/07/22/eveningnews/m...

Buckley: Bush Not A True Conservative
CBS News Exclusive: Buckley Criticizes President For Interventionist Policies

Asked if the Bush administration has been distracted by Iraq, Buckley says "I think it has been engulfed by Iraq, by which I mean no other subject interests anybody other than Iraq... The continued tumult in Iraq has overwhelmed what perspectives one might otherwise have entertained with respect to, well, other parts of the Middle East with respect to Iran in particular."

Despite evidence that Iran is supplying weapons and expertise to Hezbollah in the conflict with Israel, Buckley rejects neo-conservatives who favor a more interventionist foreign policy, including a pre-emptive air strike against Iran and its nuclear facilities.

"If we find there is a warhead there that is poised, the range of it is tested, then we have no alternative. But pending that, we have to ask ourselves, 'What would the Iranian population do?'"

* * *

He almost sounds like one of ours there. Almost.
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Thothmes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
13. RIP
Didn't agree with this man on many issues, but he certainly was the most elequent speaker for the consertive cause. In some cases he seemed to be the only sane one of the bunch.
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pattmarty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
14. Good fucking riddance!!!!!!!!!
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rosetta627 Donating Member (515 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. Good riddance CIA propagandist "Crypto-Fascist" scum
Gore Vidal knew what he was talking about.
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ourbluenation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #14
43. does anyone from the other side of the isle deserve any respect in your view?
Edited on Wed Feb-27-08 11:59 AM by ourbluenation
I may not have agreed with him on many issues, but he was a gentleman and certainly, like you and me, he was entitled to his opinions. He also was one of the first republicans to state that his support for the Iraq war as wrong, and the war was wrong.

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pattmarty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #43
54. Look, I grew up during his early years as the ONLY (at the time)......
..... intellectual "voice" of the right in the 50's & early 60's. This is the time (in case you aren't aware) that the right consisted of groups like the John Birch Society and whatever the name of the rag and group your buddy "the golden mouth" belonged to. I am a liberal of the 60's when you stood up and didn't turn the other cheek when attacked. In those days you didn't wait until you were attacked and cower, you stood up and fought. If you want to "respect" people like John "Boner", Newt Gingrich, Tom Delay, Trent Lott and the other shitbags, then go right the fuck ahead. Have you had your head in a hole for the past 30 yrs (if you are even that old)? "We" have been treated like lepers by the "compassionate" conservatives. Remember when George the 1st made his statement about the "dirty L word"? What about Ann Coulter, Michael Savage, Bill O'Reilley and I could go on all day naming these ass holes that I only have contempt for. So if you want to play "go along, get along" then by all means have at it, but don't expect me (and a lot of others) to play along with you. These shitbags mean business and I will not deal with these people until they show that they can be bi-partisan (like in the 50's and early 60's when at least they were reasonable and you could reach a compromise with them.
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ourbluenation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. oh please, you're throwing all righties into one big blob. it's silly and you sound like a kook.
ps) I'm 44.
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pattmarty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #56
58. Yeah, okay stick your head back in the sand. There are a lot.......
Edited on Wed Feb-27-08 12:57 PM by pattmarty
..... other left leaning people out there that feel the same as I. Just read some of the other comments on this thread, I rest my case.
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ourbluenation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #58
77. Coulter & Co weren't fit to lick his boots. If you and other "left leaning people" on DU wanna
lump him in with the rest of that cabal, you're no better than the right-wing extremists. he.was.different. I would love to see more conservatives, and liberals for that matter, on the air debating in his style...honest debate without all the name calling and flame baiting. He reminded me of Thom Hartmann, a man who can have an opinion without being a complete asshole. That's a good thing.

And now you're throwing me under the bus too...I'm "sticking my head in the sand" because I disagree with you. As if.

Your "case" is indeed rested. It wasn't one to begin with.
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pattmarty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #77
92. Yeah, okay. Disagree you did, and you're still wrong about him.
Edited on Wed Feb-27-08 04:53 PM by pattmarty
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #14
66. This is wrong for an RIP thread, okay? Take it elsewhere. nt
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Cronus Protagonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #66
69. Hahaha, you make me laugh
:P
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pattmarty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #66
99. Oh please, we're not talking about Franklin Roosevelt here.
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #99
105. That's not the issue...
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pattmarty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-28-08 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #105
119. Then what? A prayer for the dead? He was a Catholic, let us pray.
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-28-08 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #119
123. Those here who are unable to meet him on his intellectual ground have sounded like boors...
His intellect and tongue were rapier-sharp, and he was respectful of his opponents, generating respect in turn.

Some in this thread, alas, have wielded their intellects and language-skills like blunt objects, generating no respect for their point of view.

Hekate

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pattmarty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-28-08 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #123
124. Yeah, and so fucking what? Read the article today in the........
.............UK Guardian about "your hero". The guy was a huge ass hole, end of story.
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-28-08 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #124
126. Not a hero. And you win the Iggy prize.
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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
15. Aw, man...
Edited on Wed Feb-27-08 11:02 AM by Prag
I'm sorry to hear that, really. :/

I was once asked, "What would be the Psychological Opposite of an Acid Trip?" and my reply was, "Listening to
William F. Buckley talk about anything."

Over the years his image and reputation has served me well as an integral part of my "Clown Repellent Strategy".

So long William F. Buckley and I hope you now find the truth.

:(
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #15
24. i'd sooner listen to Buckley read the phone book for 10 hours
than listen to Coulter, Savage or Beck for a combined 30 seconds....Compared to what passes for political discourse today, Buckley seems almost reasonable
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #24
32. YES!
How times have changed.
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eppur_se_muova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
16.  William F. Buckley dies at 82 (CNN)
NEW YORK (AP) -- Author and conservative commentator William F. Buckley Jr. has died at age 82.

His assistant Linda Bridges says Buckley died Wednesday morning at his home in Stamford, Connecticut.

Buckley became famous for his intellectual political writings in his magazine, the National Review.

that's all: http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/02/27/obit.buckley.ap/index....

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bigworld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. I always enjoyed his writings on language
despite his politics. RIP.
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Red Zelda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
19. Buckley and Myron Cope on the same day?????
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #19
28. Myron Cope DIED??? "This is Myron Cope, ON SPORTS!" OMG, this old
Pittsburgh gal had no idea! :cry:
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kstewart33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
20. I respected him. He was a great intellect and was no hack.
Good that he lived to a ripe old age. Rest in peace, Mr. Buckley.
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. He was, but god he was such an arrogant ass!
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bigworld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #22
26. I sometimes wonder how much of that was an act.
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #26
31. You know, that thought crossed my mind too. :)
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On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #31
52. He Absolutely Came Across as Arrogant
but to me it was so over the top that it was almost a goof. Someone who knew him in college said he was the same way. He was a conservative Catholic, but more importantly I think he was a debater at heart that just liked to have fun with words and score points on people.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #20
85. I loved listening to him talk, just to hear the words and for no other reason!
Edited on Wed Feb-27-08 03:25 PM by lonestarnot
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
25. RIP. He never really became a Neocon, so I had some respect for him.
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The Blue Flower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
27. Fitting
His brand of conservatism has died as well.
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montanto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
34. Wow, he was a great writer. That I respect.
His ideas sucked ass though.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
36. the ''father of modern american catholic conservatism''.
it's his ideas along with paul weyrich that have given us much of what we suffer through today in our culture.

it's his thinking that has propelled conservative catholics to fore in the republick party -- just look at the supremes.

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DBoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
39. An apologist for Franco's Fascism

Since its founding in 1955, National Review has been a haven for writers who are, if not fascists tout court, certainly fascist fellow travellers.

Let's put it this way: if Woodrow Wilson and Hillary Clinton are fascists then what word do we have for those who admired Francisco Franco? When the Spanish tyrant died in 1975, National Review published two effusive obituaries. F.R. Buckley (brother to National Review founder William F. Buckley) hailed Franco as "a Spaniard out of the heroic annals of the nation, a giant. He will be truly mourned by Spain because with all his heart and might and soul, he loved his country, and in the vast context of Spanish history, did well by it." James Burnham simply argued that "Francisco Franco was our century's most successful ruler." (Both quotes are from the November 21, 1975 issue). Aside from F.R. Buckley and Burnham, many of the early National Reviewers were ardent admirers of Franco's Spain, which they saw as an authentically Catholic nation free from the vices supposedly gripping the United States and the northern European countries. National Review stalwarts like Frederick Wilhelmsen, Arnold Lunn, and L. Brent Bozell, Jr. made pilgrimages to Spain, finding spiritual nourishment in the dictatorship's seemingly steadfast Catholicism.

The really twisted side National Review's philo-fascism came through in 1961 when Israel captured Adolph Eichmann, a leading Nazi, and tried him for crimes against humanity. National Review did everything they could editorially to offer extenuating arguments against the prosecution of Eichmann, arguing that he was being subjected to a "show trial", that this was post facto justice, that pursuing Nazi crimes would weaken the Western alliance and further the cause of communism. As the magazine editorialized on April 22, 1961, the trial of Eichmann was a "lurid extravaganza" leading to "bitterness, distrust, the refusal to forgive, the advancement of Communist aims, the cultivation of pacifism." (The editors didn't consider that a mere 16 years after the death camps were liberated, a "refusal to forgive" the architects of genocide might be understandable).

...

In his 1987 book From This Moment On, National Review editor Jeffrey Hart made a remarkable attempt to rehabilitate the reputation of Benito Mussolini. According to Hart, Il Duce made only "a single error in judgement" (his decision to support Hitler in 1940). Other than that, everything the fascist leader did was hunky-dory. "His 1922 blackshirt march on Rome brought to an end a period of political deadlock and leftist riot," Hart asserts. "His domestic achievements were substantial.... There was repression, the administrating of doses of castor oil, but no Gulags and Belsens or Cambodian-style slaughter....Mussolini was probably better read than any other national leader of his time.... Mussolini's leadership made even proletarians take some pride in being Italian, and his addresses, broadcast across the Atlantic, were listened to with respect in American-Italian households.... Mussolini stood 5 feet 6 inches and had a massive, handsome head.... Mussolini liked to interrupt his working day several times with sexual intercourse, often standing up and in his uniform, a very rapid performance." The ode to Mussolini's character and sexual prowess ends, appropriately enough, with a quote from Ezra Pound, the fascist poet.



from http://www.amazon.com/Goldbergs-Fascism-Thing-Jeet-Heer...

and yes, I wish I had the original sources, but finding NR online archives is a bit difficult...
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bean fidhleir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #39
62. "arguing that he [Eichmann] was being subjected to a 'show trial'"
Well, as history has shown, he was. As were the defendents at Nuremberg. They were show trials because (a) the crimes the defendents were hanged for weren't crimes when they were committed and (b) the "leaders" of the US and Israel have done and are doing things of the same nature (aggressive war, killing innocents, etc).

We should acknowledge the truth, especially when it hurts.
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Cheap_Trick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
44. throw wide the gates of Hell
greet your new arrival.
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CBHagman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #44
67. I confess that's precisely what I thought.
A friend of mine actually met/saw Buckley at an event (probably a book fair or similar) and said the guy actually gave off a sense of evil.
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
45. Buckley dead and Conrad Black in jail
The per capita obscure English word usage of the human race has now dropped precipitously. OED sales will plummet.
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harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
46. I respect him, a RW'er with an intellect, a rare breed (n/t)
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LeftHander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
47. Buckley was a avid sailor.
I can respect him for that. And for his books about sailing which are pleasant, entertaining reads.

I have had the opportunity to mix it up with local high powered conservatives on the race course before when I skippered a 30ft. Catalina. Nothing levels and eliminates political divides like a regatta ...and kegs of beer afterwards.

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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #47
70. So were William Colby and Philip Merrill...and they are both dead too
Yes, jounalism has always been an excellent cover for covert operatives, propagandists, etc. And that is what William Buckley was.

James Jesus Angleton grew orchids. John Edgar Hoover and Cylde Tolson liked horses. Adolph Hitler painted.

Buckley circulated in the same crowd as William Colby and Philip Merrill-they all are dead too.

Here's a few links for those interested.

Philip Merrill Right Web profile
http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/1300

William Colby page from Spartacus Schoolnet
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/SScolby.htm

Journalism as covert operative cover and operational value articles

Team B Strategic Objectives Panel (Right Web)
http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/2822.html

Talk: Operation Mockingbird page (Source Watch)
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Talk:Operati...

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AlCzervik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
48. his son writes some funny stuff, "Thank you for smoking" was a hilarious book.
rip Mr. Buckley.
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
57. The man who declared in the 50's that only whites should get to vote,
since they're the "superior race". Father of modern conservatism indeed.
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
59. Oh woe is me.
Edited on Wed Feb-27-08 01:28 PM by ooglymoogly
A real genius, Gore Vidal, showed Buckley to be not more than another dumb pug who's pomposity served as a poor second to brilliance that was further dumbed by religion. Alas he has gone to that place where all deluded Catholics go, where they can constantly reassure each other they are in heaven while having no clue what heaven should be.
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lunatica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
61. He vaunted his superior intelect faithfully
Edited on Wed Feb-27-08 01:00 PM by lunatica
He was good at some things. Being snide, supercilious, jeering, haughty, disdainful, arrogant, loathsome sneering and contemptuous. Ann Coulter will take flowers to his grave regularly, just like she does to McCarthy's.

edited for grammatical correction
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nebula Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
64. An open-minded conservative
I always respected Buckley for his views on certain things, including his position that the War On Drugs has been a disaster, that it has done more harm than good and marijuana should be legalized. Rest in peace.
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Cronus Protagonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-28-08 06:00 AM
Response to Reply #64
112. Yeah, that's an oxymoron, by the way
And if he was open minded, he didn't show it much.

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Hardrada Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
71. I'll kind of miss him in the sense one misses an old coal-fired
power station on the edge of town that had interesting architecture but did some serious pollution before it was torn down.

Still, he did have a way with words and anyone who values the language and rues the current aliteracy admires that.
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-28-08 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #71
127. "Aliteracy" is certainly an apt word for our condition. Thanks for supplying it. nt
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CRH Donating Member (671 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
74. Oh William F. Buckley, to use the other half of your double entente, ...
If you were right, I would have agreed with you.

But I've got to admit, when you and Gore Vidal spared with words, it was entertaining.
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RobertSeattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
78. "William Buckley" is "Rush Limbaugh" spelled backwards
You could disagree with Buckley without Buckley going all 3rd grade on you.
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Pogue.Mahone Donating Member (46 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #78
80. THAT is...
a great observation!!! :D
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Ysabel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
81. nice link here...
Edited on Wed Feb-27-08 02:24 PM by Ysabel
from suzieqq.wordpress (nytimes article) also incl. two video debates: gore vidal vs. buckley in 1962 and noam chomsky vs. buckley - part one of two - some years later...

http://suzieqq.wordpress.com/2008/02/27/william-f-buckl...




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Hand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
83. I'll say this much for him...
I outlived the son of a bitch.
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THUNDER HANDS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
84. link to Buckley - Chomsky debate
you've seen it before, I'm sure...but never hurts to watch again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYlMEVTa-PI
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-28-08 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #84
115. I was going to post this...
A young (hot!) Chomsky cuts through his
arguments like a knife through butter.

It helps to be right.
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ananda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
88. One good thing about Buckley..
He was for legalization of drugs.
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
89. HAH! no wonder the sun came out today n/t
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
90. Now there are NO articulate republicans
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
98. I met him once, when he gave a speech on our campus. Though I disagreed with him on about everything
he was very well-spoken, quick on his feet, and witty. He was also very gracious and warm to even those he knew disagreed with him, at least that day, in that place, on that occasion. I have a feeling it wasn't just then, though.

He was proof, to me anyway, that you can vehemently disagree with your political/ideological opponents and still respect them - some of them, anyway. His pale imitators in these latter years - the Limbaugh's, the Hannitys, all the rest of the hate radio darlings - are impossible to have any kind of respect for. But Buckley was different. I certainly have more respect for him than the small minority of useless fucks here I see disgracing themselves and this forum with internet high-fives over the man's passing - to me, such folks are just as contemptible as the Limbaugh's and Hannitys they claim to despise. Worse, actually, because as "progressives" they're supposed to know better.

In any event, my condolences to his family, and RIP.
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Fridays Child Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #98
103. Well said. nt
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 06:10 PM
Response to Original message
101. The classic exchange...
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sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
102. R.I.P. and a Rec
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
104. Goodbye Fascist (nt)
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MisterP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
106. the praise for his "respectability" and "erudition"
remind me of how Iran-Contra investigation and public consideration was derailed by North's "patriotism": from that concession they managed to smother criticism of North and his deeds. Without Buckley and his New Right hothouse, we wouldn't have had the Reagan Revolution, Reagan Democrats, and DLC control
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santamargarita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
109. Good! This Nazi Bastard's Damage is Done!
K&R
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Cronus Protagonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-28-08 06:01 AM
Response to Reply #109
113. Hahaah, why isn't anyone attacking you for this?
Edited on Thu Feb-28-08 06:01 AM by Cronus Protagonist
I just wanted to dance on his grave and I had a slew of Republican-lovers try to slap me around.
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Trajan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-28-08 07:26 AM
Response to Original message
114. Someone has already said it ....
He was brilliant, and plain-assed WRONG ....

A highly intelligent thinker who was deluded by the idealistic emblems of conservatism, and blinded to the realities ...
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-28-08 08:21 AM
Response to Original message
116. I've enjoyed reading his books since I was in HS...
Seems I'm in the minority here-- I've enjoyed reading his books since I was in HS. I can attribute part of my political awakening to his body of non-fiction. The guy had a wonderful writing style, made many cogent points, and though I currently disagree with the majority of his positions, it was nice to read a counter-position that was actually well-thought out and based on intellect rather than fear.

Again, this is one of the times where I can easily separate the art from the artist and recognize his prolific and thought provoking essays despite what he may or may not have practiced in his own life.

Heck, I disagree with Gore Vidal's (the other "extreme") positions almost as much as I do Buckley's, which is all the better a reason to read their collected works-- best way to expand my own world-view and allow myself perceptions I'd never entertained before.
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-28-08 08:34 AM
Response to Original message
117. Is THIS why our flags are at half-staff
I hope not but they're like that today in Delaware. And we're a pretty liberal state
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plasticsundance Donating Member (786 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-28-08 09:02 AM
Response to Original message
118. Fuck 'em. He's dead. Another one bites the dust!
Yeah, baby!! That's one I'm talking about!

Everybody loves you when you're dead
And everyone is suddenly you're dearest friend
Nobody talks no dirt about you
But life it just goes on above your head
When you're dead

Everybody miss you when you're gone
They'll reminisce about you
When they hear your favorite song
They'll think that they said something wrong
They'll wonder if there was something they shoud've said
When you're gone

And I'm never gonna tell a lie
And I'm never gonna wear a tie
And I'm never gonna say goodbye
Goodbye

Life is so much better when you're dead
Conversation's easy when there's nothing to be said
But it can get a little lonesome
Maybe you should take along a friend
Like I said

And I'm never gonna tell a lie
And I'm never gonna wear a tie
And if I can't walk, maybe I can fly
Don't ask the reason why
But I'm never gonna say goodbye
Goodbye


- Cop Shoot Cop
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jzodda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-28-08 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #118
121. You sound like a real nice person.......
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budkin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-28-08 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
120. Karma is going devour this guy's worthless soul
Payback is a bitch ain't it?


The central question that emergesis whether the White community in the South is entitled to take such measures as are necessary to prevail, politically and culturally, in areas where it does not predominate numerically? The sobering answer is Yesthe White community is so entitled because, for the time being, it is the advanced race.

William F. Buckley, National Review, August 24, 1957
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happydreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-28-08 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
125. Buckley was worse than Bush...
He had a vocabulary to fool more of the people more of the time.
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Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-28-08 05:32 PM
Response to Original message
128. I never had anything nice to say about him while he was alive. So I'll just leave it at that.
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sofa king Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-28-08 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
130. Wonkette: WFB has died, leaving no intellectual heirs.
I'm in love with that woman.
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