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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 09:03 AM
Original message
Grim climate change report prompts UN call for 'breakthrough' [action]
Source: afp




Grim climate change report prompts UN call for 'breakthrough'

by Marlowe Hood
56 minutes ago



VALENCIA, Spain (AFP) - The world's top scientific authority on climate change published on Saturday its starkest warning yet, declaring that the impact of global warming could be "abrupt or irreversible" and no country would be spared.



UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon seized on the report by the Nobel-winning Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) to demand that politicians next month smash the deadlock on tackling the greenhouse-gas peril.

The historic report "has set the stage for a real breakthrough," said Ban, referring to a key conference running on the Indonesian island of Bali from December 3-14.

"We cannot afford to leave Bali without such a breakthrough," he said, as he described climate change as the "defining challenge of our age."



Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20071117/sc_afp/unclimatewa...





with the US kicking trillions into a bottomless pit in irag--i do not see the US doing much at all.
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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
1. The report will be dismissed and ridiculed by those who get their science from Rush/Bush.
I feel very fortunate to have been born when I was, in the early 1950s. I won't live long enough to see the very worst of what is to come; another 20-30 years will give only a hint. It just doesn't seem to matter how dire credible reports project the future to be. The Right always finds some clown to dust off and haul before a camera claiming that global warming is a "hoax." Then the media reports on the "controversy," and we move on to stuff like should intelligent design be taught in schools?
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. don't be such a pessimist!
you may very well get to see at least some of the 'very worst'...it seems that every new report speeds up the timetable a little more than the one before it...things might be happening a LOT quicker than everyone has been led to believe- and the powers that be are probably fully aware of the actual pace of our extinction. (after all- the bfee has to warm things up down here pronto!, to prepare the earth for for the inter-galactic arrival of their shape-shifting reptilian brethren, and the ultimate conquest and colonization of the planet...http://www.davidickebooks.co.uk/index.php?act=viewProd&... )

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stubtoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
2. It will take individual action as well as state action.
'"We need a new ethic by which every human being realises the importance of the challenge we are facing and starts to take action through changes in lifestyle and attitude," said IPCC Chairman Rajendra Pachauri.'

I think that is what Al Gore was talking about too. If the people lead, the leaders will follow.
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. it's just too late.
even if the human race halted ALL carbon output TODAY- the earth would continue to warm for at least 4 more decades. (and we aren't going to stop carbon output anytime soon- it's still going UP)
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stubtoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. It IS too late to halt the warming. We needed to act decades ago
if we were to have any chance of circumventing the inevitable. But it's still imperative we each work to cut emissions and shrink our carbon footprint. To throw up our hands and say "oh well" is unconscionable and an affront to coming generations.
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. i don't have any kids or grandkids to answer to anyway...
but who said anything about throwing up our hands and saying "oh well" ??
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stubtoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. Oh, sorry QuestionAll.
That was pure stubtoe, talkin' and rantin'. Didn't mean to imply you at all.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. We may not be able to save our species --- but we may save the planet, still ---
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. the planet isn't going anywhere...
and once it's shook us off- it will heal. it's been through worse.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Unfortunately, Global Warming IS also a threat to the planet ---
it may not keep turning ---

Of course, this is not being mentioned along with the information on GW . . .
but it is unfortunately true.

And I think we have a decision to make here about what our concerns really are --
and whether we are willing to make sacrifices merely to save the planet.

I once believed as you do that the planet is indestructible -- but that is not necesarily true.

Overpopulation of the planet alone is a huge stress, but there are many other stresses compounding with Global Warming --- and generally accruing from human stupidity --

One example of that is the dams and reservoirs our Army Corps of Engineers built over the past 50-60 years . . . "Is impacting the rotation of the earth."

That's from an article in the front section of the NY Times about 15 years ago ---

Needless to say, dismantling of these dams has frequently been discussed for many other valid reasons.


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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
6. "Z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z" - Commander AWOL
Edited on Sat Nov-17-07 11:57 AM by SpiralHawk
"Please don't bother us republicon homelanders with that fact-based shit. We are hard at work. We have taspayer money to squander on our corrupt republicon cronies.."

- Commander AWOL

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balantz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
8. That's alright,
parts of Paraguay will probably boast fine weather for some time. I hear you have to be an oil baron these days to buy property there! Is that where Hitler's ashes were scattered?
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
9. Key Findings of UN Scientific Report
Source: ap



Key Findings of UN Scientific Report
By The Associated Press

November 17, 2007 12:39 PM EST


The following are some key findings in a report issued Saturday by the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change:

- Global warming is "unequivocal." Temperatures have risen 1.3 degrees Fahrenheit in the last 100 years. Eleven of the last 12 years are among the warmest since 1850. Sea levels have gone up by an average seven-tenths of an inch per year since 1961.

- About 20 percent to 30 percent of all plant and animal species face the risk of extinction if temperatures increase by 2.7 degrees Fahrenheit. If the thermometer rises by 6.3 degrees Fahrenheit, between 40 to 70 percent of species could disappear.

- Human activity is largely responsible for warming. Global emissions of greenhouse gases grew 70 percent from 1970 to 2004. The concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is far higher than the natural range over the last 650,000 years.

- Climate change will affect poor countries most, but will be felt everywhere. By 2020, 75 million to 250 million people in Africa will suffer water shortages, residents of Asia's large cities will be at great risk of river and coastal flooding, Europeans can expect extensive species loss, and North Americans will experience longer and hotter heat waves and greater competition for water..........

http://my.earthlink.net/article/top?guid=20071117/473e7...

Read more: http://my.earthlink.net/article/top?guid=20071117/473e7...
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. The key here is that it will affect poor countries most.
I want to site examples of frivolous American behavior. What's the point? I mean, nobody is going to change. A few people amount to nobody. A million Americans might change a lightbulb, or cause a Prius to be built. The majority will not change. Period. By the way, I'm one of them. There is only so much we can do, even if we try. Everything we do is associated with combustion in one way or another. Almost everything. Brush your teeth? That toothbrush was manufactured and shipped. The water was pumped and pressurized. Flush the toilet? Same thing. We've painted ourselves into a corner. Farmland is paved. But more than anything, people really don't give a rat's ass. Here's how I see it- Out of sight; Out of mind. Until the waters are rising, which will be way too late, people will continue their lives.

Now, good leadership will have an impact. I call it trickle down intelligence. But we have a dilemma. Just like when populations begin to decrease, and governments panic. It's happening in France right now. They're literally paying people to have kids. Or so I've heard. Growth is mandatory in a modern society. Money, money, money. But still, we can try to alleviate the situation. And with two billion people eyeing modern living, in India and China, we had better start doing something now. We should have started in 1970. But in case you've been living in a bubble, horsepower has been increasing, and lifestyles have been becoming more lavish. You don't want to know how many $100,000 driveways I've seen.
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reggie the dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. paid to have kids
It's not as if I was paid to have kids. The government just gives people money to buy things for their kids when they are born here in France. They do an evaluation of your household income and give you a sum of money as aid that cooresponds to your need for assistance. We make 30 000 euros per year after tax between my wife's salary and my own and they gave us 850 euros with the suggestion that the money was for clothing, furniture and other items for the baby. My wife will also get to spend 4 days in the hospital with the baby when it is born and we will not pay a single cent for the stay. But hey, what can I say, I now live in a country with a viable welfare state.
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Lisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 03:43 AM
Response to Reply #10
28. not only that, but poor countries/regions that had low emissions to begin with
The Impacts section of the report (Working Group II, downloadable here http://www.ipcc.ch / ) shows that Africa, for example, is going to be hit especially hard. Countries like Botswana, which have been trying so hard to develop their economies and avoid conflict, could be shoved back down the staircase it's taken them decades to climb. And meanwhile there are people in the G-8 (including my own country, Canada) who are claiming that it will only take "minor adaptation" to adjust to a warmer world, and that some areas that might actually benefit. Even if that part turns out to be true, it would just be another example of the rich taking from those who can least afford it.
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Chulanowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. This is one reason so many people don't care.
"- Global warming is "unequivocal." Temperatures have risen 1.3 degrees Fahrenheit in the last 100 years. Eleven of the last 12 years are among the warmest since 1850. Sea levels have gone up by an average seven-tenths of an inch per year since 1961."

That bolded part? That's all people will see from that line. They won't do the addition (for some reason many people think fraction conversion is difficult) and will just get stuck with an average sea-level rise of less than an inch. They won't see the "per year", they won't count the 46 years from the starting point. They'll just see seven-tenths of an inch, shrug their shoulders, and turn to the sports section.

It's a true statement on the report, but it's also very cautious. It would be just as accurate to say this:
"Sea levels have gone up by an average of nearly three feet (32.2 inches) since 1961."
it's the same statement, the same measurement, and it makes the total amount of sea level change very clear. People don't picture forty-six years worth of 7/10" increments - but they WILL picture sea levels rising by almost a full yardstick since the study started.

Also, there's the "temperatures have risen by 1.3 degrees" - there's really no way to convert that into layman mental picturing to convey its magnitude. But one degree is the difference between a snowcapped mountain and a killer mudslide.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
11. Nationalize America's OIL . .. put ELECTRIC CARS on the roads --- FAST --- !!!!
Nationalizing our oil --- and that was part of the JFK 1960 Democratic Platform --

and getting ELECTRIC CARS on our roads is the fastest response ---

We can replace all gas-guzzlers in five years --- or earlier

Subsidize both ends --- mfg and purchase.


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balantz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Good ideas.
I wasn't aware of that about Kennedy. It looks like another reason they had to murder him.
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. I didn't know that about Kennedy's platform!

It would explain a lot, afterall we once overthrew Iran's government because they were nationalizing their oil.
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
15. K&R, why isn't this post receiving more attention?!

It was the top headline story in the (online) NY Times! One of the major complaints in this report is that governments had doctored the facts from previous reports.

Impeachment would be a great first start in tackling this problem and would set a clear example for future administrations. Up to 1 million Iraqi citizens have been murdered because of our quest for oil, led by our unpopular Administration consisting of former oil and energy executives (Bush, Cheney, and Rice). This has got to end NOW and our screwed up priorities with respect to fossil fuels have got to be reversed.
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razzleberry Donating Member (877 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #15
24. because the same IPCC report has been released four times already
this release is number 5
of a planned release of ??.
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. My point was that this is making big headlines now....

and people are finally starting to pay attention. Have you noticed NBC's little green peacock?
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razzleberry Donating Member (877 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 02:56 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. the report is being dribbled out in sections ...
this is part 4 or 5,
out of a planned-total of ?


attention this section of the report gets,
well,
who knows.
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Lisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 03:48 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. I think this is the synthesis report (combines/summarizes the other 3)
Edited on Sun Nov-18-07 03:49 AM by Lisa
I seem to recall that they did this last time they issued their findings -- they put the highlights of the scientific background (Group 1), Impacts (Group 2), and Mitigation (Group 3) into a separate report, for the convenience of policymakers and others who just wanted the main ideas and supporting graphics. That was several years ago, and I recall buying it ... my boss borrowed it and hasn't returned it!

This time, I will just tell him to download his own copy.

http://www.ipcc.ch /


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gulfcoastliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
20. Too bad the dems don't use their majority to pass major climate legislation
and let the repukes veto it again and again. Instead, they keep pouring all our last resources into the military machine.
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. their corporate masters and overlords wouldn't like that...
bad for business, and all.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
23. We have to take control of our rnatural resources out of the hands of a few private families --- !!!
Edited on Sat Nov-17-07 09:02 PM by defendandprotect
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ronnie624 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 01:51 AM
Response to Original message
26. "abrupt or irreversible"
Climate changeis a problem that is, at last, both universal and personal for every human on the planet. Climate change makes moot past environmental issues precisely because it isn't about an obscure species or remote place. It's about us, and our fate. It is about the real possibility of the unraveling of modern civilization.
-Hal Clifford, Los Angeles Times

*******

One final component of the consequence discussion that needs to be directly addressed is the realistic possibility of profound rapid climate change. There exists numerous sleeping giants, specific natural aspects of the climate system which could set of powerful feedback loops on a very short time scale, meaning months or years. A few examples of these potential rapid change inducing feedback are as follows: methane hydrate destabilization, soils causing land biosphere to turn from absorber to emitter, the North Atlantic ocean conveyor belt shuts down, the Greenland ice cap melts, or the west Antarctic ice sheet slides into the sea, as well as other geographically specific events in vital locations such as the Amazon, the Tibetan plateau, and the Sahara.<42> While it is not the prerogative of this paper to go into each of these possible scenarios, each one is in fact backed by legitimate scientific evidence. The difference between these sleeping giants and other basic feedback loops becomes a matter of time and scale; the giants could develop far faster than humans can react to control them, or their impacts might be so large that there would be no possibility of an effective human counter effort. These may come across as outlandish doomsday forecasts and likely will not all come to fruition, however their presence alongside the litany of other trend-based effects creates a legitimate basis to prescribe a necessity of action to halt the contemporary warming trend.

<http://www.arlingtoninstitute.org/wbp/rapid-climate-cha... >
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