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Was Bin Laden's last video faked? Video analysts debate whether al-Qaida doctored the video

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antiimperialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 07:17 PM
Original message
Was Bin Laden's last video faked? Video analysts debate whether al-Qaida doctored the video
Source: MSNBC

When al-Qaidas media arm released its first Osama Bin Laden video in nearly three years, most of the media attention was focused on Bin Laden's beard. It appeared either dyed or perhaps even pasted on. He was ridiculed and a variety of theories were offered to explain it.

But now, there is a running debate among video analysts about whether al-Qaida faked the video altogether that rather than being new, the September 7 message may have been something recorded at the same time as his last video in October 2004 (and then released with new audio).


Read more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21530470 /



My suggestion is to remember that the CIA once wanted to tell us that this bald chubby guy was Lee Harvey Oswald in the Cuban consulate trying to contact communist Castro agents.


This is not a theory or a rumor. The CIA, when unable to stand by its lie, said they had made a mistake and mixed up Oswald photograph with this man's. Yes, the CIA wanted to paint Oswald (now dead after being shot the day after JFK died) as a Fidel Castro agent who contacted Cuban and Soviet intelligence as part of a Red plot.

If one entity benefits from perpetuating the Bin Laden boogey man it is US intelligence.
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inanna Donating Member (672 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
1. Very, very interesting.
Recommended.
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
2. And whatever happened to the LATEST communication purportedly from bin L? nt
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antiimperialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
3. I knew Bin Laden's global warming worries seemed a bit unusual
This job has CIA painted all over it.
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inanna Donating Member (672 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Yes it does.
n/t
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Basileus Basileon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. They really don't.
This last one was written as an epistle of sorts to the Americans. As such, he chose to frame his debate in American terms, using American concerns. His messages to the Middle East are framed in Muslim terms, focusing on Middle Eastern concerns.
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sagesnow Donating Member (311 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-30-07 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #3
27. Of coarse you mean al-CIAda.
Stay tuned folks for the next al-CIAda presentation of
"Cave Crawling for Dummies"
or
"Where have you bin Laden??"
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Basileus Basileon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
5. I don't think anyone benefits *less* from bin Laden's existence than US intelligence.
The man is a persistent thorn in our side. He's an eloquent speaker who puts forth cogent, compelling arguments for the proposition that all Muslims ought resist American imperialism. Needless to say, I generally strongly disagree with him, but were I born and raised a Saudi, I cannot say for sure I would not support him on some level. I'd say there's nobody who has done more to frustrate American goals in the Middle East than bin Laden.
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Al Federfer Donating Member (214 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. Bin Laden doesn't frustrate American goals in the Mideast...
bin Laden IS an American goal in the Mideast.
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Mnemosyne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. How can he frustrate anyone when he is known to be dead?

Translation of Funeral Article in Egyptian Paper:
al-Wafd, Wednesday, December 26, 2001 Vol 15 No 4633

News of Bin Laden's Death
and Funeral 10 days ago

Islamabad -
A prominent official in the Afghan Taleban movement announced yesterday the death of Osama bin Laden, the chief of al-Qa'da organization, stating that binLaden suffered serious complications in the lungs and died a natural and quiet death. The official, who asked to remain anonymous, stated to The Observer of Pakistan that he had himself attended the funeral of bin Laden and saw his face prior to burial in Tora Bora 10 days ago. He mentioned that 30 of al-Qa'da fighters attended the burial as well as members of his family and some friends from the Taleban. In the farewell ceremony to his final rest guns were fired in the air. The official stated that it is difficult to pinpoint the burial location of bin Laden because according to the Wahhabi tradition no mark is left by the grave. He stressed that it is unlikely that the American forces would ever uncover any traces of bin Laden.

http://www.welfarestate.com/binladen/funeral /


http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/breaking_3.htm...
http://216.26.163.62/2002/me_terrorism_10_16.html

Israeli intelligence: Bin Laden is dead, heir has been chosen

SPECIAL TO WORLD TRIBUNE.COM
Wednesday, October 16, 2002
TEL AVIV Osama Bin Laden appears to be dead but his colleagues have
decided that Al Qaida and its insurgency campaign against the United
States will continue, Israeli intelligence sources said.

Al Qaida terrorists have launched a new campaign of economic warfare and
are targeting shipping in the Middle East, according to U.S. intelligence
officials.

The Israeli sources said Israel and the United States assess that Bin
Laden probably died in the U.S. military campaign in Afghanistan in
December. They said the emergence of new messages by Bin Laden are
probably fabrications, Middle East Newsline reported.

But Bin Laden's heir has been chosen and his colleagues have decided to
resume Al Qaida's offensive against the United States and Western allies,
the sources said.

http://www.welfarestate.com/binladen/funeral/israel-int...


http://www.cnn.com/2002/HEALTH/01/21/gupta.otsc/index.h...

Dr. Sanjay Gupta: Bin Laden
would need help if on
dialysis

(CNN)
--Speculation about the whereabouts and
health of Osama bin Laden picked up over
the weekend when Pakistan's president, Gen.
Pervez Musharraf, said he thought bin Laden
had likely died of kidney failure.

CNN medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta
spoke Monday with CNN's Paula Zahn about bin
Laden's appearance in recently released
videotapes and the possibility that the accused
terrorist leader was undergoing kidney treatment.

ZAHN: For a point of reference, I'd like for you
to analyze pictures of Osama bin Laden that
apparently were taken prior to September 11.
Describe to us the color and the tone of his skin,
and then I want you to contrast that with pictures
we know to have been taken much later.

GUPTA: You can look December 2001 video] and notice that he has
what some doctors refer to as sort of a frosting
over of his features -- his sort of grayness of
beard, his paleness of skin, very gaunt sort of
features. A lot of times people associate this with
chronic illness. Doctors can certainly look at that
and determine some clinical features.

http://www.welfarestate.com/binladen/funeral/laden-dial...

OBL's ghost is a convenience for the * regime.

Welcome to DU.
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Pastiche423 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-30-07 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #12
36. Ssssh!
If everyone knows he died in December 2001, how can the government keep people afraid?
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Mnemosyne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-30-07 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. Word on that, Pastiche!
It was even reported by the Israelis for crying out loud!

What short memories most people have, sadly.
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Pastiche423 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-30-07 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. I'm not sure that it's short memories
There are far too many people in our country that won't question authority; an authority that has lied time and time and time again.

If it wasn't OBL that was behind the 9/11 attacks, then that must mean...

No, no, no! USA is #1 USA is #1 USA is #1!

Hell, just look at the comments on this thread.

Never ONCE has our government supplied proof that it was OBL. It's been over six years and Colin Powell still has not produced that White Paper he promised us all that would provide proof.

Even in the last real video OBL made, he did not confess. That would have been his crowning glory, had he done it.

Osama bin Laden = Emmanuel Goldstein
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mark414 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. American goals in the Middle East? like for oil and empire?
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Basileus Basileon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Yes. Certainly.
Edited on Mon Oct-29-07 09:47 PM by Basileus Basileon
Both are failing or failed, due in part to popular opposition led by that man.
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mark414 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. should Americans strongly resist American imperialism?
do you strongly disagree with him that the US does not belong in the Middle East?

or that we are in a war for oil?

if I happen to agree with him, what does that make me?

bin laden is a monster, for sure. but so are the (American) men who made him.
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Basileus Basileon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. I would agree with him on those two points.
Edited on Mon Oct-29-07 10:00 PM by Basileus Basileon
(If you purchase and read the book I linked further on down the thread, you will probably find yourself having a similar reaction as I am about to explain.)

I understand all of his grievances. What America has done to the Middle East is unconscionable. Our actions are immoral. However, his proposed methods of resistance are immoral as well. I agree that the Iraqi sanctions were something of a hidden genocide. I disagree that an appropriate moral response is to murder Western innocents in retribution. I agree that American cultural and economic imperialism is a threat to traditional cultures. I disagree that this threat should (or even can) be repelled with bombings and assassinations.
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mark414 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. word...we are on the same page then
:thumbsup:
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-30-07 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #16
39. That man does not lead a popular opposition in Iraq...
On the contrary, even if one believes "Al Qaeda in Iraq" exists as advertised and is led by "OBL," then it has set back and divided the opposition in Iraq with criminal attacks on the population, giving a justification to continued U.S. occupation and military actions. The resistance in Iraq is based in former supporters of the Saddam regime (anti-"Qaeda") and different factions of Iraqi Sunnis and yes also Shiites (anti-"Qaeda") alike who don't want a foreign occupation. Iraqis account for more than 90 percent of the resistance.
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-30-07 06:44 AM
Response to Reply #14
30. ......and if Condi can't suck enough oil she'll get your blood

Warning!!
First time photo of Condoleezza in action


http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/1939986.jpg?v=1&c=ViewIm ...
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mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-30-07 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #5
32. That's an extremely amusing take.
Edited on Tue Oct-30-07 12:21 PM by mhatrw
If Bin Laden didn't exist (and he may no longer), our military/intelligence complex would have to invent him - just like they invented him the first time.
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harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-30-07 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #5
35. 100 years ago how many intelligence agencies did we have?
Ponder that one.
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
7. If you look closely at the tape of OBL
you can see the drapes from the Lincoln bedroom flapping off to the right.
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TheDebbieDee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
8. TinFoil Hat Wearer here..........
I think all of the Bin Laden videos have been expedited to the CIA for distribution to the world.

Bin Laden is a creation/boogeyman/profile from the days when Bush I ran the CIA and the Bin Laden was used by the US to funnel cash and supplies to Al-Queda in their fight against the Soviets when they (the Soviets) invaded Afghanistan in the 80s.

:tinfoilhat:
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Basileus Basileon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. There is a book you ought to read.
Edited on Mon Oct-29-07 07:38 PM by Basileus Basileon
http://www.amazon.com/Messages-World-Statements-Osama-L...

Nothing but the complete translated text of Osama bin Laden's public statements/tapes/videos made through 2004. It's fantastic. He's a powerful, thought-provoking writer. At times he is deeply disturbing in what he reveals about America's past, and at times he is deeply disturbing in what he reveals about himself.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. So, where does he get all his information and his knowledge about American issues?
Edited on Mon Oct-29-07 08:39 PM by JDPriestly
How come he knows the character, concerns and psychology of present America so well? Is he eavesdropping on us? Watching our TV? I thought he was wearing a robe and living in a cave and could not be apprehended by our military or CIA. There is something wrong with the picture that we are given of Bin Laden. That is why we have difficulty believing he makes the statements in some of these videos.
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sce56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. The OP is right as noted when it first came out the video freezes just before he new material is
spoken then the black beard is an obvious photoshopping of old video. Osama Bin :Laden is the BFEE's darling that keeps them in the war business.
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Basileus Basileon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. If it is faked, which it very well may be, it was likely faked by AQ.
With computer modeling, we can do much, much better than simply freezing the tape. I can't really buy the line that George Lucas can make Jar-Jar Binks' lips move right, but the CIA can't do the same to OBL.
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mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-30-07 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #18
33. Why was it "likely" faked by al Qaeda?
Why has the better means, motive and opportunity for video fakery?
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Basileus Basileon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. bin Laden is a very educated man,
Edited on Mon Oct-29-07 09:52 PM by Basileus Basileon
who has repeatedly attempted to weave references he believes will resonate with the American psyche. Some of them are so off-base as to be amusing, and some hit somewhat close to home. He may be living in caves, but television, newspapers, and the Internet reach every corner of the globe. On one hand he is a cave-dwelling, AK-47-toting terrorist, but on the other he is an academic, a religious scholar, and the leader of an intellectual movement dedicated to opposing American empire; it is strange to think that he would not consider it in his interest to understand his enemy.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-30-07 01:03 AM
Response to Reply #17
24. Sorry, but I have lived overseas. Even the best educated
people in other countries cannot fathom the American psyche as has the person who makes the Bin Laden videos. Also, unless I have only heard cut versions, the Bin Laden videos do not have enough of the flowery religious babble that authentic Muslim speeches have. I think at least the more recent Bin Laden videos are hoaxes.
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Basileus Basileon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-30-07 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. So've I. Americans aren't that hard to understand.
And frequently he pulls out references that are obscure as hell, acting like we'll understand them. From time to time he'll do things like reference some obscure, dated conspiracy theory involving Kissinger and the Jews, as if Americans kept up on decades-old anti-semitic theories. He doesn't understand us nearly as well as he believes he does, despite obsessing over us. He doesn't poke at any great fundamental truths in the American psyche. He simply references things that were in Newsweek or Time a month or two ago.

I couldn't tell you about the level of prose in the most recent ones; I am not a scholar of Classical Arabic. The translations I've read of the 2004 pre-election tape seemed no different than the others to my eyes, but I have no reason to argue with the idea that the most recent few might very well be hoaxes of sorts.
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mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-30-07 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #17
34. On one hand he has a hook and on the other hand he has a mace.
Edited on Tue Oct-30-07 12:28 PM by mhatrw
He's also missing a leg, I think. Or is that Zarqawi? Or Emmanuel Goldstein? Or Dr. Evil? I keep getting them all confused.
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olddad56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 09:16 PM
Response to Original message
15. George Bush has faked an entire life.
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
22. Yeah, "al-Qaeda" doctored the video. The Karl Rove Branch of al-Qaeda.
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Up2Late Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
23. FAKE?!? Gee! Ya think!!!

NO DUUUUUUAH! :argh:



Sounds like they may be about to admit the they were "...all fooled all these years by those al-Quada bastards all these years..."

BTW, the 2004 video and ALL the "new bin Laden tapes" since then were fake too!
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Dewlso Donating Member (74 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-30-07 01:26 AM
Response to Original message
26. And how soon before did bush ask for more money for Iraq?
Didn't the video get released just after bush incorporated asked congress for more funds in Iraq? This is another example of how the bush administration uses propaganda to get what they want. Usually they get their mouthpiece (faux noise) to do the "reporting". A good example would be Brian Killemead's claim of no lost US soldiers lives during the week in Iraq and his subsequent complaint that other networks were not following up with the story. (That may have been because it was an outright lie by faux noise and their talking heads) bush is pulling out all the stops to make himself look like a hero, whether it be protecting us against terrorists or his photo ops in California while San Diego burned. I am not a conspiracy theorist but you would have to be blind or blindly loyal to bush not to suspect him of propagandizing the people in order to get what he wants.
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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-30-07 02:39 AM
Response to Original message
28. Who gives a sh*t? Our WHOLE ADMINISTRATION was faked. Beat that.
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-30-07 06:17 AM
Response to Original message
29. whether al-Qaida doctored the video? How about the White House doctored?
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tyne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-30-07 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. I think...
the fact that the US unequivocally states that the video is new (several times in the article) makes a very telling admission.
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