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cal04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-13-07 10:29 AM
Original message
Dems: Override children's health veto
Source: Associated Press

Democratic Sen. Max Baucus of Montana asked his colleagues on Saturday to override President Bush's veto of legislation that would expand a popular children's health insurance program.

"Every Republican must decide whether they will stand with the president and his veto, or stand with our children and their right to a healthy future," Baucus said in his party's weekly radio address.

House Democrats have scheduled for this week a vote to override the president's veto of legislation that would increase spending for the State Children's Health Insurance Program by $35 billion over five years. Bush has called for a $5 billion increase.

(snip)
He said Saturday that the president is telling millions of parents that they don't deserve the same basic care for their kids that Bush had for his.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071013/ap_on_go_co/democrats_children_s_health_1
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-13-07 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
1. kids deserve health care, but smokers shouldn't be paying for it
Edited on Sat Oct-13-07 10:53 AM by ixion
just my opinion.

And it's sad that they can get so much momentum worked up for this, but just can't seem to find the time to get us out of Iraq, or to impeach the criminal in the WH.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-13-07 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. They can actually get the votes for this.
As opposed to issues where the Republicans return to lockstep to prevent any progress.
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ohio2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-13-07 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. When more smokers die, another tax needs imposed or continue to raise the cigarette tax
..and when they are in cancer treatment, for smoking, they will have medicare/medicade cover them

win/win
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-13-07 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. I don't want anything from the government... what I want is for them to stop taxing me into oblivion
thanks.
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Kittycat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-13-07 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Taxing you in to oblivion? Isn't that what smoking's doing to your health?
Face it, smoking is deadly, and leads to second hand smoke - which impacts children's health and lives daily. If it's a way to get smokers to stop or pay up, then I have no problem with it. But I do agree that we need to prepare for alternative funding in the future when smokers die or quit smoking.
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The_Warmth Donating Member (241 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-13-07 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. Not pointed towards you but,
I get worked up when some asshole in an SUV complains about my second hand smoke then goes off revving his engines driving home 45 minutes away. IMO all greenhouse gas emissions should be taxed for health care, seems like it hurts a lot more than smoking. I was once told by the President of the Winston Churchill Cigar Society that CO2 levels are legally higher in auto shops than anything that can come from smoking. I just feel like second hand smoke is such a farce compared to, mainly, auto emissions.
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Kittycat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-13-07 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #11
28. I have no issue with that, except...
Edited on Sat Oct-13-07 04:44 PM by Kittycat
More options in transportation would be nice. We don't even have a public transportation system in our town. 2x/week, my husband drives 20min to the train station in the neighboring town, then commutes on that for 45min to get in to the city for work, only to walk from the train station to his office (another 15-20min walk). But at least he isn't sitting on the highway for 2 hours each morning and evening returning home. We're waiting for his 8yo oldsmobile to die, in order to get a decent hybrid or electric replacement. But I swear that this is the only american made car running, that has never required any significant amount of maintenance (short of a part to fix the window gears).
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Stargazer99 Donating Member (943 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-13-07 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Good! Let's pull your police and fire protection and any other
Edited on Sat Oct-13-07 11:31 AM by Stargazer99
government program you get a benefit of. If you have a roof over your head and food, medical/dental care consider yourself not taxed to death. You don't need an expensive car or home address to live.
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-13-07 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #6
19. please do. It brings me nothing but sorrow
I get calls from the people you mention all the time asking me for money.
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ohio2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-13-07 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. Warning; the surgeon general has determined that smoking his hazardous to your wallet
in more ways then the cost of that FDA approved commodity
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Toots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-14-07 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #4
33. Easy fix..quit smoking and it is a win win situation for all.
:shrug: Consider it a user fee instead of a tax..Like license fees or bus fees..
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monktonman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-13-07 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #3
21. We'll have to get more kids to start smoking then.
After little johnny / Suzey get out of the hospital
we'll tell them that somewhere down the road they're gonna have to start
smoking to help pay for their recent visit to the hospital.
Spread those medical bill paymenys over a lifetime.
When they get older and are dying of lung cancer
who frickin cares when they dont have health insurance.

Also, when your older and try to quit smoking
we can tell yell at you for not caring about childrens health care.
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HockeyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-13-07 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #3
23. Not all do
Neither my Uncle nor my Mom did. Seek treatment that is. When you are in your 70s, well, everybody has to die of something sometime.
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ohio2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-13-07 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. If people who ate fast food were asked to pay at the drive through
for health care,it wouldn't even see the light of day. too many people eat at fast food joints,especially the poor and obese.
Smokers are an exclusive poor minority the gobmit has no problem bending over for the sake of fat happy meal eating kids.

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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-13-07 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #9
18. exactly my point
they tax the smokers only because they think they can get away with it. I'm sure, as you mention, if they slapped a 60 per diem tax on fast food all hell would break loose, even though fast food has much more to do with kids and kids being overweight, than smoking does.
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mac56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-14-07 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #9
34. Not even similar.
Someone eating fast food doesn't affect me, you, or any other innocent bystander.

Second hand smoke does.

Straw man argument.
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madmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-13-07 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
8. truth is the dems tried to get it paid for by other means, but
this is the only one repugs would agree to.
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ohio2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-13-07 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. SO it's the repubs who got the veto overide? Looks like Phillip Morris will
be rethinking their election pledges.
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Arkansas Granny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-13-07 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
12. The Congressman for our district (John Boozman-R) is saying
that the SCHIP bill that was vetoed extended benefits to illegal immigrants and that is one of the reasons he voted against it.
-------------

Washington, Oct 3 - U.S. Representative John Boozman (R-AR) today called on House leadership to move forward with a vote to override President Bush’s veto of a wide expansion of the State Children’s Health Insurance Program so that Congress can move forward on crafting legislation which would have a better opportunity of becoming law.

“When we last voted on expanding the government’s involvement in our healthcare system through the SCHIP program, we all knew it would be vetoed,” Boozman said. “We should now have a vote to override, which we all know will fail, so Congress can move forward and put together a truly bipartisan bill which provides health insurance for the nation’s poorest children in a fiscally responsible way and ensures illegal immigrants will not receive benefits meant for Americans.”

It was announced Tuesday that House leaders will put off, possibly for weeks, a vote to override the President’s veto. This decision could cause an indefinite delay in substantive discussions of alternatives that would reauthorize the SCHIP program in responsible fashion.

“We need to move on and put together a bill which can expand the program in a responsible way and do so before the program expires in November,” Boozman said. “Any delay puts this program at risk, and I urge House leaders to not put off the opportunity to move forward and put together a plan which focuses on the original intent of the program: to cover low-income children first.”

http://www.boozman.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=75765


In addition to the statement above, they showed a snippet of him this morning on our local news expressing fear about illegal immigrants receiving SCHIP benefits. This is the first time I have heard this accusation and I can't turn up any info on it besides the Republican claims. I would think that surely they would be making a lot of noise about that if it is true, but the biggest stink they've made so far is about "rich kids" getting coverage. Does anyone have anything on this?
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ohio2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-13-07 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. illegal immigrants that harvest the tobacco now have health coverage
for their illegal immigrant children.

I've also heard that families making a combined income of $80,000 will get free coverage for their kids.
Guess a few insurance policies will be rewritten in order to keep health insurance companies from going under
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Stargazer99 Donating Member (943 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-13-07 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. You've been told a bunch of crap...someone had posted
the actual coverages and it was up to $50,000 annual income.
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Arkansas Granny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-13-07 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. The $80,000.00 income provision has been debunked. That
was apparently one state trying to get thier limit raised to that amount. I'm just wondering if there is anything to debunk Boozman's claims. Since immigration has become such a hot topic, I was surprised that I hadn't heard any other Republicans complaining about that aspect of the bill, if true.
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pinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-13-07 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #12
20. SCHIP and the big Republican Lie:
Republican lawmakers are fear mongering the SCHIP veto debate with claims it is open to illegal immigrants. Below are relevant, detailed guidelines for eligibility in Medicaid and SCHIP (the two share generally the same eligibility guidelines).

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:GwkOz5TvKD0J:www.c...

The Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity and Reconciliation Act of 1996, P.L. 104-193 (PRWORA) substantially restricted immigrants’ eligibility for means-tested benefits programs, including Medicaid and the State Children’s Health Insurance Program (SCHIP). In particular, with few exceptions, PRWORA restricts eligibility for such programs to “qualified aliens.” Qualified aliens, defined in §431 of PRWORA, as amended, include:

1. Aliens lawfully admitted for permanent residence under the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA), 8 USC 1101 et seq.;

2. Refugees, admitted under §207 of the INA;

3. Aliens granted asylum under §208 of the INA;

4. Cuban and Haitian Entrants, as defined in §501(e) of the Refugee Education Assistance Act of 1980;

5. Aliens granted parole for at least one year under §212(d)(5) of the INA;

6. Aliens whose deportation is being withheld under
(1) §243(h) of the INA as in effect prior to April 1, 1997; or
(2) §241(b)(3) of the INA, as amended;

7. Aliens granted conditional entry under §203(a)(7) of the INA in effect before April 1, 1980;

8. Battered aliens, who meet the conditions set forth in §431(c) of PRWORA, as added by §501 of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996, P.L. 104-208 (IIRIRA), and amended by §5571 of the Balanced Budget Act of 1997, P.L. 105-33 (BBA), and §1508 of the Violence against Women Act of 2000, P.L. 106-386. Section 431(c) of PRWORA, as amended, is codified at 8 USC 1641(c).1

9. Victims of a severe form of trafficking, in accordance with §107(b)(1) of the Trafficking Victims Protection Act of 2000, P.L. 106-386.2

1 Battered aliens were not initially included in PRWORA’s definition of qualified aliens. In passing §501IIRIRA, Congress added a new §431(c) to PRWORA, which provides that term “qualified alien” shallinclude such immigrants. Section 431(c) of PRWORA subsequently was amended by §5571 of the BBA and §1508 of the Violence against Women Act of 2000.

2 Trafficking victims are not included in the statutory definition of qualified alien. Under §107(b)(1)(A) ofthe Trafficking Victims Protection Act, however, they are eligible for means-tested benefits to the sameextent as refugees.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In states that confer automatic eligibility to SSI recipients, non-qualified aliens who arereceiving SSI also are eligible for Medicaid. In addition, certain non-citizen Native Americans are exempt from the requirement that non-citizens be a qualified alien in order to be eligible for SSI, Food Stamps and Medicaid. Those subject to this exemption include

(1) members of a Federally-recognized Indian tribe, as defined in §4(e) of the Indian Self-Determination and Education Assistance Act, 25 USC 450b(e), and

(2) American Indians born in Canada to whom §289 of the INA applies (“§289 Native Americans”).

Finally, undocumented immigrants and other non-qualified aliens are eligible under Medicaid for treatment of emergency medical conditions, provided that they otherwise meet the eligibility criteria for the state’s Medicaid program.

For general information on immigrant eligibility, states and other readers also may consult sections 3210 and 3211 of the State Medicaid Manual and the letter to State Medicaid Directors dated December 8, 1997. The State Medicaid Manual and the December 8, 1997 letter can be found on the CMS Website at http://www.cms.gov .

Note that, although the State Medicaid Manual and December 8, 1997 letter only discuss immigrant eligibility for Medicaid, the definition of “qualified alien” for purposes of Medicaid and SCHIP is the same. (see below)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.cms.hhs.gov/MedicaidEligibility /

ELIGIBILITY (Medicaid)

Many groups of people are covered by Medicaid. Even within these groups, though, certain requirements must be met. These may include your age, whether you are pregnant, disabled, blind, or aged; your income and resources (like bank accounts, real property, or other items that can be sold for cash); and whether you are a U.S. citizen or a lawfully admitted immigrant. The rules for counting your income and resources vary from state to state and from group to group. There are special rules for those who live in nursing homes and for disabled children living at home.

Your child may be eligible for coverage if he or she is a U.S. citizen or a lawfully admitted immigrant, even if you are not (however, there is a 5-year limit that applies to lawful permanent residents). Eligibility for children is based on the child's status, not the parent's. Also, if someone else's child lives with you, the child may be eligible even if you are not because your income and resources will not count for the child.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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Arkansas Granny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-13-07 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #20
29. Thank you. That's the type of info I was trying to find.
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xxqqqzme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-13-07 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #12
26. boozman is lying his ass off. It is all about the fear w/ these
Edited on Sat Oct-13-07 02:40 PM by xxqqqzme
rat bastards. Rep. Chris Van Hollen was talking about the publicans spreading this lie last night on Tavis Smiley. He said health care for undocumented children has NEVER been part of SCHIP.

http://www.pbs.org/kcet/tavissmiley/archive/200710/20071012.html
'...Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee chair Rep. Chris Van Hollen discusses efforts in Congress to overturn President Bush's veto of the SCHIP bill...'
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Arkansas Granny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-13-07 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. I assumed that he was not telling the truth. If a provision for
illegal immigrants had been in the bill, they would have been screaming about from day one.
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Malva Zebrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-13-07 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
15. Maybe fat peopler should be taxed for every pound they are overweight
Somehow, the fat people, who are also as vulnerable to health problems as the dreaded smokers, and oh, don't forget those fat people, who do not exercise either--another factor in determining who is a drain on your taxes or on your premium in whatever health care plan you have.

Fat people, and I have seen a lot of them bouncing around, proud of their fat, apparently, are as bad for the system as smokers--and they must teach their children to be fat also as I observe many of their children in tow, are just fat little butterballs at the age of five. Diabetes, type 2, at the age of ten.
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monktonman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-13-07 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #15
22. Good thing I'm not FAT
otherwise I'd be offended by your post.
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Akoto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-13-07 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #15
24. I don't know if you're being sarcastic or something, but ...
Edited on Sat Oct-13-07 02:35 PM by Akoto
There are quite a few people out there who're genetically predisposed to weight gain, as well as a plethora of other issues which may lead to obesity. It's narrow-minded and unfair to assume that everyone who maintains extra weight does so because they don't exercise or are irresponsible.

Smokers, since you brought them up, generally have no such excuse. They make the decision to put that cigarette between their lips in an age when we're well aware of just how detrimental it can be. Lighting up is gambling with your life. If you're lucky, you and yours won't end up with tumors sprouting everywhere, but the odds aren't great.
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mac56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-14-07 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #24
35. well put
thank you
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Lint Head Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-13-07 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
17. If this does not pass the Re-Pubic-Rats will pay BIG TIME!
:dem:
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OHdem10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-13-07 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
25. Let us get real here---I hope they can override the veto.
However, in my reading and checking around--the GOP will
not budge. Bush cannot change and leave them waving in the
wind.

Cigarette Tzs will never pass. Too many states use this
for their own needs. It is disingenous from the get go.
Not that many people smoke, Last year I read a study on
this. The Dems just like the Republicans with their PayGO
will raid Social Security and Medicare Fund.

They tried it this time but all the GOP candidates were
using this against Dems at their town halls and Debates.

AARP was not to happy.

Yes we need Children's Health Care but just as National
Health Care--it is going to require raising taxes and
no one wants to do that.
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...of J.Temperance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-13-07 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
27. They BETTER override the Bush veto on this
There's a moral duty to ensure that as many children as possible have adequate health insurance.

It's appalling that Bush has NO problem wasting BILLIONS and BILLIONS of money of Iraq, money that effectively is getting squandered and stolen by the increasingly corrupt new Iraqi government....yet Bush begrudges giving BILLIONS and BILLIONS to ensure that the children of his OWN country have adequate health insurance.

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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-13-07 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
31. woohoo
:woohoo:
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-13-07 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
32. Health care for bushit brats but NO
Edited on Sat Oct-13-07 07:47 PM by zidzi
Iraq for them..they're better going around the country talkin' shit..yeah, you bars or was it the other who couldn't quite see getting killed in the AWOL's War On Iraq?
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