Dems to send Bush no-timeline war bill

[Bleacher Creature]

Source: AP

By DAVID ESPO, AP Special Correspondent
4 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - In grudging concessions to President Bush, Democrats intend to draft an Iraq war-funding bill without a timeline for the withdrawal of U.S. troops and shorn of billions of dollars in spending on domestic programs, officials said Monday.

The legislation would include the first federal minimum wage increase in more than a decade, a top priority for the Democrats who took control of Congress in January, the officials added.

While details remain subject to change, the measure is designed to close the books by Friday on a bruising veto fight between Bush and the Democratic-controlled Congress over the war. It would provide funds for military operations in Iraq through Sept. 30, the end of the fiscal year.

Democrats in both houses are expected to seek other opportunities later this year to challenge Bush's handling of the unpopular conflict.



Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070521/ap_on_go_co/us_iraq

---

On edit: While I'm thrilled that they are pushing forward on the minimum wage hike, they essentially caved on Iraq. And to those who say that it's only until September, that's when the fiscal year ends -- so that's the longest it could be. What a joke. Way to be two years behind the public -- again!

[shanti]

1. why?????

:grr:

[Tesha]

30. It's what they do. And as long as we say "Always vote for the Democrat"...

> Why?????

It's what they do. And as long as we say keep saying
"Always vote for the Democrat" (no matter what they do
or don't do once in office), it's what they'll keep doing:
caving in to the "easy move" instead of standing tough for
what's right.

Tesha

[Connie_Corleone]

2. They rolled over and played dead. nt

[Horse with no Name]

3. So we traded soldiers lives for a pay increase?

These are both important issues that we need to win on.
I guess we know now why the Republicans blocked it.
Color me sooo disillusioned.

[BOSSHOG]

4. Maybe not a cave

- Through September?? Gen Petraeus goes to the podium and gives us a progress report in September, then what?
- bush supporting a raise in minimum wage? Wow, those who hate in the name of jesus christ won't like that.


I'd rather the dems say fuck you bush, do whatever you want its your war and your parties war. Every republican running for reelection can go home and explain this war to their constituents. The pressure on bush will soon come from his own house.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

20. What about the "signing statement"?

He'll do it. You know it.

[Zynx]

74. What sort of "signing statement?" President can't print money.

If money is only there through Sept 30, that's all the money there is.

[Toots]

77. How many people will die in the next five months in Iraq?

And you are absolutely dreaming if you think they will suddenly get enough spine to stop the war after September. The USA is in Iraq to stay, get used to it... Nader was thinking very clearly when he said there was hardly any difference between the parties...I have yet to be shown that he was wrong in any manner..Yes there are committee hearing but what results are there? Scandals get covered up quicker than they are exposed..

[sellitman]

5. Fuckers!

God Dam mother fucking son of bitches.

:grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr:

[Dhalgren]

6. Democrats are using the Iraqi Occupation for political gain.

It is more important to be able to say they worked against the occupation than to run any kind of risk at actually stopping it. With this funding bill, the Republicans can (and will) say that the Democrats support the occupation. How can they say they are for ending the Occupation if they continue to fund it? The Democrats in congress support the Iraqi Occupation. There are two "War Parties" in congress, apparently...

[Mojorabbit]

71. Election coming up

If we leave and a huge civil war explodes even more than now then it will be the "dems fault" trumpeted by republicans all over the airwaves all the while saying if we had stayed longer we could have won. They won't push it. The next president will have to do it. Politics while the youngsters die.

[DrDan]

7. cowards

Come ask me for a contribution you cowards . . .

more promises from them it appears . . . always time to campaign - so little time to legislate

[grilled onions]

8. Does Anyone Represent Us Anymore????

We keep hearing about the majority of citizens who are against the war,want to end it and bring the troops home. Yet neither party seems to be in any hurry to make that happen. :grr:

[StarryNite]

10. It doesn't appear so.

Methinks our Dems in Washington need to wipe the brown smudges off of their lips.

[Decruiter]

66. Since you brought it up...

http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/51687
Tension Mounts as Antiwar Movement Challenges Dems' Commitment to Stop the War

[Trillo]

9. Minimum wage needs to be at least $20 per hour

based upon relative time spent sitting in a K-12 classroom seat versus those of "professional" pay levels (college).

[montanacowboy]

11. No surprise here

They want to get home for the break, so let's just cave as usual

Fuck them all
Bushco and Rover must be laffing their asses off in the Oval office; These Dems can't even wipe their asses, what a bunch of cowards and losers

Can you imagine how this will be represented by the talking heads? We just keep giving them the ammo they need to bury us

Come 2008 it might be the first election I have sat out in my life

Totally disgusted and fed up

[pwb]

12. We need 2/3 to stop the war.

even more democrats need to be elected in 08 to override the neocons veto. This is a good bill if it raises the minimum wage and forces the war funding in the regular budget in Octobers new budget. No more emergency war funding after 5 years of war.
i want peace now too, but you want the impossible regarding the current congress. a majority is not enough we need 2/3's. lets work on that for 08.

[Truth2Tell]

55. Not true.

We only need 51 in the Senate to NOT send a bill. No worries about a veto then.

And really, we only need 34 to filibuster any bill.

And it's a no-brainer to defend politically.

Democrats need to stop being afraid of being accused of "not supporting the troops". That dog no longer hunts with the public.

Stop the money. Stop the war.

[sampsonblk]

67. No

If we pass nothing, Bush can't override that.

[kimmylavin]

13. Way to cave.

And we elected them, why?

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Doubtful Optimist]

15. Is this what Nancy Pelosi calls leadership?

Nothing's been accomplished from her 'First 100 Hours' nonsense.

She's backpedaling on this issue.

Is this what we can expect for the 18 months?

[Ekirh]

16. First glad we're going to get the minimum wage hike . .

Although I don't think that's enough . .

But dear god, was that new backbone short lived. . .

[bluestateguy]

17. They are afraid of a president with a 30% approval rating

I mean if they don't give Bush his war money Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity might say mean things about them.

[earthside]

35. Congress at 32%

This is why the approval rating for Congress is already going down -- because we all knew that the odds were that they would cave-in to Bush.

The Democrats in leadership need to learn that the American people respect guts and courage, even if Slime-baugh and Slant-head might say mean things about them.

This is a big mistake. They should have at least stuck to the two month appropriation plan that the House passed.

Meanwhile, the GIs keep getting killed and wounded and Iraqi civilians keep getting killed.

Yup, a big mistake.

[magellan]

54. Yep, I wrote the same a few weeks ago

More of the same is NOT what they were elected for. Their approval rating will continue to slide until they find their spines.

[Rydz777]

18. It is a terrible mistake to cave to Bush. Not only does it

let him continue to run our troops up and down slaughter alleys, but it is an awful political mistake as well. It will mean that Bush will dump this festering sore right into the lap of the new Democratic President in January 2009. That will take all the oxygen out of the beginning of the new administration.

[damntexdem]

19. This one needs to be blocked!

If antiwar Dems can do it, they should.

I hope the pay raise in the bill is one the WH will still oppose, so GOP Congress members will. If so, a coalition of antiwar Dems might be able to vote no with enough Republicans to kill this bill.

[Massachusetts]

21. Got spine?

They're still lookin for some.

[Triana]

22. This is just exactly the OPPOSITE of what they SHOULD have done!!

GOD! I can't BELIEVE they are SO stupid and spineless!!

What they SHOULD have done was leave EVERY iota of domestic spending IN, the TIMELINES IN and let the little monkey veto it AGAIN...and AGAIN and AGAIN...

Then when he whines about "Democrats won't come up with funding for the troops" - Democrats can state the TRUTH which is that bu$hit keeps VETOING the damn funding!

WHY OH WHY do they play these games with a PSYCHOPATH!!

[rodeodance]

23. although it was not clear whether Democrats intended to give Bush power to order the aid to be spent

Failure to make progress toward the goals could cost the Iraqis some of the reconstruction aid the United States has promised, although it was not clear whether Democrats intended to give Bush power to order the aid to be spent regardless of progress.

Several officials said it was possible that Democrats would attempt to draft a second bill, to include much of the domestic spending that Bush and congressional Republicans have said they oppose.

Either way, Democratic leaders have said they hope to clear a war spending bill through both houses of Congress and send it to Bush's desk by week's end. They added the intention was to avoid a veto.

[Robbien]

24. I keep hoping this is all a mistake because it makes no sense

They could do absolutely nothing about this "emergency" funding and let the bill die and they would be a head of the game.

I keep thinking AIPAC is pulling strings here.

[rodeodance]

25. i feel so let down--angry!!

[Zenlitened]

26. "Anonymous Democratic officials said..."

I don't know what to make of this article. Are Dems actually caving? Is the Associated Press making shit up? Are Dem operatives floating this story for some sort of chess grandmaster-like reasons I can't even begin to comprehend?

I dunno. :shrug:

Sure hope it's not true. I'm going to try to reserve judgement until something more concrete comes along.

[uppityperson]

36. Good question, consider the source. Will be watching for more info.

[Blackhatjack]

27. If this passes the Dem Approval Rating will sink like a rock....

... it does not take a genius to figure out what the 2006 election results were communicating to the Democrats --end this war and bring the troops home now.

To cave to Bush on this is a major defeat and a slap in the face of the voters that gave the Democrats power.

Conventional thinking will certainly gravitate to the old adage that it does matter who you vote for --they are all the same anyway.

John Edwards was right. THey should have sent him the same bill back and made him veto it over and over AND advertise to the public that he Democrats have approved funding of the troops and the President won't sign the bill.

[Dark]

70. The Dems approval ratings already have. nt

[leftchick]

28. he has a 28% approval rating and they cave yet again

color me not shocked at all. :puke:

[depakid]

33. "color me not shocked at all."

As I mentioned last November, Zebra's don't change their stripes- and people who think that the leadership is going to change the shameful way its behaved over the past 7 years will be disappointed.

I fully expect to see more caving and enabling in the nest several months... part of which is due, of course, to the party's inability to discipline its members when they legitimize far right policies.

[caraher]

29. Total betrayal

If this is true it's a complete betrayal of everything voters asked for last November. And we can kiss 2008 goodbye. You cannot take the defining issue of our day and turn it into a bargaining chip. Yes, we need a minimum wage increase, but this is rubbish. What's next? Maybe we can agree not to press for action on global warming in exchange for a pledge not to try to overturn Roe v. Wade?

I hope this story does not pan out. If it does prove accurate the "leadership" is guilty of an arrogance and insincerity that rivals that of the Bush/Cheney junta.

[countingbluecars]

31. I feel sick.

If this happens, we own the war.

[BrokenBeyondRepair]

32. complicit

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[brentspeak]

42. Uh, yeah

:eyes:

[ShortnFiery]

37. Need any more proof that "the D.C. political elites" - no matter the flavor, all play for the ...

same Corporate Loving', Military Industrial Complex nurturing TEAM? :grr:

Damn them! With very few exceptions, we need to wash out this entire batch of Congress Critters.

Vote Out Incumbents Democracy http://voidnow.org/

Good democracy requires voting out bad politicians. :patriot:

BTW "bad politicians" include the gutless wonder democratic representatives in our present Congress.

[anotherdrew]

38. that IS IT. the democratic party is OVER. last one out, turn off the lights

these spineless fucking jellyfish can go to hell. I'm done. not one more cent. not one more second.

America is dead, and I'm going to stop giving a shit.

[Freddie Stubbs]

85. The Democratic Party is more than a one-issue party

It existed long before this war and will endure long after it.

[anotherdrew]

88. first - it's an occupation not a war, second, you really think it's ending in our lifetimes?

this is the only issue that matters one damn bit, if we can't stop this ongoing crime against humanity, what difference does anything make? We've got one chance to avoid the blood of a million (or more) Iraqis on all our hands and that is to make it top priority to get the country out and bring the criminals to justice.

I haven't seen any indication that our "leadership" is even remotely prepared to LEAD on this matter. I don't give a damn if the majority doesn't see it that way, my tax dollars and my country have committed the ultimate crime of making war against a country that hadn't threatened us, in order to secure their resources for ourselves. Remember that and try to give a shit.

[Solly Mack]

39. I think we should build a huge altar and just offer up sacrifices to Bush

here at home.

Just toss people onto the burning timbers and chant, "We believe"


No more pointless than sending people to Iraq to kill and be killed...but maybe just a little more honest.

[tavalon]

46. We can kill them here so we don't have to kill them there?

Honesty is not something that this administration has even a passing acquaintance with.

[Solly Mack]

49. Exactly! You understand that it makes about as much sense

[libodem]

40. I wouldn't give him ten bucks

Halliburton and Blackwater ought to return their over-charges and we would have enough left over to wall up Baghdad, and to bomb Iran, too. Throw in, a big tent, to Syria, for the refuges. Who says all hat and no cattle. This little cowboy plays with the big boys.

[anotherdrew]

41. what a total betrayal. Pelosi and the rest can go to hell. fucking liers every one

this is what we've worked our asses off for for 6 fucking years?!?!?! to hell with this.

[rudy23]

43. Republicans=bad cop, Democrats=good cop, Feingold & Kucinich=

there to convince us eggheads we still live in a democracy.

[info being]

80. Well said

All we have is our freedom of thought...so we can watch with complete understanding as our world is destroyed by those in control.

[EndElectoral]

44. Timelines were a minimum..and they're caving on that!!! WTF!!!!

[Honeycombe8]

45. Weaklings. Pure d-weaklings. I've lost whatever respect I had for them.

I don't know exactly what I expected them to do, but I expected something other than simply giving the administration what it wanted, the same as the old Congress would have.

I can only hope there's a game plan in back of this.

I have heard some speculate that it's important that the Democrats not end up owning the war at this point, so that the mess can be blamed on them. It's important for the upcoming election that the Republicans continue to own the war, since everyone expects it only to get worse, or at best, stay the same nightmare that it is.

Still, I expected.....something.

[superconnected]

47. So I guess the original bills were to *humor us*, it's a sell out

they knew would happen.

[flyarm]

48. no more money from me..i am done!!..and i am not kidding! eom

[flyarm]

52. i just called pelosi's office and said the dems will not get another penny from me!!

not another red cent!!

fly

[madamesilverspurs]

50. Does the bill

at least incorporate the pay raises for the military that George "Support the Troops!" Bush insists they aren't entitled to?

[superconnected]

51. Dear Nancy Pelosy. Here is the answer to Iraq.

1. You have to read the social contract. It's how governments are formed. All governments. You know How Machiavellis Prince is how countries are conqured? Well think of the Social contract as the known time tested way that all governments are formed. Jefferson used it when designing the US constitution.

2. You have to get the iraqis to buy off on the social contract(constitution). Without that there will be chaos and no real government until a dictator successfully takes over and institutes one by force. They have not bought off on the current contract.

3. You have to realize that the Iraqis were in a civilized society before we attacked them and they can go back to one. They want to go back to one.

4. You have to realize that Americas great failure was not leaving them a social contract they could use. We left them a partisan feudal gov. Without a buy off on both sides(where the suni and Shia agree to follow the constitution), peace in iraq cannot exist.

5. No amount of soldiers are going to stablize iraq. Only a contract for government that the iraqis are willing to commit to. So get rid of the soldiers. We need Statesmen to put that place together. Iraq does not have a government worth defending because it is not a government the people - (both sides) support. When the people support a constitution, they will be willing to die to protect it.

6. It doesn't matter whether the next government is a dictatorship, king, democracy, marixist or theocracy. In order for peace, all that matters is the people buy off on it. If the sunis and shia can't agree, then Iraq will need to be divided into two iraqs.

7. Recognize that since most college educated individuals learn this in school, it looks like the whole reason iraq is not at peace right now is the US government doesn't want them to have a social contract - a gov the people support. That's so that the war can go on to benefit the United States defense industry. There is no other reason for the iraq war. The people aware of what it takes to bring peace to Iraq exist in every university in the world, and in many politicians that are even moderately educated.

8. Now get some statesmen, bring both sides together and let them write a real constitution, they can uphold.

[keopeli]

53. In the 08 election, there will be ONE question: What did you do to stop the Iraq War?

Given the total lack of leadership by the Democrats, including Pelosi & Reid, to put an end to Bush's Iraq War, it is now possible to predict a Republic victory in 08 both for President and Congress.

This is the issue that will lose the election for the Democrats - not the Atty. General crisis, not minimum wage, not health care. The 08 election will be decided on Iraq. If the Dems do NOTHING (which is apparently the plan), any Dem candidate holding office will be unelectable as President. Imagine the questions: if you are so opposed to the Iraq War, why did you vote to fund it as recently as last year? Answer: There was nothing I could do (bullshit!). It was Bush's fault (not anymore!). I was against the war before I was for the war before I was against the war (yeah, right!).

That means, no Obama and no Clinton (both senators). I, personally, refuse to vote for a hypocrite in Congress who says one thing and then votes to kill more of our soldiers. Even if they vote against the war funding bill (I'm sure they all will), that is just show. Leaders would act decisively - not let others decide our fate.

God help us. This will be the end of the Democrat's chances. If they make no move to stop the Iraq War in 2007, then they will lose in 08. After all this work, years of screaming, it comes down to this: Democrats are pussy-wimps. Don't fain denial - it's apparent for all to see. The Constitution gave the power to declare and fund wars to the Congress and, this Congress is doing NOTHING to stop it. ZERO! ZILCH!

I'm so upset, I'm beside myself. I know Democrats are pussy wimps, but I really thought (hoped) Reid and Pelosi would stand up to Bush. I guess it was just wishful thinking.

God save our poor soldiers and the helpless Iraqi people. God save our children who will die in mass numbers as a result of this illegal war. God forgive us for being so morally bankrupt.

Peace.

[superconnected]

58. What needs to happen is collusion has to stop between politicians and

Companies.

This won't happen at the congressional level because congress will never vote to stop it.

But it can happen at the state level since we vote to elect those politicians.

A prison sentence for collusion, is all this really needs.

Any good company has rules in places where workers are not allowed to accept gifts - financial or otherwise. Those rules are in place for a reason. States need to instill them for their congressional candidates.

[BlueStater]

73. I have no idea what's going to happen

But all the optimism I felt six months ago is quickly being drained away from me. I'm so angry right now I could scream.

[peaches2003]

56. Let him veto!

The Dems do NOT need 60 votes. Pass the bill with the timeline and let him veto. Then blame Bush for not giving the troops their money. Pass it again and let him veto it again. Bush is the one blocking the $$$ for the troops.

The problem is the Dems don't have anyone who can say it and make it stick. Sorry, I know you all love Harry Reid and he may be the best leader within the Senate. But he is a lousy spokesman to the American people. He gets tuned out. It should be easy to tell a public that is only 28% for Bush and the war that it is he who is blocking the money in the bills that the Congress passes. Bush laughs because he knows Congress will cave.

[Truth2Tell]

57. Lets see, a $2.10 raise in the minimum wage

in exchange for six months more of Iarq warring.

If present trends continue, I calculate that's about one dead American soldier for every 2 cents worth of wage increase, and about 200 dead Iraqis per every 1 cent of wage increase.

[superconnected]

59. He'll do it as long as United Defense, Bechtel and Halliburton

get their war funds out of our treasury.

He's always spent money like a drunken sailor.

[AnOhioan]

60. Saw this coming awhile back

The Dmocratic Party Leadership is lacking some serious backbone. All we can do is hope that appeasement turns out better this time than it did pre WW2.

[Le Taz Hot]

61. OK, so can we finally

admit that Nader (no, I'm not a fan) was correct? These MF's are beholden to the SAME corporate masters as the Republicans are. Honest to goddess, it's Revolution time. Throw them ALL out!

[geomon666]

62. That says it all.

[Bleacher Creature]

63. As the OP, I should probably point out one thing.

The story doesn't appear to have been confirmed, and it you look at some other blogs there is some evidence that this may be a trial balloon, i.e., we still have a chance to make sure this doesn't happen. Plus, the AP has pulled crap like this before and turned out to be wrong.

If this story is eventually confirmed, people (including me) are going to be royally pissed. In the meantime, let's be sure we start putting in our calls to our Democratic Members of Congress and make sure this doesn't happen.

[loyalkydem]

64. that is why

We need to elect more democrats. Especially in the senate and then elect a democratic president. I want to see the Republican party wiped out, bastards.

[LibertyorDeath]

65. There is no time line on control of Iraq's oil

There is no time line on control of Iraq's oil

for either party.

Bush's Corporate Clown suit could be tailored to most

politicians in power today on both sides of the isle

with a few exceptions.....

The Dem's did not cave they did exactly what corporate America wants them to do.

[nolabels]

69. The people of ME seem to have much more staying power

Much like the Southeast Asians during Nam, they seem to be waiting for the foreigners to finally leave. Even if there is some inked contract in the short term by some quack government, those people of that region will eventually make it null and void.

The history books are replete of how that eventually happens btw

[EClark5483]

68. You guys are terrible...

2008 needs to be taken with confidence in the progressive movement, from the people that vote. I've been a DU reader for a long long time and I have watched some of the topics become a "BLAME BUSH" ABSURD tangent. While I can't stand the guy, and consider myself a progressive thinker/Deist, my logic dictates whom I vote for.

What I am reading in this post, are people basically going "DOWN WITH THE DEMOCRATS"

I'm not gonna go back and quote posts, but it's pretty obvious.

My feelings on it, honestly, an IMPEACHMENT will not happen, will never happen, and shouldn't happen. Not that I wouldn't have liked to have seen it happen 5 years ago.. but that's the way it is.

The progressive movement needs 2/3rds. That isn't going to happen if those who have voted for these people lose faith in their idealism and government mumbo jumbo wheeling and dealings that are needed to bring troops home.

So WHY NOT get something out of it for America by throwing in a minimum raise package ? Everyone knows the damn Rep side wants nothing to do with a minimum wage.

If anything, it could be called a victory on the home front against terrorism. A step on curbing the economic crunch the un-rich are accustomed to and have been for 10 years.

If Bush and Co. have their way, the troops will be there a hell of allot longer then a Dem President with a Dem controlled congress would allow.

Trying to take an easy way out and convince the idiot in chief to sign a bill bringing troops home just isn't gonna work.

He will only gain momentum from the people who still sadly support him half ass, but are uncertain.

That isn't having confidence in the progressive movement, I believe this is why congress approval has sunk.

The fight to bring the troops home is not a short road, it is a long one, the best chance now is to build the road that brings them home, not take a right and head down the bumpy road.

Get your voters confidence in rebuilding a stronger America by increasing minimum wage for struggling war family's and single parent families while still sending money over to help the troops function sure sounds like a damn good progressive plan to me.

I say we have "REBUILT IRAQ" enough, it's time to "REBUILD AMERICA"

The troops will come home when that happens.
.
.

[BlueStater]

72. Our country is in big goddamn trouble

Fuck the Democrats. Fuck them. May they be flushed down the toilet of history with Bush.

[davhill]

75. Clinton had his Monica

Bush has his Nancy

[Theduckno2]

76. What if Bush, in refusing time-lines, didn't sign any funding bill?

What happens then?

What happens if a helicopter crashes and the right wing talking heads insinuate that it was due to the lack of maintenance funding?

What happens when the right-wing mother of the dead pilot camps out the door of Speaker Pelosi?

What happens when that grieving mother, with tears in her eyes, asks why, after her voting for George Bush to be our Commander in Chief, her child had to die, so Speaker Pelosi could try to decide military strategy.

I think Bush is reckless enough to allow it to go to that extreme.

We need to look at some of the positives here as well, a minimum wage increase is not small potatoes and I think that the Iraq War has become Bush's War in the eyes of the majority.

I am still holding out for the trial balloon theory though.

[Le Taz Hot]

78. Well, it's kind of hard to

look at the positives when 3400 + Americans and 600,000+ innocent Iraqi civilians are dead. But you go ahead and look at the positives. (I can't believe anyone said that!)

[info being]

79. As someone who just donated to DU....I say

Fucking Democrats!

[info being]

81. How can we send a unified message to the dems...

...that they have betrayed us and they can fuck off if they ever want our support? This is inexcusable. They already sent two perfectly acceptable bills. If Bush doesn't want them, he gets no funding. If he changes his mind, they can send them back.

[davhill]

82. Stop Contributing to the DNC

I returned my "membership renewal" with no check and "Not a cent until you do something to stop the War!" written accross it with a black laundry marker.

[Freddie Stubbs]

86. That'll fix Howard Dean!

:shrug:

[Gen. Jack D. Ripper]

83. It's a political move

When your approval rating is 29% (http://www.galluppoll.com/content/?ci=27589), it's very difficult to stand firm on a such a contested issue. Looks like Americans just hate everybody in Washington nearly equally. Frankly, I'm with 'em on that one, at times. Who is there left to support?

[jus_the_facts]

84. GOP says we'll FUCK YOU....DEMS say we'll kiss you THEN FUCK YOU!

...same shit different day. :nopity:

[sadiesworld]

87. What's truly sad is that the RW radio blowhards

are holding onto their increasingly frustrated base by saying that the dems will not pull out of Iraq either.