U.S. Weapons, Given to Iraqis, Move to Turkey

[cal04]

Source: NYTimes

Weapons that were originally given to Iraqi security forces by the American military have been recovered over the past year by the authorities in Turkey after being used in violent crimes in that country, Pentagon officials said Wednesday.

The discovery that serial numbers on pistols and other weapons recovered in Turkey matched those distributed to Iraqi police units has prompted growing concern by Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates that controls on weapons being provided to Iraqis are inadequate. It was also a factor in the decision to dispatch the department’s inspector general to Iraq next week to investigate the problem, the officials said.

Pentagon officials said they did not yet have evidence that Iraqi security forces or Kurdish officials were selling or giving the weapons to Kurdish separatists, as Turkish officials have contended.

It was possible, they said, that the weapons had been stolen or lost during firefights and smuggled into Turkey after being sold in Iraq’s extensive black market for firearms. Officials gave widely varied estimates — from dozens to hundreds — of how many American-supplied weapons had been found in Turkey.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/30/washington/30contract...

[MidwestTransplant]

1. Sure, they just happened to get to Turkey on accident.

Clearly they were sold by the Kurds. Who can blame them. Just say you lost it and the'll give you another.

[krispos42]

2. So, does that give Turkey justification to go after us?

After all, we're supplying criminals and terrorists with advanced arms. Sound like Turkey needs to take a hard line with us and authorize their military commanders to go after Americans supporting Turkey's terrorists.

[sanskritwarrior]

3. The Kurds are freedom fighters

[krispos42]

4. "freedom fighters" are in the eyes of the beholder

I'm sure the Iraqi insurgents don't see themselves as we see them.

But my point was to note how we're doing to Turkey what Iran is accused of doing to us in Iraq.

[sanskritwarrior]

5. But most Iraqi insurgents are not freedom fighters

they are terrorists, Kurds are freedom fighters. Sorry the scar on my leg tells me that Iraqis are not freedom fighters.

[Nihil]

7. Brilliant!

> But most Iraqi insurgents are not freedom fighters they are terrorists,
> Kurds are freedom fighters.

In other words, "If we like you, you're freedom fighters but if we don't,
you're terrorists."

Don't forget the unspoken corollary: "And if we change our mind later on,
tough shit because WE'RE THE U.S.A.!"

Better still, you said it with a straight face!

[sanskritwarrior]

8. So if we don't like someone and consider them an enemy

we shold arm them??? Why wouldn't I say that with a straight face?

And who said anything about us being the USA....what a strange answer to my correct position........

[krispos42]

9. Crap, my response didn't post

DU went south last night. Thought it made it, but I guess not. It went something like this:


The Iraqis are fighting a foreign occupier. Us. They know we won't leave until a) a friendly oil-for-America Iraqi government is established, b) the oil runs out, or c) we're thrown out.

In addition, Sunni Iraqis are fighting against Shia domination and retribution and Shia are fighting against a return to Sunni minority rule.

Some of the attacks during these fights are terrorist attacks.

[sanskritwarrior]

6. But the Turks are repressing the Kurds

as are the Persians.......

And the Persians are trying to incorrectly influence events in Iraq. So the two things are nowhere near alike. The Kurds fight for their freedom and their people, the Iranians arm militias to destabilize Iraq creating chaos.........There is no similarity at all..

[krispos42]

10. The Iranians correctly try to influence Iraq

A very powerful and belligerent nation has toppled two of Iran's neighbors and installed puppet governments in their place. That same powerful and belligerent nation has been threatening Iran with attack for a number of years now, including the use of nuclear weapons.

Both of the neighbors that the powerful and belligerent nation has invaded have collapsed into chaos. The prosepect of TWO failed states on the borders of Iran is a direct and immediate threat to Iran's own national safety and stability.

No to mention that the powerful and belligerent nation has been overthrowing and interfering with nations and governments in the Middle East for fifty years or more, INCLUDING Iran in the past and present.

So, yeah, Iran has a good reason to take sides in Iraq. I'm not saying they should be, not with us still there working on it, but they have ample reason to be very anxious about how Iraq turns out and the future of American influence in the Middle East.

[sanskritwarrior]

13. Sucks to be Iran

[Tempest]

17. Why?

Iran isn't the one getting its ass kicked in Iraq.

They're sitting back watching the U.S.' military exhausting itself and are poised to take over when the U.S. can no longer shoulder the burden.

[sanskritwarrior]

20. Uh huh

keep telling yourself that sparky.......My twou tours convince me that Iran is as deep in the Iraqi quicksand as we are. The difference is we can and will leave, they can't........So yes it sucks to be Iran confronted on all its borders by hostile nations.......The Persians wanted to dance, well they got one.......

[Tempest]

11. Not according to the U.S. State Department

The PKK is on the State Department's terrorist list.

[sanskritwarrior]

12. Another mistake by Bush

[Tempest]

16. The PKK has been on the list before Bush

And they are rightfully considered a terrorist group.

The bombing of civilians gives them that distinction.

[sanskritwarrior]

19. I would side with the Kurds and the Israelis

before any ohter country in the Middle East........we are so stupid as country sometimes, we give small amounts of money to the Palestinians when we should be helping the Israelis deal with them, and we give some Kurds a terror label when we should be arming them to the teeth and using them as a proxy........If bombing civilians gets one a terror label, then most countries on this planet have a small hand in terror........

[Canuckistanian]

14. This is a major reason why the Turkish people distrust America

And they've said it, often. They say that the Kurdish rebels have been fighting the Turkish army with American-made weapons.

They believe that Americans are on the side of the Kurdish freedom movement.

[Supersedeas]

15. remember the stink expressed by the GOP/Media Establ re: Syrian/Iranian weapons in Lebanon

[Tempest]

18. We'll have none of that

No balance in the media here.

Now get back in line.