Romney: 'Freedom requires religion'

[Thor_MN]

Source: CNN,com

CNN) -- White House hopeful Mitt Romney said religious liberty "is fundamental to America's greatness," in his Thursday address on faith in America.

"There are some who may feel that religion is not a matter to be seriously considered in the context of the weighty threats that face us. If so, they are at odds with the nation's founders," Romney said.

"Freedom requires religion, just as religion requires freedom. Freedom opens the windows of the soul so that man can discover his most profound beliefs and commune with God. Freedom and religion endure together, or perish alone," he said.



Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/06/romney.speech/in...

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Freedom and religion are two separate concepts. Freedom does not require religion, freedom tolerates relgion. Religion often does not tolerate freedom, relgion far too often has requires lack of freedom. Religion might be dependant of freedom, but the opposite is not true

[flyarm]

1. freedom from the Romney and GH* mkultra ...do the research..eom

[BeyondThePale]

2. What a douche bag...

This guy would say anything to be elected.

Oh, and my apologies to douche bags everywhere.

[JBoy]

3. "Freedom requires religion"?

WTF? Fuck you, Mitt. You obviously don't understand the concept of freedom.

[Betty]

4. and I'm sure he and the rest of the theocracy crowd

will be requiring religion of all of us, should they get their way and finish up the dismantling of the Constitution that the current dictator has begun. I imagine we'll all be assigned to local churches and attendance will be taken.

[Magleetis]

5. Nope

Freedom requires freedom from assholes like Romney who try to make everyone conform to their idea of what it means to be an American. I don't need to be lectured by a rich hypocrite. FUMR

[dmallind]

6. Etymological irony abounds

Since the very word comes from a verb meaning to tie or bind or constrict. Sometimes etymology bears little resemblance to current meaning. Sometimes it's a gimme.

[Tesha]

7. And

Or is it the other way 'round?

Tesha

[fascisthunter]

8. Religion Impairs Freedom

freedom of thought and expression. Religion is dogma...

[Zynx]

32. In practice it often does, but it depends on its application.

[lazer47]

9. When do we get to start the witch trials??????/

[DinahMoeHum]

10. Sheesh, what a dumb fuck !!! One has nothing to do with the other.

Fuck Mittens and the horse's ass he came out of.

[liberal N proud]

11. Religion is oppression

Where do I start at how religion oppresses people telling them they can't do this and they can't do that.

There is freedom to practice what ever religion you want but you don't have to be religious to be free. What a stupid fucker.

[thereismore]

12. You non-religious types can fuck yourselves. No freedom for you. nt

[YOY]

13. That is the single stupidest thing I've heard all week

No surprise though...

[TrogL]

14. Freedom is slavery

C'mon people, get it right.

[MannyGoldstein]

15. There's A Really Good Reason For Seperation Of Church And State

And by the way, when did Jesus say "As governor thou shalt only show up inside the state when there's a photo op with gay-bashers".

[ananda]

16. Anybody who says that..

freedom requires religion, knows
nothing about either one.

[catnhatnh]

48. Best quote of the day....

Kudos...

[trusty elf]

17. Mittwit

What a (lead-coated) plastic fraud and scoundrel!

[Lorien]

18. I'm a woman. Most of my gender would have to disagree

religion has enslaved women throughout human history. Religion is to freedom as Mitt Romney is to an intellectual.

[krabigirl]

19. That's funny. I always found religion to constrain freedom in so many ways.

Likewise, I've never felt as free as when I broke the chains of the Catholic faith in which I was raised.

I am so effing sick of polticians in both parties constantly talking about God. Worship what you want, but just stop talking about it. If they don't like it, they should just be preachers and leave the job of running the country to people who keep their faith as a personal matter. (Actually, I'd prefer an athiest, but that's never going to happen.)

[kestrel91316]

58. Your problem wasn't religion per se, it was that you picked the WRONG

religion. Everyone knows that Mormonism (or Fundie Christianity, or Islam, or fundie Hinduism, or Orthodox Judaism, or whatever) is the "only true religion".

Catholics are in league with the devil.

[Gormy Cuss]

20. Interesting philosophy, Mitts.

I hope you're the Repub candidate next year.

[RaleighNCDUer]

21. Mr. Romney - Freedom requires your retirement. nt

[Mz Pip]

22. Freedom gives us the choice

to pursue religion, be as devout as we want to be - or not.

Personally, I enjoy the freedom to not be religious. And want it to stay that way.

I wonder if we will ever see a day where and athiest or agnostic will be elected president. I doubt it.

Mz Pip

[Zynx]

33. There will be a marked drop in American religious affiliation this coming

few decades. I am not saying that is good or bad, but I think it will happen. An atheist president is entirely possible. I think we may have had them in the past, but they could not possibly admit it.

[krabigirl]

35. Wouldn't that be nice!

[Zynx]

64. I don't believe that it necessarily is good or bad, but it will be a development.

Secularization is clearly taking place.

[AnneD]

23. Our Founding Fathers thought....

the exact opposite, Religion requires Freedom....if I am to believe the stories about the pilgrims, the Quakers, the Huguenots, the Anabaptists, the Mormons, the Shakers, the Amish, the Mennonites, etc, etc, etc.....I think that is why so many came here. Religion is separated from state.

[Roland99]

24. Yeah, cuz organized religion has been so kind and peaceful and respectful for centuries.

Fucking asshat.

[IronLionZion]

25. So non-religious people should be enslaved by religious people?

because they don't deserve freedom? Damn, I wish Christians would try to be more like Christ.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

27. So we're releasing everyone at Gitmo?

I'm pretty sure most of them are there because of their religion.

[IronLionZion]

29. Well, you don't deserve freedom if you have the wrong religion either

Jesus Christ himself would be enslaved for his beliefs. The right religion is the love of money and corporations didn't you know? Greed is god.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

30. Thanks for the clarification...

For a minute there, I thought they were referring to all of the "Blessed Are The Peacemakers" shit in the Bible.

Whew!

[Ignis]

46. They're going to have to scrub that peacenik crap out of the Bible.

It really doesn't fit the Republican message of War Without End.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

53. Screw the Meek!

nt

[Ignis]

55. That's the first of the new Republican Commandments.

The second is "I got mine!"

[kestrel91316]

59. Well, that's exactly what Dominionists advocate:

".....So non-religious people should be enslaved by religious people?...."

[boricua79]

26. Freedom requires religion?

If religion imposes prohibitions...and prohibition is the opposite of freedom of choice...how is religion integral to freedom. Bullshit/pandering to conservatives alert!

Logic doesn't work, Mr. Romney....to the kiddie table with you!

[0rganism]

28. not exactly breaking new ground, is he?

Hell, even CNN notes that he's taking a page out of the Kennedy playbook, offering a preemptive apologetic for his beliefs.

Get it together, people, no need for hysterics. Romney's not making any extreme statements of religious establishment here, he's just trying to win back some of that fundy Christian vote that's been shifting to Huckster lately. The sinister/blessed headline-grabbing wording is just his way of saying to rightwing nutjobs that everyone can enjoy exploring metaphysics when it's not forced down their throats at gunpoint. This is a low-risk campaign speech in the heart of the bible belt, what else would you expect from a Republican?

Time to get back to criticizing him for more substantial concerns than his religion, let's leave that part to the fundamentalists.

[Zynx]

31. *Glances at Iran and Medieval Europe*

Hmmmm....This thesis fails.

[ladjf]

34. "Freedom requires religion" - In a rational society, Romney's

campaign would have ended upon making such a ridiculous statement.

[MaineYooper]

36. Air requires balloons, just like balloons require air!

Same logic, as far as I can see.

Willard Mitt Romney, continuing the wonderful tradition of making truly idiotic statements in order to impress the audience at hand...

[Javaman]

37. Yes, folks, he is that dumb. nt

[killbotfactory]

38. He should move to the Middle East if he wants to peddle that shit

what a pandering jackass.

[Jacobin]

39. As Thomas Jefferson said:

History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes.

-Thomas Jefferson to Alexander von Humboldt, Dec. 6, 1813

Apparently, Mr. Romney is as ignorant a dumbfuck concerning religion as he is about what our founding fathers thought.

This country is fucking doomed.

[Virginia Dare]

42. He embodies everything the Founding Fathers warned us against..

you're right, if we elect this moron, we're doomed.

[Virginia Dare]

40. I didn't think it was possible to out-stupid the stupid-in-chief..

but Mittsy done it. Good job, Mittsy, did you write that piece of garbage yourself?...

How profoundly ridiculous is it that a man this intellectually challenged is a serious contender for the White House?

[xxqqqzme]

41. How many terms was he governor?

Everything I see reported tells me is a as dumb as a rock...oh yea, that's right - he's a publican.

In a country w/ 350M people - these are the only publicans they can find to run? Sad.

[Betty]

45. he was "governor" for one term

I use the term loosely because as soon as the asshole was elected (and to this day, I don't know how that happened) he started getting ready to run for president. He barely spent half of the time actually in Massachusetts doing any work for the state that elected him, the last two years he was going all over the country dissing Massachusetts, telling anyone who would listen that we were a bunch of loser liberals.

[xxqqqzme]

63. sounds like what steroid boy is doing to get ready to run against

Boxer in '10.

[Swagman]

43. I'm using Voodoo on him right this minute

[ryanmuegge]

44. The corporate punditocracy annointed him as the president-elect

after this "moving" and "beautifully-delivered" speech.

[lanlady]

47. shut up already, Mitt

and all these other pious idiot candidates. They love talking about religion because they know that questioning the tenets of a person's faith, as opposed to his/her politics, isn't PC these days.

So, Mitt, you're free to believe that the nutso Jim Jones-style character who founded the Mormon cult or religion or what have you was a holy man. But freedom does NOT require the rest of us to believe this nonsense, on the contrary, to believe this nonsense is self-delusion.

[minnesota_liberal]

49. Like tin cans require Spam

Freedom most definitely does not require religion. The argument is completly absurd.

Given that some governments sanction an official religion but forbid others, Romney's assertion that religion requires freedom is also flawed.

This is what happens when a fundamentalist goofball tries to make a memorable statement of the same calibre as, "Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country."

[entanglement]

50. "...like a fish requires a bicycle"

[NoodleyAppendage]

51. Freedom requires that you subjugate yourself to a mythical superbeing?

Fuck Romney and his magical underwear and celestial "happy land" kingdom.

J

[Catsbrains]

52. what a douche bag.

Why was he given air time?

[SidDithers]

54. Hey Mittens...

Sid

[Proud Liberal Dem]

56. Ummm......yeah....whatever

RELIGION (the practice thereof) certainly needs freedom in order to thrive although it can exist without it (with more difficulty of course). I'm not sure that I understand how/why freedom needs religion to thrive but maybe I'm just missing something. Churches, based on my knowledge and experience, demand adherence to a series of beliefs/teachings and dissent is typically unwelcome and many dissenters usually end up being purged and/or starting their own churches (that are, ironically, equally intolerant of dissent). I'm not aware of any country failing (or becoming less free) on the grounds that it refuses to recognize and/or sanction a particular religion, which is what I think Mitt(?) and members of the "religious right" really want our country to do despite the obvious fact that if the separation between church and state fails to hold and one religion (a single interpretation thereof) is ever enshrined as the "official" religion, people who don't practice THAT religion would likely be subject to persecution including, ironically, people like Mitt whose religion is viewed derisively by some people as a "cult". One need only look to a country like Iran to see how a complete lack of separation between church and state and demanding adherence to a single religion (a single interpretation thereof) can make people a whole lot LESS free. Our country was partially founded on the principle of religious pluralism and some form of religion is practiced everyday by a lot of people in our country and, unless the "religious right" somehow gets its way, I expect that it will continue to remain the same as it has always been without any dire consequences for the state of our nation and/or our freedom. Frankly, living in the "Age of Bush" I can think of a lot more serious threats to our freedom than not having a state-sanctioned religion.

[LeftishBrit]

57. Freedom does not require religion...

either he's a nutcase or a panderer to nutcases. Probably the latter.

[ProudDad]

60. Utter, complete, bald-faced, unmitigated bullshit

"freedom requires religion"

What a crock!!!!

[Barrett808]

61. Weren't the Founding Fathers deists and Freemasons?

Just sayin'.

[ProudDad]

62. Which one?

Kurt Vonnegut had the best definition of religion -- it's all Foma...


OLD TIME RELIGION – Pete Seeger’s Version

Give me that old time religion
Give me that old time religion
Give me that old time religion
And that's good enough for me

G - - - / / D7 - - - / G - - - / / C - - - / G - D7 - / G - - - //

We will pray to Aphrodite
Even tho' she's rather flighty
And they say she wears no nightie
And that's good enough for me

We will pray with those Egyptians
Build pyramids to put our crypts in
Cover subways with inscriptions
And that's good enough for me

O-old Odin we will follow
And in fighting we will wallow
Til we wind up in Valhalla
And that's good enough for me

Let me follow dear old Buddha
For there is nobody cuter
He comes in plaster, wood, or pewter
And that's good enough for me

We will pray with Zarathustra
Pray just like we use ta
I'm a Zarathustra booster
And that's good enough for me

We will pray with those old Druids
They drink fermented fluids
Waltzing naked thru the woo-ids
And that's good enough for me

Hare Krishna gets a laugh on
When he sees me dressed in saffron
With my hair that's only half on
And that's good enough for me

I'll arise at early morning
When the sun gives me the warning
That the solar age is dawning
And that's good enough for me

Italic verses anonymous Folk Singers, last verse by Pete Seeger. Seeger reports that "Folk Singers" are science fiction fans that enjoy writing folk music parodies. On Pete Seeger and Arlo Guthrie "Precious Friends", Original version on Simon and Gavin "By Babel's Stream", on Ralph Stanley "I'll Wear a White Robe", on J.J. Mainer "V18", and on Woody Guthrie "The Early Years"

THAT (REAL) OLD TIME RELIGION
(with apologies to Pete Seeger)

Chorus:
Give me that Old Time Religion,
Give me that Old Time Religion,
Give me that Old Time Religion ...
It's good enough for me!

We will worship Aphrodite,
'Though she's kind of wild and flighty -
We will see her in her 'nighty
And that's good enough for me!

We'll sing praises to Apollo;
Where the Sun God leads we'll follow
('Though his head's a little hollow) -
He's good enough for me!

With the aid of my athame
I can throw a "double-whammy"
(And can slice and dice salami!)
So it's good enough for me.

Let us raise a toast to Bachus,
We will raise a royal ruckus,
Then we'll lay us down and f**k us -
That's good enough for me.

It was good enough for Buddha,
As a god he kinda cute-a,
And he comes in brass or pewta'
So he's good enough for me!

Well the Christians all are humming
'Cause they say their God is coming;
Our God came three times this evening;
That's good enough for me.

Uncle Crowley was a dreamer (1)
At the Abbey of Thelema
But his magic is a screamer,
So it's good enough for me.

When the clouds they are a'rumbling
And the thunder is a'grumbling,
Then it's Crowley that you're mumbling,
And it's good enough for me!

We will worship Great Cthulhu, (2)
We will worship Great Cthulhu,
And we'll feed him Mr. Sulu
'Cause that's good enough for me!

It was good enough for Dagan, (3)
A conservative old pagan,
Who still votes for Ronald Reagan,
But he's good enough for me!

Well I'm tired of Ronald Reagan,
He's too square to be a pagan,
Let's all vote for Carl Sagan!
He's good enough for me.

We all worshipped Dionysus
'Till we ran into a crisis -
The bar had raised its prices;
That's not good enough for me.

We will worship like the Druids
And drink strange, fermented fluids
And run naked through the woods
'Cause that's good enough for me!

We will go and sing "Hosanna"
To our good ol' pal, Gotamma.
He will never flim or flam ya',
And that's good enough for me!

It was good enough for Isis,
'Cause she comes through in a crisis
And she's never raised her prices
So she's good enough for me.

There are some that call it folly
When we worship Mother Kali.
She may not be very jolly
But she's good enough for me.

Shall we sing in praise of Loki, (4)
Though he left poor Midgard smokey?
Oh, his sense of humor's hokey,
But he's good enough for me.

It was good enough for Loki,
The old Norse god of chaos,
Which is why this verse doesn't rhyme or scan,
But it's good enough for me!

Montezuma liked to start out
Rites by carrying a part out
That would really tear your heart out,
But it's good enough for me!

It was good enough for Odin
Though the tremblin' got forbodin'
Then the giants finally strode in,
But it's good enough for me.

There's that lusty old Priapus - (5)
He's just itching to unwrap us.
(He'd do more to us than tap us
And that's good enough for me!)

Shall we sing a verse for Thor,
Though he leaves the maidens sore?
They always come back for more,
So he's good enough for me!

It was good enough for Venus,
Of the Gods she is the meanest
And she bit me on my ... elbow
But she's good enough for me!

There are those who practice Voodoo,
There are those who practice Voodoo,
I know I do, I hope you do -
It's good enough for me.

Meeting at the Witching Hour
By the Bud and Branch and Flower
Folks are raising up the power
And that's where I want to be.

1) The Abbey of Thelema was a temple founded by Aleister Crowley in a rented villa at Cefalu, Sicily in 1920. The name for this magical temple was taken from a fictional abbey in Rabelais's satire Gargantua, where all worldly pleasures were freely indulged. As in that story, Crowley painted the words, "Do What Thou Will" over the door

2) The best answer to this question is found in Lovecraft's tale "The Call of Cthulhu". Cthulhu is a monstrous entity who lies "dead but dreaming" in the city of R'lyeh, a place of non-Euclidean madness presently (and mercifully) sunken below the depths of the Pacific Ocean. Cthulhu appears in various monstrous and demonic forms in early myths of the human race. Racial memory preserves Him as humanity's most basic nightmare. Cthulhu is the high priest of the Great Old Ones, unnatural alien beings who ruled the Earth before humanity formed, worshipped as gods by some misguided people. It is said that They will return, causing worldwide insanity and mindless violence before finally displacing humanity forever.

3) Dagan was a deity of grain, the meaning of his name in North West Semitic languages (Hebrew, Ugaritic), this latter a fact that betrays Dagan's origins in Syria and Canaan before the spread of his cult throughout the ancient Near East in the late third millennium BCE. As the "corn god", Dagan was popularly associated with fertility and prosperity, and was held in some traditions as the inventor of the plough.

4) Loki is one of the major deities in the Norse pantheon. He is a son of the giant Farbauti ("cruel striker") and the giantess Laufey. He is regarded as one of Aesir, but is on occasion their enemy. He is connected with fire and magic, and can assume many different shapes (horse, falcon, fly). He is crafty and malicious, but is also heroic: in that aspect he can be compared with the trickster from North American myths. The ambivalent god grows progressively more unpleasent, and is directly responsible for the death of Balder, the god of light.

5) Priapus' attribute This god is mainly known for his huge virile member, and the size of it is so enormous that it has been called "column", "twelve-inch pole", "cypress", "spear", "pyramid", and many other names of the same kind referring to the dimensions of his penis. And just as Zeus shows his thunderbolt, Poseidon his trident, Athena her spear, Apollo his golden arrows, Hermes his caduceus, Dionysus 2 his thyrsus, Heracles 1 his club, so Priapus cannot but proudly exhibit his penis, which best represents him, and without which he is weaponless. This is the reason why his privy parts are always shameless displayed in erection.