Sick Cattle Used to Feed School Children

[RamboLiberal]

Source: ABC News

A hidden-camera investigation by an animal rights group has uncovered disturbing treatment of ailing cows at a California slaughterhouse that provides meat for school lunches.

The video, obtained during what the Humane Society of the United States said was a six-week undercover investigation, shows a sickly cow being dragged by a chain before being poked, prodded, rolled and lifted with a forklift. Workers also are seen hosing the faces of cows in a manner that HSUS described as "torture right out of a waterboarding manual."

An HSUS official said its investigator confirmed that at least some of the animals in the video were "spent dairy cows," allegedly sold for meat after they had grown too old and sick to produce milk, and that they were slaughtered for use in the human food supply.

HSUS says Westland Meat Company, which owns the slaughterhouse in Chino, Calif., is the No. 2 supplier of beef to a USDA program that "distributes the beef to needy families, the elderly and also to schools through the National School Lunch Program."

According to documents provided by HSUS, Westland was named a USDA "supplier of the year" for 2004-05. HSUS says the company "has delivered beef to schools in 36 states. More than 100,000 schools and childcare facilities nationwide receive meat through the lunch program."



Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=4218056&page=1

---

A hidden-camera investigation by the Humane Society of the United States found a California slaughterhouse used banned animals for meat destined for school lunch programs. (ABCNEWS.com)

Another product of Bush and Repuke America!

[GoddessOfGuinness]

1. Some of that meat was sold to schools in my state...

And I have a feeling the schools were in poorer areas...at least it wouldn't surprise me.
Poor cows. :-(

[UncleSepp]

4. I dunno, school cafeteria meat in even rich schools is nasty

I remember seeing a truck pull up to my high school, which was in an affluent area (me not included, heh). The boxes being loaded from the truck to the cafeteria were marked "Grade D - Edible".

On edit: Yes, I've seen the Snopes article. But dang it, I saw the boxes! :-)

[OKthatsIT]

25. 'Downed Cows' have been ignored

since the Clinton Administration. Do your research. Keywords: Pennsylvania, USDA inspector, schools, hamburger meat.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

31. What's your point?

[pipoman]

73. I frankly don't believe any of those animals ended up on anybodys plate

except maybe Fido's. The video only proves that some cattle which arrive at a packing plant are unable to stand up. No surprise, the truck was full of worn out dairy cattle. There is by law a USDA inspector on the kill floor and the cattle used for human consumption must be able to get to the kill floor on their own power. All I see in the video is inexcusable bad treatment (which must be punished) of cattle being moved to a not for human consumption holding area to be delivered to rendering plants or pet food companies...I don't like the treatment but pardon me for not believing this group's claim that these cattle fed kids...I simply don't believe it.

[pinniped]

2. This is where the hearts for Bart Simpson's school cafeteria came from.

.

[Heywood J]

47. "More testicles means more iron."

Who wants to bet the next thing that shows up will be mad cow from this type of thing?

[HowHasItComeToThis]

3. ANYTHING FOR A BUCK

:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:

[OKthatsIT]

24. Don't blame the inspectors...they send the complaints to the Feds

And the USDA DOES NOTHING!

[kestrel91316]

77. The inspectors are supervised by USDA veterinarians.

The actual antemortem inspection to verify that no downers go into the human food supply is performed by the veterinarian on site. They are not a continual presence at the entry point. IIRC, they inspect the day's livestock in the AM and give every animal a thumbs up or down. If they later collapse, they shouldn't be used, but that may be where the problem is occuring.

The system is dependent upon ethical inspectors and veterinarians, and frankly that scares me. They are human beings and a certain percentage are simply not going to do their jobs properly, for whatever reason.

BTW, I agree that video of cattle being mistreated is not proof that sick animals were fed to humans.

[alfredo]

5. Wonder how many had Mad Cow?

[newfie11]

7. HUUS

Personally I would take anything said by HUUS with a grain of salt. These are the same people who were taking money for Vick's dogs they supposedly had in their rescue. It turned out they do not have a rescue, did not have any of Vick's dogs , and the money was not given to any of the humane society's that had Vick's dogs.
READ ON:




Humane Society Of The United States: Under Investigation
Kate | Friday, April 21, 2006

This is not your grandmother’s “Humane Society”.

Those of us closely involved in dog sport have been long aware that the Humane Society of the United States is nothing more than an activist animal rights movement that has “appropriated” the identity of a long established and respected animal welfare organization. It is endlessly frustrating to hear their representatives quoted by media as though they were - often the same media that is finally alert and skeptical towards PETA.

According to Activistcash.com ” HSUS has accumulated $113 million in assets and built a recognizable brand by capitalizing on the confusion its very name provokes. This misdirection results in an irony of which most animal lovers are unaware: HSUS raises enough money to finance animal shelters in every single state, with money to spare, yet it doesn’t operate a single one anywhere.”

Like many groups of this kind, they have a habit of exploiting natural disasters to excite the donation stream. Hurricanes Katrina and Rita were no exception. Complaints from animal rescuers on the ground have been gathering for months, and now the Louisiana Attorney General has opened an investigation.

Attorney General Charles Foti Opens Inquiry into Humane Society of the United States

March 27, 2006: (Baton Rouge, LA)-Attorney General Charles C. Foti, Jr., announced today that his office has opened an inquiry into allegations involving funds raised for pet /owner reunions by the Humane Society of the United States (HSUS). The Attorney General’s Office is asking the HSUS for an accounting of all funds HSUS raised for the purpose of pet rescue and reunion with pet owners in the aftermath of Hurricanes Katrina and Rita.

<…>

The Attorney General is asking anyone with information about questionable fundraising activities by animal groups or any other groups to please contact the Attorney General’s Consumer Protection Section at 1-800-351-4889 or visit our website at www.ag.state.la.us.

If you want to support animal welfare causes, your safest bet is to donate to your local shelter.


http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/04/humane_society_of_the_united_states_under_investigation/

[alfredo]

10. That sucks.

[barb162]

21. The video clearly shows torture of defenseles animals

according to ABC.

[flvegan]

28. I'd personally affirm anything HSUS said without a grain of salt

and I don't need the Center for Consumer Freedom (activistcash.com) feeding me shit to sway my opinion.

What an absolute BULLSHIT BULLSHIT BULLSHIT fucking post. Sort of like taking Free Republic's take on Bush to be true.

You, nor CCF has any info on HSUS that's worth a shit, so don't spread it here and besmirch the good name of a great organization.

I'd also ask you to back that shit up about HSUS saying they had Vick's dogs and taking money for it.

I'll fucking wait right here for it.

[Tumbulu]

34. In my state the HSUS is helping to gather signatures for a ballot proposition

to make putting chickens in the tiny tiny cages illegal, and putting pregnant sows (pigs) and veal calves in tiny pens as well. I am pretty impressed with them as it is about time. It is the first step, but it is an important one. Torturing animals should be illegal period. They are a wonderful organization in my book.

[newfie11]

74. wise up!!!!!!!!!!!! HSUS stages their fights!!!!

HSUS Activists Reportedly Not Happy at Being Caught on Film
Advertise on Animalrights.net



HSUS Activists Reportedly Not Happy at Being Caught on Film

Pro-hunt filmmaker catches HSUS allowing a seal to suffer for an hour while they film fund-raising promotion. Full Article


By Brian Carnell
Monday, March 5, 2007
Pro-seal hunt filmmaker Raoul Jomphe claims that representatives with the Humane Society of the United States were displeased that the caught them on film ignoring the suffering of a seal that the animal rights activists were using as a prop for a fund raising video.

According to the Ottawa Citizen,


In the documentary . . . the animal rights activists pulled the dying seal out of the water as it tried to escape, and continued filming their promotional video. It is not known how the seal was wounded.


According to Jomphe and his documentary, the HSUS activists filmed for over an hour while the seal lay suffering.

Interviewed in Jomphe's film, HSUS activist Rebecca Aldworth says she only had the seal's well-being in mind,


I asked somebody to pull the seal out, because at that point I was thinking there might be a chance of getting the seal back to land. If this seal could still crawl, an hour later, could still swim, maybe there was a chance we could bring the seal back to the Atlantic Veterinary College and save the seal.


Jomphe said that based on the condition of the seal, he would have humanely killed it rather than allow it to continue to suffer.

Source:

Activists Angry at being caught on tape. The Ottawa Citizen, March 5, 2007.


© 1995-2005 Brian Carnell, All Rights Reserved Discussion forum posts © their author Syndicate

http://www.animalrights.net/archives/year/2007/000001.html

[newfie11]

75. Read the REAL TRUTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Humane Society of the United States
2100 L Street, NW, Washington, DC 20037
Phone [phone] | Fax [phone] | Email [email protected]



Despite the words “humane society” on its letterhead, the Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) is not affiliated with your local animal shelter. Despite the omnipresent dogs and cats in its fundraising materials, it’s not an organization that runs spay/neuter programs or takes in stray, neglected, and abused pets. And despite the common image of animal protection agencies as cash-strapped organizations dedicated to animal welfare, HSUS has become the wealthiest animal rights organization on earth.
HSUS is big, rich, and powerful, a “humane society” in name only. And while most local animal shelters are under-funded and unsung, HSUS has accumulated $113 million in assets and built a recognizable brand by capitalizing on the confusion its very name provokes. This misdirection results in an irony of which most animal lovers are unaware: HSUS raises enough money to finance animal shelters in every single state, with money to spare, yet it doesn’t operate a single one anywhere.

Instead, HSUS spends millions on programs that seek to economically cripple meat and dairy producers; eliminate the use of animals in biomedical research labs; phase out pet breeding, zoos, and circus animal acts; and demonize hunters as crazed lunatics. HSUS spends $2 million each year on travel expenses alone, just keeping its multi-national agenda going.

HSUS president Wayne Pacelle described some of his goals in 2004 for The Washington Post: “We will see the end of wild animals in circus acts … phasing out animals used in research. Hunting? I think you will see a steady decline in numbers.” More recently, in a June 2005 interview, Pacelle told Satya magazine that HSUS is working on “a guide to vegetarian eating, to really make the case for it.” A strict vegan himself, Pacelle added: “Reducing meat consumption can be a tremendous benefit to animals.”

Shortly after Pacelle joined HSUS in 1994, he told Animal People (an inside-the-movement watchdog newspaper) that his goal was to build “a National Rifle Association of the animal rights movement.” And now, as the organization’s leader, he’s in a position to back up his rhetoric with action. In 2005 Pacelle announced the formation of a new “Animal Protection Litigation Section” within HSUS, dedicated to “the process of researching, preparing, and prosecuting animal protection lawsuits in state and federal court.”


Copyright © 2008 Center for Consumer Freedom. All rights reserved.

http://www.activistcash.com/organization_overview.cfm/oid/136

EDITED TO COMPLY WITH DU'S COPYRIGHT POLICY.

[Omaha Steve]

76. HSUS provided materials and funds for my local group

I don't think a sealers view or film I haven't seen carries a lot of weight. I'm very active in trying to stop the Canadian Harp Seal hunt. HSUS paid for a bill board, bumper stickers, hand bills, a banner behind a plane, etc... This was at no cost to our small Omaha group. We held boycott Canadian seafood rallies at Red Lobster and several local eateries. We got national exposure at the College World Series on ESPN. Several newspapers picked up our local story. Our group will not be active this year. Our leader past away suddenly last fall. Many kids in Omaha used to run out to hug her in her seal outfit at parades and such. HSUS did plenty for us with $. Paul McCartney also did a new promo for HSUS against the seal hunt this week.



https://community.hsus.org/humane/notice-description.tcl?newsletter_id=18863535

Dear Friend,

Like me, you’ve probably seen the horrifying images of helpless baby seals being beaten and shot for their fur. Wounded seals left to suffer in agony. Conscious pups sliced open. And the reason for their pain? So that someone can sell their fur.

For so many years, we’ve tried to stop this senseless brutality. Today, you and I have a chance to stop this cruelty forever.

Twenty-five years ago, the European Union made history when it ended its trade in products from newborn harp seals. Commercial seal hunting in some countries came to a virtual standstill, and countless baby seals were saved. But the hunters began to kill the pups when they were slightly older -- and the products from those seals are legally traded in the EU. Today, some commercial seal hunts are twice as large as they were when the EU first took action.

But there is new hope for the seals. The EU is considering ending all seal product trade in the European Union, regardless of the age of the seals. This move would save millions of seals from brutal slaughter, and help put a final end to commercial seal hunting globally.

Right now, the EU is asking people around the world to submit their opinions on the historic proposal. Please take a few minutes today to tell the European Union you fully support a ban on seal product trade.

I’m lucky: I was able to visit a harp seal nursery in Canada’s Gulf of St. Lawrence before the hunters descended. The sight of mothers and their pups on the pristine ice is one I won’t forget, and I’ve committed myself to working to preserve that wondrous spectacle for generations to come.

Commercial seal hunting doesn’t simply cause unimaginable suffering to the seals; it is also dehumanizing and often dangerous work, contributing very little to the incomes of the hunters. A European Union ban on all seal product trade would force nations where seal huting has taken place to invest in real alternatives -- jobs that will provide safe and sustainable futures.

Lets work together to make a better life for seals and people. Say no to the cruel trade in seal products in the European Union. It doesn’t matter where you live -- your voice counts. Please take action to save the seals today.

The deadline for the European Union to hear your views is February 13.

Sincerely,



Paul McCartney

[Tumbulu]

79. Do you think torturing animals is OK?

Do you think that eating meat from sick animals is good for anyone?

This is what the OP is about. Please stick to the subject.

[pipoman]

81. And I believe that the op headline and film is a complete deception

The film doesn't even come close to proving that these cattle ended up in the food chain. On the contrary, the film was all outside the processing facility. There is no doubt when worn out dairy and breeding cattle are brought into these processing plants via semi trucks there will be some animals lost, it is a fact. It is also a fact that for the last decade every processor regardless the size must have a USDA inspector on site at the time of the slaughter of the animals. The animals must be able to walk into the facility under their own power. Those that cannot are sold to rendering plants or pet food companies and are never brought into the facility. Now the mistreatment of these animals is inexcusable and should be punished but without proof that these animals were actually butchered at this facility I don't believe the claims made by this group of zealots who absolutely would lie to accomplish their stupid cause.

[Tumbulu]

83. wrong wing rhetoric

"accomplish their stupid cause" What is their stupid cause? Show people the horrid reality of industrial agriculture? People do need to know about these things and it should not be allowed.

[pipoman]

84. To discredit the meat industry

The story is baseless and not proven. It depends on the majority of the public being ignorant regarding meat production. The organization who filmed this knows these animals didn't go into food production, that is why they waited 6 months to release the video. What should be done with dairy cattle which are too old to produce? Should they be killed and buried even as we have hungry people and there is nothing wrong with most of the animals from a food production standpoint? I have my own issues with corporate farming but this is simply militant animal rights propaganda picked up by the msm. Again, the abuse of the animals should be punished, there is absolutely not one bit of proof that these cattle entered the food chain. Further re read the article and it is never actually claimed that they did, only that the film was taken at a packing facility...you've been duped.

[LeftyMom]

82. Dude, did you just quote the Center for Consumer Freedom?

Look up your sources better. That's just ignorant.

[The Backlash Cometh]

6. If this is happening in California, you know it has to be a bigger

problem nationwide.

So, why haven't the Dems in Congress allowed the conscientious beef ranchers to check their own cattle for mad cow?

[OnionPatch]

16. Have the Dems been against that?

I thought it was the Department of Agriculture that wouldn't allow private testing. Would the head of the USDA be a Bush appointee? I'm not sure. :shrug: But I'm definitely writing to congress about it. They could do something.

[The Backlash Cometh]

20. Congress could make an issue out of it, if they wanted to.

It's the kind of issue that gets the attention of the public.

[Hekate]

26. A friend was a career civil servant in Dept of Ag in DC. I asked her if her agency was "FEMA'd"....

She said it had. She doesn't eat beef any more.

The Dept of Agriculture, like all the other civil service agencies in Washington, has been hollowed out and put in the care of Bush appointees.

Need I say more?

Hekate

[kestrel91316]

78. USDA is currently a tool of Bush and his food industry buddies.

Head of USDA is currently: Ed Schafer, Ag Secretary

Former governor of ND. Bush buddy, I'm sure. Nominated Oct 2007, just confirmed a couple of days ago.

[pipoman]

70. Who has said anything about mad cow?

Edit: you do realize that the number of cases found in the US in the last 5 years could be counted on 2 fingers iirc.

[Tumbulu]

85. That's because no one is allowed to test them.

Companies that attempt to test each animal are stopped by the USDA from doing so.

If every animal was tested, the results may be quite different. If there was nothing to hide, why would they prevent independent businesses from assuring their customers.

[LaurenG]

8. Upton Sinclair "The Jungle"

that's all I could think of when I read this post.

[1monster]

9. I've been packing my son's school lunch for years... And I take my lunch to school

too. I've seen what is served to the kids. The only thing that looks good to me are the salads. They cost extra.

Most of the kids who buy school lunches bypass the regular meal anyway and eat pizza, chicken nuggets, and or french fries every day.

On the other hand, I saw a kid eating dry ramen in the lunch room a couple of weeks ago... ewww!

(on edit: changed a verb. I think * has had a very bad effect on my grammar and I don't even listen to him if I can help it!)

[Lydia Leftcoast]

11. That's why I buy only pasture-raised meat from local farmers,

available at my food co-op.

[OnionPatch]

17. Me too.

And I've never allowed my daughter to eat the beef in the cafeteria at school. In fact, I had the nutrition department add symbols to the menus to show when a food item was made with beef. After this, though, I'm doubting that she should eat *anything* there!

Edited to add: This particular meat packer is only about 50 miles from us! And my daughter goes to public school.

[beezlebum]

12. horrifying

but not exactly shocking. i've always worried about the crap in school lunch. this does take that concern to a new level. my 5 year old saw this while flipping to spongebob- she swore to never eat hamburgers again again. i was trying to introduce vegetarianism anyway.

really disgusting, and i'm sure widespread, unfortunately (this is not the first clip i've seen like this...). :puke: :cry: :cry:

[toadzilla]

13. part of the reason why im a vegetarian!

I don't trust the stuff.

[FlyingSquirrel]

19. Amen to that.

I do eat seafood though. Even though I know toxins build up in fish. Guess I'm just not all the way there. I eat eggs and dairy too.

[Peregrine Took]

14. California? And to think under Democratic leadership this used to be the

most progressive state in the union. How putrid.

[Tumbulu]

15. Industrial agriculture = torture

If you eat any conventional meat/milk/or eggs the animal has been tortured. During its entire life. Not just in death. Pure and simple. This is why the meat/milk/eggs are so cheap. And these products are full of hormones you should not be exposed to either.

Organic, grass fed, direct from the farmer, etc are the only way to get animal products from animals not tortured their entire lives.

It should be illegal to torture animals in this way. But until the laws make it illegal the best I can suggest is to support the farmers and businesses that do not torture, or become a vegan.

[MadMaddie]

18. Soylent Green anyone?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070723/plotsummary


In all seriousness..this is the tip of the iceberg...

[ileus]

22. My jaw dropped when I seen that on this evening.

[DissedByBush]

23. The Bush administration reaction

We must make such videos illegal.

It's a liberal conspiracy.

And of course,

This enables the terrorists.

[FirstLight]

27. EEEEEeeeek! gross!

You know, I am a meat snob... I buy at the grocery outlet and get deals on organic food as much as I can...but meat, I will save up for and buy only from Organic Local Farms. Its gross enough being a omnivore, but not knowing where the meat comes from is disturbing.:scared:

now here's what really sucks...we are on the "free lunch program" my kids have free lunch. BUT I often encourage them to choose the vegan alternative or just pack their lunch when the menu looks too gross or questionable. I will never trust school cafeteria egg salad or tuna fish! lol :puke:

[flvegan]

29. Great free advice: don't eat meat.

Easy.

You're welcome.

[ElboRuum]

32. I figured if I'd waited long enough...

...it'd come to this. Vegan pile on.

:popcorn:

Better idea: protect the food supply from this sort of shenanigans.

[yewberry]

33. One guy isn't a "pile on."

Unless you've got the persecuted majority thing going, then yeah, I guess one guy might be.

[ElboRuum]

35. He's not the only one.

I've always loved the "more veggie than thou" threads.

[flvegan]

38. C'mon love...you called us out

now back it up.

Gawd but I HATE asking twice.

[ElboRuum]

48. At the risk of you having to... GASP... go out of your way...

And ask a third time...

Ah, the ongoing rationalization for what is ostensibly just fear of one's own mortality.

Goes something like "you must be stupid to harm yourself like that."
Then sprinkle on a little "you are a victim of the meat industry."
Then drizzle on a nice amount of "the world would be a much healthier place if we'd all just not eat meat."
But, I like how it was served up here with just a hint of "will someone please think about the children!!!"

Of course, I do enjoy the veiled jibes to being a mindlessly obeisant consumer. I doubt it has crossed your mind that well, um... maybe..., I... just... well... like meat's flavor? :hide: No, clearly it can't be THAT simple. As far as the inherent "stupidity" in harming oneself, putting oneself in the path of the bus so to speak, I'll bet you'll get a serious thrill to know I smoke too...

:smoke: :wow:

We're all going to die, but I'd rather not have my last meal be a tofuburger. Is that quite alright with you?

P.S. No one really has rebutted my idea of protecting the food supply from this and other hygienic shortfalls. But hey, I hear they're putting E-Coli on spinach these days, so clearly, being a veggie still isn't going to protect you from foodborne illness.

Anyway, I'm sure you have a swift and cutting rebuttal to this post, and I await with baited breath... oh, wait, that's just the onions from the cheesesteak I had for lunch.

[flvegan]

37. What vegan pile on?

I don't see it.

Better idea: educate yourself on nutrition.

[ElboRuum]

49. Better Idea...

Open your eyes... Or at least take the blinders off.

I have educated myself on nutrition, yes there is something to be said for the nutritional value of a meat-free diet. And you know what? I want no truck with it. The risks are acceptable in my view and meat's just so damn tasty.

I sense... bewilderment. O_o

[LeftyMom]

39. Dude, you wish.

DU vegans are teh hawt.

But whatever. Consume. Obey.

[flvegan]

40. Yeah, but stupid can be fun.

[LeftyMom]

41. Yeah, but not where kids' health is at risk.

That's not cool, even if my kid isn't involved. I mean, if it's an issue where kids are at risk, shouldn't that be the first priority and not this Oh noes! Teh vegans are oppressing me! crap?

[flvegan]

42. Hmmm...this raises the "nutrition card"

in that the vast majority of folks know what gas to put in the car but know slightly less than shit about what to put in the ole body.

[LeftyMom]

43. And we all know kids would suffer health problems without meat.

Oh wait...



nevermind.

[ElboRuum]

52. Because without meat...

The only thing left is apples and oranges and greens and...

Oh wait, hold up, do they still sell Snicker's bars, Cheetos, and 20oz Pepsi products? They do?

[LeftyMom]

54. Who feeds their kids that shit? Certainly not me.

:shrug:

[ElboRuum]

56. Are your kids with you all day?

Furthermore, does your children's school have vending machines?

Kids feed themselves shit.

[yewberry]

63. You know what?

You are the one who thought it'd be fun to snark at vegans who were commenting on the content of the story. You didn't bother to address the topic at hand other than by dismissing others' points of view. And you still don't acknowledge that there's more here than just danger to the 'food' supply--those animals were tortured solely in the name of greed. Maybe that's just not an issue for you, I don't know.

However, now you are questioning the parenting of someone you don't know, and as far as I'm concerned, that's completely out of line. You don't know LeftyMom, and you don't know her kid. Clearly you're unaware that her son is a small child, and isn't really of an age when he can sashay up to the old 7-11 and pick up some Doritos and Coke.

He's a little kid, dude. Don't make assumptions about someone else's kids. That's shitty.

[ElboRuum]

66. You know what?

You mischaracterize the whole thing.

I was snarking on the idea how anytime anything like this is uncovered, it is predictable how vegans take this as yet another opportunity to wag their fingers as if the food supply cannot be protected because carnivory is a sin, and God will punish. While I respect a person's individual decision on how they live their lives from whatever respect they choose, and that includes the nutritional, someone always "breaks the seal", then come the "oh, I stopped eating meat three years ago" posts as if this is some sort of recovery program.

Now, I find humor in that. If it's not particularly politically correct to do so, well, I guess I must be a bad person. If that's what you think of me, so be it.

I know no one on this board personally. But if you're going to speak here, you'd better be prepared to take a little heat for what you say. My knowledge of other people here is entirely limited to what they say, and their knowledge of me is similarly limited. Now you can criticize me for whatever it is you wish, but bear this in mind. If she's going to speak openly of her parenting, she's opening herself up to comment, and not all of it can be expected to be positive. But even THIS is not the issue, since I wasn't negatively questioning her parenting, I was postulating the possibility that children do of their own accord out of sight range of their parents.

He's a little kid, true. Now think of life from the eye level of a little kid. That's what I was doing.

If that's "shitty", so be it.

[LeftyMom]

64. We homeschool, and there's no vending machine anywhere in our house.

And my kid has pretty healthy (and self-regulated) eating habits. He's never in his life eaten a cheeto and he's very rarely had a soda because he was never socialized to believe that those are normal parts of a person's diet.

At times I let him push the cart through the grocery store and pick out what he wants, and he lovingly picks out produce, grabs some nice healthy bread, some potatoes, a tub of earth balance (a healthy butter substitute,) maybe some peanutbutter, a box of soy chick'n patties, some soy milk, juice, etc. Occasionally he might grab a bag of kettle chips or a packet of fruit leather or something as a treat, but he wasn't raised with very sweet foods or a lot of junk, and he doesn't take them when they are offered. He does have a fondness for french fries. :shrug:

Kids feed themselves what we teach them to eat.

[ElboRuum]

68. Actually, no.

Well, maybe, in a hermetically controlled environment.

Just so you know, children prefer fatty and salty foods much more regularly over sweet things, contrary to popular lore. Might explain the whole french fries issue.

See, your situation is different than that of the vast majority of parents. You can control your child's environment as much or as little as you see fit. I have my own issues with that sort of control, but you are the parent, this is your child, and you will do as you see fit to raise him how you want him to be raised.

Now, step outside of your bubble and see the larger world.

Not everyone can homeschool their children. Not everyone would WANT to, even if they did have the means. Most parents are willing to accept the inevitability of their kids one day stepping off the school bus all of a sudden with the knowledge of every swear word known to mankind. Most parents are willing to accept the fact that their kids are going to skin some knees and break a bone or two in gym class. We all haven't gone off the grid. We all haven't unplugged and tuned out. And, shockingly, most people don't want to. Where you see evil machination, all they see is the failing machine. You see the hand of man tampering evilly with nature, inflicting cruelty as it goes. They see a harmful act of profiteering that needs correction. You see it as a vindication of your lifestyle. They see it as a broken device requiring fixing and control. Who's right? You? Them? Neither? Both?

It's not that they're stupid, or immoral, or barbaric. It is their world, the one they recognize and have come to enjoy, and they've come to accept it for better or worse. That you may have wretched against it where they embraced it only indicates your dissatisfaction and willingness to act upon it. It says nothing about morality, intelligence, or compassion. If it says anything relative or comparative, the only thing that can be said is that your values differ. Any adjectivals or adverbials past that point would be unwarranted embellishment.

That said, all through this there has been this veiled intimation, and correct me if I a misperceiving, as I tend to read both the lines and that which lies between. Is your silence on my contention that my better idea to the original easy answer an indication that it is in some way unpalatable, simply because it condones a lifestyle choice you don't agree with? What is the problem with protecting people, veggie or otherwise, from malfeasance involving the food supply in whatever form it takes? Do incidents like these, though tragic and sad, serve a political purpose?

Don't misperceive this as an attack. It is a serious question.

[ElboRuum]

51. I guess...

But as yet, no one's addressed the issue of protecting the food supply a large, no, that would be like... OMG... "condoning" meat consumption.

Have we so quickly forgotten about the spinach? You know, with the E-Coli?

This is a very large problem, and it probably goes on quite a lot more than just this one place at this one time, and not just with livestock, but with all large-scale farming. One should not have to buy organically grown produce or organically raised livestock or shop at a co-op (which not everyone has in their communities) to be assured that what one purchases is safe to eat.

But I guess it's just easier to use this incident as a soapbox than actually dealing with the problem as it stands.

[LeftyMom]

53. The ecoli came from cow shit from a neighboring farm.

e coli is an intestinal virus. Plants do not have intestines.

[ElboRuum]

55. Yes, but they do need occasional fertilization...

Cow manure is used quite extensively for this.

[LeftyMom]

65. Manure used for fertilization on organic fields is supposed to be composted first,

raised to a certain temperature to kill off bacteria, and used only at certain points in the growing cycle where it's not a risk to the finished product.

This wasn't fertilization. This was a leak from a manure lagoon at a neighboring cattle operation, which led to contamination.

In any case, the risk of foodborne illness is many times lower with plant foods, with the risk of those foods generally coming from cross-contamination in the home by improperly handled foods of animal origin. The only plant food I can think of that's a fairly high food poisoning risk on it's own is sprouts, because they aren't generally cooked before eating.

[ElboRuum]

69. Right...

See other subthread, I hate bifurcated conversation.

Other subject gets to the crux of the matter.

Edited to add: Post #68

[ElboRuum]

59. P.S.

Not that I'm keeping score here, but it strikes me that the idea of protecting the entire food supply from hygienic malfeasance of this sort still has, as yet, to be addressed.

Of course, the silence is deafening.

I don't think that this is a particularly revolutionary idea, but since, due to the sheer number of people in the world right now needing to be fed, "factory" farming is going to be with us for the foreseeable future. I'm afraid, if McDonald's last quarter earnings are any indicator, meat's going to be with us for a long time to come as well.

[Tumbulu]

80. OK, here's the deal, how do you fix a broken system?

By all means, please do your part to fix the system. But in the meantime everyone has to take it upon themselves to be their own personal and family's food police.

I know a man who retired from working at a slaughterhouse for 45 years. He said that by the end over 80% of the livers of the cattle had cancer and those livers had to be thrown away. Cancer- the meat was all sold as USDA whatever. The meat is still allowed to be sold.

Why would anyone ever eat conventional meat? Why. How does anyone not know all about these horror stories? If you can't afford organic meat, be a vegetarian, a vegan, whatever. Just don't eat it and don't let anyone you know or love eat it. This did not happen yesterday, It has been going on a long time.

Read The Omnivore's Dilemma, it's a good read and informative.

All the people that I know who have tried to change the system gave up and become organic producers themselves.

And yes, all organic certifiers make you show how any manure used on your farm has been composted. Raw manure is only allowed on conventional farms, not organic ones.

And the strain of e-coli that caused all the trouble is primarily found in feedlot animals- those that have been given antibiotics in their feed.

[ElboRuum]

50. Stupidity tastes good too. Especially with a light char...

[judaspriestess]

30. Why must humans be so fucking cruel

:cry: :cry: :cry:

[NashVegas]

58. Because It's More Expedient, At Times

The deal with getting hosed down?

I've seen it written that a large part of e. coli contamination comes from hides.






Sometimes the world makes me weep.

[dysfunctional press]

36. that subject line is a very mean thing to say about the lunch-ladies...

and as a result, i refuse to read the rest of your post.

[khaos]

44. eating meat is insane..

this only one of the many reasons why

[ElboRuum]

57. And it's good to see that hyperbole is alive and well...

Welcome!

:toast:

[khaos]

60. the statement was meant to be taken literally..

hyperbole.. lol

[ElboRuum]

61. Yes it was.

But unfortunately, hyperbole is in the eye of the observer. lol.

[Roland99]

45. OMG!! Well, that's one reason I stopped eating beef about 3 months ago.

Unbelievably sad. :evilfrown:

[freedomnorth]

46. It seems that people doing this are somwhat sick too. nt.

[Savannah_H]

62. The Children

nobody seems to care about the kids anymore....
they poison them with personal care products (shampoos), with toys, with diapers; hey why not poison their food...

[underpants]

67. Hmm autism wonder what could be causing that...

[pipoman]

71. USDA requires an inspector be onsite

anytime slaughter is going on. Even at the small extremely clean well maintained processor I use whose floors I would et my lunch off of has a USDA inspector on site who sees every animal killed. This video begs the question were these animals used in food production, I'm not convinced. These slaughter houses get in truck loads of worn out dairy and breeder cattle for use mostly as cheap hamburger. The USDA requires that the cattle can get onto the kill floor on their own power. This hasn't always been the case, in fact it has only been the case for the last decade or so. When these cattle are unloaded there are some which didn't transport and are unable to get up. Those cattle are moved to a 'not for human consumption' area and sold to rendering plants or pet food companies. There is no evidence in this video (as disturbing as the video is) that these cattle entered the food chain, none, and I doubt that they did...in fact I would bet that they didn't. That said there is really no excuse for the mistreatment of these animals shown and for that there should be hell to pay.

I just took my dog out and snapped this picture of my beef supply.



If you are in an area where you don't have a good source for high quality, source verified mets I would highly recommend Krehbiel's meats. This is the only processor we use and th only one we will buy meat off of their shelf with confidence it is high quality processed in a spotless facility. Don't see what you want call them up. I am in no way affiliated with Krehbiels, I just completely trust their products from having been to and through their facility many times.

http://healthymeats.net/store/

[Blue_Tires]

72. ttt