Calls in Sudan for execution of Briton

[maddezmom]

Source: AP

KHARTOUM, Sudan - Thousands of Sudanese, many armed with clubs and knives, rallied Friday in a central square and demanded the execution of a British teacher convicted of insulting Islam for allowing her students to name a teddy bear "Muhammad."

The protesters streamed out of mosques after Friday sermons, as pickup trucks with loudspeakers blared messages against Gillian Gibbons, the teacher who was sentenced Thursday to 15 days in prison and deportation. She avoided the more serious punishment of 40 lashes.

They massed in central Martyrs Square, outside the presidential palace, where hundreds of riot police were deployed, although they did not try to stop the rally.

"Shame, shame on the U.K.," protesters chanted.



Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071130/ap_on_re_af/sudan_b...

---

Hope the Brits will get her out of there ASAP

[MarkR1717]

1. Religion of Peace alert....

...death to all Teddy Bear namers.

[iamahaingttta]

2. I agree, hope they get her out...

...and fast!

However, I have to wonder what the hell was wrong with that lady's brain? Allowing her students to name a teddy bear Mohammad? I'm someone who will happily insult another culture's silliness, but for the most part I'll do it from the comfort of my keyboard. Frankly, if I were dumb enough to do something like that in a place like the Sudan, I would expect to lose my head. Stupid lady, if you ask me...

[Anarcho-Socialist]

5. I was unaware of the teddy bear naming conventions in the Koran

[LanternWaste]

121. Not all insults...

Not all insults, denegrations, villifications, mockeries, etc. are listed in any one religions holy books. Many are implied. Many are interpreted.

That may be why you're not aware of it. Unless you were simply being clever...

[LeftishBrit]

45. What happened is that she asked for names for the teddybear...

and one of the children, who was called Mohammad, suggested that they name it after him. No insult was intended. I find it hard to understand why it's all right to give the name to a child but not a toy, and I don't think that there's anything in standard Muslim theology which is explicit on the subject.

I don't think she was stupid at all (unless you think it's stupid for a foreigner to go and work in a place with such an oppressive regime as Sudan)>

[Scairp]

105. I haven't read too much about this

I did wonder what she was doing there at all. I'm sure all she intended to do was teach the children how to read and write, but it is one of the most dangerous countries in the world, and even more so for Westerners. I just don't think that Western workers should be going there at all at this point. It's far too hazardous.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Eurobabe]

4. This is not the Islam that anyone would want to

be associated with...these nutbags are about as crazy as the fundies on the right!

[Yupster]

8. Book suggestion

I suggest to anyone wondering about women's rights in Islamic countries the book "Infidel," by Ayaan Hirsi Ali.

She was on CNN last night commenting about this case. You don't see her much as she has had 24 hour protection since her friend Theo Van Goah was murdered and a note threatening her life was stabbed into his chest.

[Xithras]

56. Here's another book for those interested in this sort of thing

"Inside the Jihad" by Omar Nasiri. He was a Moroccan spy who infiltrated the Afghani training camps for the British and French. Basically, his view (and he is a Muslim) is that these types of people aren't religious at all (and he documents multiple instances where people willingly ignored religious tenet in the name of religion), but that they're simply thugs who use religion as a way to hurt people and exert power over others. Many of the so-called "Islamic Fundamentalist" terrorist types he was dealing with showed little or no knowledge of the religion at all...they simply wanted to hurt people, and their imam's gave them a way to do so.

And for what it's worth, there is nothing in the Koran that would make teddy bear's evil, or which makes naming one Mohammad an act of disrespect. These people simply hate Britain, and see killing her as a way to strike at the British.

[Mr_Monday]

80. Author (of the book) works for American Enterprise Institute. nt

[donheld]

129. That explains a whole lot

thanks for that tip.

[Yupster]

9. Book suggestion

I suggest to anyone wondering about women's rights in Islamic countries the book "Infidel," by Ayaan Hirsi Ali.

She was on CNN last night commenting about this case. You don't see her much as she has had 24 hour protection since her friend Theo Van Goah was murdered and a note threatening her life was stabbed into his chest.

(On edit - I guess it was such a good book, I should recommend it twice. Sorry for duplicate post)

[northernsoul]

58. Not just the status of women in Muslim countries

But Ali also exposes the extraordinary danger faced by Muslims anywhere on earth who have the temerity to exercise their personal consciences and part ways with the religion that has likely been foisted upon them since birth.

Learn more:
http://www.apostatesofislam.com /
http://atheism.about.com/b/2007/03/04/muslims-threateni...
http://www.ex-muslim.org.uk/

[winter999]

14. I've never seen our fundies taking to the street demanding an

execution of a teacher for naming a toy. I'll take our fundies over their fundies any day. Better still, have a world without fundies!

[leftynyc]

19. Our fundies have nothing

on these people. Unless you've heard about where people are being put in jail or threatening with getting lashed for naming a stuffed animal something they didn't like. Your comparison is out and out bullshit.

[karlrschneider]

29. Plenty of "our" fundies have called for executing gay people.

Maybe you missed that little tidbit.

[INDIA]

32. Really? When? Which fundamentalist Christian leader...

has out and out called for the execution of gay people, which is actually occuring and state sponsored in Iran and Saudi Arabia.

Do tell...

[karlrschneider]

35. You are shitting me, aren't you?

http://www.religioustolerance.org/reconstr.htm

[INDIA]

48. Interesting link. Thanks. Sound like pretty rotten people.

..although I would guesstimate the percentage of true Dominionists in the US is somewhere around .001%, and they have been pretty darn quiet, no killings, bombings, riots or demands for the imprisonment and lashing of English schoolteachers. That's the problem I see with the comparison. Fundamentalist muslims probably number in the millions...unfortunately.

[closeupready]

62. DO they? Or are you just making that figure up?

n/t

[BushOut06]

65. It might be accurate

It's a matter of percentages. I don't have any figures in front of me, but let's for sake of argument say that there are 1 billion Muslims in the world. If only 1/2% of them are "extremist fundamentalists" like the Taliban and these people in the Sudan, that would still be 5 million. A sizable number to be sure, but still a very distinct minority.

[closeupready]

67. Perhaps in a strict sense. I've traveled a lot in my life, and I've been acquainted with hundreds

of muslims from all over, and the percentage of those I've known whom I would characterize as fundamentalist is not especially remarkable, IMO, though I have met some scary people like that.

[BushOut06]

68. Well-behaved moderates rarely make the news

Which headline are you more likely to read or see in the news?

"Muslim extremists demand execution of Briton"

or

"Muslim clerics denounce extremism in Sudan"

[closeupready]

70. Sadly, you're correct. What's that saying, "if it bleeds, it leads" because violence is more intere

interesting than peace.

[INDIA]

71. Do the math...

I would argue that anybody thinks that suicide bombings against civilian targets in defense of Islam are justifiable, is definitely a fundamentalist.

http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?ReportID=253


Lower percentages in European countries, higher in the ME Africa and Asia. In Britain alone, where there are approximately 1 million Muslims, there are about 250,000 muslims who believe this, in at least rare situations. That's scary.

I've seen other polls of British muslims where around 8% (80,000) believe that the London Underground bombings were justifiable. That's scary, especially considering muslims in countries like Britain aren't half as extreme in their views as ME muslims.

[Zhade]

83. The only difference is one of degree.

The same motivations led by certainty in unproven myths are present in all 'revealed' religion.

I sure hope your number is right, but I fear there are a lot more sympathetic to that number than we might know.

[leftynyc]

33. Then you will have no problem providing a

link please. I think I would have noticed is thousands of Christians came pouring out of their churches with clubs and knives calling for the execution of anyone.

[karlrschneider]

36. They are only slightly less public about it

http://www.religioustolerance.org/reconstr.htm

[leftynyc]

52. Slightly less public???

If you stop 10 people on any city street, just how many would have heard of these people let alone had to watch them take to the streets demanding the execution of someone. There is just no comparison and after letting such comparisons slide for a long time, I decided I couldn't in good conscience do that anymore.

[indigo32]

57. amen

"letting such comparisons slide for a long time, I decided I couldn't in good conscience do that anymore. "

definitely agreed

[karlrschneider]

74. Obviously these kinds of cowards are less likely to admit their insanity on a public street

(because they -are- cowards...the kinds of people who shoot abortion doctors from the bushes at night, for example)...it doesn't mean they are any less dangerous.

[leftynyc]

86. Isn't that the point?

Did the Sudanese government intervene in this at all? If something like that happened in the US,just how long do you think it would go on? Demanding an execution?!! For naming a teddy bear?? You can turn yourself into a pretzel defending the comparison, it's still bullshit. I have never heard of the people in the link above and I live in a city of 7 million people. There's a group of people in South Carolina (maybe it's the same group) that wants to start their own state/country that uses only the bible as their law. Just how far do you think their going to get?

[AlanAdam]

89. I agree ...

I seldom post on these issues anymore because any criticism of scary Muslim behavior such as the incident in Sudan invariably draws the responses that "our Christian fundies are just as scary as theirs." When I see these kind of posts I just say to myself, "why do I even bother leaving the Lounge." Sigh.

[ohio2007]

115. your site is biased. Do they fear offending Islam ?

from the Muslim link;
In addition to the above, we have short passages on:

Virgin birth of Jesus (pbuh)
Jesus' (pbuh) sinlessness

http://www.religioustolerance.org/islam.htm

and from the Christian section; mention the name Jesus there is no (pbuh)

talk about CYA

[boricua79]

37. let me know when you see more than 100 of them in one place...

brandishing axes, knives, and clubs.

One fundie or two calling for this non-sense doesn't scare me...

A herd of 100 or more doing this...now we have a problem.

Last time I remember, this type of "witchhunting" died out in the Western world. We've evolved from burning witches or hanging blacks from trees. Could it happen again once or twice...sure. But the mass practice has been eliminated.

These people have one of these "go to mosque, attend a witchhunt" special every goddamn week in a different part of the world. If it isn't in Pakistan one day, it's in Sudan. If it isn't in Sudan one day, it's in Iraq. If it isn't in Iraq, it's in Western Europe...always calling for someone to get hung from a tree because they drew a cartoon, wrote an article, or allowed a Muslim kid to bond with their teddy bear by allowing THEM to call the bear the most honored name in Islam, Muhammad.

Where's the freaking dishonor there!?

I'm sick of reading these stories, I tell you. I'm SO sick of reading them...

[karlrschneider]

39. I'm sick and tired of religion of every flavor. They are all collective insanity.

The worst institutions ever imagined let alone implemented...ever.

[boricua79]

41. i agree 100%...

but I reserve special scorn for "the religion of peace"...

Islam....100% proof and aged since before Medieval times....and not a day more modern.

[LanternWaste]

123. Not only reigions, but all philosophies...

Not only religions, but all philosophies.

[ohio2007]

54. You must be Iranian where you like to round up gays and

hang them in public

[karlrschneider]

76. Did you mean to reply to -me- with that?

[LanternWaste]

122. The mere opinions of "our" fundies aside,...

The mere opinions of "our" fundies aside, have any of those exceuctions gone forward by the state? Have there even been any lawsuits agaionst a person for being gay and calling for his execution? Have "our" fundies called for and been successful in having a gay person imprisoned by the law and within the law for no other reason than being gay?

[Eurobabe]

77. All I am saying is there are freaks on both side of the

aisle.

[LeftishBrit]

46. As crazy as the fundies on the right? They ARE fundies on the right!

[kysrsoze]

107. And when it comes down to it, REALLY do different either

These fringe groups both hate everyone else, treat women like shit and hide behind some supposed piety when they spew their uneducated, hateful opinions.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JCMach1]

25. Please, these are the same people that brough you Darfur

you expected better?

But don't confuse them with the rest of the Muslim world...

[mainer]

7. Note to all trying-to-do-gooders in the Sudan

Get out. Get out now. That country is lost, and you might as well pack up and head for home and leave it to the insane inhabitants.

Incidents like this make me think that if it weren't for oil and the constant pressure to protect Israel, we'd be much better off just walling ourselves off from the region.

[ohio2007]

92. why, that would be China. The bad guys demand the Chines military leave

More than 130 Chinese engineers arrived in south Darfur's capital Nyala on Saturday to pave the way for a 26,000-strong United Nations-African Union hybrid force
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/0B011888-A6D4-4E...
Don't worry, over the next several week, our media talking heads will make sense of it allfor us.

http://www.theonion.com/content/video/how_can_we_raise_...

[Truthy Nessy]

10. This is not a good sign for peace

I am afraid this incident and the hateful reaction of the people in Sudan on this incident will only make Americans and other westerners hate Muslims more now. Even myself feels fear in these people when before I did not. I can see how many Americans will believe that all Muslims wish to kill non-believers. The Sudan government should be deporting this woman right now for her safty. I also think that there will be safty concerns for those non muslims in that country now.

[winter999]

15. This incident doesn't make me hate the radial islamists any more.

It just confirms my hatred.

[Marrah_G]

55. Why would they care about HER safety?

They do not give a rats ass about THEIR own women being raped, murder and mutilated. Their women are worth NOTHING to these types people. Religion gives them an excuse to act like rabid animals, murdering men, women and children and ENJOYING doing it. Killing off the Africans in the country, raping their women publicly so no man will ever marry her or imregnante her with another child they consider unworthy of life. Even when the killing stops it will take many generations to heal the scars of that cursed place.

Every government on the planet should be recalling their aid workers from that place.

[leftynyc]

87. Very eloquent

To compare these people with our fundies is so dishonest...it makes the comparer look ridiculous.

[Crayson]

11. The world has to learn,every is allowed their believes, but isn't entiteled to force it onto others

I DON'T insult ANY religion.
Because I don't believe in any religion.
Religions don't exist, therefor I can't insult any.

I don't care who believes what.
But noone gets to forbid me anything based on THEIR believes!
And THIS I'll defend die hard.

[northernsoul]

59. Sadly, Chrisitiantiy and Islam do not share your persceptive

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_islam#Violenc...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_by_Christians

[ohio2007]

113. Examples of violence towards of contemporary critics of Islam

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_islam#Violenc...
didn't exactly have to dig into ancient past to find examples

[Turbineguy]

12. What we really need to do

in these countries is rescue the non-nutbags. It would save time.

[Homer Wells]

13. If this is Radical Islamic policy

then every parent in the Islamic community who named their child Mohammad should be summarily executed for daring to blaspheme. This would eliminate a good half the population.

Crazy!!

[winter999]

16. I wonder why Amnesty International hasn't picked this up yet.

Isn't this right up their alley?

[leftynyc]

20. You would think so wouldn't you?

I'm hearing crickets.

[muriel_volestrangler]

26. Google is your friend

Far more reliable than crickets:

MIKE BLAKEMORE, AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL

The sentence is a mockery of justice and Amnesty International consider Gillian to be a prisoner of conscience.

She should be immediately and unconditionally released.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7119917.stm

[leftynyc]

34. Thanks for the info (eom)

[LeftishBrit]

43. They have...

There have been protests from Amnesty International and from Fair Trials International, as well as from British religious leaders, of whom the most relevant is Dr. Bari, the chair of the British Council of Muslims.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7119917.stm

The Khartoum International Centre for Human Rights have also picked it up.

I expect and certainly HOPE that, with all the international pressures, she will soon be released unharmed; and that henceforth Brits/ other foreigners will think three or four times before taking any sort of job in Sudan. Unfortunately, the Sudanese people are stuck there with their horrendous government and laws. It's a true nightmare - the government (and some of the people) are certainly xenophobic, but in addition, the government are extremely oppressive toward their own people.

[SyntaxError]

79. I'm pretty sure they have. I recall reading a quote from them on this subject.

[closeupready]

17. Yet, what happens when Ann Coulter advocates invading their countries and killing their leaders

and converting them all to Christianity? Her books become bestsellers and she gets invited to speak on Today with Matt Lauer. Pretty rich.

[leftynyc]

21. Let me know when that skank

has the power to put people in jail or invade a country. She's annoying, like a fly buzzing around your head, nothing more.

[closeupready]

22. None of these demonstrators has that power either.

n/t

[boricua79]

31. actually...

the massacres of Tutsis by Hutus started out by regular people like this bunch...being agitated by regular radio broadcasters, like our Rush Limbaughs.

Regular people can cause massacres too...

[closeupready]

61. True.

n/t

[leftynyc]

38. Forget the demonstrators

First the GOVERNMENT sentenced her to lashings. Then to prison in a shithole followed by deportation. Let me know when the skank has power to do anything but run her disgusting mouth.

[ohio2007]

111. .And feminist groups like NOW say "no comment" ...whats up with that stand ?

what kind of a sexual position do the project by ignoring womens rights in a male dominated authoritarian society that has women 'submitting' to their will?

[LeftishBrit]

118. There are a number of concerned organizations

Amnesty International has been taking up the issue of women's - and general human - rights in the Sudan for some time.

The Women's International League for Peace and Freedom has a number of links to organizations campaigning for women's rights in Sudan.

www.peacewomen.org/news/sources/index.html

There is a Sudan Human Rights Organization, which campaigns over women's rights and other human rights issues.

www.shro-cairo.org

I have come across a recently-established organization, the South Sudan Women's Empowerment Network.

www.sswen.org

[Swede]

18. I hope the authorities quietly sneak her out back to Britain.

This is insane.

[ohio2007]

98. Deal$ are being offered by Briti$h authoritie$

Money will get her out.

that$ what grea$e$ the powerfull ju$tice $y$tem in $udan.


all under the table of course. M$M wants a happy ending to this story.


and we all lived happily ever after
/sarc

[Wise Doubter]

23. I once had a Muhammad doll as a kid.....

No one wanted to kill me...




... or did they ?

[boricua79]

42. LOL

thanks for the humor!

I'm fuming at this story and read this right in the middle of my anger.

[JCMach1]

24. From the Sudanese brain-trust that brought you Darfur...

Suppose for them, this would be a light comedy...

[Name removed]

27. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RamboLiberal]

28. Thousands Rally Against 'Teddy' Teacher

Source: ABC News

Thousands of Sudanese, many armed with clubs and knives, rallied Friday in a central square and demanded the execution of a British teacher convicted of insulting Islam for allowing her students to name a teddy bear "Muhammad." The protesters streamed out of mosques after Friday sermons, as pickup trucks with loudspeakers blared messages against Gillian Gibbons, the teacher who was sentenced Thursday to 15 days in prison and deportation. She avoided the more serious punishment of 40 lashes. They massed in central Martyrs Square, outside the presidential palace, where hundreds of riot police were deployed, although they did not try to stop the rally. "Shame, shame on the U.K.," protesters chanted. They called for Gibbons' execution, saying, "No tolerance: Execution," and "Kill her, kill her by firing squad."

The women's prison where Gibbons is being held is far from the site. Unity High School, which is closer by in central Khartoum, is under heavy security protection. The protest arose despite vows by Sudanese security officials the day before, during Gibbons' trial, that threatened demonstrations after Friday prayers would not take place. Some of the protesters carried green banners with the name of the Society for Support of the Prophet Muhammad, a previously unknown group. Many protesters carried clubs, knives and axes - but not automatic weapons, which some have brandished at past government-condoned demonstrations. That suggested Friday's rally was not organized by the government. A Muslim cleric at Khartoum's main Martyrs Mosque denounced Gibbons during one sermon, saying she intentionally insulted Islam. He did not call for protests, however. "Imprisoning this lady does not satisfy the thirst of Muslims in Sudan."

Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=393534...

---

Hope Gibbons gets safely out of Sudan.

[Darth_Kitten]

132. Shame, SHAME UK, but don't stop sending those cheques........

n/t

[boricua79]

30. of course, it's just a minority...

and the Muslim world is as enlightened as the Western one....

never mind the Enlightenment...never mind the Reformation...never mind seperation of church and state...never mind the ideas of Locke, Rousseau, Marx, etc....never mind the Civil Rights Movement and the End of Slavery...never mind the women's suffrage movement...never mind the Sexual Revolution...never mind the Feminist movement...never mind the Workers/Union movement...

never mind all that...they're on the same square as we are in this game of Chutes and Ladders...

SURE.....

[BushOut06]

53. You can always trust stories like this to bring out anti-Islam bias

Nice way to paint with a broad brush there, pal. Yes, it IS only a minority of Muslims that act this way - they are, however, quite vocal, so they get a lot of media attention.

Would it be fair to judge all Christians based on the assholes who picket funerals, the ones who advocate murdering abortion doctors, and who believe that homosexuality should be stomped out?

[northernsoul]

60. I am biased against any dogma that calls for a person to die

for the high crime of naming a stuffed animal. Call me crazy.

[BushOut06]

64. If you can find in the Koran where it calls for that, show me

You have a few nutjobs, extremists, etc whose interpretation of the Koran calls for that.

In case you haven't noticed, there are quite a few Muslims who are horrified at what is going on in the Sudan.

Again, you can find passages in the Bible where it commands all sorts of sinners to be stoned to death. As such, there are a few extremist Christians who would love to see homosexuality punishable by death. Does this mean that ALL Christians are that way?

I'm no friend of organized religion - but I also don't believe in using a broad brush either.

[ohio2007]

97. looking for a link to your comment of

In case you haven't noticed, there are quite a few Muslims who are horrified at what is going on in the Sudan.


Care to post it ?


You should find at least 10 possible news links from around the world, not US generated sources but voices from the real majority nations

I couldn't.

[boricua79]

128. don't really have the time to research the koran

but when I did read it, I seem to recall some passages that talked about harsh retribution for "blaspheming" against Allah and his prophet, which is what these people believe she did.

Can a more Islamic-educated DUer help me out with a passage. I wouldn't know WHERE to start looking in the Koran.

[boricua79]

126. agreed.

and right now, if I had to rate the religions, Islam is on the high list of scorn.

Doesn't mean I ignore or forget that the others do it to (or used to do it more frequently, such as Christianity under the Inquisition and Crusades).

But, I'm concerned about Islam now. I support an Enlightenment and Reformation stage for Islam.

[ohio2007]

95. Still waiting for the muslim clerics strongly worded reaction against these demands ?

No broad brush of denouncement yet after six days from leading mullahs,Muslim leaders ?

hmmmmm

[boricua79]

127. don't hold your breath...

chances are, the clerics are inside that very same crowd of Frankenstein-style witchhunters.

Why expect anything better from some troglodyte, half-educated nitwit who happened to read the Koran and now thinks himself a "wiseman". Have you ever their "wise" decisions on matters?

glorifying a cleric is as rational as glorifying a Pirate-dressed follower of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

....

I take that back, o noodly one...I knew not what I said...

[boricua79]

125. let me know when 100 of those "assholes"

show up at the funerals with guns, knives, and sticks to call for the lynching of a person because they decided to name a doll "Jesus".

Come back when you're ready...

[nedbal]

106. boricua79 :yourock:

and the Muslim world is as enlightened as the Western one....

never mind the Enlightenment...never mind the Reformation...never mind seperation of church and state...never mind the ideas of Locke, Rousseau, Marx, etc.... etc.... etc.... etc.... etc.... etc.... etc.... etc.... etc.... etc.... etc.... etc.... etc.... etc.... etc....


never mind all that...they're on the same square as we are in this game of Chutes and Ladders...

SURE.....

boricua79 you are one of the few on DU that understands the 6th century stagnation of too much of the Muslim world

[Drunken Irishman]

40. Sometime I wonder if there is ever any hope for this world.

I hope this lady gets out safe.

[LeftishBrit]

44. Me too, and I certainly hope the same

Religion is fine; religious fundamentalism and theocracy are the source of an awful lot of the world's evils.

[ohio2007]

93. the children are our future.....

Follower: A religious student joins the protests

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/wor...

Their children are our future weather she gets out alive or not.

btw,

come to think of it, are any Muslim organizations anywhere around the world speaking out in the media strongly protesting what the locals are doing there? Any links to such stories?
speak now or forever hold your ROP

<crickets>
/sarc

[LeftishBrit]

101. Yes, British Council of Muslims has spoken out against this abuse..

so have some other Muslim groups.

www.ekklesia.co.uk/node/6393

I've never understood this whole concept of 'insulting' a religion, anyway. Surely if God/ Allah is all-powerful, then He should be above feeling insulted? But then I'm an atheist.

[ohio2007]

103. British muslims are the minority in the "crusader" land. they play "CYA"

I still have yet to see the Saudi,Syrian,Iranian or Egyptian MSM sources cover this story.......

The silent majority in those lands either nod with approval or are too embarrassed to admit they have to grow up and update their teachings of peace

[LeftishBrit]

108. Or are too afraid or too indoctrinated?

Those countries are dictatorships.

British Muslims are a minority; but also they're members of a multi-cultural democracy - not a theocratic dictatorship like Saudi Arabia or Iran.

[ohio2007]

112. I didn't see the official hose of Saud's MSM release a statement against the lashings... they are

only enforcing 'the law' in the land's of mohammad

http://www.arabnews.com /

As far as the melting pot assimilation projects in Britain;
there are sections in British cities where they have set up a duel court system that the majority of those enclaves have voted for.

This story will be forgotten soon enough.
Kind of like the church bombings and intimidation tactics used against 'non muslims' in these same regions years ago.
Or the hired hit men that chased non believer Africans from their villages and onto the welfare roles of the non believer countries that support the highly concentrated refugee camps made up of non believers.

If and when history repeats , stand by for the night of the broken glass against non believers that will also be discussed
and
duly ignored...
well, the UN will debate using the "G" word when they put together a strongly worded statement that must be agreeable to the same third world members where the chaos continues.

[muriel_volestrangler]

114. Link, please

"there are sections in British cities where they have set up a duel court system that the majority of those enclaves have voted for"

No, there aren't.

[ohio2007]

117. "small claims court " (google is our friend )

Some lawyers welcomed the advance of what has become known as "legal pluralism".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/20...


Do Sharia Courts Have a Role in British Life?
snip

"There is a system working perfectly in this country and we should not be creating conflict between the laws of the land and religious law," says Mohammed Raza, imam and executive secretary of London's Shariah Council. "That would lead to further conflicts, misunderstanding and confusion which is not going to help in developing an integrated society where we all wish to live peacefully and respectfully."


http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1566038,0...

don't want to be living in a "land of confusion" like France


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Blp73lJmL0s&mode=related...

[LeftishBrit]

119. I suppose any religious group can have its small arbitration 'courts' ..

Churches and synagogues do too - as of course on a much larger scale do professional organizations; but not for criminal cases, and the national legal courts are the ones in charge; and can overrule any such process. With the national legal system firmly in charge, I would hardly call this a 'dual court system', any more than the existence of professional councils that can arbitrate in certain situations. Even the imam whom you quote acknowledges that "There is a system working perfectly in this country and we should not be creating conflict between the laws of the land and religious law." And so may it always be! - for all religions (i.e. no James Dobsons either).

I should add that only 3% of British people are Muslims, and indeed only about one-third are affiliated with *any* religion. We're a very secular society.

'don't want to be living in a "land of confusion" like France'

I really don't know what you mean by this? France enforces secularism in public life far *more* than most countries. Neither Christians nor Muslims are allowed to publicly wear symbols of their faith, for example - which has led to complaints from both faiths, and accusations of interference with civil liberties, but is the extreme opposite of the sort of 'confusion' that seems to be implied here.

[muriel_volestrangler]

120. So, you link to something saying there aren't courts in enclaves

Instead:

Muslim communities in Britain have long turned to the Sharia council to settle such civil matters as property disputes and divorce battles, though their rulings are not legally binding. The system is much like that used by observant Jews, who regularly take civil matters to a Beth Din rabbinical court in north London, where they are resolved according to Jewish law.

No, that isn't a 'small claims court'. Those do make legally binding decisions. Instead, these are ways of settling disputes by arbitration, which both sides have to agree to start using before the case can go there. They do not apply to 'enclaves' in cities, and your incorrect statement that "the majority of those enclaves have voted for" makes it sound as if that means a minority in a district must use them too, against their will. Anyone (and it's only Muslims who would consider going to the council) can say "no, I don't want this dispute/divorce settled by that method - I'd rather use the law", in which case it goes to law courts instead.

[LeftishBrit]

116. The British do not have 'dual courts' in their cities.

Not true. And as I live in one city (Oxford) and have a lot of dealings with another (London) which both have fairly large Muslim populations, I would know if this were the case.

I'm a convinced secularist who detests theocracy in all its forms, but let's keep things accurate! In my experience most rumours of this sort stem from people who dislike immigrants of any sort, and will find or invent something to use against them. They invent other rumours about non-Muslim immigrants.

[muriel_volestrangler]

109. They also produced "Adam the Prayer Bear" a few years ago

which is a fairly good indication that they really do think that naming toy bears after prophets isn't a problem:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/tyne/roots/2003/11/ramadan.shtml

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/inayat_bunglawala/2...

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ronnykmarshall]

49. I'll second that.

I hope they get her and her family out of there.

[Sultana]

50. "Reminder to self"

Never go to Sudan. I hope she gets out safely and that the world community punish Sudan.

[backwoodsbob]

84. they just better pray..

they DON'T execute her.
Hell will break loose if they do

[ohio2007]

94. I very much doubt the POPE will call for "Jihad".

Who do you expect to will break all hell out?

LOL
Politicians with a strongly worded message at the UN ?

An op ed page story in the NYTimes ?

[ohio2007]

51. Sounds like a movie plot climax.......-> Will she fly off over the western Sahara or

will she be trapped with little hope of escaping "The Temple of DOOM"

Teddy bear teacher moved to secret location as thousands of Islamic fanatics demand her execution


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/wor...


What would Yogi Berra say?



ooops
guess to make such a movie appear acceptable and pc correct, the bad guys will have to look like white supremacists midgets controlling a south american banana republic

[customerserviceguy]

63. She's a scapegoat

the islammunist fundies in Sudan (wreaking much worse havoc in Darfur) cannot get to Britain to shoot the Queen, so they take it out on somebody who is trying to teach tolerance and understanding.

Some places in this world just have irredeemable idiots.

[BluePatriot]

66. ...

I don't know if it's sad or not that I popped in here to read and expected a few people to be defending this in some way. But I am pleasantly surprised at my fellow DUers for recognizing this for the insanity it is. It's a teddy bear, geez...

Now I will return to lurking...

[Crunchy Frog]

72. Nah, that's going on in another thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[brentspeak]

69. Savages

[ohio2007]

91. You think they should turn their anger to the real source of the problem->the CHILDREN that voted

the name MOHAMAD




wher did these nutcases get their education from ?

[JohnLocke]

73. Barbaric.

[mirror wall]

75. Fundamentalism is mainly a function of poverty.

It is not characteristic of any one religion inherently. There's some pretty crazy stuff in the Bible, too, that a few rabid people espouse here in the US. The people who are touting those views, however, are almost always poor and white. There is less religious fundamentalism amongst the indigenous populations of Europe beacause they are relatively affluent -and- have large, comfortable middle classes. Morocco is one of the most tolerant countries I've ever been to, even though it's 90some percent Islamic (the bombings you hear about there are due to sects based in Algeria mostly). This, I believe, is in large part because there is a large middle class.

[SyntaxError]

78. I think they're being a little bit unreasonable.

Some of the fundies over there make our fundies look like...hmmm... I dunno, think of something witty for me.

[ohio2007]

81. You mean, they are being "unbearable"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5Mmg_29kgo&feature=user

[Zhade]

82. And thus, the dangers of belief in uproven gods that can be "offended".

"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire.

[Socal31]

85. Although I find ALL religion comical,

anyone who compares our fundies to the Islamic assholes, is probably very dim. These are the same people who make sure to blame the US for EVERYTHING in every thread on here. Im wondering what people will have to bitch about once a Dem is in office in 09...

[leftynyc]

88. That will be interesting

When the right wing was saying the left hated America, I went apeshit. But I was soon enlightend just by this board (and other left based ones) - some people DO blame us for all the world's ills. So myopic. I wonder how it's explained that thousands are sneaking into our country every day along with those who come in legally. It's insane.

Are we perfect, of course not. No country is. I'd rather live here than anywhere and if I felt our country was actually in danger, I would pick up a gun and fight for it to the death.

[SyntaxError]

100. Why do you hate Canada?

[leftynyc]

102. Huh??? (eom)

[SyntaxError]

104. hehe

[ohio2007]

90. Since yesterday was friday...Anybody wonder what was being preached in the mosques? Tolerance?

'Kill her'


Protests took place in Khartoum following Friday prayers
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7121025.stm


Luckily for us, they only want the African Continent free of all crusader infidels

/sarc

[leaninglib]

96. Proving that all cultures are not equal.

The difference between putting a man on the moon and beheading the infidel correlates with the difference between advanced and primitive.

[ohio2007]

99. ..some are more equal then others....

koranimal farm

[Name removed]

110. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rodeodance]

124. my mind cannot comprehend this at all.

[allisonthegreat]

130. Thought she leftn/t

[LeftishBrit]

131. She's now been freed! (phew!)

[maddezmom]

133. locking, updated article here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...