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jayfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:17 PM
Original message
Battle Over Domestic Wiretap Legislation to Begin in Earnest as Reid Backs Administration-...
Source: Ars Technica

The battle in the Senate over how to amend the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) begins on Monday when, over the objections of prominent Democrats, Majority Leader Harry Reid will introduce the White Housesupported version of a reform bill approved in October by the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence.

This past Tuesday, fourteen Democratic senatorsincluding presidential contenders Hilary Clinton, Barack Obama, Joseph Biden, and Chris Doddsigned a letter urging Reid to instead bring to the floor an alternative bill produced in November by the Judiciary Committee. That version of the legislation, which will now be offered as an amendment to the Intelligence Committee's bill, contained a variety of additional restrictions and checks on government wiretaps sought by civil liberties groups. It also, crucially, omitted a provision granting telecom companies retroactive immunity from lawsuits related to their cooperation with the president's extrajudicial eavesdropping program. President Bush has pledged to veto any FISA amendment that failed to provide such immunitya threat that did not deter the House from passing just such a bill last month.



Read more: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20071214-battle-ov...



Man, I could have sworn that the Democrats took control of both houses of Congress in 2006. WTH am I missing here?

Jay
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jimshoes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
1. I really am about ready to give up
I keep hoping there will be some semblance of a spine being shown to this cheating, lying, war pig administration but at every turn the chimp gets exactly what he wants and the ********* dems look like chumps.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 07:50 AM
Response to Reply #1
30. i feel wiped out
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humbled_opinion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
2. Democratic Leaders will not stand for their beliefs and cave over threat
In other words Bush intends to attack the majority Democrats with that old BS about If we don't have the ability to listen we can't stop the next attack.... Terra terra terra... Oooga Boooga... and Harry just melts and capitulates. Instead he should stand up to Bush and say all the Terra in the world is not worth giving up on the Constitution so go ahead and blame the Democrats all you want... America can see through the BS.
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jayfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I've Really Had A Hard Time Understanding This Sensitivity...
Edited on Fri Dec-14-07 03:44 PM by jayfish
to how the other side of the isle is going to attack our poor leaders for standing up for their constituents. The fact of the matter is that they are going to be attacked anyway. ...regardless of their take on the issue. They could present OBL's head on a pike, on live TV, and they would be attacked for it the same day. STOP CARING ABOUT WHAT THE OTHER SIDE THINKS! They sure don't give two craps about what we think.

Jay

Grammar Edit
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. The problem is that they ARE standing for their beliefs.
They just aren't honest about their beliefs in public.
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #9
18. I didn't want to believe it was true, but the evidence is now overwhelming
We are abandoned to the Arch-Criminal Bushies and their Enabling Toadies.

You know, under Truth in Advertising Law (not that there is any such thing as Rule of Law in Imperial Amerika, just rules for peasants to follow that Party Comrades don't have to) they really should change the names of the two parties to those two in the 'graph above.

Then, the handful of the members of the Imperial Congress could form the Loyal American Party.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 07:51 AM
Response to Reply #18
31. k
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Toots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #2
36. Do you think it's possible they are looking ahead to a Democratic President
It would be nice to listen in on Republican strategy sessions...What is good for the goose is good for the gandar...
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Lost4words Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-16-07 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #36
45. You are so correct, bug every single one of them!
follow them, photograph them, record them, and even entrap them.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
4. Reid's complicit with criminality.
He is not on the side of justice, and cannot be trusted anymore.

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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #4
42. Pelosi was briefed about torture in 2002, and she was enthusiastic about it
Why do you think she put impeachment off the table, if not to cover up her own culpability and complicity in Bush's crimes?
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
5. To Me Reid is No Democrat
call me a purist but I really think this man is one giant poison pill, a trojan horse even.
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silverojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #5
39. He was elected in NEVADA
That means, he's a Repuke in Dems clothing.
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geomon666 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
6. Reid Backs Administration
That says it all.

There's no question now. We just got fucked over.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 07:48 AM
Response to Reply #6
29. i am about ready to scream
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Pastiche423 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
7. Can we recall a majority leader?
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
8. it's kind of ironic...
Edited on Fri Dec-14-07 04:08 PM by stillcool47
democrats vote with republicans because of some supposed 'fear' of repercussions....while the party faithful 'fear' nominating Barack Obama because <gasp> he's black, or he snorted some coke in his youth. The country is too racist...but not they. Then there's Dennis Kucinich...OMG don't vote for him because he's too liberal? The country is too conservative...but not they. What a farce..and the American people are stupid for not buying into this load of bull shit?
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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
10. They don't give a damn what the people want.
It's all about the power they get for themselves.
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balantz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
11. What a suck-ass piece of shit!!
Edited on Fri Dec-14-07 05:03 PM by balantz
Does anyone know which Democratic candidate Harry Reid is backing? That would be a clue as to who not to vote for!
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MasonJar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
12. We must all bombard Reid's office with a resounding NO. I intend to!!!!!!!!
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Lost4words Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-16-07 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #12
46. It wont make a damn difference, but I'll do it also. nt
8643
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MasonJar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
13. I seem to have misplaced the numbers (800 and otherwise) to the Capitol.
Can someone out there remind us of the numbers so we can all call. P.S. I wonder how much Reid received in bribes from the AT&Ts; I intend to ask him.
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disndat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. Reid's Telephone no.
202-224-3542.
Bombard his office with calls.
This is too bizarre. I would like to know the reason why.
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-16-07 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #21
43. The mail box belonging to Senator Reids Office...
is FULL.

And has been since at least Friday.

:puke:

I'm ready for a Tea Party.
And I'm NOT talking about
white gloves and fancy china!
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MadLinguist Donating Member (167 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-16-07 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #21
48. his voice mail box is already full. I hope that means its jammed
with indignant cries of betrayed constituents. But I wouldn't be surprised if it was "pre-jammed". Was he always a piece of shyte, or did something happen to this guy
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 04:41 AM
Response to Reply #13
27. Got 'em here in my sig line. TOLL FREE to the Capitol Hill switchboard
Edited on Sat Dec-15-07 04:42 AM by calimary
at bottom:
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hatrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 05:47 PM
Response to Original message
14. I'm sorry, but we vote for Democrats . . . . why?
Can somebody explain this latest jellyfish impersonation?

I mean, seriously, what is the point? What is the FUCKING POINT of supporting these clowns?
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thepurpose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. There is no point. These fuckers make want to go independent. This is down right embarrassing.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 01:25 AM
Response to Reply #14
26. There's certainly no point with Harry Reid
Not only has he proven to be an inept "leader" but he goes out of his way to enable (and even cross over and vote with) the far right.

Objectively, he has the worst record of any minority/majority leader in modern history. If the Democrats won't oust him, and Nevadans can't defeat him one way or another, he's going to continue to adversely affect the whole party- all the way down to state and local candidates.
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HowHasItComeToThis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
15. DON'T GIVE UP, BUSH AND REPUBLICANS WILL KEEP HAMMERING AS LONG AS POSSIBLE
THIS IS TOOOOOO IMPORTANT TO CAVE ON.
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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
16. Hmm. They must have something on Reid as well. It's all about the intelligence... and now that the
wiretap genie is out of the bottle, there's no putting it back in, because bushco has dirt on anybody and everybody that opposes them.
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MadLinguist Donating Member (167 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-16-07 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #16
49. I think they collect dirt on everybody, just in case of opposition
They sure got the means to collect whatever the eff they want.
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bullimiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
17. give 'em (whatever they want) harry!
Edited on Fri Dec-14-07 06:16 PM by bullimiami
and please dont send another one of those f(*&ng emails to my in box. you spineless p.o.s.


you know why they called them 'lame duck' presidents? because they couldnt do anything without the congress.
until this goddamned congress. they are an obedient duck congress. wtf.
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thepurpose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
19. We might as well still be in the minority. WTF did we win in 2006. Not a damn thing.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #19
41. We voted Democratic, and we got a DINO Congress instead.
We are the fools for never learning from our mistakes.
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Prisoner_Number_Six Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
22. It's not what YOU'RE missing- it's what THEY'RE missing
...that is to say, a real pair.

Funny how they can still so thoroughly fuck so many people even with the total lack of 'em.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
23. Someone must have wiretapped Harry Reid admiting that he drinks beer and dances. n/t
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caligirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 01:00 AM
Response to Original message
24. and yet no one is marching on the capitol steps wih a pitchfork in hand? hmmmm
Edited on Sat Dec-15-07 01:00 AM by caligirl
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caligirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 01:09 AM
Response to Original message
25. another scenario to talk about might be Reid getting the TELCO's to
tell him who came to them and asked for their cooperation and what they got in exchange for violating all of us. Coulde that be the most ridiculous idea? Just a thought. Everyone of those guys should get jail time, not time at some ranch or spa, but real jail time like Abramof is doing. No immunity!
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 07:48 AM
Response to Original message
28. my god. i am so so so angry
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Rockerdem Donating Member (706 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #28
32. Two-faced
In front of the cameras, federal politicians talk like there is a big conflict between parties. There isn't.

When leaders like Reid and Pelosi march to the White House, there's backslapping like you'd see in a locker room. "Principle" is just an inside joke. They're members of an exclusive club and - once on the inside - the players take turn helping their pals stay inside. Funded by corporate cash.

This is our system. It is completely understandable; that is, if you approach it as an adult instead of a starry-eyed idealist. Frankly, it's not going to change in the near future, no matter the rhetoric.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
33. Reid and Pelosi=Trojan Horses for the GOP
and Bush administration.
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Rockerdem Donating Member (706 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. It's the system
In countries with parliamentary systems, there can be fairly radical change on short notice. In our country, the filibuster mechanism prevents it. So leaders tend to gravitate toward the mushy middle with a corporatist mentality, and we get tweaks, not progressivism.

Over the years I've become resigned to it. If, for example, HRC was elected, I'm positive little would materially change. If BO makes it, there would be somewhat more reform, but nothing drastic. The USA is a behemoth aircraft-carrier powered by a force much stronger than the political system. Politicians nudge it one way or another, but only slightly and with much delay in response. If they care to at all.

I can envision the scene of Bush and Reid, with the chimp punching Harry on the shoulder and laughing with that disgusting compadre/familiarity tone. All fake. And Reid lapping it up.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. Well Said
But I am starting to think they really want this. Not sure it's all fake.

The Democrats are managing to lose their own base and refill that void with disaffected conservatives who pretty much are the reason we find ourselves where we are today.
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Rockerdem Donating Member (706 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #35
37. Missed opportunity
Now and then, there are short windows to get things done, good or bad. Bush used his post-9/11 time to launch the Iraq War.

What distresses me is that our party had a similar window earlier this year to end it. There was a national consensus that the wheels were off on the adventure, and Bush's ratings were in the toilet. There was an opportunity to cut off funds, and send a statement for a generation that another venture like Iraq was out of the question. Instead, Reid and Pelosi lacked the (fill-in-the-blank) to cut off monies.

Now, it will never happen. There was just enough backfilling done by the military and repair to Bush's polls so, that if his successor wants to start another such war, it is within the realm of the possible. It just makes me heartsick that they screwed the pooch at such a critical time.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #37
38. I Witnessed That Window As Well
but right now it's time to "punch" a hole thought that wall to make a window. We can't afford to wait anymore.
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
40. Why is Reid Senate Majority leader? He doesn't seem to be competent.
Or maybe he is owned by some corporate special interest group like the mining industry or something.

I thought he was a poor choice from the beginning.
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Lost4words Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-16-07 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
44. I am old, I cant tell you how many times I have felt the same.
and it isnt going to stop no matter who gets in. I hope to GOD I am wrong this time, but I dont expect to be. There is no opposition party.

I cant see it happening until there is a new political party to represent we the people born of flames.

I truly hope folks here are not too disappointed, mostly I hope I am wrong and the tide changes.

8643
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Brrrp Donating Member (124 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-16-07 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
47. The US has two right wing parties--just like the UK. nt
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-16-07 11:16 PM
Response to Original message
50. Someone explain to me why he is Majority Leader
:grr:
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classysassy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-17-07 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
51. Where do we find
people like Harry and Nancy?its about the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
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