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Earth_First Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 11:29 PM
Original message
Breaking CNN: Clinton will win California Primary
Source: http://www.cnn.com /

Breaking CNN no link

No link yet.



Breaking CNN no link
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Matteon Donating Member (154 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 11:41 PM
Response to Original message
1. The race goes on.
Apparently it's a somewhat lopsided win for HRC in Calif. That's a rough blow for Obama, but overall it still looks like Super Tuesday hasn't decided anything. As of this post Obama has been declared the winner in Missouri and has taken 12 races with, I think, 2 left to still be declared. Depending on how those last 2 races go, the delegate count for HRC and Obama could be separated by less than 100. If the delegates from Florida and Michigan are eventually seated at the convention, that might end up being the difference.
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Sancho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-06-08 12:16 AM
Response to Original message
2. I'm going to vote for the Democratic candidate no matter what...
but if Hillary has won NY, FL, and California, then she should be the best bet. I wouldn't mind seeing Hillary and Obama run together, but that may not be realistic.


:dem:
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-06-08 01:12 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. There's more and more talk of that happening.
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-06-08 02:08 AM
Response to Reply #2
14. (Note: Hillary didn't win Florida)
the race was not contested.

And I don't see how her winning in those 3 states relates to whom should be the nominee. I thought we were shooting for a 50-state strategy, not a 3-state strategy.
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Sancho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-06-08 05:21 AM
Response to Reply #14
22. If it were contested...Hillary would win Florida bigger than the vote...
Obama ran ads here. Hillary did not. We had a very large turnout anyway. Everyone here has TV. We have lots of older women and Hispanics. As you may or may not know, Florida makes it tough for African American's to register and vote (at least, that's what is reported). A contested race here was a big win for Hillary.

I'm not taking sides, just being objective. The states with the big electoral college go to Hillary. Of course, a combined ticket may be the best to beat McCain.


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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-06-08 06:26 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. Neither Florida nor Michigan had any real advertising or campaigning.
Whatever few ads might have run, I'm sure the number was paltry in comparison to what New York and California saw.

And it is far from objective to speculate that Hillary's Florida margin would have been *greater* if all the candidates had fully campaigned and advertised. It defies all logic -- assuming the candidates ran campaigns similar to what they've run in other states. (i.e. avoiding any macaca moments)

As for the turnout, the turnout may have seemed very large, but Florida's Democratic turnout was notably smaller than the Republican turnout, indicating lesser excitement and participation among Florida Democrats than their counterparts in other states. If the trend in other states held, a contested Democratic primary in Florida would have had a much greater participation level than that for the Republicans.

One final note, Hillary may not have broken the "no campaign" pledge in Florida, but she sure as heck bent it.
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Mend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-06-08 06:47 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. thanks for trying to discount my vote and my family's votes for Hillary....
how the hell do you know how much "excitement" we feel? We were told our votes wouldn't count and almost a million of us Democrats went to the polls anyway to vote for her, with nothing much else on the ballot to draw us out. There were no campaign offices open, no signs, no ads for her but we voted anyway. We are sending a message on who we want for President and it is Hillary Clinton.
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-06-08 07:14 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. I feel your pain, and I hope you feel mine, as well.
Don't try to personalize this as my having somehow insulted you or your family. Florida's politicians created this mess. And there's a simple enough solution to remedy it, without forcing a tainted delegate count onto the convention.

Who is Florida to run a tainted election, YET AGAIN... which may well result in the disenfranchisement of tens of millions of voters, yet again! There were no signs, campaign offices or ads for other candidates, either, so Florida's Democratic primary fell something short of a "free and fair" election. If Florida's delegates, as currently voted, are used to override the candidate who otherwise has the majority of delegates, there will be hell to pay.


Re: 'how the hell do you know how much "excitement" we feel?' --- Putting aside the offensive language, I'm pretty sure I laid out exactly what the basis for my speculation was, including qualifying statements that you appear to have opted-out on. Regardless, I won't be held responsible for you taking my general, qualified statement regarding the overall excitement of the Florida Democratic electorate as a specific assault on your family; nor will I try to disabuse you of the notion that Florida's lesser Democratic turnout doesn't break the trend seen most everywhere else in the nation thus far.

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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-06-08 07:32 AM
Response to Reply #14
27. What do you mean uncontested?
All the candidates were on the ballot and Obama was the only one running ads. How is that uncontested?
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-06-08 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. Really? How many ads? How much campaigning was done in the state?
And don't feed me the b-s that Hillary didn't advertise or campaign. I know better. Sell it to somebody who's buying.
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-06-08 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. That's just pathetic
So, he breaks the pledge not to campaign and Hillary is the devil because she wants FL and MI votes to count. I'm in an alternative universe here.
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-06-08 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. If that's all you took away from that information, then there's nothing further to discuss. n/t
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trashcanistanista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-06-08 12:30 AM
Response to Original message
3. Not yet,too early to tell.
Phenomenal turnout, many lasat minute voters and at least an hour to close the precinct due to all the extra security stuff. They have not yet started counting all of the returns. Early numbers are absentee. Not possible to call it yet.
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laconicsax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-06-08 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. Exit polls say
Clinton: 52.7%
Obama: 39.4%
Edwards: 6%

Since exit polls tend to be very accurate in predicting the final outcome, I'd say it isn't too early to tell.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/epol...
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Dark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-06-08 12:41 AM
Response to Original message
4. Well fuck.
Still, she's better than the repubs' offerings.
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someone else Donating Member (34 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-06-08 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. I'm no Hillary fan.........
But it looks like it will be Hillary v McCain and McCain will lose big. Not just saying that because I don't like him. We will Have a Hillary Clinton presidency.
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junior college Donating Member (290 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-06-08 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Fabulous
Hillary "Lieberman" Clinton. How absolutely wonderful.
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Sen. Walter Sobchak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-06-08 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. just wait for the debates...
As Clinton and McCain fight over who will be tougher on Iran and who will further escalate the war in Iraq
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Matteon Donating Member (154 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-06-08 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. She's already...
...setting the stage to try and get those Fla and Mich delegates seated. There is nothing abnout her that I like. She represents 8 more years of the same shit under a different flag.
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Baby Snooks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-06-08 02:24 AM
Response to Reply #10
18. The dynasty continues...
I am sorry but I will not vote for her. She is just another Bill Clinton who was in the end just another Bush. A cheap substitute the "neo-cons" ran when George HW Bush lost the support of his own party and couldn't possibly have won a second term. Democrats who believe otherwise are as delusional as Republicans who believe the Bushes are honorable people. The neo-cons used Bill Clinton while they groomed George W Bush. And used George W Bush while they groomed Hillary Clinton. Their loyalty is to the Bushes but only in so far as the Bushes serve the agenda of their father and grandfather who set all of this in motion a long time ago.

All you need to do, really, is look at how the policies of Alan Greenspan in the end have brought this nation to what most believe is the beginning of economic collapse. Policies that Bill Clinton supported. We had such a wonderful economy under Bill Clinton. Or so we thought. And who did Alan Greenspan endorse? Hillary Clinton.

Al Gore knows the truth. Pamela Harriman wanted Al Gore to be the candidate in 1992. But a Democrat from Texas named Bob Strauss convinced her Bill Clinton was the better candidate. With Al Gore as his running mate. We would have 16 years of a Democrat in the White House. Didn't happen. Wasn't meant to happen. No one bothered to tell Pamela Harriman that while Bob Strauss was a Democrat from Texas he was also a good friend of George HW Bush.

Neo-cons. Republicrats. Oligarchists. Whatever you want to call them. Regardless of what you call them, they do not serve the interests of the American people. Regardless of which party they are using to control everything with. It's just as well. If Obama were to get the nomination they would probably kill him the way they killed the Kennedys. Which is probably why Al Gore didn't run. He knew if he won the nomination they would probably kill him. They probably killed Pamela Harriman when they decided to run George W Bush in 2000. She knew too much about the Bushes. Prescott Bush used the Harriman money to finance the Nazis.

Camelot just simply was a very brief moment. And then it was gone. Along with our democracy. It just took them another 40 years to destroy the Constitution.

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Kindigger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-06-08 03:05 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. n/t
:thumbsup:
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RBInMaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-06-08 05:43 AM
Response to Reply #18
23. Wrong! There are stark differences between her and the R's !
I'm with Obama right now, but if Hillary is the nominee she will have won it fair and square, and there sure as hell are stark differences between her and the R's. Elections are contests, and as the New England Patriots and their fans have found out, someone has to win and someone has to lose. I hope Obama can still pull it out and we'll see what happens, but if Hillary wins then we accept the verdict, respect it, and pull together as a party and help her win. Because what the hell is the alternative? 4 to 8 more years of R's in the White House? Unacceptable! Hillary's positions are MUCH more palatable to progressives on balance than ANY of the R's. So let's not be sore losers here if she wins. We MUST win the White House back, and this woman is one hell of a fighter. I'll give her that, and I love it. So please reconsider your sentiments on this and help the Dems win no matter who wins the nomination.

PS: If she wins it in the end, she may well pick Obama as VP. That would be cool !
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inMD Donating Member (44 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-06-08 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #18
34. Yes, more of the same
under Clinton we had the dot com buildup with buisinesses based on nothing....that collapsed
under Bush we had the real estate buildup with sub prime and predatory loans....that is collapsing now

neither forsaw a problem with these practices and just let this happen. I ask you, who are the losers and who are the winners?

under both we saw corporations, auditing firms and stock brokers lie and steal from ordinary investors for personal gain. I ask again, who are the losers and who are the winners?

both Hillary and Bush support Iraq. Hillary will not sign a pledge to have troops out within eight (8) years. WTF!!!! 8 YEARS!!!! Isn't this what we've been complaining about here for almost 7 years now!!!!

Either you want a change or you don't. I want a change!!!! Real change. Not a change of the name of the party in power if it only brings us the same policy and family we've already had. I want change of direction for the country....especially for the war.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-06-08 02:29 AM
Response to Reply #6
19. Well, look at it this way - if she does win, we'll be able to point out how NOTHING HAS CHANGED.
That's a near certainty with Hillary "I'll pick my own powers" Clinton.

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primavera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-06-08 07:46 AM
Response to Reply #6
28. I can see the bumperstickers now:
"Vote Hillary - she's not quite as awful as the alternative!" Now there's an inspiring claim to the country's highest office.
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-06-08 02:10 AM
Response to Reply #5
15. How so? Delegate count is tied with nearly half the country yet to vote.
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inMD Donating Member (44 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-06-08 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #5
30. Really????
yeah, maybe we can have 8 years of Hillary followed by 8 years of Jeb Bush.

Yippeeeee!!!!!

I, for one, am sick of our 2 family system.
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Pastiche423 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-06-08 01:36 AM
Response to Original message
11. I wonder how they can call it for anyone
w/so many counties having 0 results at this moment:

San Franciso
Santa Cruz
Alemeda
Humbolt
Del Norte
Tehama
Nevada
Yuba
Lake
Napa
Salano
Contra Costa
San Joaquin
Mona
Kings
San Barnardino
Kern

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-elexresults-cal...

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KarenRei Donating Member (5 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-06-08 02:06 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Running the numbers
Anyone notice how despite the fact that all of the candidates did absentee ballots before their choices dropped out are losing share as people's votes for current candidates dilute them, Hillary is also decreasing as a percent of the total vote? All of the rise is going to Obama. This suggests to me that absentees were strongly in favor of Hillary. Example:

16% reporting: Obama 33%, Clinton 55%
25% reporting: Obama 36%, Clinton 53%
30% reporting: Obama 37%, Clinton 53%
45% reporting: Obama 38%, Clinton 52%

Doesn't seem that Obama has enough momentum for him to overtake Clinton, though. But I wouldn't be surprised to see the final results be something like 41%-49%. And they should be pretty close in the county delegates, since, as a DailyKos analysis indicated, the 3-delegate and 5-delegate counties are more Obama-heavy, while the 4-delegate counties are more Clinton-heavy, and to get a 1-3 split in a 4-delegate country, you need a very hard to achieve 75% of the vote. In a 3 or 5 delegate county, you only need to get more than 50%.

My call? Clinton gets 198 delegates and Obama 172.
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Pastiche423 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-06-08 02:21 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. In what way did you answer my question?
All of the counties I listed in my previous post have yet to announce a single result.

Are you saying there were more ansentee ballots than people that voted today? How would anyone know how people who be voting?
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Smarmie Doofus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-06-08 04:51 AM
Response to Reply #11
21. Exit polls, I'd guess. nt
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muryan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-06-08 02:01 AM
Response to Original message
12. Even with hillary taking the big states
due to the system we have in place in our primaries, obama will still get a large number of delegates based on what congressional districts he wins. The last prediction i saw for overall delegates had hillary at essentially the same lead she had going into super tuesday, and obama ahead in early polls in the future primary states.
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-06-08 02:12 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. I thought Obama was leading in delegates going into Super Tuesday.
(I'm discounting the superdelegates, since -- I pray -- that they aren't used to overrule the choice of the people.)
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olddad56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-06-08 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
31. If it is Hilary vs. McBush, why bother voting?
both have the same corporate backers.
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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-06-08 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #31
35. Exactly the situation the corporations want to see...
and why the MSM pushed Edwards out of the race.
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ckramer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-06-08 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #31
36. I agree.
Clinton vs. McCain would the sameold vs. sameold.

The Clin-bush dynasty lives on!

And I will not go to the poll come November if it's the FemaleWarMonger vs. the MaleWarWonger.

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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-06-08 10:35 PM
Response to Original message
37. YES! Hoo HA!!!!!
Best news of the day!!!
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