Pool Drain Pulls Small Intestine Out Of Young Girl

[RamboLiberal]

Source: WCCO 4

Minneapolis A 6-year-old Edina, Minn. girl has been hospitalized after a horrific accident at a swimming pool.

Abigail Taylor was severely injured Friday when she sat over an open drain hole in a wading pool at the Minneapolis Golf Club.

Now Abigail's father has a warning to other families: Pool and hot tub drain accidents are a hidden danger that many of us don't understand.

-----

Abigail will have to be fed intravenously for the rest of her life and will have to have a colostomy bag.

Since 1990, 170 people mostly children have been caught in drains and 27 of them have died.



Read more: http://wcco.com/topstories/local_story_185085504.html

---

We probably all remember the case John Edwards is most famous for in his law career is an exact parallel of this case - mock that Ann Coulter. This just infuriates me - why the hell by now haven't these problems been fixed and drains fixed so they cannot be without a cover? And this is a wading pool - where kids are!

BTW one of those who died is the granddaughter of James Baker - and yes they sued.

James A. Baker, III, Secretary of State under former President George Bush, and daughter-in-law Nancy Baker are supporting new legislation expected to be introduced shortly in connection with Safe Kids Week that would offer incentive grants to states that pass laws requiring safeguards to prevent drowning, drain entrapment and entanglement in swimming pools and spas.

Baker’s granddaughter, Virginia Graeme Baker, died four years ago when she became entrapped in the drain of a spa. It took several adults to help pry her free from the force of the drain, but it was to no avail. She had drowned. This tragedy occurred at a graduation party that was well supervised by scores of adults.

“We were absolutely devastated. Graeme was an angel on loan to us for seven years,” said Mr. Baker. “Before it happened I didn’t think it was possible that a child could be entrapped in the drain of a spa. I’m here to say it is possible, but it is absolutely preventable with the installation of safeguards as well as awareness by parents and pool owners.”

Secretary Baker spoke publicly for the first time about his granddaughter at the National Safe Kids Week kick-off event at the U.S. Capitol Reflecting Pool. “We hope Graeme’s story and the passage of this new legislation will help save lives.”

http://www.usa.safekids.org/tier3_cd.cfm?content_item_i...

Valerie Lakey - John Edwards case - January 11, 1997 (note 10 years ago!)

...The crowd came to watch John Edwards, a celebrated attorney, who last year was named one of the nation's eight best attorneys in the publication Lawyers Weekly USA.

Edwards is arguing this time that a large corporation should be held responsible for a faulty product and pay $42 million for negligence. What they heard was a man tortured by the recent loss of his son plead for justice on behalf of a little girl who nearly died in a freak accident and will suffer for it all of her days.

"This is it. This is her day in court," Edwards told the Superior Court jury, which begins deliberations Monday. "What you do in this courtroom will last a lifetime."

The Lakeys retained Edwards and his partner David Kirby, who argued that the pool-drain cover was faulty because it was designed only to snap into a frame, rather than to be affixed with screws.

Edwards and Kirby also argued that Sta-Rite had information on dozens of cases of suction entrapment - 13 involving pool-drain covers - and did nothing until late 1987, when it started stamping the drain covers with warnings.

http://www.monkeytime.org/lakey.html

[eShirl]

1. I'm hiding every thread title about this, I'm very squeamish

[RamboLiberal]

2. OK - but every parent who visits a public pool or a private

below ground pool needs to know about this. This shouldn't still be happening!

[Dogmudgeon]

3. I got my hand stuck in a pool drain once

Worst 30 seconds of my life, and I've been through a hate-crime mugging and an explosion.

I was convinced I wouldn't be able to get my hand free. I finally broke the pressure seal with my other thumb and got free.

I was trying to retrieve a wristwatch that eventually made it, alive, to the collector basket of the filter pump.

If you have a pool, get a safety drain cover -- if they make them yet.

--p!

[CRF450]

31. An open drain hole in a pool or spa is illegal

If it had a safety cover(which EVERY pool/spa should have!!)over it, this wouldn't have happened. Pool/spa pumps can move alot of water and people dont realize its a huge hazard untill a body part gets close enough to be entrapped over the drain hole

[texastoast]

4. God bless trial lawyers

The gunslingers for the little guy. Woo-hoo, John!

Without them, there would be no child safety seats, more exploding gas tanks, and more corporate execs who would straight face say, "Garwsh, we already spent $12 per vehicle on safety items last year. We can't make any money this way!" (From a conversation among Richard Nixon, Henry Ford, III, Lee Iacocca, and I forget who Chevy's guy was.)

[penguin7]

11. legislation and publicity are far more important than the lawyers.

The lawyers fees are just misdirected resources.

[RamboLiberal]

12. But the lawyers like Edwards are needed to pay the medical costs

this child and her parents will have to endure for the rest of her life.

[alarimer]

23. Bullshit

The companies will continue to make these dangerous products until they lose lots of money on lawsuits. Yes, some lawyer's fees seem to be extreme but they usually take these cases on contingency. They do a lot of work before they see a dime.

[RamboLiberal]

24. Doing a bit a research on this Sta-Rite

was also sued in Florida for a 2000 accident in which a teen drowned when his arm was caught in a drain and he suffered such damage he later died. The settlement was for $104 million which was thrown out as being excessive. In this case it was because the pump by Sta-Rite lacked a cut-off switch.

And Sta-Rite was also sued by the Baker family. Seems they may not have learned their lesson to do all they can to make drains safe. And if you do enough research there are ways. Every pool operator needs to make themselves aware of the danger and to make sure their pools are safe. This is the kind of accident which shouldn't keep happening. Pool drain & pump companies know the danger and if they are paying attention to their own industry pool operators have to as well. This article I'm posting is right out of Pool & Spa News an industry paper.

Most days, it’s the one image that Nancy Baker can’t seem to shake: Her 7-year-old daughter, Virginia Graeme Baker, is trapped underwater. Her eyes are closed and her arms are moving lifelessly with the current.

In a few minutes on a sunny summer day in 2002, Graeme, as she is known, passed away. The tragic incident occurred despite her mother’s desperate attempts to free her body. She was a victim of suction entrapment, a cause of violent injury and/or death that has plagued the pool industry.

“My daughter never should have died,” says the 48-year-old mother of five. “It’s catastrophic when a child dies in any way, all the more so when it’s preventable.

“I believe that every person is humane enough to know the right thing to do,” Nancy adds. “I believe that about the industry, government, homeowners and pool owners. People would not want this to happen.”

“I think the largest shortcoming of the industry is argument. I don’t understand why you argue against safety measures,” she says. “That’s the only reason that I think you need any kind of government involvement at all. There’s so much argument and no consensus. In the meantime, it’s costing us. It’s already cost me.”

http://www.poolspanews.com/2006/032/032baker.html

[alarimer]

28. Around here we have a "Committee to prevent lawsuit abuse"

I can't remember the exact name but they are big on "tort reform" and want to limit settlements in product liability lawsuits. I hate them; I just want to show them cases like this. So gruesome an injury that will require constant care for the rest of her life. that alone will cost millions, I am sure. And they want to limit the settlements to $200,000 or something. But of course these Republicans will sue as soon as something happens to them. I figure truly frivolous lawsuits will most likely be tossed out somewhere along the the line anyway.

[texastoast]

50. Actually, the legislation and publicity don't get done

It's not in the corporate interest. Trial lawyers hold their feet to the fire, and I love watching them burn. The corporatists could have avoided meeting up with the trial lawyers if they had the decency to do the right thing to begin with and put reasonable safety above profit.

[Jacobin]

74. Legislation is what enables lawyers to obtain results

for their clients. Bad legislation ('tort reform') slams the door shut on suits and makes manufacturers lax about safety.

[truthisfreedom]

5. Oh my god, how horrible! They should have cage-covers on them that prevent anything from sealing

against the edges of the hole. Also, hair can get caught in them anyway, so this is another serious concern to warn your kids about!

[Iris]

14. I wonder if this happened much before 1990?

I mean, we used to dive down to the drain all the time. I never heard of this until recently. I certainly would never let any kids do that now, but is it a case of our knowing more or something else - like the way these drains are being installed or manufactured?

[RamboLiberal]

16. Don't know but at least since 1984

From 1985 to 2004, records show that at least 33 children ages 14 and under died as a result of pool and spa entrapment, and nearly 100 children were seriously injured. But according to the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission and Safe Kids Worldwide, the number of entrapment deaths could be much higher than reported. Because entrapment is generally a little-known risk for drowning, it is possible that many drowning deaths have not been classified as entrapment.

http://www.usa.safekids.org/tier3_cd.cfm?content_item_i...

[zbdent]

18. How about since the Edwards win? As I recall ...

a grandkid of Cheney's had this happen ...

[RamboLiberal]

26. No it was James Baker's granddaughter

which I put in original post and in a subsequent post on this thread. BTW, same company Sta-Rite that was sued by Edwards was involved in the lawsuit by the Baker family. So they didn't learn from the Edward's case verdict.

[NashVegas]

67. I Think There Are More Shallow / In-Ground Wading Pools Now

There weren't so many around, before. Water parks didn't become huge until the early 1990s, did they? And spas were out of the reach of most, before easy credit.

Wading pools used to be a strictly above-ground affair, once upon a time.

[Iris]

71. that makes sense. And I'd guess more people can afford private pools now that ever before.

[BearSquirrel2]

29. What really perverse is ...

What's really perverse is that I can remember as a kid specifically playing with the drains because ... well it's different and interesting. Good thing for me the municipality was cheap and didn't spring for the REALLY powerful pumps that got the job done!!!!

[melody]

6. This is extremely important to know, especially with summer upon us

That poor baby, I hope she gets the care she needs.

God bless John Edwards and the others like him.

[Branjor]

7. How awful....

Poor Abigail.

A few years ago in my area a girl got stuck by suction on the drain of a whirlpool at a post prom party and she died. The ironic thing was that the party was adult supervised at a health club so that no kids would get hurt or killed by drinking and driving, instead a girl is killed in the whirlpool.

[superconnected]

8. Horrifying... poor child!

[Robb]

9. Technically, the water pushed, rather than the drain pulling.

Horrific.

[Bacchus39]

39. how so?

the drain created a suction. horrific indeed, but I'm just curious as to your interpretation

[Recursion]

49. From a Newtonian standpoint there's no pulling, only pushing

I assume that's what (s)he means

[penguin7]

10. So how did the millions or whatever Edwards made on the case

Help this girl?

Is another lawyer now going to make another fortune?

I see the legal system as part of the problem here, not part of the solution.

[RamboLiberal]

13. How in the hell do you think this girl and her family were

going to pay the medical costs for the rest of her life? Her family are big fans of Edwards, campaign for him and the father has a link to DU right on his own website! Hope your family never needs to pay these kind of medical cost from a preventable accident - then you might be singing a far different tune.

...After consulting with its European insurers, Sta-Rite Industries of Wisconsin decided to end the case Tuesday. The company plans to write the $25 million check by the end of the month. The unusual resolution in court let the Lakeys avoid years of appeals and let Sta-Rite avoid the prospect of punitive damages, which the jurors were scheduled to consider.

Four months after a Wake County jury gave the Raleigh family the record $25 million judgment, life has achieved a certain normalcy. "We've become more relaxed, now that we don't have the specter of the trial," Sandy Lakey said Wednesday. "It was a big part of our lives for a long time. We're glad it's over."

As Valerie tells the story, the money goes toward her care. After months of hospitalizations, operations and specialists, she is hooked up for 12 to 14 hours every night to an intravenous feeding system. She faces the possibility of an organ transplant. During the trial, Valerie suffered abdominal pain that stumped her doctors. After the trial, the Lakeys took Valerie to the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, where doctors said her gallbladder had to come out. The surgery was performed in March, and her mother says Valerie looks and feels better. "Even her teacher comments on it," Sandy Lakey said.

The jury verdict, Lakey said, has allowed her to hire private nurses...In the first weeks after the verdict, Sandy Lakey said, strangers called their home or stopped the family in grocery stores to offer encouragement. "Life's pretty much resumed a normal pace," she said. "We're plugging along, and Valerie's feeling better."


http://www.monkeytime.org/lakey.html

[penguin7]

17. And this is a good system? Relying on a lawsuit when misfortune strikes?

This lawsuit system we have is insane.

What happens when someone gets the exact same injury through no fault of their own but has noone to blame?

How come when an airline goes down and people get killed millions go to the lawyers. If society was acting in any sensible way all the money should go to the victims.

We need a system to help those you have been grieviously injured, but why one based on blame?

[zbdent]

19. Maybe since the company can only understand it when they are hit

in the pocketbook, that they will realize that their design is fatal ...

Seems that this is the only way to get the company to notice that sort of thing ... and of course, the "life is precious" and "priceless" crowd doesn't give a damn once the fetus is actually born ... or if it's from another country, right? Except to attack liberals for DDT, like one of the latest talking points, Right?

[RamboLiberal]

21. If companies owned up to their mistakes then lawyers

wouldn't be needed. But no, they try to cover-up, they lie, they don't show all the evidence. Sorry, it may not be a perfect system and lawyers may make too much money, but when it's the little guy against the big company who has ignored design defects that have injured and killed others you damn well better have a John Edwards on your side.

[iamjoy]

36. Read This, And Then Be So Clinical

Valerie: Mommy, I don't think anyone is ever going to want to marry me
Sandy: Well, Valerie, why do you say that
Valerie: Because of my button (for colostomy)
Sandy: Valerie, I'm sorry that this happened to you. I wish it had happened to me instead
Valerie: Mommy, don't say that. I never want this to happen to anybody else

Well, apparently, little Valerie didn't get her wish.

Too bad the settlement wasn't higher.

[Bigmack]

15. Better the parents should beg...

the company or entity responsible for an unsafe product for redress? (Who could possibly know that KIDS would play in a pool?)

Lawyers... from the true heroes among them, to the slimiest ambulance-chaser... are the only chance an average person has to get redress from the soul-less corporations that this peculiar brand of predatory capitalism has spawned.

Penguin7, I hope you never get screwed by a company or government entity, but if you do, maybe some lawyer can use all the education and guile (s)he has to get your side heard.

[penguin7]

20. If lawyers are our only salvation when disaster strikes, heaven help us.

There are better ways. I cannot think of a worse system.

If the problem is redress, how come so many suits are settled out of court? Certainly, if a corporation is doing wrong, how does it benefit society not to have a full investigation?

[RamboLiberal]

22. Bet you sing a different tune if you're ever wronged

by a defective product a company knew about - but then you'd never know they knew about the defect w/o a lawyer who gets the court to order them to submit all they knew. Good luck getting the good honest company to pay your medical or funeral bills and make sure you're family doesn't become destitute by the accident.

Oh and the investigation comes in many cases only because a lawyer has the staff to dig up the evidence and get company insiders and experts to testify and make the company come clean. Maybe if there are enough deaths and injuries a state or federal lawmaker or an agency may actually do something if they can get past the industry lobbyists $$$$$$$s.

Oh and they're settled out of court when the companies see a helluva lot bigger judgement coming down on them. Also they can ask for everything to be sealed to make it harder for the next victim to have a harder time finding out about the defects in their product.

You need to do more reading on some cases. Yeah there are victims who sue who shouldn't cause the accident was their own damn fault but there are products where big companies know there's a defect, deaths and injuries but it's cheaper to pay the settlements than to redesign and fix the problem. Many times each fix is cents for each product.

[Ecumenist]

30. Amen Rambo...I am in that position right now because of what a corporation

did to a family member. It's real easy to talk about what you feel about this theoretically but until you are in a situation where, at least case, a corporation does something P-U-R-P-O-S-E-L-Y that results in catastrophic injury or death and is DIRECTLY the result of their actions.

It never fails to amaze me when people make the comments like those made by Penguin and prior supreme court nominee, Bork. Funnily enough, Bork sued for damages after a slip and fall. Things flip when you're on the business end of a wrongful death and catastrophic injury things.

[FloridaJudy]

75. I also have been injured by a defective product

Whose manufacturers claim they had no way of knowing it was faulty. The problem is, these a-holes are still advertising it on their websites without warning about its hazards.

I don't expect to recover my economic losses, let alone "pain and suffering", which were considerable, but I'm still a plaintiff in a class action lawsuit. I just don't want anyone else to have to go through what I did, and the bastards who manufacture it are showing no sign of backing off their predatory marketing. Believe me, this is not frivolous. There are hundreds of us, and some have permanently lost their health or livelihoods.

[kskiska]

33. Judge Bork, Mr. Tort Reform, just sued the Yale Club

when he slipped mounting a dais.

[penguin7]

35. Cases are settled out of court so lawyers can make more money

Any case settled out of court is anathema to the whole altruistic lawyer argument. Certainly if there is no full investigation than like what the hell do we need the lawyers for in the first place?

I don't know this swimming pool case, but how come after Edwards made millions on it there were subsequent cases?

I know in the cases of the bad tires, we didnt need the lawyers to save us from them. Publicity was all that was needed. The lawyers only came in after the tires were no longer for sale.

And in medicine, there is no question that the lawyers have made it far more dangerous. Hospitals cannot be open about their errors for fear of a lawsuit. And to be open about errors is the only way for medicine to have quality control.

And as far as the criminal justice system, the verdict is damn the lawyers.

From reading the posts in this DU group I am extremely liberal. Our legal system stinks to high heaven. I dont have to be Bork to smell it.

I think we need something better than the lawyers to protect us from the corporations. Didnt a bunch of lawyers elect Bush?

[RamboLiberal]

40. No the lawyers usually make less money on a settlement

Cause usually in a jury trial the jury will come in with more money. And you really think you'll get a good settlement w/o that lawyer bargaining for you? Good luck against the squad of corporate lawyers they'll throw against little old you.

As to the bad tires - how do you think the publicity got out? Court cases started mounting up and probably some lawyers took the publicity to the news networks. Govt agencies and the news media many times react after there have been a number of court cases. My memory is the Firestone tires were still being sold and the Ford Explorers were still rolling over when the shit hit the fan with the news media.

Medicine - hah - you really are naive to think that hospitals and doctors will police themselves and admit errors w/o the threat of lawsuits. You have to be a real damn bad doctor to get kicked out by your fellow doctors and you really think the hospital will tell you they just made a big oopsie? Of course it would be too simple to say lawsuits have resulted in hospitals having quality control, but it is a factor that they do.

Yeah, reformation is needed in lawsuits but don't let our right for just damages be thrown away to protect corporations by the stupid Republicans (who btw as pointed out by Bork, Baker, and Santorum) are big hypocrites in this. They sure don't mind having their right to sue for more than the tort limits they propose.

BTW, I'm not a lawyer, never worked for one, never had a reason to sue, but I do want that right if I ever need it.

On edit - proof from testimony before a Senate committee that lawsuits against Firestone and Ford came long before any recalls. Lawsuits in many instances are the canaries in the coal mine there is a defect.

The Ford Explorer was first offered for sale in March 1990. Numerous Ford internal documents show the company engineers recommended changes to the vehicle design after it rolled over in company tests prior to introduction, but other than a few minor changes, the suspension and track width were not changed because this would have delayed the introduction date by as much as ten months. Instead, Ford, which sets the specifications for the manufacture of its tires, decided to remove air from the tires, lowering the recommended psi to 26. It appears Ford never fully tested the tires at this level. The Firestone-recommended psi molded into the tire for maximum load is 35 psi.

Within a year of introduction, lawsuits against Ford and Firestone were filed for tire failures that resulted in crashes and rollovers. At least five cases were filed by 1993, and others followed in the mid-1990s. Almost all were settled, and settled with gag orders prohibiting the attorneys and the families from disclosing information about the cases or their documentation to the public or DOT. When lawsuits are filed against a company about a safety defect, the company organizes an internal investigation to assemble information and analysis about the allegations. Top company officials are kept informed about all lawsuits against the company, particularly when they accumulate concerning one problem. There is no question the companies knew they had a problem. But they kept it secret.

During the early 1990s, Ford was concerned with improving the rolling resistance of the tires to be used on the 1995 model Explorer, apparently because of the reduced fuel economy with the low 26 psi inflation level. Changes were made to the 1995 model s suspension system, but these did not lower the center of gravity, an essential element in rollover susceptibility.

In 1996, several state agencies in Arizona began having major problems with tread separations on Firestone tires on Explorers. According to news reports, various agencies demanded new tires, and Firestone sent six engineers to Arizona to conduct an investigation of the complaints, tested the tires and asserted that the tires had been abused or under-inflated.

By the end of 1996, at least 15 lawsuits had been filed.

http://www.citizen.org/autosafety/suvsafety/ford_frston...

[penguin7]

43. Why are cases settled out of court?

Cases are settled out of court so the system can handle more cases and the lawyers can make more money. But you still have not told us how a case settled out of court benefits society.

In medicine, the problem is that the system is closed to error investigation due to lawsuits. It is not a workable system in medicine to sue over every problem. There are too many problems and too many questions. The lawyers are making medicine worse, not better. There is no doubt in my mind about this one. Medicine needs to be open about its errors. And why wouldnt a hospital police itself if the threat of lawsuits was ameliorated?

I dont have the facts in front of me on the tires, but publicity about bad tires is alot more costly to the tire companies than lawsuits.

I dont really care about putting a cap on damages. It is more important to raise the bar on the qualifications to be a lawyer. There are way too many lawyers and too many bad lawyers. Also, lawyers should be paid by the state. Why should one side in any dispute have better lawyer resources?

[RamboLiberal]

44. You sure are Pollyannish

As there are bad lawyers there are a number of bad doctors as well. And stupid practices like the one that keeps interns awake 24+ hours treating patients because "well that's the ways it's always been done - after all the old doctors train that way". And what is having at least some hospitals thinking of changing the system? Could it be a lawsuit when that patient is killed by that dead-tired intern making a grievous mistake?

You really think that hospital or doctor will admit to you that they made a mistake that injured you or your loved one? Hah, good luck digging that info out. Government regulation and the fear of lawsuits are two of the biggest reasons pushing doctors and hospitals to greater oversight and error correction. You really think the cost-cutters do this out of the goodness of their heart? Hell, right now the budget-cutters have reduced nursing staffs to untenable levels.

Yes there are probably too many lawyers - I do know there are too damn many in politics and corporate law. But as there are bad lawyers there are many good civil attornies out there.

I have a feeling you may have been on the wrong end of a lawsuit you have such a bug about lawyers.

Yeah, bad publicity to companies is not a good thing, and that is why there are so many sealed "settled" lawsuits. So there is no publicity and you and I don't know about that defective product or that bad hospital or doctor. I'd like there to be no sealed cases in this type of suit so information could be researched and found out.

Public Citizen’s analysis indicates that to limit preventable patient deaths and injury and rising health care costs, reforms should reduce medical errors and tighten lax doctor discipline and oversight.

To improve patient safety and prevent errors, Congress should establish a national mandatory adverse event reporting system so that hospitals share information that can help them correct faulty systems and practices. To combat medication errors, hospitals should invest in computer physician order entry systems. This would avoid mistakes associated with illegible handwriting and automatically check for errors or bad drug interactions. Despite a 2006 study by the Institute of Medicine concluding that medication error is one of the most common preventable mistakes and costs as much as $3.5 billion annually, fewer than five percent of hospitals have implemented such a system. Hospitals and medical practices should also limit physicians’ workweeks to reduce fatigue-induced error.

Improving physician oversight is vital to addressing the small percentage of repeat offenders who continue to practice despite being responsible for a majority of malpractice claims in America. The report documents that just 5.9 percent of doctors have been responsible for 57.8 percent of the number of malpractice payments from 1991 to 2005, with each of these doctors making at least two payments. The vast majority of doctors – 82 percent – have never had a medical malpractice payment since the NPDB was created in 1990. State medical boards, which are largely responsible for doctor discipline, should be given greater funding and staffing, and be required to provide stricter oversight to prevent dangerous doctors from practicing in their own or other states.

Greater disclosure of offenders would also provide consumers with the information necessary to make informed decisions about their health care. Congress should lift the veil of secrecy on the national database by allowing the public access to the names of doctors – which are now kept secret – and state legislatures should require state medical boards to improve their Web sites to provide better quality and accessibility of information about doctor discipline.

http://www.citizen.org/pressroom/release.cfm?ID=2351

[penguin7]

51. It happens all the time in medicine,

That the doctor or the hospital will no longer talk to the patient once a lawsuit is possible. The solution here is to get rid of the lawyers altogether. The hospitals should have their own quasi legal review board to deal with patient complaints. A medical malpractice case costs at least $50,000. For the majority of patient complaints a full blown court action is not practible. The lawyers are in the way here, and hurting everyone's health.

Lastly, cases are settled out of court because lawyers have corrupted the system.

[RamboLiberal]

54. Like I said you sure are Pollyannish

May you or your family never need a advocate on your side! I'm sure all those health care providers and corporations will be honest and upfront with you.

[penguin7]

62. Typical response

The legal system is completely broken. It is hurting many people. Right in this thread we agreed that cases shouldnt be settled out of court. I think we can also agree that one side in a dispute should not have better access to counsel than the other.

Noone is saying that we do not need lawyers. I am saying that the legal system in the U.S. is completely corrupted by greed. For example, a quasi legal review board in a hospital would be a big plus in helping us all getting better medical care. The lawyer lobby opposes this hand over fist.

We need less lawyers and less litigation. The lawyers do not produce anything, the less money that goes to lawyers the better for society.

Another example, I was a small shareholder in ADM. There was a scandal and the lawyers sued the company on behalf of the shareholders. ADM defended the suit with their money. The lawyers were paid from the company and the shareholders were screwed.

And the class action lawsuits where the lawyers make millions and the consumers get a coupon which most never use.

Why do these things happen? The legal system is completely corrupted.

And in criminal law, we have over two million people in jail and insane drug laws. You dont think the lawyers deserve a huge part of the blame here?

And in this particular case, people every day suffer horrible injuries. Why should some get multi million dollar settlements and some nothing at all. And I dont see how the lawyers huge cut here is not costing the victims. It seems to me exactly analogous to the health insurance cut on medical insurance.

We need single payer health insurance and single payer personal injury insurance. Or something because the present system is full of balogna.

Finally it is very bad for the Democratic party that the lawyer's lobby gives it so much money.

[Bridget Burke]

64. "First, lets kill all the lawyers... "

Jack Cade and plotters in Henry VI -- Kill All the Lawyers?

I've always resented that line from Shakespeare's Henry VI, until I actually read it in CONTEXT. In fact, its in PRAISE of lawyers for it is spoken in the play by "Dick the Butcher" a character who is plotting treachery and revolution and it is the lawyers - in "Dick the Butcher's" mind - who, as independent thinkers, are the defenders of the realm.

Well, there are of course, as in all professions, well behaved lawyers and ill behaved lawyers. Lawyers that would destroy us and lawyers who are indeed the protectors of freedom, justice and the values many of us hold dear.

http://leftocenter.blogspot.com/2006/02/first-lets-kill...

Bush Jr was refused entry to UT's Law School. Some say he's still bitter. What's your story?

[penguin7]

65. There are not quite enough lawyers to elect a president.

Almost, but not quite a enough.

The Democratic party would do well to recognize the problems with the legal system.

[Bridget Burke]

66. Thanks for your advice.

We will give it due consideration. That is, as much consideration as it deserves.

You've been quite critical of Edwards in other threads. If you truly prefer Kucinich, why not let us know more about his good qualities?

We've got far too many "supporters" of candidates who spend most of their time tearing down others.

Bored, now.

[penguin7]

69. Does criticism of the legal system imply criticism of Edwards?

[Bridget Burke]

70. When so man of your other posts criticize Edwards, yes!

Although the fact that he's a lawyer is your main beef. Oh, and the haircut!

I know that Kucinich has many good qualitites. I won't judge him by his "supporters."

[Name removed]

46. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wicket]

47. By the way, you may want to get your facts straight

And perhaps return to the correct message board?

LINK

The biggest case of his legal career was a 1997 product liability lawsuit against Sta-Rite, the manufacturer of a defective pool drain cover. The case involved a three-year-old girl<15> who was disemboweled by the suction power of the pool drain pump when she sat on an open pool drain whose protective cover other children at the pool had removed, after the swim club had failed to install the cover properly. Despite 12 prior suits with similar claims, Sta-Rite continued to make and sell drain covers lacking warnings. Sta-Rite protested that an additional warning would have made no difference because the pool owners already knew the importance of keeping the cover secured. In his closing arguments, Edwards spoke to the jury for an hour and a half without referring to notes. It was an emotional appeal that made reference to his son, Wade, who had been killed shortly before testimony began in the trial. Mark Dayton, editor of North Carolina Lawyers Weekly, would later call it "the most impressive legal performance I have ever seen."<16> The jury awarded the family $25 million, the largest personal injury award in North Carolina history. The company settled for the $25 million while the jury was deliberating additional punitive damages, rather than risk losing an appeal. For their part in this case, Edwards and law partner David Kirby earned the Association of Trial Lawyers of America's national award for public service.<13> The family said that they hired Edwards over other attorneys because he alone had offered to accept a smaller percentage as fee unless the settlement was unexpectedly high, while all of the other lawyers they spoke with said they required the full one-third fee. The size of the settlement was unprecedented and Edwards did receive the standard one-third plus expenses fee typical of contingency cases. The family was so impressed with his intelligence and commitment<12> that they volunteered for his Senate campaign the next year.

[penguin7]

52. They showed the Pool cover on TV.

I don't know this case at all, but like how were they supposed to design this pump any different?

I think we had a case here where the jury felt sorry for the victim which is natural. Is this a case about a warning like the McDonald case?

[RamboLiberal]

55. There are ways to design pool drains that they don't suck the intestines

out of kids sitting on them in the friggin' wading pool. Like 4 year olds & their parents should know, don't sit on the drains! And I've come to the conclusion you are either very naïve or just dense!

The pool industry is well aware of the problem and there are fixes - you'd think every pool, especially wading pools would have been fixed more than 10 years after the Valerie Lakey case. Bet the Lakey family and John Edwards are feeling horror and anger that this has happened once again to a innocent child.

Rep Debbie Wasserman-Schultz introduced a bill last June to prevent this - maybe now it will pass!

Federal legislation expected to pass this year is aimed at preventing tragedies, said U.S. Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, D-Fla., who sponsored the bill.

Multiple drains, which break up the force of the suction , would be required for new commercial and residential pools. And anti-entrapment drain covers would be required on all new pools, hot tubs and spas.

New drain covers, which cost $35 to $50, are simple to replace.

"There are more than 6 million pools in this country, and if you look at the vast majority of them, they've got the wrong kind of drain covers," said Alan Korn, director of Safe Kids Worldwide, an agency that works to prevent accidental death and injury of children. "They are flush to the bottom of the pool," rather than being configured to prevent suction from forming.

A more expensive but effective protection is the safety vacuum release system, which can sense if something is being caught in the drain and immediately turns it off. Those are installed outside the pool and cost $500 to $700.

http://www.twincities.com/allheadlines/ci_6293513

So a child's life or intestines aren't worth not quite $800! And now this golf club and the pool drain manufacturer will probably have to pay millions and justly to this family for a lifetime of medical care. And what a great life to never be able to eat again, and to be tied to a feeding tube for 12-14 hours every day!

[wicket]

60. Nice dodge!

Your MO is very telling

[ret5hd]

34. You can't think of a worse system??? Are you purposely obtuse?

What about a system just like the one we have now...but no lawyers (for your side. If you think corporations aren't gonna have lawyers, i don't even know what planet you are from)

[penguin7]

37. OK

I can think of a worse system.

[penguin7]

38. What if the state pays for the lawyers for both sides?

Now that would immediately be a better system.

[Nevernose]

42. In theory, yes.

Until you look at our criminal justice system. Public defenders often aren't paid as much as DAs or SAs.

I can't see out government hiring the same high-quality litigators who work against the "corporate good" as it does FOR them, especially since, at least since Coolidge, Republicans apparently believe that "the business of government is business."

It also would require so much more regulation than our government is willing to put up with it's not even funny...

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Blue_Tires]

25. wow

all this time i thought stories like these were urban legends...very sad situation

[BearSquirrel2]

27. It's so sad that ....

It's so sad that Republicans will let thousands be mamed under the banner of caveat em'tor and free market jibberish until one of their own is harmed. Even Trent Lott is suing the insurance industry over fullfilling their policies in the gulf.

Some of these guys even MEAN what they're saying instead of just trying to get money. One would have wished that they would have a little more empathy before so all the other victims were more then pawns to their own selfish justice.

[BlueIris]

32. I first started warning folks with kids about these kinds of accidents five years ago.

When I began reading about the high number of bizarre injuries that occur in swimming pools, and not just to children. Kids under 10 are especially at risk.

[CBHagman]

41. That's too horrible for words.

The first thing I thought of was the case Edwards had handled. I had no idea, however, that James Baker and his family had faced such an incident personally.

[Catchawave]

45. Salon: The GOP War on Trial Lawyers

good article!

http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2004/07/13/lawy...

[Iris]

53. makes sense. They want to be sure their corporate sponsors can make money any way they know how.

[HuffleClaw]

56. like EVERY other similar case, the industry involved will have to be regulated before...

...it acts. and it always takes deaths for them to act. it seems also that only when the cost of NOT acting exceeds the cost of acting in the consumers best interest that they will finally do the 'right thing'.

[RamboLiberal]

57. I think a lot of the big waterparks & public pools have

very likely made the fix. But some public & private pools like this Golf club have not. Not saying there's an excuse - the industry is well aware of this problem and it is discussed within the industry. I posted an article about the Baker child's death from one of the industry newsletters in one of the threads here on DU.

[RamboLiberal]

58. Surprise, Surprise - Damn Repukes voted against bill

last year sponsored by Rep Debbie Wasserman-Schultz that would've covered this problem. Ironically Rep. Wasserman-Schultz reintroduced this bill in May of this year. Bet it passes now. BTW, Graeme Baker and James Baker, mother and grandfather of Baker child who died in just such an pool drain accident were there and instrumental in backing Rep Wasserman-Schultz's bill. BTW, sponsor in the Senate was George "Macaca" Allen.

National Pool Safety Bill Reintroduced

By Rebecca Robledo

May 7, 2007

The first federal pool safety bill in U.S. history has been reintroduced in Congress.

The Pool and Spa Safety Act (HR 1721) is sponsored by U.S. Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-Fla.). The legislation proposes that the Consumer Product Safety Commission distribute federal grants to states that implement drowning- and entrapment-prevention laws and education programs. The bill specifies how the grant money should be spent, with all going toward enforcement, education and training in the law.

The law also would mandate that all pool and spa drain covers sold in the United States meet the entrapment-protection standards outlined in the ASME/ANSI A112.19.8 standard.

Last year’s version of the bill failed by nine votes during the final hours that the House of Representatives was in session. Now it has until the end of this session, in late 2008, to pass.

http://s2.poolspanews.com/2007/051/051topnews.html

[laureloak]

59. To get back at John Edwards, no doubt.

Since his first big case was about just such an accident.

[napi21]

61. Do you know the bill # and the vote results?

I would like to contact my Rep. about this, but I want to know how he voted first. If he voted against it, I want to be able to smack him around for doing so!

[RamboLiberal]

63. S. 3718 [109th]: Pool and Spa Safety Act

Votes: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2006-542 Almost all the Nays were Repuke - only 1 Dem Nay. Shame is a number of Dems didn't vote which IMHO makes them almost equally guilty. But 107 Repukes voted to continue to allow kid's intestines to be sucked out and for others to drown cause they couldn't pull free of a drain.

S. 3718 <109th>: Pool and Spa Safety Act (Vote On Passage) - this was a roll call vote on cutting debate needing a 2/3rds majority.

Dec 9, 2006: This bill failed in the House of Representatives by roll call vote. The vote was held under a suspension of the rules to cut debate short and pass the bill, needing a two-thirds majority. The totals were 191 Ayes, 108 Nays, 134 Present/Not Voting.

[napi21]

73. Thank you for the info. I just sent a nastygram to Deal, and

promised that I will vote AGAINST every incumbant and do my best to encourage everyone I know to do the same!

Nathan usually does respond when I contact him, and I can't wait to hear how he's going to spin this one!

[RamboLiberal]

68. A bit more info

If so, the scenario of the injury fits a pattern that the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission warned about in a 2005 report, Guidelines for Entrapment Hazards: Making Pools and Spas Safer.

According to the report, if a child sits on an open drain, the suction, which can reach several hundred pounds per square inch, can rupture the rectum and eviscerate the child in a matter of seconds.

There have been three such incidents since 1990, none of which were fatal. The most recent was two years ago when a 3-year-old was disemboweled by a hot tub drain.

None of those accidents was fatal, although in the same time span 13 people, most of them children, drowned after being caught in underwater drains.

http://www.star-telegram.com/national_news/story/160500...

[RamboLiberal]

72. Ramstad, Klobuchar call for pool safety improvements

http://www.startribune.com/462/story/1288289.html

Two members of Minnesota's Congressional delegation are calling for passage of a federal pool safety law in the wake of a pool-drain accident that severely injured a 6-year-old Edina girl last week.

Rep. Jim Ramstad said today he and Sen. Amy Klobuchar are co-sponsoring legislation that would require safety measures to ensure that no children get caught or stuck in pool drains again.

"This devastating, life-changing injury to 6-year-old Abigail Taylor ... should never happen again," Ramstad said this morning. Ramstad said he and Klobuchar are preparing a joint press conference to push for the legislation.

Ramstad, a Republican, said he signed on as a sponsor of the legislation this week, after news of Abigail's injury. He also sent a letter to all 435 colleagues in the U.S. House of Representatives, urging passage of the safety law, which would encourage states to require pools to install drain covers to prevent children from becoming entrapped.

----

Ramstad said he believes Abigail's tragedy could spur passage of the safety bill, which was introduced last year. "Believe me, if Amy and I have anything to say about it, this will reignite this legislation and we'll get a vote immediately," he said.

BTW, Ramstad was one of the few Repubs who voted Yes on Wasserman-Schultz bill last year.