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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-30-07 02:47 PM
Original message
At least 5 seriously hurt as trains collide (Amtrack)
Source: cnn

CHICAGO, Illinois (CNN) -- At least five Amtrak crew members were critically or seriously injured Friday when their train collided with a freight train traveling on the same track, Chicago Fire Department spokesman Larry Langford said.

The five employees were among 10 people rushed to the trauma unit of Cook County Hospital, Sean Howard, a spokesman for the hospital said. He said a child may be among the 10. About 100 of the 150 passengers were "walking wounded," Langford said, injured when the train came to a sudden stop. Medical personnel was examining them.

Diane Hunter, a spokeswoman for Mount Sinai Hospital, said officials were expecting the arrival of four passengers, but she did not know their condition.

The Amtrak No. 371 train was coming from Grand Rapids, Michigan. Video showed the Amtrak train on top of one of the freight train's cars....

Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/11/30/trains.collide/index.html
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Fovea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-30-07 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. Amtrak needs it's own high speed trunks
and it needs it yesterday.

Chicago, it is a rail freakshow, traffic wise.
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-30-07 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. That's money.
Edited on Fri Nov-30-07 03:03 PM by YOY
HSR (High Speed Rail), like what we use for the Acelas are viable for major traffic areas like the NE corridor and the California routes. The cost to implement them for other routes would be high and no doubt a capitally funded project. I don't think congress puts infrastructure that high up yet.

We have to use the freight rail's lines. We pay them for it.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-30-07 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Yes lets Blow up Iraq to the end of the earth
and kill a couple hundred thousand Islamics more or less with our money

</sarcasm>
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-30-07 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Did a Amtrack circle trip 20 yrs ago, had 3 incidents
WA-Chicago-New Orleans-LosAngeles-WA

Wa-Chicago hit big rocks on railroad, didn't tip over train but there was a lot of frantic yelling between railworkers.
New Orleans-LA hit a flatbed truck, had to wait 4 hours to get train checked before continuing.
LA-Wa had to detour around a chemical spill/train accident.

I was glad to get back home in 1 piece.
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-30-07 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #4
15. Hit a car in Utah
Some f***er decided to drive drunk DOWN the train tracks. We were about 20 miles from the nearest crossing and going FAST at like, 1 AM.

And yeah, that took about 5 hours to clear up.
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-30-07 02:55 PM
Response to Original message
2. Amtrak crew and employees sit up front in what we call the "transition sleeper"
Edited on Fri Nov-30-07 02:58 PM by YOY
We can travel free that way. No surprise the majority of the injured our Amtrak people. I think it was intended that way...to keep injured passengers to a minimum in case of such an event.

Glad to see that most of the passengers are somewhat OK. I hope the 10 injured are OK, especially the child.

The buzz in the company is angry somebody f***ed up. Most likely the freight company or the guy who is supposed to supervise the lines before the trains are switched out.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-30-07 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #2
17. That makes sense all around. I rode up front with employees for a bit...
4. Wa-Chicago hit big rocks on railroad, didn't tip over train but there was a lot of frantic yelling between railworkers.

This was when I was upfront with employees, most yelling "are we on the ground!!" into their walky talky things.

Link to pictures via yahoo:
http://news.yahoo.com/photos/ss/events/us/113007amtrakcollide;_ylt=AiZDe7DMLWDxoxV7Ua_BsMRH2ocA
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-30-07 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
5. Railroads in this country have never been about moving freight or people.
It's always been a way to siphon money into financial deals. Remember when you learned in school about the railroads being given land as rails were laid across territories? They made more money on land sales than anything else!
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Stewie Donating Member (244 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-30-07 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. I saw a documentary on that.
A plan by the Attorney General to put a railroad through the town of Rock Ridge.
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-30-07 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Yes, I saw that too
John Wayne was supposed to star in it, but he said,
"I can't be in your movie, it's too dirty, but I'll be the first in line to see it when it comes out."
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-30-07 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. I've seen that documentary, too...


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Captain Angry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-01-07 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #12
22. Now!
Go do
That voo-doo
That you do
So well!!!



PS: That's Hadley!
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davsand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-30-07 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
6. I think that may be the train that I was on when I went to FunDay at 5thGen Dem's house.
I think that may be the train that runs all the way to Detroit. If so, I rode that all the way into Detroit going up and from Ann Arbor to Chicago coming home.

Come to think of it, that trip home was a freak show because Chicago had some railroad bridge that burned up that day and it took forever to get into the city. Then it took something like 7 or 8 hours to get out. I could have driven home from Chicago one way in 2.5 hours or even called from Union Station and had somebody drive to Chicago to GET me and then drive home--and I still would have been home sooner. I remember feeling bad for the Amtrak crews because EVERYBODY was pissed at the delays.



Laura
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amandabeech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-30-07 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. No, this train runs NNE to Grand Rapids through Holland.
It is a small spur to the Amtrak schedule, and doesn't go anywhere near Detroit.

West Michigan native, here.
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madeline_con Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-30-07 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
10. Isn't Amtrak notorious for wasted conductors? n/t
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-30-07 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. I've been putting my kids on Amtrack trains a couple times a year
for about 10 years now, and I've never seen any Amtrak employees that weren't doing a good job.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-30-07 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
11. Other thrid-world countries don't maintain their infrastructure, either. n/t
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Hulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-30-07 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
16. A terrorist attack for sure! Get your gun Annie..and lets invade Iran!!!!
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HeisenbergUncertain Donating Member (5 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-01-07 04:16 AM
Response to Original message
18. Some observations from an Amtrak insider.
Firstly -- and not to come off as a pedantic prick -- the proper spelling is Amtrak. Actually, Amtrak's true name is National Railroad Passenger Corp. (NRPC) and Amtrak is its public-friendly doing-business-as moniker. Secondly, there's an embarrassing amount of uninformed Amtrak mythology lingering about due both to a peculiar kind of irrational, almost pavlovian hatred of mass transit (ala cries of incompetence and thus for privatization) and a fundamental misunderstanding of the railroad transportation environment in general -- particularly as it works in the US. Amtrak desperately needs better PR and marketing, preferably with the aggression of a drooling, unfed Rottweiler looking at the airlines and publicly-funded highways as the only things standing between it and starvation. Disclaimer: I actually do work for Amtrak...

Outside of the Northeast Corridor (virtually all of the tracks and everything else from D.C. up to Boston), Amtrak owns very little of its own infrastructure, which means we're held hostage to whomever owns the right-of-way when moving trains outside that region. In the US, that's almost always a freight carrier and although we lease rights, the freights often fail to provide the agreed to level of service. All tracks may look alike, but there are actually 9 classes of track as designated by the Federal Railroad Administration, each with its own Maximum Authorized Speed. Anywhere from Class 1 (maxes out at 10MPH) to Class 9 (maxes out at 200MPH). Class is determined by track geometry (basically how the rails, sleepers, ballast, and substructure all interact). The higher the class, the lower the magnitude of deviations from construction standard you're allowed. To my knowledge, there's no class 9 anywhere in the US. The highest class (class 8, I think) is up around northern CT and RI. Further complicating the issue is that different types of rail traffic (light commuter vs. passenger vs. light freight vs. heavy haul) will substantially affect how your track structure degrades over time. Just as a constant barrage of tractor-trailer traffic will chew up a highway faster than passenger cars, so will heavy freight downgrade your track class faster than passenger traffic. Temporarily lowering your track class causes cascading delays throughout the rail network, screwing up on-time-performance and pissing passengers off.

Freight trains can't and don't move particularly fast. They don't need to. The companies that run them don't care. For a carrier like CSX or BNSF, keeping their tracks operating at class 3 may provide the ideal cost/benefit ratio. Class 3 limits Amtrak to 60MPH. If you've ever taken the train to New Orleans from DC, you'll notice it starts crawling for long stretches south of VA. That's why. Hell, most territory outside of the Northeast isn't even electrified, leaving diesels as the only feasible locomotives. When you start getting into scheduling actual maintenance for the railroads, it gets even more depressing. Even within the Northeast Corridor, the FRA requires Amtrak allow freights to run at night, giving the maintenance crews maybe 2 or 3 hours in a 10 hour shift to do actual work. In MD and DC, a lot of the tracks run through what's basically swamp. Mudspots and other geological constraints cause constant headaches.

There's a lot more involved, but suffice it is to say that rail transit ops in the northeast gets very complicated very quickly. When comparing Amtrak to rail in other countries, you'd be surprised by some things. For instance, the FRA in this country has some of if not THE most stringent testing requirements in the world. Most of Amtrak's accidents happen at grade crossings (where roads cross tracks) because people who drive are too dumb to realize that sitting in the path of an oncoming train might ACTUALLY mean getting hit by it. Unless they happen to be fundie loons, in which case Jesus will reach down from the sky at the last moment to save them. These people deserve zero sympathy. It's like sticking your hand into a garbage disposal, switching it on, and then being surprised when the first set of finger joints go missing. In the US, of course, people would either call for a ban on garbage disposals or legislate an amount of safety so absurd as to render them useless.

Amtrak also has the distinction of its Acela being the world's fastest trainset to run in a mixed-traffic environment.

And, no, Amtrak's conductors, engineers, etc. are NOT constantly wasted. Most Amtrak personnel take a large amount of pride in working for the railroad. Railroad workers also do not pay into social security, but instead railroad retirement. Railroad retirement is flush with cash, has defined benefits, and thus far immune from all the accounting voodoo that afflicts social security. It's a model pension system.

It'll be interesting to see how things play out when/if Amtrak's unions go on strike next year. Bush has already appointed his emergency 30-day board. This thing's been dragging on for 8.5 years. When workers went on strike in the late 20's/early 30's, there was a law passed forbidding railroad workers to strike for 9 years. Apparently that first major strike was just TOO effective. We've had some interesting debates on unions internally...





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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-01-07 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. Jason? Is that you?
n/t
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cap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-01-07 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. At least one of us on the NE corridor appreciates Amtrak
I know there's a lot of problems with funding it appropriately. Could I ask a couple of questions:

1. Why cant Amtrak go any faster?

2. Why is the food so lousy? I'd actually eat meals on the train. But the food just isnt good. So I dont.

3. Why isnt the differential with Accela and the Regional train greater? I am not saving as much time as I'd like.

4. What's the story about cancelling the Clocker between Philly and NYC? That was a very comfortable ride. And while we're at it, why the fare increase for monthly rail passes? They've effectively priced that out of the average worker's budget.

5. Could the seats get to be more comfortable?

Generally I am a happy camper with Amtrak...Would get a monthly pass if it were more affordable.

Regards
Carol
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. I can help for one or two of those. I work for Amtrak too.
1. The rails you ride are shared with the freight trains. Often one of them gets in the way and slow us up. Acela uses High Speed Rails and has no such drawback. More of our trains could go faster if we had our own rails and more of the HSR to boot.

2. The Union folks run the kitchens and the cafes. I personally don't think it that bad, but if you are expecting us to outsource the commissary any time soon. I head the last time we tried there were ambulaces... The union boys don't play.

.3 I don't do pricing.

4. Don't know.

5. Sorry, they can't. The Acela trains have more comfortable seats.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-01-07 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. oh hell, can't believe I mispelled it. So sorry, really. And thanks for the writing.
I thought I finally quit spelling it wrong, me being a pedantic spelling strictist too. I have had very good interactions with Amtrak employees but the system needs work. I can see it picking up a lot in coming years when private auto travel becomes more and more expensive. Thanks for your input and sorry about the mispelling. What do you do with Amtrak?
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NuttyFluffers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. welcome to DU. and tell amtrak to buy a RR line from SF-LA-LV
that'd bring beaucoup $$, especially if they can be class 9 lines (i'd prefer class 10 or 22 or warp factor 3, but that's me). if i was in control each $ of profit would go into a bullet train between LA and Vegas first.

i was thinking of using amtrak form SF to LA last time, but when i saw it was going to be a 12 hour overnight ordeal i strongly reconsidered. the savings were meager compared to flying, and considering the distance between Osaka and Tokyo is roughly the same and only takes 2 hours, i was painfully underwhelmed. but amtrak was wonderful between P-town and NYC. nothing like getting into downtown manhattan w/o driving... ahh.
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