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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 12:39 PM
Original message
Judge: Army can try Watada again
Source: ArmyTimes/AP

FORT LEWIS, Wash. — Trying 1st Lt. Ehren Watada again for his refusal to deploy to Iraq won’t violate his constitutional right not to be prosecuted twice for the same crime, an Army judge ruled Friday.

Watada’s new lawyers, Kenneth Kagan and James Lobsenz, immediately filed notice they will appeal that double jeopardy ruling to the Army Court of Criminal Appeals in Arlington, Va.

Watada is charged with missing his unit’s deployment in June 2006 and with conduct unbecoming an officer for comments he made about President Bush and the Iraq war. If convicted, he could be sentenced to six years in prison and be dishonorably discharged.

The lieutenant contends the war is illegal and that he would be party to war crimes if he participated. His first trial ended in a mistrial.

Read more: http://www.armytimes.com/news/2007/07/ap_warobjectorwatada_070707/
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. we are witnessing the end of a country of laws. It is happening right in front of us
I used to think "why didn't the good germans stop Hitler?"

Now I see. Because with each new outrage one tells onself, that's as far as they will dare to go. then when the push the line out further, one becomes fatigued with being outraged.
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AandP Donating Member (84 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Isn't
Double jeopardy being tried twice for the same crime in the same jurisdiction?
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Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. It was a "mistrial"... however that was brought about by the Prosecution
Edited on Mon Jul-09-07 01:04 PM by Tom Joad
and the defense said there was no basis for it, except that the proceedings were not going well for the Prosecution,so they pressed for a mistrial. So they are saying you can't just stop a trial because things arent going well.
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. Correct. I have seen this since the day Bush Stole the Election
12/12/2000, the REAL day everything changed.

Sometimes I hate being so far ahead of the curve, of seeing what so many won;t see for years and a vast majority not until it is way too late.

We are indeed watching some variation (a kinder and gentler one) of the type of insanity and leadership and propagandistic unreality which was the Nazi Disease.

The Bushies have studied it, replicated while altering it for consumption in America, and been incredibly successful with Their Kampf.

The outcome is not yet certain, but it is going right down to the wire.
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Right to the wire indeed, Mr. Paine. The existential suspense
...is quite something!
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Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
4. support websites for Lt. Watada...
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Trillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
5. If at first you dont succeed,
try, try again. And again. And again.

The defense will likely run out of money before the government does.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
6. They will keep trying him again & again, until they get the result they want n/t
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noel adamson Donating Member (353 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
7. Military "Justice" has always been outside constitutional jurisdiction
The UCMJ, Uniform Code of Military Justice, which is the law under which our military lives and dies, is outside of the U.S. Constitution. It is based largely on military law that existed prior to the American Revolution in the British Empire if I am not mistaken.

I believe the Commander in Chief is also subject to the UCMJ and was honored by a visit from three Secret Service agents in 2005 for a website I had put up advocating that he be tried for serious breaches of that law. Primarily 3 obvious breaches of article 99;

Uniform Code of Military Justice
899. ART. 99. MISBEHAVIOR BEFORE THE ENEMY

(6) quits his place of duty to plunder or pillage;

(7) causes false alarms in any command, unit, or place under control of the armed forces;

(8) willfully fails to do his utmost to encounter, engage, capture, or destroy any enemy troops, combatants, vessels, aircraft, or any other thing, which it is his duty so to encounter, engage, capture, or destroy;...

...shall be punished by death or such punishment as a court-martial may direct.
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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. The UCMJ was adopted in 1951 replacing the Articles of War
Edited on Mon Jul-09-07 06:10 PM by happyslug
The Articles of War was adopted during the Revolution, it was a direct copy of the British Articles of War of 1773 which was an update of the Articles of War written by Oliver Cromwell during the English Civil War (c 1649). In the US the Articles of War was updated in 1806 and then Basically stayed the same with modification till the UCMJ was adopted in 1951. Please note the Articles of War ONLY applied to the Army, the Navy had a different Article of War (Which were harsher, for example In the Army you had an absolute Right to be tried by a Lawyer as your Judge, in the Navy only if one was available). The UCMJ reflects the ARMY rules not the Navy Rules do the Army rules being even then known to be fairer to enlisted personnel

The UCMJ:
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode10/usc_sup_01_10_10_A_20_II_30_47.html

The UCMJ made some long expected changes (and some reversion to Oliver Cromwell's Original Articles). For example during WWII a pro-nazi american had been drafted into the Army. He kept saying good things about Hitler while in the Army and bad things about FDR. For that he was Court Martial under right is now rewritten as § 888 of Article 88 of the UCMJ ("Contempt toward officials"). This had extended to ALL Soldiers under the Articles of War for Oliver Cromwell required this of ALL of his soldiers, but Cromwell forbade the drafting or the enlisting of people who opposed the Government, thus never an issue for Cromwell.

On the other hand during WWII the US drafted this person who was pro-Hitler and Anti-FDR. He continued to state his opposition to the Government and was tried and Convicted under the Articles of War provision. This conviction was upheld on appeal. When the UCMJ was adopted in 1951 this ban on Criticizing Government Officials was restricted to only OFFICERS (Since the US then had the Draft and you could again draft someone who opposed the President, thus Congress thought restricting speech OK for officers, who could resign, but NOT for enlistee whom may be draftees and thus FORCED to be in the Military). Rumsfield suppose to have extended it to enlisted ranks by Regulation, but the statute is still the same so ENLISTED personnel can criticize the Government, Officers can not (Without Resigning First).

Article of War (Civil War period):
http://members.aol.com/cog10thtx2/artus1.htm

Article of war June 30, 1775 Version:
http://memory.loc.gov/learn/features/timeline/amrev/contarmy/articles.html

As to the Constitution, the Articles of War come WITHIN the Constitution. Any Violation of the Constitution in the UCMJ (Or the earlier Articles of War) that violates the Constitution is Unconstitutional. The problem was when Oliver Cromwell wrote the Articles of war he wanted to Maintain discipline BUT ALSO PROHIBIT ABUSE OF HIS SOLDIERS and ABUSE BY HIS SOLDIERS. When the Constitution was adopted many of the delegates of the Constitution had SERVED under the Articles of War during the Revolution and thus took Cromwell's compromise with them to the Convention. These compromises where acceptable to them AND WRITTEN INTO THE CONSTITUTION. After Aaron Burr did his Treason in the early 1800s Congress revisited the Articles of War and rewrote them to reflect that the US Army was under the control of the President NOT independent of Congress and the PResident (Changes were minor, most articles just were re-passed). No need to rewrite the Constitution during the Civil War (Those person who were drafted rarely opposed the War and if they did could buy they way out of the Army). During WWI and WWII one grounds for NOT being Drafted was disloyalty. Thus it was rare to get someone in the Army that opposed the actions of the Government until someone idiotic draft board decided this man should be drafted. He apparently as part of the 1944 draft. What is meant by the "1944 draft" was a review of previous draft rejects. Most had been rejected in 1941 as 4F. now in 1944 with the ground War in Europe the US army needed men, and a review of those 1941 4Fs were ordered. Given the tight troop situation many people previously rejected as 4F were made 1A. You did NOT want to be in this group, many were killed in combat (and we have this man court martial ed, but the story of such 4Fs then 1As personnel is another story).

My point is the UCMJ reflects the needs of the Military while balancing the right of Soldiers. Since the Napoleonic wars most Armies consist of Draftees and the Changes from the Articles of War to the UCMJ reflects that switch. We have had a non-draftee army since the early1 1970s but the UCMJ still reflects the needs of the Draftee army. It is an attempt to balance the needs to maintain Order and discipline in the Military while preserving the right of the Solders and Sailors under the Bill of Rights.
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noel adamson Donating Member (353 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Either way I think it applies to the Commander in Chief and that
he can be tried by a military court. I believe he should be considering that so much of the worst of his crimes have involved misuse of our armed forces from his failure to defend us on September to the wasting of the lives of our military personnel entrusted to his care and the lives of the citizens of Iraq and Afghanistan. I think impeachment may be a prerequisite but the massive amount of blood on his hands is certainly a result of at least the three articles of the section of the UCMJ entitled "Misbehavior Before the Enemy"

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode10/usc_sec_10_00000899----000-.html

Added to the three I quoted above should be;

(9) does not afford all practicable relief and assistance to any troops, combatants, vessels, or aircraft of the armed forces belonging to the United States or their allies when engaged in battle;

Thank you for the lesson and the links happyslug.
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Thothmes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-10-07 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. UCMJ
The President is not a member of the Armed Forces of the United States. His Constitutional authority not withstanding, He is not subject to the UCMJ>
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maxrandb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
8. It's OK
I'm sure Bush will commute his sentence based on his service to the country.
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Kagemusha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
12. Your link's bad at the time I post this.
I'll have to assess the legal merits or lack thereof from another source. Probably not your fault, sabra - I just wanted you to know.
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