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KeepItReal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:23 AM
Original message
Airliner crash lands at Heathrow
Source: BBC



An international passenger plane has crash landed short of the runway at Heathrow Airport.

Passengers escaped down the emergency chutes after British Airways flight BA38 from Beijing came down.

Six ambulances were sent to the scene and three people were treated at the scene for minor injuries.

Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/71940...



Hope everyone's OK.

Looks like it's a Boeing 777.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
1. yeah, they say it's just 4 people with minor injuries
But it'll cause a lot of trouble for the airport - the plane landed on the grass, the undercarriage snapped off, and it slid to the end of the runway. So they now have a large plane stuck at the end of one of the 2 runways, with no wheels. They're diverting some planes to Luton and Stansted (about 20 and 50 miles away).
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Stuart G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
2. MIRACLE?????????????????
Every once in a while something like this happens. Airplane crashes. No one hurt bad. I recall a few years ago, maybe more, a Korean plane caught on fire, was it landing? take off, ........anyway... all , and I repeat...ALL!!!!!!!! escaped safely..
.then the plane blew up. Someone caught it on tape..for the world to see..The plane blows up..

Why?..I don't know. ...Why not?......Stuart G.
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. That crazy nutty God...what a cut-up!
He takes a giant plane loaded with people and slams it into the ground nearly killing everyone, certainly scaring them close to death at least...then decides to let 'em all slide out onto the tarmac. "IT'S A MIRACLE!" Hmmm. That God guy sure finds interesting things to do with his spare time. Shouldn't he be smiting the war mongers or something productive. I bet his grade school report cards used to say "God is not living up to his potential."

.
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Mz Pip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #7
13. Inappropriate use of spare time
Lack of focus on task at hand.

Leadership potential but wastes it on trivial matters.

Mz Pip
:dem:
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JBoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. Maybe he has ADHD
God should be eating these for breakfast:

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Stuart G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #16
26. Perhaps God does have ADHD
Edited on Thu Jan-17-08 09:40 PM by Stuart G
I don't know, but after looking at the pictures...well???????????? some people have a reason to be a little more religious after today........
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redwitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #7
40. God is an underachiever.
Clearly.
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #7
53. Religion is Bullshit
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sakabatou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
19. Occam's Razor PWNS you
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Lisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
28. there was an Air France plane that crashed in Toronto back in '05

Luckily there were only minor injuries. The fire was pretty spectacular though.

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/08/02/toront...
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. But that was weather-related. This one apparently not. n/t
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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
3. Wind shear?
I'll be interested to hear more about the cause of this.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. The BBC had an expert who said they thought that unlikely
Weather conditions were good, and southern England is a fairly stable place for weather.
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. Them pilots were getting a BJ...thats the only expla coming too me mind
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #3
21. Sudden total loss of power.
I'd say that was a very good pilot indeed.
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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. Wow, pilot did a great job in that case.
So much for redundant systems, eh?
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #3
24. Avionics systems failure?
Edited on Thu Jan-17-08 09:06 PM by Ghost Dog
Design

Boeing employed advanced technologies in the 777. These features included:

* Honeywell LCD glass cockpit flight displays
* Fully digital fly-by-wire flight controls with emergency manual reversion
* Fully software-configurable avionics
* Electronic flight bag
* Lighter design including use of composites (12% by weight)<22>
* Fiber optic avionics network

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_777

ed. cf. discussion on Boeing 787 development (problems?) here: http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/01/hacking_t...
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 04:53 AM
Response to Reply #24
32. This relates to "sudden power loss" due to "electrical failure" to engines:
Edited on Fri Jan-18-08 04:57 AM by Ghost Dog
Last year, on take-off.

http://blog.flightstory.net/131/emergency-landing-at-la... /

(This event was much hairier than it sounds from the linked description, from the local reports I heard: I live usually on the next island - Fuerteventura. The pilot in this case did a SUPERB job, having only just enough altitude to make the turn over surrounding buildings and reach the runway).
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #32
35. When machines can only be controlled via other machines...
Is that good when hundreds oflives are at stake?
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Twillig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #24
45. Electronic flight bag? What's that?
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #45
48. Wikipedia is your friend:
Electronic Flight Bag (EFB) is an electronic information management device that helps flight crews perform flight management tasks more easily and efficiently with less paper. It is a general purpose computing platform intended to reduce, or replace, paper-based reference material often found in the Pilot's carry-on Flight Bag, including the Aircraft Operating Manual, Aircrew Operating Manual, and Navigational Charts (including moving map for air and ground operations). In addition, the EFB can host purpose-built software applications to automate other functions normally conducted by hand, such as performance take-off calculations.

/... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_flight_bag
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conspirator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
5. I still feel safer on a plane than a car n/t
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jannyk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
6. Dear god, have you seen the pictures?...
this should link to them: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_pictures/7194201.stm
- if not use the main story page from the Op and there's a link on the sidebar. It's amazing that no-one was seriously injured. It missed the Freeway (A4) by a few feet. Sounds like Pilot error - he just touched down a little too soon.
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panzerfaust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #6
36. "Sounds like Pilot error" ... BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS ...

BullShit: If you don't get the point I am trying to make.

At the moment it is not known by anyone not investigating or directly involved what actually happened.

What is being reported is that it LOOKS LIKE what happened is that BOTH ENGINES QUIT at low altitude ...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/transport/Story/0,,2242405,00...

It is possible that this was due to the pilot(s) shutting the engines down in flight, but pretty damned unlikely.

He did not "...just touch<ed> down a little too soon", but apparently was able to maneuver to land inside the airport perimeter (rather than the surrounding houses) after loss of power at low altitude - this was an astonishing feat of airmanship.
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FloridaJudy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
9. This happened to a friend of mine
He was in a plane that crashed on landing (mechanical failure: the landing gear didn't deploy). The plane skidded all over a foamed runway and split nearly in in half - he said he could see daylight through the cabin walls. Everyone on board survived, and only a few passengers had minor injuries.

I also remember a Japanese passenger plane that did a belly flop into San Francisco Bay when I was a kid. No deaths, and very few injuries. This probably happens from time to time.
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rsmith6621 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
10. This Is The First 777 that will.....


.....after inspection become TOAST.....this has brought an end to the longest streak of safe flights for this fleet of proud BIRDS called the Boeing 777...

This airframe is a complete write off...
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RexDart Donating Member (106 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. Looking at the left side photo...
I'd have to agree. Looks like the main gear punched up through the wing.
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Lisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #10
27. "an end to the longest streak of safe flights" -- could have been far worse ...
The plane held together and people were able to walk away from the crash -- no serious injuries or fatalities -- so at least some of the safety features must have worked!
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
11. BA's safety record is still pretty stellar.
I feel safer on them than any other airline.
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panzerfaust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #11
38. Speedball is running on luck
Edited on Fri Jan-18-08 09:51 AM by panzerfaust

You might recall a BA crew's recent decision to head out from LAX with 3 out of 4 engines on a 747. They ALMOST made it to London

http://www.aaib.dft.gov.uk/publications/bulletins/june_...

They are not bound by US FARs, which would have prohibited the flight. The speculation at the time was that the crew continued, after talking to BA OPS, because of new (at the time) UK regulations relating to reimbursement of passengers because of flight delays.

In spite of the UK's investigatory whitewash, with a moment of thought it is pretty clear that it was a foolish choice, which ended with a low fuel emergency divert, and could have ended with the plane down in the North Atlantic.

It was better when they were "Speedbird"


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sir pball Donating Member (425 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #38
47. They're still Speedbird AFAIK
"Speedbird" continues to be used by British Airways as a call sign to the present day, though many domestic services use the call sign "Shuttle". BA subsidiary company BA Connect used British as its call sign before the sale to Flybe, and BA franchise operators continue to use their own call signs, despite operating BA flights.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speedbird
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #38
49. Interesting. Software involved:
The investigation determined that the engine surge had been due to excessive wear to the high-pressure compressor casing and, with the standard of fuel controller software installed, this resulted in turbine over-temperature damage.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
12. Where is the safest place to sit on a plane?
I thought right behind the wing, but perhaps a bit further back? or forward? Thoughts? Thankyou
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panzerfaust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #12
39. Left Front Seat


Beyond any question.

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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 01:46 AM
Response to Reply #39
54. As in pilot? Or left side, front of wing? Thanks.
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Jennifer C Donating Member (760 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
14. Passengers on board the flight say:
Paul Venter, who was on board flight BA38, said the aircraft hit trouble just as it was about to land.

We had a good flight, we came in to land, I could hear the undercarriage come out and the next moment the plane just dropped, he said.

The wheels came out and went for touchdown, and the next moment we just dropped. I couldnt tell you how far.

When everything came to a standstill, I looked out of the window and the undercarriage was gone and the plane was on its belly.

I didnt speak to the pilot, but I saw him, and he looked very pale, but there was no communication in the cabin."

Jerome Ensink, a passenger who was evacuated from the plane, said: "I'm beginning to realise we have had a close call. I'm a bit shaken, but feeling quite lucky. There seems to have been no major injuries.

"Everything seemed like a normal landing, until we hit the tarmac very roughly, but it wasn't until we were coming off the grass, that we realised the entire undercarriage was missing. We landed on the grass about 100 ft from the runway.

"The oxygen mask were coming down and the neon lights came up."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article3204607...

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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #14
22. Wow. I Wonder If They All Got Their Luggage Back?
../
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caligirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #22
30. They were'nt getting it all back anyway, its British Airways remember.
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Parche Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
17. 777
The pilot said they lost electrical right before touchdown

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panzerfaust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #17
42. NO. Pilot quoted as saying they lost ENGINE power on both.

Engine power. Thrust. The force, along with money, which ultimately allows an aircraft to go fast enough for the wings to develop lift and keep the whole thing in the air.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #42
46. The quote from the pilot wasn't direct
He hasn't publicly said what happened, yet (his statement). The 'lost power' may not apply to the engines themselves, because at least one passenger thinks they were still working:

"He said: "We were coming in to land but the plane felt like it should have been taking off. The engines were roaring and then we landed and it was just banging."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7195298.stm


In fact, my radio has just said the official statement is "the 2 engines did not respond to a request for increased thrust, about 2 miles out". I'll get a link for that when I can.
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #46
51. Smells even more like software, then,
I'm guessing (retired analyst/programmer here).
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BooScout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
18. Most of the passengers didn't even.....
....realize they crashed. they just thought it was a rough landing. A couple said they figured out they crashed when the oxygen masks came down.

The reason I always fly BA is because the drinks are still free on international flights. :toast: .....and their customer service is a hell of a lot better than Delta.
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izquierdista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Every international flight has free drinks
I might have to qualify that statement. I don't suppose that Saudi Arabian Airways gives away alcohol on their flights (religious prohibitions and all), and then there are the skin-flint United States based air carriers (why give away something when it is another opportunity to collect revenue). But it is the custom in most of the civilized world that if you want an alcoholic beverage on a flight, it is the same price as a non-alcoholic one -- free. :beer:
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jannyk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Yep, flew KlM, Lufthanser and AF in the past few months,...
bargain basements seats on all and still all the alchoholic beverages are free. They even come round with brandy etc after dinner. Oh yeah, for those that don't remember what dinner is...it's like stale mini-pretzels but better!
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BooScout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #20
58. Oh no they don't
Edited on Sat Jan-19-08 04:24 PM by BooScout
Delta doesn't do free drinks on international flights. US airlines quit with the free drinks a few years ago. I used to fly Delta between Atlanta and the UK and switched over to BA ......better service, better food and free drinks.b
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fshrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 11:56 PM
Response to Original message
31. Darn good pilot!
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patch1234 Donating Member (109 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 07:02 AM
Response to Reply #31
60. what did he do, beyond just riding the thing as long ...
and as far as he could?
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 05:23 AM
Response to Original message
33. That pilot deserves a medal
I just saw the news coverage on this and they still don't know what happened - only that it happened all of a sudden. How that pilot got the plane down with no power is amazing.
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 08:11 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. Do notice last year's Boeing/MD power loss incident
(on take-off) referred to in #32 above.

And one more rec would lift this thread up to 'Greatest' visibility.
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #34
41. Kick and rec (eom)
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ckramer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #33
57. Agree
He is a hero.
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Yuugal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
37. 777 is a battle wagon
Doesn't surprise me a bit that it didn't break up. If I ever have to be on a plane that gets a case of ground sickness I hope its a 777.
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #37
43. Me, too. I love 777's.
n/t
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Corgigal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
44. When myself and my loved ones fly
that is the pilot I want in charge of the plane. I read the article below and British Airways are given the whole crew all the time they need. They don't want the pilots back until they feel comfortable to fly again. Smart.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7195582.stm
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951-Riverside Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 07:08 PM
Response to Original message
50. You know what that means....
They have to put cameras in homes to prevent this from happening again. :)
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 08:31 PM
Response to Original message
52. I hate when the MSM uses the word "Crash"
when the plane didn't.

When I was a pilot we called it landing short.

From the accounts I've read the pilot was the hero -- bringing in a dead 777 safely!
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 06:50 AM
Response to Reply #52
55. When the plane is a write-off, undercarriage torn off on impact,
I think 'crash' is appropriate. Yes, the pilot (co-pilot in this case - good of the captain to get that out in public) did a great job.
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KDLarsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 07:57 AM
Response to Reply #55
61. Depends..
It might be a PR decision to fix the plane after all, just so BA can say they've never had a hull loss with the particular type. QANTAS did the exact same thing, after one of their 747's overran the runway in Bangkok a few years ago. The 747 was basically a write-off, but QANTAS lives high on their safety reputation (they've never lost a jet aircraft), so the decision was made to fix the plane anyway.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 07:56 AM
Response to Original message
56. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
IndyBob Donating Member (216 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
59. I enjoy flying
and always get a window seat if available. I never understood why folks roll thier eyes when I actually listen to the preflight instructions, read the pamphlet, look around for the nearest exit, and actually count the number of seats between me and that exit. You just never know.

Perhaps it is a little early to guess at how the accident occurred. There have been cases where a pilot backs too far off on power, it does take a while (5 - 10 seconds or so) for jet engines to spool up when the throttles are hit. Or perhaps it was software, some birds getting sucked into the engines, or mechanical engine failure. Lets hope they find the exact cause, and can prevent the same thing from happening again.
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