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seriousstan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 12:11 AM
Original message
Sex Ed for Kindergarteners 'Right Thing to Do,' Says Obama
Source: abc

ABC News' Teddy Davis and Lindsey Ellerson Report: Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., told Planned Parenthood Tuesday that sex education for kindergarteners, as long as it is "age-appropriate," is "the right thing to do."

"I remember Alan Keyes . . . I remember him using this in his campaign against me," Obama said in reference to the conservative firebrand who ran against him for the U.S. Senate in 2004. Sex education for kindergarteners had become an issue in his race against Keyes because of Obamas work on the issue as chairman of the health committee in the Illinois state Senate.

"'Barack Obama supports teaching sex education to kindergarteners,'" said Obama mimicking Keyes' distinctive style of speech. "Which -- I didnt know what to tell him (laughter)."

"But its the right thing to do," Obama continued, "to provide age-appropriate sex education, science-based sex education in schools."



Read more: http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/07/sex-ed-...
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 12:13 AM
Response to Original message
1. Ugh. I'd like to defend his dumbness, but I 'm too tired. nt.
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #1
21. LOL. Sums it up nicely. Get some well-deserved rest.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 02:05 AM
Response to Reply #1
22. Green, not dumb.
He's thinking like a good parent instead of a politician. This is where I have my problems with him, he doesn't know how to avoid traps. That's where experience is the painful teacher.
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Stuckinthebush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 05:00 AM
Response to Reply #1
33. Self delete
Edited on Thu Jul-19-07 05:47 AM by Stuckinthebush
it was snarky....sorry.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #1
50. It's not dumb, Sister
Kindergarteners need to learn about good and bad touch and respecting each others' personal space. That is not dumb at all. I could tell you stories about 5 year olds I know who have been molested that would make you cry.

But I am sure the pukes will twist this around to make it look like Obama is advocating teaching 5 year olds about intercourse.
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Zenlitened Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #50
61. "Kindergarteners need to learn about good and bad touch and respecting each others' personal space."

Exactly. I think your post, and others you've made on this thread, are exactly right. It's all about the age-appropriateness. But when the word SEX (oh, good heavens! *swoon*) gets thrown into the headline or the sound-bite... well, watch the sparks fly. So to speak.

:hi:






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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #50
65. I agree with you. Mine were certainly taught all that at home, at least. nt
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pokercat999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #50
101. Like putting condoms on bananas. You are exactly right
AGE APPROPRIATE is the key they will miss on purpose.
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-20-07 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #50
130. how bloody obvious should that be??

Well, it's as obvious as obvious can be ... how sad that there are people in a place like this who haven't figured it out already, and still don't seem to be able to grasp it when it's handed to them on a plate.

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zanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #1
74. Since when is DU conservative about sex?
Maybe when they're supporting Hillary?
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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #74
96. In case you didn't know, Hillary's view of sex ed, sexual health and abortion (safe, legal
and rare)is completely in line with Planned Parenthood's. I know because I am a former employee of Planned Parenthood of CT. Whatever else folks at DU might think of Hillary, please don't distort her stand on these issues. I carefully read her speech of a couple of years ago and saw that point by point it was the same as PP's. Not, however, Hillary's editorializing about abortion being a "tragedy for some women" which probably got some Duers riled up. But that was her own opinion.

I think it would be better to put teaching sex ed to kids of any age as something parents should do,in the context of their own values. Everyone has values, not just RWingers. That is what I remember from the PP seminars for parents that I would attend. What was also stressed was that a parent shouldn't be afraid of giving kids too much information. Mostly, kids don't get enough, but if it goes over their heads at a young age they simply get bored and change the subject. They are not "ruined" or "robbed of their innocence."
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sakabatou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 12:15 AM
Response to Original message
2. Uh....
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 12:16 AM
Response to Original message
3. Like, he's my first choice right now, but like...
...this is stupid of him to bring up. No one's going to switch to him based on it, and he's going to get attacked for it. It's unneeded controversy and bad strategy, an unnecessary vulnerability.
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silverojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 01:03 AM
Response to Reply #3
14. He'll be attacked for it
Because it's insane and it's wrong.
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Stuckinthebush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 04:52 AM
Response to Reply #14
28. No, it is not!
Insane to teach children about their bodies?

Wrong to teach children about their bodies?

What is insane and wrong is American's attitude toward their bodies.
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DangerDave921 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #28
43. WRONG
No one said it's wrong to teach kids about their bodies. The topic was SEX education, not teaching about the body. Keep in mind Kindergarten kids are 4 to 5 years old. I am the parent of two kids age 7 and 3. At age 4-5, my daughter certainly knew the difference between boys and girls, penis and vagina, etc. That's just basic anatomy. My 3-year-old son knows what his penis is.

BUT, that is a far cry from teaching sex education. Kids that age have no concept of sex so what is there to teach? They know babies grow inside mommy's tummy. Do we really need to teach a 4 year old that Daddy's wanker gets hard, it gets inserted into Mommy's vagina, semen comes out, etc. No we don't. It is simply way too much for their age-level.

This isn't about shame or repression or anything like that. It's just a matter of gearing the topic toward the appropriate age level.
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Stuckinthebush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #43
52. Read the blog entry...
It says "age appropriate".

Sex ed is a term used for lifelong education about one's body, sexuality and sex. Kindergartners are taught about their bodies in sex ed. not about "daddy's wanker".

And, yes, kids that age do have a concept about sex. They know that girls have certain parts and boys have other parts. Your post illustrates the problems with adults and sex ed for kids. You mention that "they know that babies grow inside mommy's tummy." News flash, babies grow inside mommy's uterus. Kids need to be told what a uterus is and how it is different from a "tummy".

Talking to kids at five and six about their bodies and boundaries is crucial AND age appropriate.
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DangerDave921 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #52
67. Uterus
First off, 6 year olds aren't in K-garten. Or if they are, they're kind of slow. (just kidding). The issue is when kids need to learn about this stuff. If they're going to learn about the uterus, why not learn about testicles and sperm and erections?

At age 4-5, kids are fine with the explanation that mommies and daddies love each other, and that a baby grows in mommmy's tummy. Or you can say inside mommy. If they have more questions, they can ask. Parents are more than able to teach their kids this level of sex-ed without having to teach it formally in K-garten.

Of course when we told our daughter that she was once in mommy's tummy, she sked, "Why did you eat me?" So maybe tummy isn't the best location to use! :)
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Stuckinthebush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #67
83. Yikes...don't tell my six year old she is slow!
Yes, six year olds can be in Kindergarten depending on their birthdays.

There are a number of wonderful sex ed curricula designed for 5 through 99 year olds. Sex ed is an all incompassing term that means education about one's body and sexuality. As kids get older, more information is given. It is vitally important that we tell our kids the correct names of sexual organs at a young age. We don't say an arm is a thingamabob. We shouldn't say a penis is a willy. Kids understand that renaming things can be a sign of shame.

Formal sex ed at all levels is vitally needed in this country. We should start at Kindergarten and let kids know about their bodies and about boundaries with their bodies. Too many children are victimized and sex ed at kindergarten is a good way to prevent that.

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martymar64 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-21-07 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #67
133. That's where "age appropriate" comes into play
When you took first grade math, they didn't teach logarithms or algebra, it was 1+1=2.

I think the same principle would apply with sex education at that age level. Give them just enough basics for their 5 years old minds to absorb, not jumping right into topics like orgasms or masturbation. Sex Ed can then be expanded on in later grades at age appropriate levels, just like every other subject.
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #52
90. I agree. Teaching that a fetus is growing in a "tummy" rather than a "uterus" is dishonest.
Either teach them accurately, or don't teach at all.
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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #90
99. And to be technically accurate, it should be penis and vulva, but some people
simply can't bring themselves to utter that word. I don't know why. It is perfectly correct and preferred by sex educators. Maybe we got a little more relaxed with "vagina" since "The Vagina Monologues," so now we need to fix our symmetry.
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DangerDave921 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #90
102. Dishonest?
Telling my kids that Santa Claus brings presents at xmas is dishonest too, if you want to be strict about it. Let's not be all holier-than-thou.

I have a friend who refused to breast feed her child because she said she'd be uncomfortable being naked in front of her child. Talk about repressed! Of course she's a Connecticut upper-middle class Repub.
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #102
104. Okay, but as long as we're clear that the very word "education" means to impart facts.
Edited on Thu Jul-19-07 04:46 PM by closeupready
I had sex ed in 5th grade, but had been exposed to porn long before then.
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DangerDave921 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-20-07 07:16 AM
Response to Reply #104
118. How?
How were you exposed to porn before 5th grade?

Yes, I agree education is to impart facts, but the issue is what facts should be imparted to five year olds. I think sex-ed should be for older kids.

I like Obama, but I think this comment of his is going to get a lot of focus by the groups that say we're hyper-sexualizing our children. "There's another liberal trying to indoctrinate our kids with smut and filth."
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-20-07 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #118
125. Not hardcore stuff, just playboy or penthouse. Did nothing for me.
:D Didn't even make me curious. Down at the cigar store. (Maybe that explains why I'm so crazy today. :crazy: )
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emmadoggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #43
73. Huh? Kindergarten kids are 4 to 5 years old?
Maybe it's different in other states, but around here kids MUST be five years old by Sept. 15 in order to start kindergarten that fall. My children will start kindy next month. They turned five in January. So DURING their kindergarten year, in January, they will turn six. So in response to your post a couple spots down (even though you say you were kidding), 6-year-olds in kindy are not slow, they are the norm.

Sorry to nitpick, but that just bugged me.
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DangerDave921 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #73
76. Apologies
I started K at age 4 with a September birthday, so turned 5 soon after. Now that I think about it, my daughter finished K at age 6 so I stand corrected. I guess I was just a child genius!

Didn't mean any offense. :)
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susanna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #73
116. Back in my day (early 1970s) you could start at four.
I was four when I started Kindergarten. I didn't turn five until late November of that school year. I was three in pre-school, same thing. :shrug:
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emmadoggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-20-07 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #116
127. I started kindy in the early 70's too.
I do know that other states have later birthday cut-off dates - some as late as Nov. & Dec. that I've heard of. So yeah, I guess some kids do start at 4.

I know I was nitpicking. It just struck me odd since here it has always been that kindergartners are 5-6 because of the September 15 cutoff. (Which means there might be one or two 4 year-olds in a class for the first 3 weeks of school or so til they hit their birthday.)

Sorry, didn't mean to jump on anyone's case about it, the comment about 6 year olds just bugged me. :)
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susanna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-21-07 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #127
131. No, I understand!
I actually always felt weird about it. I mean, all my friends were getting their driver's licenses and I was...uh...about a year away. That wasn't all that fun. But on the upside, I always had "older" friends. :-)
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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #43
97. See my post up thread about giving "too much" information to kids.
Mostly, as sex educators will tell you, they don't give enough. If they give too much kids lose interest in the conversation and their attention wanders. We tend to think that kids will brood and get wrong ideas if we too much info. But it should, of course, be medically accurate and in the context of the family's own values ("in our family we believe...etc"). Surely we can express our own values! And if people don't have values around these subjects, they should! My family value would be telling the truth, not lies, to the children I chose to have and raise and what is wrong with that?
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youngdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 05:51 AM
Response to Reply #14
35. Someone needs to relax
Sex isn't dirty, wrong or anything else. It is natural, desirable, and should be positive.

Teaching kids about sex at five to me isn't particularly essential, but early education is essential. Otherwise, you end up with someone carrying around shame about sex, like you, and that's no good is it?

This society shows murders on the evening news, sells plastic guns to five year olds, pays MILLIONS of dollars to boxers to beat the shit out of each other for amusement, and executes people. Perhaps there are worse things to be teaching our young children than how to have a healthy sex life. Perhaps if we did that, we would have fewer murders, fewer STD's and fewer shamed prudes going around trying to spread their misery to others who have not been similarly warped by their 'caring' parents.

Frankly, I would much rather find my son viewing porn than finding a gun in his room, or discovering he has a fascination with Ultimate Fighting or some such idiocy. I fail to find reason in people who believe that sex is a bigger threat than violence.
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Stuckinthebush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 06:11 AM
Response to Reply #35
37. Well, damn...
that might just have been the perfect response!

Thanks!
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DangerDave921 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #35
85. Porn
LOL. Wish my mom shared your openness about porn. She found a penthouse mag under my mattress when I was 15, and I don't think she was too pleased!
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youngdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #85
87. I pity your experience
My parents kept it openly around the house. Big deal. Everyone is similarly equipped. My parents focused on the important things. VIOLENCE is not acceptable. Respect is important. Fascination with the female form? TOTALLY normal.


I am not hyper sexualized as a result. I think it has the same effect on sexuality as having beer around the house does for moderate drinking. If there is no taboo attached, it is tough to 'abuse'.



If Americans would swap their beliefs and reluctance about sex and violence, our country would be FAR, FAR better off.
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DangerDave921 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #87
89. Lenny Bruce
You sound like Lenny! He, too, said that a man and woman enjoying each other sexually never hurt anyone, yet it's taboo. But kids can watch a neverending stream of war movies showing people getting shot and killed. Totally F'd up priorities. A nice big "O" never hurt anyone.

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Manifestor_of_Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #85
105. She'd rather you read Blueboy, I suppose:????
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #14
53. No it's not insane
I am an elementary school teacher and we HAVE BEEN teaching sex ed in kindergarten for as long as I can remember. They learn about good and bad touches and body parts. And some of them have already been molested. One of our kindergarteners came to school with a bruise on the roof of his mouth!! Where do you think that came from????

So no, it's not the least bit insane to teach 5 year olds the difference between right and wrong.

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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-20-07 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #14
121. What is insane or wrong about it?
As a parent, I think you're wrong if you think so.
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zanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #3
75. He's being honest; OMG!
We can't have candidates actually telling us what they think! It's bad strategy!
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #75
78. It is bad strategy.
It's really that simple. I don't even think Obama would have any control over this issue as president.
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Unreconstructed Lib Donating Member (133 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 12:19 AM
Response to Original message
4. Not only do k'garteners deserve honest answers to their sex questions...
...they also need to know that it's not their fault if they're touched in a way or in a place on their bodies, that makes them feel bad or uncomfortable and that, no matter what, they should never keep it a secret. This kind of sex ed for k'garteners should be mandatory.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. i agree, and i think this is how Obama viewed it but it's tough to discuss
because of morons like Keyes who want to distort and lie about anything for political reasons.

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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 12:22 AM
Response to Original message
6. Good for him!
He is 100% correct on this issue.
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bunkerbuster1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #6
45. Amen! Fight back!
Get your heads out of your asses, America!

(I write this as a father of an elementary school child who, for the record, has already received some public school classroom education on the subject of appropriate/inappropriate contact, taught by the the school's counseler, which I wholeheartedly support.)
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murielm99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 12:23 AM
Response to Original message
7. What is it you are supposed to tell kindergartners
about sex?

We did not talk about sex with our kindergartners. They knew that babies grew in mommies' tummies. They did not ask us anything, so we did not have any sex conversations.

My nine-year-old asked me what '69 was. I told him the sad story of the 1969 Cubs. Look on that as a cop-out if you wish, but I did not think it was appropriate to discuss oral six with a nine-year-old. He was satisfied with that answer.
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seriousstan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Don't let real life experience interfere here.
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murielm99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. Well, bless your heart.
We educated our children as questions and conversations arose.

When my middle kid was in first grade, a couple of little kids got in trouble with the principal for kissing in the tire jungle gym. I thought it was pretty innocent, but we talked about how someone might not want to be kissed by another kid, and about how the principal wanted everyone to respect each other's bodies. Kissing and affection is okay in many places, but not at school.

We talked about private places, about not allowing anyone to make them feel uncomfortable about touching them, and telling someone.

When she was a third grader, one of my daughter's classmates was raped by her uncle. The girl came to school bleeding and injured. My husband and I both spoke to our children about an adult hurting a child, about doing serious violence to a child's private places. It turned out that the school nurse had already spoken to the students in small groups. What would you have done?

We gave our kids age-appropriate sex education at home. They had classes on human reproduction and sexuality in middle school and high school. Our school district was enlightened enough that we had some AIDS educators come in and do a program on STDs. Parents were welcome to review all materials, and to sit in on the program if they chose. Actually, parents are welcome to review textbooks and materials in all areas of study, if they like. I suppose if idiot parents want to interfere in biology or literature classes, they are going to find a way to do it.

None of my children grew up to be repressed or to be sex offenders. You raise your kids, and I will raise mine.
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Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. My kids at that age were told that they grew from a seed in Mommy's tummy.
Daddy gave her the seed.

Keep it simple. Definitely.





'69 Cubs? :rofl:
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murielm99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #9
15. Yeah, I thought fast on that one.
But when my nine-year-old daughter asked me what a Lesbian was, I told her. I told her that some people fall in love with people of the same gender, and that she would meet some of them as she grew older. I told her it was perfectly acceptable to me who people fell in love with. I told her some people did not like it, but it was none of their business.

When she passed that information on to her five-year-old sister, I was not the least bit concerned about it. I just confirmed the information.
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Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #15
93. My son asked me about men marrying men and women marrying women when he was very young.
I told him that, yes, sometimes men marry men and women marry women and often a man marries a woman and all are fine (I didn't get into the complexities of what legal "marriage" means, etc.)

He's had friends with gay parents since he was in kindergarten, so it's all very everyday and ordinary to him. When he was about nine he said: "I just can't understand why some people don't like gay people! What do they care?" ... I was so proud!
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-20-07 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #93
122. That's how mine are, too. They've asked questions; they've
gotten honest (though age-appropriate) answers from me.

It's served both of them very well.
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murielm99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 02:35 AM
Response to Reply #9
23. Another good one we had here was
when my six-year-old daughter came home from school and said, "Daddy, this is my naughty finger."

Then, she promptly gave him him the finger. He freaked and told her never to do that again.

He told me about it after she went to bed. I nearly died laughing. He did not see anything humorous about it.

She had gotten in trouble on the school bus. She said that her friend Jamie had told her about her naughty finger when they were on the bus. These two six-year-olds were on the bus, giving everyone the finger. The bus driver got angry and told them to sit still and fold their hands in their laps until they both got home.

I told him he should not have gotten angry, because she had no idea what it meant. He should have told her that she already knew that it was rude to point at people. It was rude to point her middle finger too, and not to do it again. Also, he should have told her that none of her fingers were naughty. She had very nice fingers.

When I mentioned the incident to her years later, she did not remember it. She did say that Jamie's older brother had no doubt told him to do it. He loved to get his little brother in trouble.

I still think it is funny.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #9
57. That's What My Mom Told Me
As a result, I had no way of associating what the dirty old men in my life were doing to me, with anything an adult should only be doing with other adults.
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Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #57
92. Oh, wow.
:hug:
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Big Pappa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #7
19. Fast thinking
I will remember that one.
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Stuckinthebush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 04:54 AM
Response to Reply #7
29. Babies don't grow in mommy's tummy
See, that is the beginning of confusion for children. We don't tell them the truth about our bodies because we are ashamed of them.

Babies grown in a uterus. Stomachs digest food.

The stork doesn't bring babies to earth.

Kids don't need us to protect them from these things. It is adults who are fucked up about sex (pardon the pun) not kids.
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murielm99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #29
108. Gee, thanks for the education.
You are as bad as the people who teach their kids nothing.

We said it to our kids the way we did because they were very young, and we were keeping it simple. As they grew older, we substituted the technical terms and more information.

Don't you dare condescend to me. And as I said up-thread, I will raise my kids, and you raise yours. My children are neither repressed nor sex offenders. We were always very open with them.

Go insult someone else.
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CTLawGuy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-20-07 06:16 AM
Response to Reply #108
117. Well a tummy encompasses more than the stomach
I always understood it as the entire front torso area from the pelvis to the rib case.
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DangerDave921 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #7
103. LMAO
The '69 cubs! This may be the funniest post I've seen in a long time. Thanks for the laugh!

Kids will ask the weirdest things.
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LeighAnn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-21-07 02:00 AM
Response to Reply #7
132. Hear Hear!
Oh my, what a world we live in!!!

When I was 6 I could pretty much roam the neighborhood. Was warned about pervs but didn't know what any of it meant beyond "kidnapping".

My dad was very anti-pervert, and went to great lengths to protect my brother and I from that sort of thing. One time an old man who lived in the duplex next door to my grandmother was jumping up and down on his bed naked, right in front of an open window in full view of us. My dad gave him a "talking too" that I can hear to this day. Another time a fellow in a Trans Am wanted me to come see his puppies. My dad and a buddy went over to the man's house and gave him a beating, then went to the police station and cussed the cops for letting a pervert live in the small town.

Oh, the good old days.

Now a lot of people have to leave their kids with strangers for most of the day, and little kids in kindergarten are having to learn about "good touches" and "bad touches" out of necessity.

I wouldn't tell my 6-year old nuthin' about sex. Of course, neither would I let them roam the neighborhood. Or send them to school, for that matter. What a world to raise a kid in!
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WindRavenX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 12:52 AM
Response to Original message
10. ok, so what exactly is age appropriate for kindergartners?
Just wondering.

I had my first sex ed in 5th grade.
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cutlassmama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 01:26 AM
Response to Reply #10
20. it was 6th grade for me n/t
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Stuckinthebush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 04:56 AM
Response to Reply #10
30. Discussing their bodies without shame...
and understanding boundaries.

Clear and simple.
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WindRavenX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #30
94. to me, that isn't even sex ed
I have no problem with that, and I thought that was just something you, well, taught. Especially with the (sadly) role that teachers sometimes must take and report sexual assault/ abuse cases...
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Stuckinthebush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 05:02 AM
Response to Reply #10
34. See post #26
nt
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silverojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 12:59 AM
Response to Original message
12. Is he TRYING to make Hillary our next President?
Seriously, no educated person could be that frikkin' stupid. It's one thing to teach kids never to let somebody touch you in your "swimsuit areas", but sex ed for that age group is ridiculous.

Obama would be polling on a level with John McCain, if people would actually take a good hard look at his idiotic policies.
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lvx35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #12
17. Yes. Or so say my conservative co-workers.
He's raising lots of money that will go strait to her, if they are to be believed.

I laughed at them until this! :(
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Stuckinthebush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 04:58 AM
Response to Reply #12
31. Are you serious?
You don't think it is important to teach young children about their bodies?

No sex ed would teach kindergartners about oral sex or contraceptives. At that age (hence Mr. Obama's comment about "age appropriate") you teach them about their bodies.

It is amazing the amount of bad information we give children because we are ashamed of our bodies.

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silverojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 01:02 AM
Response to Original message
13. Is he TRYING to make Hillary our next President?
Seriously, no educated person could be that frikkin' stupid. It's one thing to teach kids never to let somebody touch you in your "swimsuit areas", but sex ed for that age group is ridiculous.

Obama would be polling on a level with John McCain, if people would actually take a good hard look at his idiotic policies.


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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 01:17 AM
Response to Original message
16. He could survive the sex stuff, but they'll hate him for saying it should be science based.
God made sex, after all. The Devil made science.

Bananas give me nightmares
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 01:24 AM
Response to Original message
18. Argh.When will Dems learn to automatically REFRAME rightwingnuts' statements??
Five-year-olds don't get "sex" education, they get answers as they learn to ask questions.

Where do babies come from? Mommy's tummy has a special place called a womb. How do they get there? Daddy plants a seed.

That satisfies most of them until the next time. Their attention spans are short, and they don't want to know about intercourse or DNA, they want to know where their own little selves came from.

Barack and Michelle Obama are doubtless good parents and believe in answering their little girls' questions accurately and age-appropriately -- just like my own mom did, btw -- but he has GOT to learn to reframe so he can avoid needless pitfalls.

Hekate

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Laughlandia Donating Member (19 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 02:37 AM
Response to Reply #18
24. Complete mischaracterization of the situation
hunt down and watch the video. Obama is 100% right on. The headline is misleading.
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Stuckinthebush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 04:59 AM
Response to Reply #24
32. Indeed. The outcry from some here is amazing
Obama is 100% right about this.
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #24
88. My only disagreement w/ the Obamas is in even allowing the phrase to proceed w/o vigorous challenge
That's what I meant by reframing -- the George Lakoff thing, right?

New Gingrich et al. managed to demonize our basic principles by successfully framing such things as a woman's right to bodily integrity as infanticide for convenience.

Allowing a phrase like "sex education for kindergarteners" to go unchallenged -- and worse, to engage it on an intellectual level ("scientifically based age-appropriate information") when the original appeal was to gut-level emotions -- plays into the hands of the party of Publicans & Sinners.

Hekate

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w13rd0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 03:12 AM
Response to Original message
25. Considering the fact that many parents...
...especially these days, could use appropriate sex education themselves, I find absolutely nothing wrong with his statement or his position. Children should learn a great many things starting at an early age. They should realize that there are consequences that can last a lifetime in what they choose to do with their bodies, or allow to have done to them. They should know that their bodies are their own, and that body has to last their entire life.

Sex, drugs, pharmaceuticals, diet, fruits and vegetables, sitting too close to the TV, driving too fast, driving drunk, operating heavy machinery on sleep medication, not huffing paint thinner... I would be tempted to say that at that age, it would be more appropriately called wellness education, or body education, simply because the term sex seems to frame it as kids being taught the mechanics of interpersonal intimacy, which is not what he's referring to here.

And the need to teach kids at a younger age is most certainly there, because if they don't start getting the right ideas by kintergarden, they will most definately begin getting the wrong ideas before they leave elementary school.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 04:51 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. especially with the use of the internet these days
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 06:12 AM
Response to Reply #25
38. My wife has a coworker who's pregnant, and didn't know what a fetus was.
Teenage mother. Mormon. She must have been pulled from all the sex ed classes while in school.
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #38
55. I'm sure millions of women have had babies without

knowing what a fetus is. Knowing medical terminology is not a prerequisite for parenthood.

I'd be more worried if she didn't know how she got pregnant but I think she probably does.
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Stuckinthebush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 04:46 AM
Response to Original message
26. Bravo!
Of course some DUers and many Americans will cock their heads sideways and say "what the hell we gonna teach sex to kindergartners for?"

Sex ed is best taught in a lifelong manner. In Kindergarten, one doesn't teach children about technical information but teaches two things...understanding the basics of the body. "This is a penis, not a wingy or a peepee. This is a vagina not a hooohoo" If an arm is an arm and a nose is a nose then a penis is a penis. Language is important and when we obfuscate what a certain part of the body is then it creates confusion and shame.

Secondly, sex ed for kindergartners teaches children that their bodies are their own and that they can say NO. This is vitally important because there are those out there who would confuse children about what can happen to their own bodies. When we teach young children that they can say no if someone violates their body in any way then we give them powerful tools.

I'm happy Obama is clued in here.

Signed - Stuckinthebush, certified K-2 sex educator
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #26
44. so true -- teach children of all ages to own their bodies because it's the right/safe
thing to do.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #26
66. Here's the Problem
Public schools cannot and should not be in the business of moralizing.

This is something that truly is a parent's responsibility. But we can't tell some parents that they are being irresponsible in not addressing a child's need to be taught about sexual boundaries, that would be criticizing them, and you don't get votes by criticizing.
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Stuckinthebush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #66
84. See, there is the problem
You equate discussing bodies with moralizing.

It is biological education. There is nothing moral or immoral about an arm nor is there anything moral or immoral about a penis.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #84
107. Once the concepts of sexual act and the determining pattern for them enters the equation...
morality enters field too. Suppose Miss Jones believes that girls will be more popular in school if they are willing to have sex with almost anyone. Miss Jones tells the girls in her sex ed class "Make sure to put out a lot, because if you don't do it guys won't like you." At another school Sister Bridget is telling all of the girls "Don't have sex before marriage or you'll go to hell!" Meanwhile at another school Miss Smith is saying "Although you can do what you want, I think you'll get a bad reputation if you sleep around." and the variations go on and on. By selecting any particular line to tell the children, the designer of the curriculum is by its very nature making a moral decision and teaching it from a position of authority.
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Stuckinthebush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #107
110. That's a stretch
I still contend discussion about bodies is not a moral discussion.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #110
113. It Is Intrinsically a Moral Issue
Firstly, when kids find out a new trick, they want to try it.

This is why we get stories in the news of first-graders getting head in the back of the class.

Even in the best case scenarios, when all parties are equally curious and participants, they then have to come to grips with adults freaking out and the next thing you know, one 8 year old who didn't think they were doing anything more wrong than peeking at Christmas presents is getting charged as a sex offender.

Secondly, people can and do get hurt in sexual relationships. Not hurting other people is the basis of liberal morality.
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Stuckinthebush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #113
114. You are all over the place
Discussing what a penis and vagina and uterus is with a child is not moral or immoral. It is information. We do live in a society that is fucked up beyond measure when it comes to penis and vagina and uterus and will make it a "moral" issue because they can't bear to discuss simple body parts with their children. I'll give you that.

But in reality, giving information to a child about her or his body has nothing to do with morals. It is information.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-20-07 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #114
119. They Are Not *Simple* Body Parts
They are the body parts necessary for reproduction, which happens to be at the root of our most basic, urgent, drives as a race.
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 06:02 AM
Response to Original message
36. Very bad moment... can already imagine the GOP attack ads
one more slip like this and Obama is done...
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woodsprite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 07:42 AM
Response to Reply #36
39. Could it be something as simple as "Good touch, Bad touch"?
They have taught that at the Kindergarten level for at least the past 9 years in the schools/daycares my kids have attended. There was one school district (Colonial) who said they would not teach that curriculum because they felt it made kids more curious. They felt they had enough issues with child/adult and child/child abuse. I would have thought teaching it to those kids would be even more important.
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bunkerbuster1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #39
47. Yeah.
and this is not a bad thing for Obama to bring up. I disagree wholeheartedly with the folks who see it as a mis-step.

If the likes of Rush Limbaugh want to go mano-a-mano with us on family values, I welcome that fucking fight.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 07:58 AM
Response to Original message
40. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Connie_Corleone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 08:11 AM
Response to Original message
41. ABC NEWS is taking Obama's words out of context.
Obama DID NOT say that sex education for kindergarteners was the right thing to do.

He was talking about Alan Keyes saying that Obama wants to teach sex education to kindergarteners.

Obama said that teaching age-appropriate sex education is the right thing to do. He wasn't talking about kindergarteners.

The kindergartener part was about teaching them about good touch, bad touch.

People, read the article and then email ABC News for taking Obama's words out of context.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 08:14 AM
Response to Original message
42. Obama is totaly right.
Edited on Thu Jul-19-07 08:21 AM by Odin2005
I've never understood this notion that young kids needs to be "protected" from knowledge of sex in order to protect thier supposed "innocence." Sounds like a BS notion created by Victorian Era moralists and conflicts with cultural history stuff I've read. the average European really didn't uptight about sex until the 1700s.
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 08:34 AM
Response to Original message
46. After everything the press has done, even people on DU still believe
what they tell us--hook, line, sinker. Perhaps it is because we grew up believing in the "fourth branch" of government and that the media represented our best interests--and not the republicans. They lie to us with the stories they tell, and with the stories they refuse to tell. They are shaping our perception of the world and the individuals in it. "They" are liars like Murdock and all of Bush's paid cronies.

I think the loss of the media is the worst thing that happened when we lost America to the neo-cons.
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 08:37 AM
Response to Original message
48. well...you can scratch obama's name off the ballot.
didn't the joycelyn elders episode teach him ANYTHING?
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Connie_Corleone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #48
49. The headline is wrong. Obama never said this.
Read the article or watch the video at the blog. It's quite clear that Obama was not talking about kindergarteners.
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #49
51. yes, he did.
the headline may be taken out of context- but he DID say it.
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Connie_Corleone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #51
54. Then how come later in the article it says that Obama does NOT support it?
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #54
56. do you know what the term "out of context" means?
you might want to look it up.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #56
59. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Connie_Corleone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #56
69. If you're not going to answer the question, don't respond to my posts.
That is all.
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Stuckinthebush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #48
58. Yes, for god's sake we don't need an intelligent candidate
and my lord, we certainly don't need one who mentions S-E-X!

Are Americans the stupidest people on the planet or what? Perhaps we don't deserve an Obama. We deserve a Bush.

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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #58
62. pretty much.
it's an incredibly frustrating time & place to be alive.

oh well...i guess it's still better than being some sightless crab that feeds around geo-thermal vents on the ocean floor.

in that respect, at least we got lucky when the lifeform assignments were being handed out.
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
60. He's going to have a lot of 'splaining to do. I think

parents should tell children about sex and, yes, I told mine well before kindergarten. Parents should start explaining sex early, not make it a big lecture, and discuss it often. You can't tell them once or twice and think they'll remember, because it's not a big deal to them when they're young, not as interesting as things that are part of their lives.

I would be concerned about how well sex ed would be taught in kindergarten. A teacher could give kids a bad attitude toward sex, even a fear of sex, if they sensed that she was uncomfortable talking about it. Healthy attitudes are as important, if not more important, than understanding the mechanics.

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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
63. Of course they should get age appropriate information
Our society is so obsessed with the subject it would be impossible for kindergartners not to have questions.
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robcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
64. It was an unwise statement, IMO.
I talked to my kids at that age about not accepting rides from strangers, but no "sex talk." I don't want a bureaucrat, principal or teacher deciding what is "age-appropriate" for my children at that age. I think the scientific discussion of sex is essential for high schoolers, but wtf is Obama talking about for kindergartners?

Leave my 5 or 6 year-old kids alone as far as that is concerned. Why would Obama pick that issue to discuss? What was he thinking? Was he thinking at all?
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
68. I thinks he's totally right...but it wont play well in Puritan America.
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cmd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
70. Retired kindergarten teacher here - Obama is right
The question is would you rather your child learn from other children or from an age appropriate sex education program. Trust me on this - other children are doing the teaching at this time. It's still surprises me what some of the kids came to school knowing. When I observed these little sessions happening, I interupted them and passed what occurred along to the parents. I probably didn't catch a tenth of what went on. It would be far better to have appropriate sex education.
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Stuckinthebush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #70
86. Thank you!
Voice of reason....
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denverbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
71. So Obama supports teaching kindergarteners about inappropriate touching. Stan opposes that.
God forbid we teach our kids that being sexually molested is wrong.
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Endangered Specie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
72. Looks like a media hit piece
I'm no Obama fan, but theres a difference between what they are being taught and what I would call "sex-ed".
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Connie_Corleone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
77. Obama's response to ABC News blog
(This is from CBN, but it's a fair article)

http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/198169.aspx

Here's what Obama campaign spokeswoman Jen Psaki is telling The Brody File this morning:

"Barack Obama supports sensible, community-driven education for children because, among other things, he believes it could help protect them from pedophiles. A child's knowledge of the difference between appropriate and inappropriate touching is crucial to keeping them safe from predators."

So, at this point at least, what Obama is referring to is teaching five year olds about inappropriate touching. The Obama campaign also tells The Brody File that parents would be able to opt out. As for further details, the touching aspect seems to be the main idea here. Obama doesn't want to hand out condoms to five year olds. He doesn't want cucumber demonstrations as part of show and tell. The legitimate reasonable discussion here is whether the federal government and/or local school boards should get involved in providing these five year olds information about inappropriate touching or should it be left up to families only.


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Hobarticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #77
80. That's kinda what I figured he meant...
He's too smart to trip up like that.

But I can see the MSM doing the GOP's water-carrying on this one.
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rcdean Donating Member (229 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
79. This works for him only if he follows up now to say...
...it should focus on inapppropriate touching.

I hope he ammends this fast -- before tonight's news.
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Kablooie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
81. Isn't Larry Flynt on a grammer school speaking tour right now?
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
82. Well, I agree with Obama
Family Planning begins at birth
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
91. As the daughter of a sex therapist, I'd have to say that Obama is
Edited on Thu Jul-19-07 01:01 PM by Lorien
way off on this one. My parents didn't start telling me anything about sex until I was seven or eight-and they were former hippies of the "free love" era. I know that my dad would strongly disagree with Obama; kindergarten is WAAAAYYYY too soon. Teaching young children that inappropriate touching should be reported is one thing, but the birds and the bees talk is a bit much at that age. Just let 'em be kids!
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superconnected Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
95. The headline is NOT in obamas favor and I am still NOT sure I want him
as my candidate.

Good touch bad touch education is good, but they need to say that and not SEX education which sounds like they'd be teaching the 5 yo's something else.

I wanted obama at first but now I'm convinced he's either 1. going to turn out to have a whole lot of corporate backing, or 2. be simply too DUMB to not be sunk by the repukes in the debates.

This headline is a great example.

I'm backing way away from him the way I did Hillary when it finally became too obvious to ignore. Obama isn't near that yet, but I'm not going to just "trust" him. As far as I'm concerned Kennedy is the only one who VOTES what he says. And he isn't even running. The rest of these people still look like lip service - which Hillary so blantantly shed to light on herself.
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
98. It would also empower children to speak out against abuse.
Good for Obama. Of course, the right wing will twist his words because it's what they do.
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DuaneBidoux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 04:17 PM
Response to Original message
100. If children show curiosity honesty is best but other than that this is stupid.
Age appropriate sex ed for a kindergartener is a little hard to comprehend. It has been shown that children of both sexes do masterbate at this age but I think it is best to not talk to them about it unless they start doing it in public in which case you simply say "nothing wrong with it but we do that in private not in front of strangers."

Beyond that I simply have a hard time imagining saying this in public and right or wrong this kind of comment is political suicide for Obama.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
106. Bad phrasing. This will not do good things for him.
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maximusveritas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
109. This is a smart move by him
While this specific article may make it sound bad for him, later on he'll be able to explain his position more fully and bring up the inappropriate touching point, which will gain him significant points.
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Ethelk2044 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
111. Kids need to be aware of what is right and what is wrong
We have so many sick people out there now a days.
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NotGivingUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
112. schools are supposed to teach reading, writing, & arithmetic.
parents can teach their children about sex when and how they choose.
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Exultant Democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
115. Isn't this a key tool in protecting our children from sexual predation?
Or am I on crack here? I can even understand how there is another side to this issue, first and foremost children need to be protected.
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Okiegal123 Donating Member (35 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-20-07 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
120. Children 4 years to 5 years of age and sex ed?
Children between the ages of 4 and 5 years old and sex education no matter what age appropriate skills you use to teach them is just unthinkable! We are talking about children who are still innocent and should never be pre-exposed to such education to preserve that innocence.

Children of this society has enough pre-exposure to sex and violence already I think about this and I become outraged and I ask why my first thought is this, education is to teach so one may learn about a subject and sex education is taught to teach teens or whomever not about sex perse but to teach good morals, prevention of sexually transmitted diseases, sexual crimes and so forth So I wonder what 4 or 5 year old child could understand those concepts?

I am not sure if I am expressing my thoughts as they race through my head; however, I would not be in favor teaching sex education to any child of that age. Now if we were speaking about 8 year olds to 18 year olds then yes, I could see sex education on an age appropriate level. But kindergarteners . NO
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-20-07 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #120
123. You need to read some more - even through this thread
We're not talking discussing the mechanics of intercourse here.

We're talking about awareness of their bodies, of private space, of good touch and bad touch. The things all small children NEED to know.
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Okiegal123 Donating Member (35 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-20-07 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #123
126. ...
I am still against it... I think those issues at that age should be for the parents to decide... do not get me wrong... I think all children should be protected regarding the private space, of good touch and bad touch... but I think parents are the ones responsible for exposing children of that age to that education.

Like I said earlier... maybe I am not expressing things as they should be expressed... but I do want to make it clear that I agree with your comment regarding awareness,private space, good touch and bad....
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-20-07 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #126
128. Well, the trick is the same one we have with so much else
wrt education.

There's a whole lot parents SHOULD be doing. But what happens to the kids with parents who aren't doing? What's our collective responsibility there?

It's a tough one, but I think there's plenty of room for basic lessons about space and safety to be taught in schools.
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Okiegal123 Donating Member (35 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-20-07 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #128
129. You are right...
I will agree with you on that point..."there's plenty of room for basic lessons about space and safety"....
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BigDDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-20-07 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
124. Great idea Barack!
I suggest you have your campaign make a commercial:

Sex Ed for Kindergarteners!!
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