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seriousstan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 04:22 PM
Original message
Troopers kill man in Capitol
Source: denverpost

State troopers shot and killed an unknown man who attempted to enter Gov. Bill Ritter's office inside the state capitol this afternoon.

The man, who claimed he was "the emperor," said he was going to take over the state government.

Ritter was in his office at the time but was not involved in the shooting at about 2:25 p.m. today.

State troopers, who provide security inside the statehouse, ordered the man to drop his gun. He didn't and they shot him. The man died where he fell.

"He said that he was the emperor and he was here to take over state government," said Gov. Ritter's spokesman, Evan Dreyer, who added he did not witness the shooting.



Read more: http://www.denverpost.com/ci_6388583
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OrangeCountyDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
1. EMPEROR?
They shot King George?
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Jim__ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Unfortunately, no - n/t
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
3. It's not really funny
but my mind flashed back to a book I just finished listening to. "Soon I will be invincible," by Austin Grossman. It's a bit of a superhero spoof, though not slapstick, in which half the book is narrated by the supervillain, Dr. Impossible. He was ALWAYS trying to take over the world and getting his butt kicked by the superheroes.

I can't imagine anyone WANTING to rule the world, or even Colorado. Okay, except maybe for Repugs and their ilk.

And to get killed for it? The whole story is just TOO weird.
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SayWhatYo Donating Member (991 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
4. Shooting mentally ill people?
Wow, how wonderful.
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TomInTib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. A crazy with a gun.
I don't know that they had a lot of options.

The rules of engagement in such a specific situation are pretty hardbound.
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Exultant Democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. Mentally ill people with firearms are bad news cause there is no reasoning with them
I feel for his family, but in the end the most important thing is that no one else got hurt.
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originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #4
15. Yeah, um, this nut had a gun, and I think it was justified...
this is a person with family members who are mentally ill and I fucking live in CO. You have this happen where you live and see how you feel about it.
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #4
18. After VT, I don't think armed crazies
get even a first chance, much less a second.
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Nay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #4
21. UH, Say, He had a gun and would not drop it -- in the governor's
office -- that is called "suicide by cop." There is no way a cop in his right mind would let this get any further than it did.
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Crayson Donating Member (463 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-17-07 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #21
31. Mediated suicide...
Severale such cases are known, people literally begging to be shot.
Afterwards often an empty gun is found on the body, or even letters saying sorry, but they couldn't do it themselves.

It's a kind of suicide where you put yourself in harms way and hope that it will hit you. It has a componente of "higher judgement" because you don't kill yourself, but put yourself in a situation in which you are most probably killed, or if spared you can say "it was God's will."

Weird logic, but still logic.
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seriousstan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #4
23. I guess that means your not safe. Wow, how wonderful.
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Mike Daniels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-17-07 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #4
32. If you don't drop a gun when ordered to you're pretty much responsible for what happens at that pt.
Edited on Tue Jul-17-07 09:36 AM by Mike Daniels
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thoughtanarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
5. I wonder if he was the the rightful heir...


Joshua Abraham Norton (c. 1819<2> January 8, 1880), also known as His Imperial Majesty Emperor Norton I, was a celebrated citizen of San Francisco, California who proclaimed himself "Emperor of these United States"<3> and later "Protector of Mexico" in 1859.<4> Born in London, Norton spent most of his early life in South Africa; he emigrated to San Francisco in 1849 after receiving a bequest of $40,000 from his father's estate. Norton initially made a living as a businessman, but he lost his fortune investing in Peruvian rice.<5>

After losing a lawsuit in which he tried to void his rice contract, Norton left San Francisco. He returned a few years later an eccentric and apparently mentally unbalanced man, claiming to be the emperor of the United States.<6> Although he had no political power, and his influence extended only so far as he was humored by those around him, he was treated deferentially in San Francisco, and currency issued in his name was honored in the establishments he frequented.

Though he was considered insane, or at least highly eccentric,<1> the citizens of San Francisco celebrated his regal presence and his proclamations, most famously, his "order" that the United States Congress be dissolved by force (which Congress and the U.S. Army ignored) and his numerous decrees calling for a bridge and a tunnel to be built across San Francisco Bay.<7> On January 8, 1880, Norton collapsed at a street corner, and died before he could be given medical treatment. The following day, nearly 30,000 people packed the streets of San Francisco to pay homage to Norton.<8> Norton's legacy has been immortalized in the literature of writers like Mark Twain and Robert Louis Stevenson, who based characters on him. In December 2004, a resolution was made to name the San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge in honor of Norton, but the idea did not progress further.<9>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua_A._Norton
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conspirator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
6. trigger happy madafuck*ers. Couldnt they just wound him? n/t
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INDIA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. wow, the story isn't even a couple of hours old and you already
jump to some ignorant conclusion. Chances are very good that you're DEAD ASS WRONG.

It seems likely so far, though far from certain, that if someone is trying to enter the office of a public official, while ARMED, AFTER BEING WARNED TO DROP HIS WEAPON, fire away. Those are the early reports, they could be wrong, but you are basing your opinion on ......nothing. OTher than it was troopers who shot him. and cops must be bad right?

And neither military nor police are ever trained to "shoot to wound" for what should be obvious reasons.
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conspirator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-17-07 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #9
38. OK you have all made your point. I shouldn't watch to much robocop. n/t
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skipos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. If police shot to wound him, and the man ended up shooting some innocent bystanders
the police would get sued for not trying to kill him. And a bunch of people on the internet would be calling the policemen "idiots" and "pussies" for hesitating to kill an armed, deranged man who refused to drop his gun.

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Exultant Democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Exactly.
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Bill McBlueState Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #11
27. yeah, there's nothing worse
than getting ridiculed by people on the internet. I hope it never happens to me!
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Exultant Democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. The guy had a gun out, was extremely unstable and had broadcast his
intent to kill. We call that suicide by cop for a reason.
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charlie and algernon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #13
26. and just happened to be outside the door of the Governor of Colorado
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Bragi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-17-07 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #16
34. I see...
With absolutely zero information to go on, you are moved to declare the cops heroes for using lethal force on a mentally disturbed man.

Why not wait for some facts before awarding medals, or are you convinced that anyone who wears a uniform is always in the right?

- B
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Big Pappa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #6
17. Wounded and he can still fire.
That shit is for the movies.
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WritersBlock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #6
30. No. They couldn't "just wound him." Police officers are taught to shoot to *STOP* ...


... not shoot to kill, or shoot to wound. Shoot to STOP.

And given a situation in which an officer is facing an armed assailant who refuses to drop his weapon, and who poses an immediate threat to the officer or bystanders, shooting to STOP usually means aiming at center mass, because that's the quickest way to STOP the threat.

Quite frankly, an officer who shoots to wound only places himself and bystanders in danger by doing so, because that leaves the assailant with a very real opportunity to fire his weapon.


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Mike Daniels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-17-07 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #6
35. Shoot to wound only works in movies
not real life.
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Codeine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-17-07 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #6
37. Not the sharpest knife in the drawer, are you?
"Shooting to wound" is a fantasy; limbs are small, moving targets and easily missed in a close-quarters fight. These things happen in split-seconds with the primary emotion involved being terror. Adrenaline speeds up reflexes but lowers accuracy as well, so a center-mass shot is an absolute necessity.

Besides, if they wound the fellow and he responds by blowing some old lady away you'll be talking the same stupid shit, won't you?
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Newsjock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
7. A case of domestic terrorism against a first-term Democratic governor
Say it.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. They'd sure be saying it if it were a Republican governor who was attacked.
Terra terra terra!
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seriousstan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #8
24. And they would sound just as ignorant as saying this time.
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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #7
22. You just did. First thought for me.
Democratic elected officials will have to maintain constant vigilance against the Coulter/Savage/Malkin/Beck/Limbaugh fueled loonies.

I'm not saying that was the case, this time. Just that the crazed minions are out there. MKJ
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superconnected Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
19. Meanwhile Bush has his hands on the button...
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MichiganVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
20. I thought * was in Washington...
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 07:06 PM
Response to Original message
25. Wanna bet he had no insurance and thus no medical care?
Compassionate Neo-conism at it's finest.

BHN
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area51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-17-07 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #25
36. That was my thought too.
But I thought a lot of insurance doesn't even cover mental healthcare. We need single-payer healthcare that includes mental healthcare.


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Democrats_win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
28. Too many unknows to draw many conclusions yet. Sad that this happend in our beautiful capitol.
Our capitol needs to be open and safe. Gov. Ritter was on TV and he did a good job explaining that security would be tighter while they discussed how to keep the goals of a safe yet open capitol building. The legislature is out of session for the year (by law). The building has no central air conditioning so I'm surprised that any top government official was even there.

Rightly, concern over how he ended up dead is on everyone's mind. There were witnesses and hopefully we'll learn what happened. If the Denver Police were the ones who shot him, then people would really take notice because they have a bad history. However the state patrol largely patrols the highways for speeders. Usually they are the victims of a shooter.

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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Nice summation.
Many eyes will be on this story. MKJ
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Bragi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-17-07 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
33. How'd he get a gun?
No doubt this disturbed man was yet another member of a well-organized militia, as envisioned in the second amendment.

- B
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Eugene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-17-07 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
39. AP: Man Shot at Colo. Capitol Is Identified
Source: Associated Press

Man Shot at Colo. Capitol Is Identified

Tuesday July 17, 2007 11:46 PM

By COLLEEN SLEVIN

Associated Press Writer

DENVER (AP) - A 32-year-old man who declared himself the
emperor before being shot to death by a state trooper outside
the governor's Capitol office was carrying a loaded .357 handgun,
authorities said Tuesday.

Aaron Snyder had been escorted out of Gov. Bill Ritter's office
Monday when he pulled back his coat to reveal the handgun and
moved toward a state trooper, Denver Police Chief Gerry Whitman
said. Snyder did not draw the weapon but ignored two warnings
that the trooper would fire if he did not stop.

-snip-

Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-6786532...
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