Cubans found on seagoing ('51 Chevy) pickup

[LauraK]

MIAMI, July 23 ? Cuban migrants fashioned a boat out of a 1951 Chevy pickup truck and ?drove? it to within 40 miles of the United States before they were spotted and returned to the island, the U.S. Coast Guard said Wednesday.

THE DOZEN migrants, some sheltered in the truck cab or under a yellow tarp covering the bed, were noticed last week by a U.S. Customs aircraft south of Key West, Coast Guard Petty Officer Ryan Doss said.

A propeller attached to the drive shaft of the green
vintage pickup was pushing it along at about 8 mph, Doss said. The truck-raft was kept afloat by empty 55-gallon drums attached to the bottom as pontoons.

More here

[Nambe]

1. I saw that earlier... They sank it!, said it was a seagoing risk

What a bummer. It would have looked good in the Smithsonian.

[DemoTex]

6. Scholarships to Georgia Tech! Mechanical engineering.

They already have their "float" for the Tech homecoming parade, a green Ramblin' Wreck.

[I AM SPARTACUS]

11. Guest Appearance on Monster Garage...

[Throckmorton]

42. Or at least Junkyard Wars

Going to all that trouble just to come to the United States?

I dont understand it

[gristy]

10. what a beautiful ship

Looks like it even has a fresh coat of paint. Yes, citizenship for these brave shipwrights!

[Jim Ryalto]

34. Should have painted it blue

The bright green and yellow must have been easy to spot from the air...

[Best_man23]

40. Now There's Something You Don't See Everyday

They get a 9.9 for Artistic Impression.

It would have been a 10 if they would have made it all the way and drove it ashore.

[Pert_UK]

2. I'd grant them citizenship purely for style, balls and ingenuity!

Come on - don't tell me that people like that couldn't make a positive contribution to the USA!

P.

[BiggJawn]

3. Like a Rock...

If the oil drums leak,
Like a Rock,
Davey Jones'll getta peek....

They should get style points!

[laconicsax]

4. Just like in Junkyard Wars

There was an episode with 3 teams: one British, one Russian, and one Murikan. The 3rd stage of this race thing they had to do was a water course. The Brits and Murikans put propellers on the drive shaft of their trucks (the previous 2 stages were land stages). The Russians put some wheels on a boat.

[I AM SPARTACUS]

14. and sorta like South Louisiana...

[stevedeshazer]

5. That is amazing

One of those pickups was my first vehicle.

[rudeboy666]

9. Fools

They risk their lives to travel to a racist, greedy, patriarchical society.

Were have you gone Che Guevara!!!!!

;-)

[NYC]

7. Very resourceful.

They deserve some kind of reward.

[joshcryer]

8. They almost made it *without* having to resort to violence.

That's how it should be. People like that ought to be allowed citizenship just on that alone.

[Mika]

12. Medals? Rewards? Citizenship? Are you people kidding?

The local Miami TV stations were reporting that there were children on board. Children with NO LIFE VESTS. As another poster pointed out, if a couple of those drums leaked too much then there would be DEAD children.

Remember Elian? IF those sport fishermen hadn't seen him he would be dead like 13 others who took the same voyage in an overloaded and dangerous boat, including his mother who put the child on an overloaded boat, with a bad outboard motor, without life vests.

This constitutes reckless child endangerment. The people who put children on that "vessel" should be prosecuted, and their competency to protect and care for their children should be questioned by a family court.


This message board has Americans -Democrats- here that want to reward this reckless & dangerous behavior put upon children?

Pathetic. :puke: :puke: :puke:

[Mika]

15. I just wanted to add

I just wanted to add that they took this vehicle out into the Gulf Stream. In hurricane season. With a tropical depression headed right through that area tonite. The sea can get VERY rough very fast out there.

Its not like Cubans don't get weather forecasts, and this TD has been brewing out there for a week+.

Its dangerous to take a high quality small boat out there let alone an overloaded one. Let alone an overloaded truck on oil drums.

What mad persons would put children on this thing and set it out into the Gulf?

[Pert_UK]

16. A couple of things.....

Firstly, I'm not 100% sure people are being completely serious on this topic - nobody was actually harmed, so we're having a bit of a light-hearted discussion about it.

Secondly, whilst I agree with your sentiments about endangering children, I would have to assume that the parents were in a pretty desperate situation if they thought that the best (only?) option available for them to gain a better life for themselves and their families, was to make this perilously risky voyage with their children.

[Mika]

19. They could have applied for a LEGAL US immigration visa

The US offers 20,000 legal immigration visas per year to Cubans. The US does the background search.

BUT, Cubans who make it here illegally are offered immigration perks like no other nationality by the US Cuban Adjustment Act and the supplementary "wet foot/ dry foot" policy.

IF Cubans make it to the US, NO MATTER HOW, they get to stay and enjoy all of the benefits of the Cuban Adjustment Act. For Cubans exclusively, it offers instant work visa, instant qualification for a green card, instant sec 8 housing with an upper income exemption, instant social security, instant welfare (with some additional perks just for ex-Cubans).

PLUS, they don't have to qualify for a legal visa background search for criminal records or mental illness diagnosis (required of everyone else who wants a US immigration visa).

There is nothing else that compares to this in US immigration policy.


People flock to the US from all over the Caribbean and Latin Americas -democracies-, risking their lives, and quite a lot die attempting, NONE are offered what Cuban immigrants are offered.

Cuban immigrants are the only type of Americans, hyphenated Americans, or resident aliens allowed by the US gov to visit Cuba. They are a special class of "super" citizen in the US that have immigration perks, tax & income exemptions, and (unlike the rest of us in the USA) they have their FULL travel rights.

Why would Cubans want to return to the evil island of the evil Dr Castro that they "escaped" from? I'll tell you why.. they are not "escaping" Cuba. They are coming to America for the same reason that almost all immigrants have come here - (perceived) opportunity - except that Cubans are offered a little more opportunity

[Nambe]

17. I see a lot of life jackets in the photo. Anti-Castoians can't see them?

Don't you just love Miami media.

[Mika]

18. The US Coast Guard dropped the life jackets from a helo

Thats where the photo was taken from.

[Muddleoftheroad]

20. Freedom

Yeah, it's amazing what people will risk for freedom.

The next time some of those pro-Castro types post here, maybe they will remember this.

As for the rest of the posts, please note: These people risked everything -- lives, dreams, etc. -- and you are making jokes. Now they are returned to Cuba. I wonder what fun awaits them there...

[Mika]

21. Nope - the pot o' gold at the end of the rainbow

"Yeah, it's amazing what people will risk for freedom." <-- Posted by Muddleoftheroad

Get real. You constantly post that red herring on Cuba threads. Can't you come up with something a little more thought out?


So explain why so many Mexicans from democratic Mexico risk their lives crossing rivers and/or deserts. Many die trying. (I used Mexico as an example, but pick any Caribbean or Latin American country)

What are they "escaping"? Democracy?

Nope. They come here for opportunity to earn more money (some of which is sent back to the family in the homeland), just like Cubans


Except that illegally entering Cubans are allowed to stay. No hearing. No detentions. Near instant parole into the population. Bypassing the criminal background qualification. No sponsor required for illegal entrants.

It is official US policy.

There's nothing else like it.

[Muddleoftheroad]

22. Freedom

Don't you consider freedom of opportunity to be freedom? Hell, that was big time important to our founders. It still is to most people.

And for all we bust on the U.S., Mexico is not exactly swimming in freedom. They have had a full-fledged open rebellion as the result of how things are there. Corruption is still rampant as well.

As for letting Cubans stay, I'll tell you one thing, I'd make room for one of these people on my couch if I had to so I could let them stay her in America. We NEED people like this.

So what do you think awaits these poor souls in the Garden of Eden that is Cuba?

[Mika]

24. Pot o gold

{on edit: fixed some misspelling}

All quotes posted by Muddleoftheroad

"Don't you consider freedom of opportunity to be freedom? Hell, that was big time important to our founders. It still is to most people."

Then we should allow all immigrants pursuing MORE opportunity to stay in the USA?



"And for all we bust on the U.S., Mexico is not exactly swimming in freedom. They have had a full-fledged open rebellion as the result of how things are there. Corruption is still rampant as well."

There is rebellion against government corruption there? When is that gonna start here in the good ol' USA?



"As for letting Cubans stay, I'll tell you one thing, I'd make room for one of these people on my couch if I had to so I could let them stay her in America."

Are there Cuban migrants at your house now, or is that an offer? If not, why haven't you done that earlier then? This illegal immigration has been going on for 40+ years.



"We NEED people like this."

Cheap labor republicans need more illegal immigrants in the USA.

You really think that its a good thing that there is a bypass from the criminal background check and no mental illness records to enter the USA? Do we really need more people who recklessly endanger their children here?



"So what do you think awaits these poor souls in the Garden of Eden that is Cuba?"

An economy stilted of as much opportunity as the US mainly by the US travel sanctions and the extra territorial US Helms-Burton law (as well as the US Libertad act, the Support for Cuban Dissidents act, etc, etc).

What awaits Cubans in America are immigration perks that allow illegals to instantly become legal (the insane Wet Foot/ Dry Foot policy), and that offers instant access to the US marketplace that isn't offered to any other immigrant group.


But, immigrants who get NO perks or special privileges still pour into the US from democracies. They wait years for immigration visas, years for I-4 documents, wait years for application qualification for green cards, wait years for sec 8 housing, etc. NOT SO FOR CUBANS. Most is the above is instant, guaranteed green card in one year.

[Muddleoftheroad]

50. All responses

Also by Moi, responding to thou:

"Then we should allow all immigrants pursuing MORE opportunity to stay in the USA?"

No, unfortunately, it would get quite crowded. So we make choices. I am very pro-immigrant and those who are motivated enough to get here like this deserve credit.

"There is rebellion against government corruption there? When is that gonna start here in the good ol' USA?"

I have no idea. You?

"Are there Cuban migrants at your house now, or is that an offer? If not, why haven't you done that earlier then? This illegal immigration has been going on for 40+ years."

I was quite impressed by the actions of these freedom loving folks. And I would be willing to put myself out for them. No, I don't have any Cuban migrants living on my couch right now, otherwise I couldn't make room for one of these folks.

"Cheap labor republicans need more illegal immigrants in the USA."

I am not a cheap labor republican, I am a freedom-loving Democrat.

"You really think that its a good thing that there is a bypass from the criminal background check and no mental illness records to enter the USA? Do we really need more people who recklessly endanger their children here?"

Wow a bypass on criminal background check who escape from a nation run by a criminal -- Castro. Sounds OK to me. I don't think trying to get freedom for your children is recklessly endangering them.

"An economy stilted of as much opportunity as the US mainly by the US travel sanctions and the extra territorial US Helms-Burton law (as well as the US Libertad act, the Support for Cuban Dissidents act, etc, etc)."

I notice you didn't answer my question. What sort of punishments does your friend Castro have planned for people who dare to leave his paradise?

As for the rest, we set limits, rules and guidelines for every immigrant group. So what?

[Mika]

52. I did answer your question

There are no punishments for repatriated "rafters" in accordance with the 1996 US/Cuba migration agreement. The US interest section in Cuba does routine follow-ups on them.

Cuba has fulfilled its end of the accords, the US has not - in that since the W* admin's taking office the INS has not processed the LEGAL immigration applications in a timely way, as agreed to.

[Mika]

53. Letting criminals enter the US is OK with you?

"Wow a bypass on criminal background check who escape from a nation run by a criminal -- Castro. Sounds OK to me." <--posted by Muddleoftheroad


There are no criminals in Cuba? What are you smokin'?

Convicted rapists, child molesters, violent criminals, thieves and such (who have served jail time) DO NOT QUALIFY FOR LEGAL US IMMIGRATION. Its the law.

Cubans rafters (or smuggled in on go-fast boats) who have failed a US BACKGROUND SEARCH, done by the US interest section in Cuba, can enter into the US population under the US "wet foot/ dry foot" policy designed for Cubans only.


So, you think that allowing these criminal elements into the US under this policy is a good thing? :puke:

[Muddleoftheroad]

54. Yes

I don't trust the criminal convictions in a nation like Cuba that is entirely a criminal enterprise.

[Set]

23. So, the people who escaped over the Berlin Wall....

should have gotten in trouble for child endangerment if they brought their kids with them? After all, they risked being shot...

How about the Jews who tried to flee Nazi Germany?

These people were fleeing an oppressive government. They "mutually pledge to each other Lives, Fortunes, and sacred Honor."

And you want to put them in jail...

Tell us....What's your position on rape victims resisting their attackers? Should they "just lie back and enjoy it"?

Child endangerment my ASS...
:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke::puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:

[Mika]

26. Silly arguments all around

All quotes posted by Set


"So, the people who escaped over the Berlin Wall should have gotten in trouble for child endangerment if they brought their kids with them? After all, they risked being shot..."

Straw man argument. There's no Berlin wall sharpshooters shooting at Cubans on derilict vessels. they endangered the kids themselves by taking to the high seas in an unsafe "vessel", with no life vests.



"How about the Jews who tried to flee Nazi Germany?"

Surely you're not comparing Cuba to Nazi Germany, are you?

(You know that internet debate axiom about whomever pulls the holocaust card first.. )



"These people were fleeing an oppressive government."

Then why do over 100,000 of these Cubans who "fled" Cuba hop on a plane in Miami and go back there every year for a visit to their family back home if its so oppressive that they had to recklessly endanger their children? The US government offers 20,000+ LEGAL immigration visas per year. (I've also explained in erlier posts the numerous immigration perks offered ONLY to Cuban immigrants, including illegals.)

Why do their families come to the US for a visit and return to Cuba? (Methinks that there is a LOT you don't know about Cuban migration.)



"And you want to put them in jail..."

Just where did I say that?



"Tell us....What's your position on rape victims resisting their attackers? Should they "just lie back and enjoy it"?"

LOL. Really. That is some pretzel logic.

[Set]

33. well...

"Straw man argument. There's no Berlin wall sharpshooters shooting at Cubans on derilict vessels. they endangered the kids themselves by taking to the high seas in an unsafe "vessel", with no life vests."

The dangers, while different, are in both cases real. People who crossed the Berlin Wall with their kids risked death at the hands of Stasi and VoPo troops, along with minefields, et cetera. The parents in this case risked death from drowning. In both cases, if things went bad, they would have died, and if things went well, they would have escaped.

"Then why do over 100,000 of these Cubans who "fled" Cuba hop on a plane in Miami and go back there every year for a visit to their family back home if its so oppressive that they had to recklessly endanger their children? The US government offers 20,000+ LEGAL immigration visas per year. (I've also explained in erlier posts the numerous immigration perks offered ONLY to Cuban immigrants, including illegals.)

Why do their families come to the US for a visit and return to Cuba? (Methinks that there is a LOT you don't know about Cuban migration.)"

To visit their relatives? The operative term is "visit"...

I'd imagine that Castro doesn't take too kindly to people emmigrating, by whatever means...and I'd be VERY wary of filing for legal immigration status there, for fear of being "disappeared". On top of that, don't Cuban children legally belong to the State? Our government could offer 50 million cubans legal immigration status...that doesn't mean that Castro's government would let them leave.

""And you want to put them in jail..."
Just where did I say that?"

Child endangerment is a criminal charge in the US...with fairly severe penalties. Would you rewrite the US code to make it NOT a criminal offense for Cubans? Because otherwise, bringing child endangerment charges would put the parents in jail. Weren't you the one saying it was child endangerment?

"Tell us....What's your position on rape victims resisting their attackers? Should they "just lie back and enjoy it"?"
LOL. Really. That is some pretzel logic."

Yup, it's asinine...just like saying that Cubans who try to escape Cuba are endangering their kids...

[Mika]

43. An active imagination

{on edit: formatted italics}

Quotes by Set

"I'd imagine that Castro doesn't take too kindly to people emmigrating, by whatever means...and I'd be VERY wary of filing for legal immigration status there, for fear of being "disappeared". "

An active imagination indeed. Obviously you've never been to Cuba. Nor do you know any Cuban-Americans, if you believe this.


Comparing Cuba to Nazi Germany is only done by persons with no experience in Cuba or awareness of Cuba issues, or by people with an anti Cuba agenda.



"On top of that, don't Cuban children legally belong to the State?"

Nope. Parental rights reign supreme in Cuba (except in cases of child endangerment or other abuse, just like the USA).



" Our government could offer 50 million cubans legal immigration status...that doesn't mean that Castro's government would let them leave."

So, you're position is that 'Castro' wants to keep disgruntled Cubans, who want to "flee" to the US, in Cuba to stir up shit? LOL



"Because otherwise, bringing child endangerment charges would put the parents in jail."

Wrong. A conviction MIGHT. But charges supported by proof (such as setting children out into the Gulf Stream without life vests) is cause for a family court to review their competency.

You obviously don't get it. Kids that drown in the Gulf as a result of their parents negligence end up dead.

That is why the US and Cuba agreed on the 1996 migration accords.



"Child endangerment is a criminal charge in the US...with fairly severe penalties."

Not always. It depends on the severity of the abuse/endangerment. Sometimes family counseling is recommended, its up to a family court judge.

[joshcryer]

28. Life isn't without risks.

I agree wholeheartedly that Cubans get it way too easy once they make it over here (and indeed, this is probably the most compelling reason for them to make the journey). But I find attempts on makeshift rafts more noble than violent hijackings. And especially in this case, with a boat that, at the very least, looks like it has very good workmanship built into it, and I believe could've made the trip.

My question is what their punishment is (if there is one) for trying to come to the US but failing?

Oh, and I don't think you can simply justify the 'wrongness' of their attempts to come here by saying that the US gives out 20k visas (didn't you once say that many Cubans weren't getting their visas granted?)... for all you know these immigrants attempted the 'right' way many times.

[Mika]

30. Not the same as putting children at risk of death by drowning

"But I find attempts on makeshift rafts more noble than violent hijackings. And especially in this case, with a boat that, at the very least, looks like it has very good workmanship built into it, and I believe could've made the trip."

Noble?

You can't really think that thing looked seaworthy in hurricane season, do you? NO LIFE VESTS for the children?

I think that recklessly endangering children is intolerable. Period.



"didn't you once say that many Cubans weren't getting their visas granted?"

By the USA. The W* admin has been delaying and denying the visas. That is not Cuban tyranny.

But, why wait for the legal process if they can get ALL of the perks if they're smuggled in or raft in?

Of the 20,000 offered, not all are even applied for.


My points being 1) that the US offers a carrot-on-a-stick for illegal immigration that encourages people to endanger their children unnecessarily at the same time as making it more difficult for Cubans to go the legal route, 2) many of the smuggled in and rafters either have failed a legal visa check, or would (due to a criminal record), which is rendered moot by the "wet foot/ Dry foot" immigration policy for Cubans only, 3) much of the economic privation in Cuba that creates the impetus for Cubans to seek more opportunity is a result of US policies such as Helms-Burton etc.


Any Cuban can get here legally or illegally, and the goose that laid the golden egg (that's you and me, the American taxpayer) foots the bill, at the expense of other citizens and residents who live here and/or came here legally.


These policies result in the reckless endangerment of children (if the adults want to risk their own lives, that's their right.. but not if they endanger children).

[joshcryer]

32. Sure, noble...

Noble?

You can't really think that thing looked seaworthy in hurricane season, do you? NO LIFE VESTS for the children?

I think that recklessly endangering children is intolerable. Period.

I think about it as more the Great Gold Rush. There were lots of risks, but people believed that there was gold at the end of the rainbow, so to say.

I think it certainly looked seaworthy, and given that it made more than half the trip, I suspect that it would've made the whole trip without any problems. And I don't think there is evidence to suggest otherwise.

Nothing is really black and white here.

By the USA. The W* admin has been delaying and denying the visas. That is not Cuban tyranny.

But, why wait for the legal process if they can get ALL of the perks if they're smuggled in or raft in?

Of the 20,000 offered, not all are even applied for.

Exactly. Why wait? (Note that I wasn't blaming anyone for the visa problems, I'm just saying that they're there and that they're obviously an issue.) And you know, I doubt many Cubans could actually afford to make a trip to the US, so they would have no reason to apply (I would be happy to see evidence to the contrary, of course; you must admit that I've been quite open minded here).

This is probably more or less people seeing other Cuban familes riding high because of family members in Miami who are sending them free money, and chosing to do the same thing with their familes. This is undoubtedly wrong, but not because the people themselves are taking advantage of the situation, but rather, because the situation exists in a way so that it can be taken advantage of.

If you think people should avoid opportunity on some subjective moral ground, then I think you're missing the overall picture. People have different drives.

[Mika]

46. Its an illegal gold rush, made legal by the "wet foot/ dry foot" policy

"And you know, I doubt many Cubans could actually afford to make a trip to the US, so they would have no reason to apply"

Family remittances. Their family and friends in the US send them money (about one Billion US $ per year goes to Cuban families in Cuba from Miami). The W* admin has increased the allowable remmitances by a factor of 10 this year. Plus, there are many taxpayer funded Miamicuban "exile" foundations that pay for the applications and/or the go-fast smugglers fee (about $10,000 per head.. its BIG business in Miami). Its like a chain. One family member gets in.. the rest come later.

It really is a pot-o-gold, immigration wise, for Cubans.



"you must admit that I've been quite open minded here"

Yes, you have. And you have rightly identified some of the reasons as to why this exclusive-to-Cubans policy is wrong.



"If you think people should avoid opportunity on some subjective moral ground, then I think you're missing the overall picture."

I think no such thing. Child endangerment is intolerable. Period.

If Cuban immigrants seek more opportunity and want to come to the USA then, like all other immigrants, they should do so using legal methods that doesn't endanger children.

The US offers more legal immigration opportunity to Cubans than any other nationality.

Its the 'wet foot/ dry foot' policy that is mainly to blame for encouraging this illegal immigration, but, in addition, the Cuban Adjustment Act offers perks that are like a pot of gold at the end of the immigration rainbow for Cubans only. If Cubans knew that they would be treated like all other illegal immigrants in the US then they would not be so brazen as to put their children at risk of drowning in the Gulf Stream without life vests.



"People have different drives."

Yes. There are laws to protect children from the negligent drives of some parents that endanger their children. (Like car seat laws, swimming pool fences and pool alarm laws, education requirement laws, age of consent laws, child protection services, family court systems, etc etc.)

[Mika]

31. There are no punishments

The US interests section monitors the repatriated Cubans to assure the 1996 migration agreements between the US and Cuba are maintained, part of the agreement is that the returned illegals are not prosecuted (unless they're hijackers) or persecuted.

Another part of the '96 migration accords is that the US is to process immigration applications quickly and without undue delay. The W* admin has reneged on that part of the agreement since taking office.

[Judi Lynn]

35. Interesting to know that W. is delaying the visa app. process

when everyone knows this puts pressure on people who want to get to the U.S. to go ahead without visas, take a chance, and maybe become enormous propaganda tools, if they run into trouble and need help, or drown.

As slow-witted people rarely take time to question what they've heard, most mentally lazy Americans simply add stories of immigrants struggling to make it in rafts, or the more comfortable smugglers' "go fast boats," to the growing, untended pile of half-@$$ed stories and propaganda they've heard before and never sorted out!

The rest of us have started looking around for more information, doing searches, reading all the available news stories, etc. Can't learn anything without making the effort, right?

Thanks, Mika, for linking that thread. I just looked it over, and see it was a TERRIFIC way to reopen the subject on a new message board system here! (It's easy to see that the same comments get resurrected, going for one thread, to another, to another, stolidly ignoring responses, and getting repeated, TIME AFTER TIME.)

[bluestateguy]

13. Jeb: Hurry up, hurry up. Get em' in and registered to vote!! Quick

[tlb]

25. People risk their lives to leave marvelous Cuba ???

Maybe they should have read that 200 post thread mostly of love letters to Cuba and Fidel we had a month ago. Maybe that would have impressed them with how well off they are. Let the words of Danny Glover set them straight.

After all, what do they know. They just live there.

[Mika]

29. Gotta link?

"Maybe they should have read that 200 post thread mostly of love letters to Cuba and Fidel we had a month ago."

Got a link?

On DU? Love letters to Fidel? ROTFLMAO


Maybe you mean this DU thread?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=114&mesg_id=114&page=

No Castro love letters there, but its a very good read, with lots of info and links about Cuba.

[Judi Lynn]

36. I've never heard a moderate or a liberal person try to accuse others

of being "Castro lovers," "Castro's useful idiots," etc., etc. That's a peculiar habit among rightwingnuts. They try to label people they don't like as being unpatriotic. Quite a nasty habit, that one.

Speaking of Castro, just found this article containing some facts I've never heard before.

(snip)
Castro Birthplace: Cuba's Semi-Secret Tourist Attraction
By John Rice Associated Press Writer
Published: Jul 24, 2003




BIRAN, Cuba (AP) - It's been a long time since anybody paved the potholed road to Fidel Castro's birthplace. Finding the place isn't easy either: No signs refer to it and the entry is little more than an unmarked dirt path.
Still, some 20,000 people over the past year have made their way to the recently restored, little-publicized monument to the man who has led Cuba for the past 44 years and who on Saturday celebrates the 50th anniversary of the launch of his revolution.

"We have to take care of it. This is a historic jewel," said Alcides Leyva, director of the sprawling, rustic homestead at the heart of 32,100 acres that once belonged to Angel Castro, the Cuban leader's father. (snip)


(snip) The Cuban leader has written of happy memories of his countryside childhood, but he has shown little attachment to the place itself.

It was the first farm expropriated as Castro's government pushed into collectivized agriculture.

Leyva said Castro had even signed plans to flood the buildings under a reservoir in the 1960s before his secretary, Celia Sanchez, intervened to save it. (snip/...)

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGA1TH0DIID.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

By the way, I read yesterday that when this administration decided to send the last hijackers back to Cuba, the Miami "exile" extremists were LIVID.

What CAN they do to threaten Bush now, since they've lashed themselves to his _pResidency, looking at him to do what no other President has done, and BOMB Cuba and hand it back to their corrupt, filthy hands. They can't even dare change horses now, and stop supporting him, as they have over committed, wouldn't you say?

They are STUCK with him and his decisions. He could decide to invite the entire Cuban Parliament to tea at the White House, and the "exile" extremists have nowhere to turn! They've vilified and trashed Bill Clinton, and Al Gore, and I think they've worn out their welcome with mainstream Democrats.

[DrBB]

41. Good point. And nice use of the <sub> tag

Gotta remember that one. Much more demonstrative than the mere asterisk.

But that's right about the "Castro lover" accusation being a dead give away. Were these people fleeing political repression or economic deprivation? Isn't that what was always asked about South/Central American refugees, many of them fleeing horrific right wing dictatorships that we had propped up if not actively installed? "They just want jobs"--the classic reichwing observation. People rarely act from single motives, but I'm quite sure economic desperation was part of the mix for these people. "See how horrible Castro is" is a simplistic, right-winger way of reading this event (redundant). How about, "See how horrible economic deprivation is"--equally applicable. And U.S. sanctions, driven by obsessive anti-Castro politics, have at least as much to do with that condition as Castro's failed economic system. If we had dropped sanctions years ago, Castro would long since have lost his stranglehold on the country. But we need our bogeymen.

on edit: OMFG! Do angle brackets actually function in headlines now? We can format headlines? Kinda? What hideous pandora's box have I opened here? Do other browsers read it that way or is it just a Mac thing?

[TankLV]

27. OK, now I feel bad because I see a country-western song in this.

It's too easy.

I'd change the 55 gallon drums to keggers or rum barrels - but I'm soooo bad.

Low ... ride ... ers ...

Feel like a little Santana anyone?

[Judi Lynn]

37. If we drop the embargo and travel ban

This kind of behavior will be phased out. They come here because of money, just as do people in all the poor countries in Latin Ameria, and the Caribbean.

(snip) Posted on Thu, Jul. 24, 2003

Why not be Cuba's friend?
Ending embargo would open a market hungry for U.S. goods

A letter from Samuel H. Brown of Charlotte, a retired United Methodist pastor:

It was my privilege to be in a Witness for Peace delegation to Cuba June 20-28. We met with Cuban farmers, health workers, government agencies, a film school, middle school, a builders cooperative and a community of people with AIDS.

People old enough to recall how it was before the revolution are especially proud of the improvements in schools and the medical system. Cuba has more doctors per capita than we do and the literacy rate is 98 percent.

Almost all had a real affection for Fidel Castro and blamed the failing of the communist state on the U.S. embargo on Cuba.

Many upper-class Cubans fled to Florida in 1960 and are bitter critics of Castro. They exert a powerful influence on U.S. policy, giving several million dollars to the campaigns of presidential candidates. They are the primary reason the embargo continues.
(snip)

(snip) A Cuban working group in Congress is hoping to lift the embargo, beginning with dropping the travel ban, maybe sometime in July. The Bush administration, however, is moving to make the travel ban stricter.

This is a grim situation, but even more ominous is that this administration is aggressively engaging in provocative action. We openly funnel money to Cubans who oppose the Castro government. There have been 73 Cubans arrested lately, charged with collaboration with the U.S. government to spread anti-governmental information and disinformation. Some were accused of treason. Our government calls those oppressed Cubans our democracy-loving friends, and we continue encouraging more to agitate and provoke Castro.

Ambassador James Cason publishes a list of the individuals and groups to whom his office gives money. Of course, the Cuban government can read it, too, and arrest any of the people any time.

It is a plan to fill Cuban jails and create for us "friends to liberate." When enough of these Cubans are in distress we will probably make some move to "liberate" them. (snip/...)

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/observer/news/opinion/6371140.htm

[Feanorcurufinwe]

38. No matter how you feel about this issue

No matter how you feel about this issue you can't deny that is one snazzy looking boat.

[Judi Lynn]

39. Can you imagine the jolt anyone would get

in another boat, seeing this creation for the first time, as it plowed across the water?

[underpants]

45. HERE's another Picture (Yahoo)

[Mika]

47. Jolt? Yes, but the 2nd phone call after one to the USCG should be for a..

guardian ad litem

http://www.nagalro.com/

[Loonman]

44. I'd give 'em an A for effort

Some Yankee ingenuity on the Cuban's part.

[Judi Lynn]

48. Comments after they returned to Cuba

(snip) Cubans Said They Thought Their Floating Truck Plan Wouldn't Fail
The Associated Press
Published: Jul 24, 2003




HAVANA (AP) - The Cubans who converted a 1951 Chevy pickup into a boat and got within 40 miles of Florida said Thursday they were sure that the audacity of their act would guarantee entry into the United States.
But a U.S. Customs plane spotted their unusual, bright-green craft in the Florida Straits. The Cubans were taken off and brought back to the island by the U.S. Coast Guard, which sent the truck to the bottom of the sea with machine gun fire.

"We thought that they would let us in because it was so outrageous," Ariel Diego Marcela told Associated Press Television News.

The truck-raft was kept afloat by empty 55-gallon drums attached to the bottom as pontoons. A propeller attached to the drive shaft of the vintage pickup was pushing it along at about 8 mph.

"We arrived at the coast in the same truck and assembled everything in six hours," said another of the would-be immigrants, Edward Perez Gras. "If they had let us get to Key West, we would have been able to drive it right onto the sand." (snip/...)

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/florida/MGAUYJLJJID.html

[Mika]

49. Rafters: `We just wanted to be economically free"

Eduardo Pérez Gras, one of the car/truck rafters, said upon repatriation to Cuba,

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/cuba/6379470.htm

``We just wanted to be economically free, without problems.''

[Le Taz Hot]

51. I took a Carribean Cruise

a couple of years ago and we rescued 5 Cuban refugees that had been in the ocean for 5 days. They were in this little tiny boat that looked like dingy and had fasioned a "shade" out of their T-shirts. They were starving and dehydrated. It was one of the most pathetic sites I've ever seen. The captain stopped this GIGANTIC ship and we picked them up where they were taken to the infirmary. We were on our way out and we tried to take them to Jamaica, the Grand Caymens and Cozumel. No one wanted them. I'm not sure what eventually happened to them as they were confined to the infirmary but I know they weren't taken back to Cuba. I'll never forget that sight.

[Judi Lynn]

55. Well, they made it back in time for CARNIVAL

Here's some interesting info. on that event:

(snip) Story last updated at 7:34 a.m. Friday, July 25, 2003


Cubans live it up with beer-soaked carnival
Associated Press
SANTIAGO, CUBA--Fireworks and beer. Parades and beer. Dancing in the streets with beer -- and rum. This is a whole different kind of communist party.

Cuba's second city has been dancing through carnival for centuries, under colonialism, capitalism and -- for most of the past 44 years -- socialism. (snip)

(snip) For centuries, the Feast of Saint James was the only official day of rest for Santiago's African slaves, who formed societies known as cabildos that marched through the streets in masks or costumes while dancing to African-style drumming that was often repressed at other times of the year.

In the old days, companies or politicians often financed marchers and their costumes sometimes promoted rum or political parties.

Since the revolution, the government has supplied cloth. Marchers sometimes have carried signs celebrating agrarian reform or the Moncada attack.

The rattles, maracas and drums of carnival helped nurture Afro-Cuban music that grew into son and salsa, though this year's carnival seemed to include as much rap and Mexican pop -- even a bit of Britney Spears, as traditional Cuban music.(snip/...)

http://www.charleston.net/stories/072503/wor_25cuba.shtml

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Gee, it was really decent of the slave owners in that Spanish slave colony to allow their victems one day off a year, wasn't it?