Finding nonsectarian military leaders

[rodeodance]

Source: ap






Finding nonsectarian military leaders

By ROBERT BURNS, AP Military Writer 6 minutes ago

BAGHDAD - The biggest obstacle to building Iraqi security forces is finding leaders who are experienced and not bound by sectarian loyalties, a senior U.S. general told The Associated Press on Saturday.
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"You can't grow a force this fast and have the right number of qualified leaders. You can't do it," Dubik said in an hourlong interview at the U.S. Embassy. "This is a problem now and it will be a problem for a good number of years."
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"Battlefield survival — professional Darwinism — is teaching very good combat skills ... that will ultimately pay off throughout the force," he said, while adding, "It's going to take time to mature."
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Gen. David Petraeus, the top U.S. commander in Iraq, has developed a war plan that sets a goal of attaining localized security in Baghdad and other key areas by next summer. It also envisions that the Iraqi security forces are capable by the summer of 2009 of sustaining that level of security, with less U.S. support.


Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070728/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_security_forces;_ylt=AhnX41ftO4F4ZOzO7SG4P5Ws0NUE

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There is a basic tenet-----Iraqi are loyal to their tribe/sect. I really do not think this will change in a few years-----it many over many generations, but not quickly!

It is evident that Maliki is loyal to his sect!



>
>
> Sat Jul-28-07 06:57 AM
> Response to Reply #5
> 7. Here's another reason to get out: NYT today has an article about
> how the Iraqi government is refusing to take over most of the "completed" reconstruction projects from the Americans...something about shoddy workmanship...
>
> Sorry, I can't find the link but the article in in today's online NYT.
>
> Forum Name General Discussion
> Topic subject Iraqi leader tells Bush: Get Gen Petraeus out
> Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1459253#1459253
> 1459253, Iraqi leader tells Bush: Get Gen Petraeus out
> Posted by unhappycamper on Sat Jul-28-07 06:43 AM
>
>
> Stormy relationship: Nouri al-Maliki and Gen David Petraeus
>
> Iraqi leader tells Bush: Get Gen Petraeus out
> By Damien McElroy, Foreign Affairs Correspondent
> Last Updated: 2:44am BST 28/07/2007
>
>
> Relations between the top United States general in Iraq and Nouri al-Maliki, the country's prime minister, are so bad that the Iraqi leader made a direct appeal for his removal to President George W Bush.
>
> Although the call was rejected, aides to both men admit that Mr Maliki and Gen David Petraeus engage in frequent stand-up shouting matches, differing particularly over the US general's moves to arm Sunni tribesmen to fight al-Qa'eda.
>
> One Iraqi source said Mr Maliki used a video conference with Mr Bush to call for the general's signature strategy to be scrapped. "He told Bush that if Petraeus continues, he would arm Shia militias," said the official. "Bush told Maliki to calm down."
>
> At another meeting with Gen Petraeus, Mr Maliki said: "I can't deal with you any more. I will ask for someone else to replace you."
>
> Gen Petraeus admitted that the relationship was stormy, saying: "We have not pulled punches with each other."
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>
> more
>
>

[Az]

1. There is a very basic social/cultural difference between many in the middle east and the west

That people in the west just do not understand. Justice in our thinking is deferred to the state. That is when we are wronged we may feel a sense of outrage but we have come to trust the state (relatively speaking) to provided the format by which justice is served.

This is not the same as how those in the middle east see things. Because their culture is still largely dominated by tribal thinking they have no trust in a state based governance. This most importantly extends to a sense of justice. In their view justice is a very personal thing. It is a burden and a responsibility each carry. If you or your family are harmed you personally carry a duty to see to it that justice is served. Relying on another to administer justice does nothing to mitigate this burden.

[rodeodance]

2. yes, But also the justice is/can be referred back to the tribe and revenge

is a basic way of thinking.

[bemildred]

3. Yes, yes, very difficult to find good, loyal servants in Iraq at reasonable wages. nt

[Kagemusha]

4. Professional Darwinism? Well, he just lost the dedicated Christians.

:sarcasm:

[ooglymoogly]

5. Sectarianism in this case means religionism and

we should put our own house in order before we expect the impossible from someone else. Under bushitler religion has become his prerequisite in appointing generals and high officials that surround him and not just any religion but a kind of Christian zealotry and that religious zealotry has become the elephant in the room of war politics and that boils down to an elephant soup holy war and history shows us that, that is the most dangerous kind of war to be engaged in especially when one is real and one is fake.

[AndyTiedye]

6. Seeing the Title I Thought They Were Talking About the *US* Miliatary

General Boykin has been running his part of the occupation like a Crusade.
The Fundies have pretty well taken over the US Air Force too. :scared:

[PassingFair]

7. Yes, but THAT'S different.

There is NO dispute that we are a CHRISTIAN nation.

:sarcasm:

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/buckner_tripoli.html

[dropkickpa]

8. And part of the problem is that

Many past military workers under Saddam WERE non-sectarian, but they are either considered unsuitable because of their positions under him or they've fled the country (I guarantee that many were not participants in atrocities, the military there was one of the biggest employers). Iraq is suffering a huge "brain drain" with their best thinkers etc fleeing the country. Most of whom were member of the Baath party just so they could live and function, but we've painted all members of that party with the Saddam brush when often joining was just an act of expediency. And it's not going to be any better in the future. The first mistake was US putting religious leaders in positions of power, thinking that would be good for the country. We've seen what that's done.