Driver's Licenses for Illegal Immigrants Find Support

[DeepModem Mom]

Source: New York Times

ALBANY, Oct. 8 — Opponents have decried Gov. Eliot Spitzer’s move to grant driver’s licenses to illegal immigrants as a “passport to terror” and a “frightening” policy shift that is “dangerous and inconceivable.” They suggest that the policy will shield illegal immigrants from scrutiny by law enforcement and airport security personnel and make them appear to be in the United States legally.

But the governor’s policy is drawing support from some terrorism and security experts, who, like Mr. Spitzer, regard it as a way of bringing a hidden population into the open and ultimately making the system more secure, not to mention getting more drivers on the road licensed and insured. The success of the policy, they say, will rest on the reliability of new technology that Mr. Spitzer wants installed in Department of Motor Vehicles offices to verify the authenticity of passports and other documents that the illegal immigrants will be required to submit when applying for licenses.

Some of the new security problems predicted by critics appear unlikely, several security experts said. Having a driver’s license should not make it easier to board a domestic airplane flight, because foreign passports are already accepted as identification at airports. Moreover, a spokeswoman for the Transportation Security Administration said, neither a foreign passport nor an American driver’s license is among the criteria used to determine whether the bearer will be subject to extra security screening.

Further, while critics have made much of the fact that several of the Sept. 11 terrorists used driver’s licenses to rent vehicles and board airplanes, they were able to obtain licenses as apparently legal immigrants, if in some cases by presenting fraudulent documentation. As a result, the federal commission that investigated the attacks specifically declined to make recommendations on whether licenses should be granted to illegal immigrants, saying it was not germane to their inquiry....

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/09/nyregion/09license.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

[NYVet]

1. Common logic...

If someone is here illegally, they should be sent back home and not given the access to government services that legal immigrants and citizens are entitled.

I don't care if that person is red, white, yellow, brown, black or any color. It is about following the laws that were passed by the representatives of the people.

[Triana]

5. 100% agreed, NYVet (n/t)

[Az_lefty]

15. I'm with ya on that one...

:toast:

[badgervan]

38. Me Too

It is insanity to reward criminal behavior with ANY form of legal I.D. Anything for more Spitzer votes, I guess - but irresponsible and wrong in the extreme.

[depakid]

17. Strange logic

Common sense should tell you that you'd want undocumented people who are driving around anyway to be licensed and insured.

Fortunately, common sense prevails in my state- though in other places, reason seems to be short circuited by anti-immigrant sentiments.

[NYVet]

53. I would rather that the not be here

You know, that whole national sovereignty issue with the fact that people are breaking our laws shouldn't be allowed to get benefits and privileges that legalized aliens and citizens are able to access.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

27. Doesn't seem logical to me.

What does somebody's immigration status have to do with whether or not they can drive a car?

[NYVet]

54. A driver's license is a benefit and a privilege given by the state

not a right that you have. And if a person is here in violation of our laws, it SHOULD disqualify them from any benefits, other than these needed to maintain life (emergency room treatment).

[piedmont]

43. agree. nt

[cstanleytech]

44. I'll agree for the most part

except for basic emergency services but yeah otherwise if they are here illegally they need to be deported post haste.
That aside its well known alot of farmers do depend on immigrants for their labor so I guess I could agree with making it easier for people to get papers to come here legally, if they do though then they need to crack down harder in my opinion on the people here illegally and the farmers and companies that make it a habit to knowingly hire illegals.

[JeanGrey]

45. I agree. I think this is madness.

[slackmaster]

2. Not sure about NY, but here in CA a driver's license allows a person to vote

Or buy a gun.

Without some clear indication on the license that the person is not a legal resident, this would be a terrible mistake.

[Hangingon]

3. My Texas drivers license and an international license

has worked in Germany, Ireland, England and Italy. Why not here?

[slackmaster]

4. I agree that a Mexican (or whatever) license should be honored for driving here

That would solve this issue.

[bahrbearian]

10. Did you have a Visa too?

[Hangingon]

25. No

[bahrbearian]

26. and you didn't go through customs?

[Hangingon]

40. Yes I went thru Customs and immigration on entry to Germany, Ireland and England.

[Critters2]

41. Then you had a visa.

That little stamp in your passport is a visa.

[Hangingon]

56. I'm a little slow, but I get your meaning now. Thanks

[iverglas]

22. care to clarify, maybe?

here in CA a driver's license allows a person to vote
Or buy a gun.

I think maybe you meant something along the lines of a driver's licence is one of the documents that is accepted as identification and/or proof of residence when used for those purposes by a person who is ENTITLED to vote or guy a gun

?

I really don't think that a driver's licence "allows" a person to do either one of those things.

Would I be correct?

[slackmaster]

37. An illegal resident is federally banned from buying a gun and voting, HOWEVER

With a California Driver License in hand, plus a few things like utility bills to establish physical residence in the state, and a willingness to provide a false answer on ONE yes/no question on the federal paperwork, there is nothing to stop an illegal resident from buying a gun or registering to vote (and actually voting) in California.

I really don't think that a driver's licence "allows" a person to do either one of those things.

Split hair accepted.

Allows, no. Enables, yes.

Unless the license is somehow stigmatized so people like gun dealers and registrars of voters can identify unqualified people.

[JeanGrey]

46. Do people really think that these people won't vote?

Once you get a driver's license any number of things are possible.

[slackmaster]

50. I think some people, unfortunately Democrats, are counting on them voting

That's every bit as criminal and immoral as the skulduggery often attributed to the GOP side by fanatical DUers and their ilk.

[Critters2]

42. I don't know much about buying guns,

but in "Motor-Voter" states, a driver's license is all you need to vote.

[Hulk]

6. Help me out here a little..... drivers licenses = legal auto insurance....???

Are you tired of hearing stories about "illigal Mexicans driving w/o insurance"? Want to help cut back on these stories. Then LET THEM GET A DRIVER'S LICENSE!! What the hell does that have to do with giving them American benifits??? Nada!!

We can drive down there....they should be able to AT LEAST drive legal up here. We are such loons sometimes....a LOT of the times.

[superconnected]

7. I think the problem is that they are illegals so shouldn't be here in the first place.

I used to support them until I moved into a neighborhood full of them.

People that would come over illegally are a special type that makes all mexicans look bad. There's just too many that are not simply poor and tyring to honestly feed their family. I know being illegal makes it impossible to be honest but I mean, they come over here and literally sink to lives of crime. I fully believe these people were in lives of crime before they came. The honest ones really do apply for citizenship.

My opinion after living in a neighborhood full of them is send them back and don't give an inch of making them legit. I fully DON'T expect the illegal type as a whole to go get insurance coverage if they get a license. It's not their fault, it's a poverty mentality that comes built in with lack of education and lack of responsiblity. Think of the poorest in Americas big cities who steal to stay alive. Now expect them to go get insurance for their own good. Their poverty and social conditioning makes it not likely. Anyway, that's the type that are coming here en masse.

I am going to make a crack here. Most car thieves don't want insurance. I'm only making that crack since my car, my moms car, and my neighbors car(stolen 5 times from our parking lot) have been stolen now. My moms car was also stolen from our parking lot. When the little creep mexican thief next door finally got shot and killed at the ripe age of 22, our cars quit getting stolen.

[Hangingon]

8. A drivers license doe not equal insurance.

Superconnected raises an new image and one that I don't think will be popular here. I agree with Super. The "Illegal" paradigm is a poor but hardworking peon crossing the river to feed his family. This is way out of date. Some illegals are great. More often now we are seeing drug runners and gangsters. Crime including murder is up. The weight of weaponry is up too in some areas. These people are not interested in insurance. It is fairly common form them to abandon an accident site on foot.

[depakid]

21. Us vs. Them

Fear of the other drives people to make a lot of gross generalizations that reflect poorly on their ability to think critically about issues.

Not sure what car theft has to do with the OP, but have a look at the car theft stats sometime. I don't think you're going to see any trends based on immigration status.

[iverglas]

23. them them them them them them

The peculiar dialect of the ... well, we all know who. If we didn't already, we sure do from reading your post.

[Snarkturian Clone]

28. Thank you

for making sense.

[amandabeech]

16. Getting a driver's license does not guarantee getting auto insurance.

You're supposed to present proof of insurance when you register a vehicle.

If you use stolen plates, you won't get insurance.

You can also let your insurance lapse, and hope you don't get caught. Some states don't keep track of the insurance well.

[damntexdem]

9. The racists will continue to oppose DLs, and anything else useful.

They don't care whether there is any real link to the War on Terra, nor whether the latter itself makes any sense.

[superconnected]

11. No, it doesn't take a racist. It takes someone who knows the type

that would be illegal.

There are plenty of legal mexicans over here who go to work everyday and are fine. Unfortunately the illegal ones are prone to doing a lot more illegal things than just crossing the border. There is very little regard for our laws with them and it's not fair even comparing them to the legal ones.

You know, often on this site everyone wants businesses that hire the illegals to close and send the owners to jail. Well then what, the illegals can only STEAL at that point. For now it's just a whole lot of them that don't want to work at all that do crime instead. But I can't totally blame them, they can't get a decent paying job because they're on the run from the gov.

[closeupready]

12. Likewise, denying them licenses only leads to more illegals driving illegally.

How does that make society safer? It actually makes society LESS safe. Pulling them into the system and educating them about how to drive is the way to go.

[Phx_Dem]

13. If your not a US citizen

you don't need a US DL. All countries issue an international DL, somewhere on the license it will have printed "IT".

[closeupready]

14. What if you don't have a DL when you come here?

There are undoubtedly many people who didn't have or need one in their home countries, but now that they live in LA or Atlanta or somewhere like that, they need to drive, license or no license.

[Lance_Boyle]

19. They don't need to drive.

They need to go home.

[closeupready]

20. Well, both parties have failed on both measures. So until you can come up with a solution

(and an effective one) to either problem, we have facts on the ground to deal with, not wishful thinking.

[superconnected]

34. They need to drive to their illegal job, right?

It's better if they don't drive since we don't want them to get in an accident since they don't belong in the country in the first place.

I know that doesn't work in reality.

In reality they are here illegally, driving illegally, working illegally, and hopefully doing nothing else illegal. Making them legal drivers only helps them get around a country they are illegal in.

But forget that...

Let's let all the people out of jail now, shall we? Why treat SOME people different for breaking the law? lets just get rid of laws all together! I mean why recognize ANY if we're going to allow one group of people to ignore them while we make the rest of the people abide by them?

I am pro giving everyone legal or illegal medical and food stamps because I consider that the basis of civilization - giving people at the very least what they need to survive regardless of any laws they break.

I am not pro giving them drivers licenses. I don't believe they should be on the road driving if they're someone whose outrunning the law. What happens if they cause an accident, they have to run away? They shouldn't be friggen on the road in the first place whether their license is legal or not- they're not supposed to be in the country. And, they certianly aren't suppose to be driving to work.

And if you think they should be driving to work, then I'll agree under 1 condition - that I can continue working but no longer pay taxes out of my paycheck.

[slackmaster]

39. Aliens who are legal US residents may well need a state-issued DL

I knew some German exchange students many years ago. One of them had his German DL expire while he was living in California on a student visa.

He was unable to get that renewed by mail, so he applied for and got a California DL. He did need to be able to drive.

[Phx_Dem]

52. That's a good point nt.

[JeanGrey]

47. On the news tonight was a lengthy story about the number

of mexican gangs that are operating in the U.S. now and it was a pretty bleak picture. This particular story was talking about 75-100 of them in one gang and their list of crimes was pretty horrific.

[slackmaster]

51. Be prepared to be tarred as a racist for merely mentioning the coverage

You need a thick skin to survive here.

[JeanGrey]

55. I am beginning to find that out. :-)

[puffymuffins]

18. Give them the license

Then, use the info to compile a database of names, addresses and employers. Then, round them up and send them back to their country of origin. Then, fine their employers to cover the costs of all this bullshit. Then, invite them to come back legally and wait their turn in line for admission.

[matcom]

24. yeah, we need more government databases of names floating around

:eyes:

[puffymuffins]

29. I've got no problem identifying and sending back illegals

based on a verifiable database. I've got no problem using technology to stop illegal immigrants and employers of illegal immigrants from flooding our country. Do you?

[matcom]

31. I have an inherent problem with labeling people as

"illegal" in the first place.

how nice for you that you 'chose' to be born here

[superconnected]

32. I have a friend that snuck into canada and got deported back to the US

several times.

He may not have chose to be born here but he certianly needs to follow Canadas rules now that he is here if he plans on going into their country and living there without getting a visa or citizenship.

[matcom]

33. is he contributing to their economy?

obeying their laws once he is there?

give him the damned piece of paper and let him pay his taxes then.

[superconnected]

35. I agree, but unfortunately no.

That particular friend was always a dead beat who couldn't hold a job.

[puffymuffins]

49. Give me a list of all the other countries

That would allow you to cross their border and would accept you as a legal citizen. Surely, progressive countries such as Canada, Ireland, the Netherlands, Sweden, etc. would have no inherent problem with that. Right?

[superconnected]

30. No I think round ups are like nazism.

If they did round them up and take them back across the border, then they'd only come back. I don't think that's the answer.

[closeupready]

36. I wasn't going to make that comparison, but I did decline to post that an essential part of roundups

is cooperation, and you wouldn't get it. At least, not from me.

[JeanGrey]

48. Can I vote for you?