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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 03:14 PM
Original message
Chavez warning opens Opec summit
Source: BBC

Chavez warning opens Opec summit

Chavez (r) and Iran's Mahmoud Ahmadinejad are staunch US critics
Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez warned oil prices could double if the US attacked Iran, as a key summit of oil exporters opened.

Mr Chavez told the summit of the Organisation of Petroleum Exporting Countries (Opec) the price of crude could reach $150 or even $200 a barrel.

Oil has been hitting record peaks of well over $90 a barrel as markets believe Opec will not boost production.

The Opec summit in Saudi Arabia is only the organisation's third in 47 years.




Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7100175.stm
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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
1. Biden threatens W with impeachment and Chavez with oil prices doubling
Okay George - your move.
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msongs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
2. chavez will benefit from an attack on iran, his bank accounts are waiting patiently nt
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NeedleCast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Yup
About the last thing Chavez wants is oil prices to go down.
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boricua79 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. i'm sure
Chavez would want oil prices higher for the benefit of his people....just like I would want to have an Acura tommorow. Doesn't mean I'm willing to hurt others or promote policies that hurt others in order to get my Acura, and I doubt Chavez is willing to hurt others or promote policies that hurt others to enrich Venezuela.
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SpikeTss Donating Member (308 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. Silly
Edited on Sun Nov-18-07 01:25 AM by SpikeTss
I suppose you have prove or even evidence, that Chavez enriches himself?

Then feel free to post this information here.

:eyes:

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Acadia Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
4. If that happens, Gas would be 6 to 10 a gallon and the whole
economy would come crashing down. I wonder if Chavez would like the USA more if our Senate and Congress had the balls to impeach this disaster we call a president.
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Bodhi BloodWave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. As far as i'm aware
Chavez likes the USA as he has offered discounted oil to a number of us cities unless I'm wrong(can't recall the exact specifics but it has been talked about here). He seriously does NOT like the bush administration tho it seems, or he could just like tweaking bush's nose(hard to tell at times)
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 02:42 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. I can locate the information later if you'd like, but off the top of my head, there were 16 states
getting a 40% heating oil discount last winter, and 163 Native American tribes who made these arrangements and secured less painful rates for the cold months.

Most DU'ers who read much are well aware of the generous gestures made by Venezuela IMMEDIATELY after Hurricane Katrina of all KINDS of assistance, in abundance. Bush completely blew them off, just as the oil company executives blew off the Democratic Congressmen and tribal leaders who approached them originally, seeking cheaper rates for their constituents who have trouble paying steep prices for heating during the winter, BEFORE they made arrangements with Venezuela.

These super-pigs left people with the impression it's apparently unamerican to ask U.S. oil men to help their fellow, needier Americans.

A bunch of Democratic Congressfolk were involved, starting with William Delahunt, from Boston, Jos Serrano from the Bronx, Joseph Kennedy, also from Massachusetts, Congressman Fattah, as the number of states grew to include Maine, New York, Vermont, New Hampshire, Connecticut, Delaware, Rhode Island, Pennsylvania, and the others came in the following year or two. (I think it's been three years by now.) Democratic governors and mayors (there was a Republican I've seen mentioned wandering around among them!) welcomed the assistance, and there were photos published in local papers showing the Congressmen rolling back their shirtsleeves and getting right in there when the first oil tanker trucks arrived to unload the first oil in their states, and, of course, get good photo ops in the bargain.

The only ones I've heard bitching and moaning about any of this are repulsive, twisted, self-centered, nasty Republicans who seem to want poor Americans to lie down and die if they can't afford full price for the warmth they need to survive the winter rather than to accept the generosity of a foreign oil company their mentally, spiritually defective right-wing pResident loathes.

At least 16 states, and 163 Native American tribes said "thank you" and meant it!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Here's an article I just located after starting this post, which explains how this program got started:
Last Updated: Wednesday, 7 December 2005, 12:05 GMT
New York gets Venezuela cheap oil

~snip~
In October, 12 Democratic US senators, including Hillary Rodham Clinton, urged chief executives of major oil companies to help with fuel assistance programmes run by the government.

The senators said that the only company to respond was Citgo, the US-based subsidiary of Petroleos de Venezuela (PDVSA) and the country's fourth-largest gasoline retailer.

(snip)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4505936.stm

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Bodhi BloodWave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 05:03 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. no need to do so on my account
but others here might like the information.

Props to you for your hard work regarding Chavez and related topics tho(if i see a topic made by you it gets priority as you tend to have very sensible things to say, and sourced to boot :) )
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. Found one fairly informative article, originally published in the Boston Globe,
which may help focus the picture:
Published on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 by the Boston Globe
Venezuela Plans More Oil Discounts
2 from Mass. play role in deal for region

by Susan Milligan

CARACAS - Leftist President Hugo Chavez of Venezuela said yesterday he would greatly expand the discounted home heating oil program he started last year for needy people in Massachusetts and other northeastern states.

Chavez, a firebrand populist who has clashed repeatedly with President Bush, said in an interview with the Globe that he would extend the program for next year and increase the amount of cheaper oil available. Former US representative Joseph P. Kennedy II, who was among a group that negotiated the deal with Chavez, said customers would have more direct access to the heating oil and would be subject to looser eligibility rules.

Chavez made the pledge in an interview after meeting with a group including Representative William D. Delahunt, Democrat of Quincy, and Kennedy, who is now chairman of Citizens Energy, a nonprofit Massachusetts group. The two had played a key role in negotiating the initial deal with Chavez last year that sent 12 million gallons of reduced-cost heating oil to Bay Staters this winter, which assisted about 45,000 needy families. Several other states negotiated similar deals.
(snip)

This past winter, Venezuela made 9 million gallons of heating fuel available to Massachusetts families, and another 3 million to institutions that serve the poor. Families got a 200-gallon shipment -- enough to last about three weeks -- for about $276, which means a savings of about $184. The discounted fuel was available through the Citizens Energy nonprofit organization to families eligible for federal fuel oil assistance, which offers an annual subsidy of $550.

The expansion of the Venezuelan cut-rate oil offering is part of an effort to begin to repair US-Venezuelan relations after years of confrontation, Chavez said after his meeting with Delahunt, Kennedy and US Representative Gregory W. Meeks, a Democrat from Queens, N.Y.
(snip)

Under the ''second stage" of the program, the oil will be delivered more directly to consumers and the eligibility terms will be broadened, Kennedy said. Details and amounts of the fuel to be involved in the second phase were not disclosed.

Kennedy said he had written to every major company in the US oil business -- an industry now enjoying record profits -- and asked for discounted oil for the poor, but was turned down by all of them. Only Venezuela agreed to provide cut-rate home heating oil, he said.
(snip/...)
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0425-01.htm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
posted December 14, 2006 (January 1, 2007 issue)
Chvez's Citizen Diplomacy
Liza Featherstone

"A Kennedy!" The older ladies of Spofford Hills, a housing cooperative in the Hunts Point section of the South Bronx, are brandishing cameras, thrilled to see the son of Robert F. Kennedy outside their building on this radiantly sunny day just before Thanksgiving. It doesn't hurt that Joe Kennedy is also president of Citizens Energy, a nonprofit providing heating assistance to low-income Americans, and that he's here to make a fuel delivery to Spofford Hills. But the real star of the day--though absent--is someone even more famous: Hugo Chvez.

Through Joe Kennedy's organization, the government of Venezuela--and Citgo, a petroleum company in which that country owns a controlling share--provides heating oil to poor and working-class Americans at a 40 percent discount. The gathering in the Bronx celebrated the program's second year, as well as its expansion: This winter, Citizens Energy and Citgo expect to deliver more than 100 million gallons of oil to more than 400,000 households in sixteen states, more than doubling the scope of last year's petro-philanthropy. Beneficiaries also include 163 American Indian tribes, most of them in Alaska.

The program has come under fire from the American right for its association with Chvez, whom the Bush Administration has painted as a dictator and even a terrorist threat. Recent TV ads promoting it--in which Citizens Energy praises "our friends in Venezuela"--have particularly infuriated the likes of Fox's Sean Hannity and inflamed conservative talk-show hosts, who are calling for a boycott of Citgo. (According to Citgo president Felix Rodriguez, the boycott and conservative attacks have had no effect on the company's revenues so far.) But Citizens Energy spokesman Brian O'Connor says his organization has asked every major oil company and every OPEC nation to provide such assistance to poor Americans; Citgo and Venezuela have been the only ones to agree. "We are very much in solidarity with the people of Venezuela," says Blanca Ramirez, treasurer of Spofford Hills, which was taken over by residents after a landlord abandoned it in the late 1970s. "But in a way," she muses, "they are even more in solidarity with us."

Spofford Hills is depressingly located across the street from a juvenile prison. On this day, however, the mood was upbeat as a large green truck drove up to the building and began delivering winter heating oil, a gift likely to save each of the co-op's sixty-two families about $200 this winter. Like many poor Americans, especially in the country's northern regions, the residents of Spofford Hills--a mix of working people, the elderly and public-assistance recipients--have in recent years, with the soaring cost of fuel, struggled to stay warm during the chilly season. "Last winter there were days we had to go without heat and hot water," says Ramirez, who is the mother of a 4-year-old. "We couldn't afford it! We had to use space heaters and extra blankets--everybody tried to do the best they could." For the many elderly people in the building, the cold nights were a particular hardship. "I was afraid for her," Moryama Flores, a home attendant and building resident, says of her mother, who also lives in the building. "She was coughing a lot. She made many complaints." Says Ramirez, "This year, all these old people will probably not be suffering."
(snip/...)
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070101/featherstonev

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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
9. I saw a news item go by--and then get quickly drowned in the corporate news
monopoly river of forgetfulness--a couple of months ago, that China, Russia and I think India (but not Venezuela) held a meeting to discuss how to deal with the lawless, out-of-control, nuclear-armed bullies and warmongers in the White House. It was a short article--no hint of what their strategy might be. But I immediately thought that strategy #1 would be economic. And Chavez, who is more open than these other leaders, and says what he thinks, may be revealing a piece of the strategy, here. To wit: attack Iran and we will crash the U.S. economy (already teetering--part of the strategy?).

Notably, Chavez just signed a big oil deal with China, on Venezuela's behalf, which could well mean that Venezuela won't need their 15% or so of the U.S. oil market in the future. He also recently made a deal with Russia for rifles for the Venezuelan military (because the U.S. is insanely prohibiting arms deals with Venezuela, a democratic country--and, indeed, a far better democracy than the one we have hear). (We are going to PAY for the Bush Junta's nutso alienation of most of South America, where democratic governments and policies of social justice are flourishing!) In any case, Chavez, having recently had dealings with both China and Russia, may be privy to their "containment" strategy regarding Bush/Cheney and their obsession with expanding the disastrous war in the Middle East. Iran's security is particularly essential to China, which gets much of its oil there, and is running a 'tanker economy' (fuel in, trinkets out). But it is also vital to Russia, for its oil. (Also, the Bushites have sorely provoked and threatened Russia, with new missile emplacements in middle Europe, on Russia's border.)

This is probably why both China and Russia seem to have zero concern about Iran getting nuclear weapons, and may even want them to. Iran acquiring a nuke defense would create "detente" in the Middle East (like the "detente" in the Cold War--both sides have nukes, less chance anyone will use them). China and Russia want STABILITY in the Middle East. Bush/Cheney do not. They want war. They want to take over Iran's oil fields by force, as they have done Iraq's. They don't want a level playing field for China, Russia, South America or anyone else. They want all the marbles.

Iran has exhibited no territorial ambitions, and has invaded no one. But they now have the entire U.S. military on their border, and chaos and disaster in their neighbor state, Iraq. They are shit scared. They have been extremely careful NOT to get drawn into a "Gulf of Tonkin"-type incident with the U.S. (Remember the UK sailor thing last year, during our elections? They couldn't give those sailors back fast enough, with flowers and chocolates to their families.) (...just kidding--but you get my point). Anyway, China and Russia seem to know that a nuclear Iran is not a threat to anybody. They certainly would act decisively to DENY Iran nuclear weapons capability, if they thought it was. A nuclear Iran threatening Israel, for instance, would create INSTABILITY, and, if nukes were exchanged, massive disorder, on an unprecedented scale. Iranian oil is a linchpin of their economies. They wouldn't risk that. THEY clearly believe that Iran's intentions are defensive--aimed at stability, not instability. The REAL de-stabilizer in the Middle East is the U.S., with its catastrophe in Iraq, and its continual saber-rattling against Iran, with no justification whatsoever.

Indeed, Bush/Cheney aggression against Iran could be seen as a proxy war against China and Russia, like Vietnam, but their threats against Iran are even more direct threats against China and Russia than Vietnam was. Vietnam, which just wanted independence, got caught in the Cold War vise (two million people slaughtered in Southeast Asia, before it was over). Iran is somewhat similar, except that it is providing an essential commodity to China and Russia. The threat of world war, triggered by a U.S. attack on Iran, is even more serious than it was with the Vietnam War. What Russia and China seem to be aiming at is a "balance of power"--stopping U.S. aggression in the Middle East, and permitting Iran to seek nuclear power--and potentially nuclear weapons--to even things out, vis a vis U.S./Israel.

China has perhaps the most formidable weapon to deter U.S. aggression against Iran, and to punish the U.S. if it attacks Iran--they own a load of U.S. debt paper. China, Russia, and countries like Venezuela and India--and Iran itself--acting in concert, can create powerful deterrence or punishment. And if Iran gets nukes--and has its own defense against the U.S. (in addition to conventional defense)--then China doesn't have to go too far, in harming its own U.S. markets, as a deterrent to a U.S. attack on Iran. Another factor in this situation is the rise of South America as a force in world politics. A South America united in a South American "Common Market," with a common currency, and with South Americans in control of their own oil, gas, minerals and other resources (where things are headed), could conceivably replace the U.S. as a market for Chinese goods, among other things. In any case, clearly, the world is re-aligning itself, to our detriment, in response to the worst, most criminal, most irresponsible regime in Washington that we have ever suffered.

Some of the developments in reaction to the Bush Junta are good. Democracy in South America, at long last, is good. South Americans benefiting from their own resources, at long last, is good. And non-violent resistance to U.S. aggression (using economic tools) on the part of nuclear powers is good. Stability in the Middle East is good--even if it's the stability of "detente" (far better than war). But the economic fallout on ordinary Americans will not be good. As so often happens with fascist regimes, the poor take the hit.

And stopping the U.S. bully--an entity that is no longer in the control of the American people, in any way, and whose political establishment has agreed to rotten, criminal, thieving, warmongering leadership--is good. WE can't stop them. What an irony that our former "enemies"--Russia and China, whose governments are very undemocratic--may be the ones doing so.
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Strelnikov_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
11. Chavez is wrong
An attack on Iran will lead to loss of 50% of the worlds petroleum export market, reducing said market from ~41 Mbbl/dy to ~21 Mbbl/dy.

Petroleum will be priceless, with critical demand far outstripping supply.

The US economy will go into recession, or worse. Shortages in fuel and food will occur in short order, as the US imports over 12 Mbbl/dy, and will be bidding using the 'all powerful dollar' against countries with significant export capacity in finished goods in what remains of the worlds export market.

No, Hugo seems to be giving us the rose colored glasses version.


Vlad, on the other hand, is excited. Kinda like some Anton Chigurh stalking the petrodollar.
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Solar_Power Donating Member (422 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
13. Hugo will say anything to drive up the "fear premium"
which is already at $30/barrel
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. "Fear premium." So odd. I'm sure you have some excellent material to link
which would prove he indulges in aimless fear-mongering, and that you'll post it to inform DU'ers.

Looking forward to reading through all that information you're bound to post to give substance to your claim.
We need to know what's behind it all, will appreciate checking back later to find out more about it.

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