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BrokenBeyondRepair Donating Member (642 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 01:26 PM
Original message
Urban legend of "North American Union" feeds on fears
Source: Seattle Times

We're talking about the secret plan to build a superhighway, a giant 10- to 12-lane production, from the Yucatn to the Yukon. This "SuperCorridor" would allow the really big part of the plan to take place: the merging of the governments of Canada, the United States and Mexico. Say goodbye to the dollar, and maybe even the English language.

Read more: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/20037...
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bunkerbuster1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
1. Woo-hoo! Merged government!
About time we wuz civilized.
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Will we be known then as "Amergicans?"
"The United States of Amergica?"

"North Amergica?"
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High Plains Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
2. The original post is highly ironic.
The article takes a sober look at the hysteria around the supposed North American Union, calls it an "urban legend," and then the original poster buys in completely to that urban legend. Dude, did you read the article you posted?
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BrokenBeyondRepair Donating Member (642 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. how do you figure?
i posted w/o comment. what exactly am i buying into? ..dude

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Pab Sungenis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. You should have used the "excerpt" setting
It looked like your comments, not like an excerpt from the page

which looks like this.


Easy to see where the confusion lies.
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High Plains Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Dude, please accept my apologies.
Edited on Mon May-21-07 01:58 PM by High Plains
I mistakenly assumed the paragraph in the OP was your commentary on the article. I didn't realize it was actually the second paragraph in the article.

On edit: Oh, yeah, what pabsubgenus said, too.
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BrokenBeyondRepair Donating Member (642 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. no worries
:toast:
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The2ndWheel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
3. It's bound to happen eventually
As long as life is about the efficiency of production and consumption, it will happen. It's the same process that created America or any nation-state, or any corporation, etc.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-22-07 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #3
29. The current trend around the world is Balkinization.
As regional populations grow, those regions become less dependent upon a larger state. There are dozens of nations around the world that have smaller populations than many of our states. I think, in keeping with the trends, that it is liklier that that Canada, the US and Mexico will each subdivide. There's a strong French separatist movement in Canada, there is open rebellion in southern Mexico against the central government, and regions in the US are so culturally different there is little sense for them to be part of the same nation - there are huge differences between the deep south and the northeast and the northwest.

THAT, I think, is the inevitable. All we need is a series of really, really bad federal governments, such as Reagan, Bush 1, Bush 2, and Gingrich to break the bonds of nationhood.
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pampango Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-22-07 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. Both trends seem to be at work.
The Quebec separatist movement has been going on for a long time and may yet succeed. I had not heard that the rebellion in southern Mexico involved seeking independence from the rest of Mexico, just exasperation with the treatment with the region receives from the central government.

The European Union is the current example of the opposing trend of countries coming together despite their historical differences. The momentum there for political integration has its starts and stops, but is progressing if slowly. The Common Market that was enacted there after WWII to foster economic integration and trade was the precursor to the political integration that has occurred in recent years. At least they seem to be overcoming the historical national rivalries that have led to so many wars over the centuries.

I hadn't read too many predictions of the disintegration of the United States. There have been cultural differences between the regions since the country's inception. And once it did lead to a disintegration. Wonder if there will be another Lincoln, if it happens again or if the is too 19th century. Most of us, I think, can shake our heads at the "idiocy" (difference) of other regions of the country without feeling overly estranged from them. There are a lot of good people in every part of the country. "Vive la differance." (Not very good with my French.)
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The2ndWheel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-23-07 05:55 AM
Response to Reply #29
37. I'd say it depends on the energy
It's a constant back and forth. I'm not sure culture has as much power as it used to either. There might be different cultures within the same nation, but every city, more and more, looks the same. They all have Wal-Mart, McDonalds, etc.

It all comes down to the cheap energy though, I think. Whatever source of energy we have in the future, if it allows society to continue to expand, I just can't see something like the EU not happening all over the place over a fairly large amount of time(it certainly wouldn't happen overnight); Europe, North America, South America, Asia, Africa(the same way corporations merge and consolidate). On the other hand, if energy becomes expensive(other than the current cost to our habitat with today's relatively cheap energy), then we would see more Balkinization the world over.

It's just our relentless fight against entropy. As society grows and becomes more comple x(although in an odd way, less diversified on the whole), we need more and more energy just to stay at normal. That's why empires rise and fall.
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High Plains Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
8. It would be kinda nice to go from the Arctic Ocean to Panama
without having to deal with a goddamned border guard.

I look to the European Union as a model. That doesn't seem to have destroyed any of the European nations. They still speak French in France, German in Germany, etc.--except in Europe it seems like everybody speaks three or four languages. That is a good thing, I think.

Sacre bleu, estare bien, okay?
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. I have read it is for Trade route, and military controlled. Isn't DHS in
charge of this highway?
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
10. Oh yes there is a plan for this highway!!
There have been numerous articles and editorials about it in our paper here in KC, since we will have one of the regional ports here. I think they are calling them "smart ports"? The highway will roughly follow the path of I-35, which goes from the Mexican border to Duluth, MN.

There have also been articles in Texas newspapers as I have read those articles as well.

This is a very irresponsible piece.
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wakeme2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Well if it is in "Texas newspapers" it GOTTA BE true
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

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BushOut06 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. I have relatives in Texas, they've been talking about it for years
I was over there a few years ago, and they were talking about the plans to build a superhighway from Mexico to Canada. They were acting as if it would be a good thing, because the proposed highway would come near their town, hopefully creating more business there.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. It is going through my area
We have known about it for several years now. Yes, this is really happening. No, it is not a conspiracy theory.

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:6vAydo_KWSsJ:www.s...

http://www.keeptexasmoving.com /

http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives
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wakeme2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-22-07 04:07 AM
Response to Reply #17
23. Please JUST do the MATH
How much would a "a giant 10- to 12-lane production," toll road COST and what would the TOLLS have to be to pay for it.
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kimmerspixelated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-22-07 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #12
33. ENUF TEXAS JOKES!
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
11. And this just in...
And this just in...

Mexican nationalists to attempt subversive takeover of Texas and the greater southwest. All these stories fits in nicely of course with the plans of the new owners of the Soviet Weather Machines!!!

Should I put a sarcasm tag here, or is it just too frikkin' obvious...?
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silverojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-22-07 04:11 AM
Response to Reply #11
24. No sarcasm tag needed, because it's the truth
Or haven't you Googled words like "Aztlan", "reconquista", or "MeCHa" lately?
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-22-07 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. It was sarcasm.
It was sarcasm. Those who hold that Aztlan as an agenda or even a remote possibility are thrown (by me) into the same group who think that the south will secede again or that North Carolina will be it's own Christian nation one day soon.

I s'pose every nationality has it's "out-there weirdo's", but implying that it's anything other than a fringe idea held by the extreme is laughable at best.



Sheesh. I'm beginning to think DU really does need the "whatever" smiley...
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-22-07 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #26
30. North Carolina would never seceed to be its own christian nation.
That's the loonies in South Carolina, thank you.
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-22-07 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Oops...
Oops... so sorry.

I've got a FReeper relative or two who live in NC, so I get the two confused at times.

I would NEVER cast asparagus on NC... :)
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seasat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
13. It's part of the Repug's 2008 wedge issue push, IMHO.
The chatter about this kind of stuff has increased. The immigration reform measure is getting the usual xenophobic talking heads going about Mexicans taking over. It's even getting some play among Democrats. It's the fear tactic that the Repugs are going to play out for 2008. Just listen to their candidates.

However, IMHO, an European Union style model for North America would be great. We could aid Mexico and build up it's economy like the European Union has helped build up some of the former Soviet sattelite states. It would reduce illegal immigration in the US. It would reduce crime in both Mexico and the US border states. It would also reduce some of the horrible poverty in Mexico. If done right it could push the US towards more liberal policies like universal health care. It'd help to better coordinate environmental and labor standards between the countries. Finally, it would help us in international competition against the EU, the ASEAN countries, China, and India. The real catch is to make it like the EU and not some sort of corporate driven plan that lets them escape laws in other countries. I certainly wouldn't want Shrub Inc putting something like that together but it could be a good thing under a Democratic president.
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damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
15. No plans? Texans know better.
Texans have been trying to keep Gov. Perry from despoiling the state to build his supermonster "transportation corridor" to parallel the I-35 corridor.
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dave_p Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
18. Say No to New Road!
The people of Royston Vasey have shown the way.

"You see, Road Men, this is a Local shop: the Strangers you would bring would not understand us our customs, our local ways..."
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Oh, you beauty!
There is a place called Swansea! :rofl:
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
19. For An Urban Legend, It's Got a Nifty Website
Edited on Mon May-21-07 05:56 PM by Crisco
http://www.nascocorridor.com /

The general idea is for China to ship its goods to North America through South America.

The Longshoremen are LOVING it!

Not.



PS - If you right-click and view the image solo, take note of the file name.

And it's all just an urban legend, of course.
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BrokenBeyondRepair Donating Member (642 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. an urban legend w/ congressional funding
http://www.nascocorridor.com/pages/about/about.htm

NASCO has received $2.25 million in Congressional funding to be administered by the United States Department of Transportation (USDOT) for the development of a technology integration and tracking project. The project will have a team approach, using members of NASCO as the primary participants in the project, to the extent possible. NASCO believes the deployment of a modern information system will reduce the cost, improve the efficiency, reduce trade-related congestion, and enhance security of cross-border and corridor information, trade and traffic.
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diamidue Donating Member (606 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-22-07 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #21
34. Yep... And some Congressmen have spoken out against it.
In the House of Representatives, On Sept. 28, 2006, three Congressmen (Ron Paul, Tancredo and Jones) submitted a resolution to the Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure & the Committee on International Relations:

"expressing the sense of Congress that the United States should not engage in the construction of a North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) Superhighway System or enter into a North American Union with Mexico and Canada."

http://www.thomas.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:H.CON.RES.48...
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
22. There's a great deal of opposition to it in Texas
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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-22-07 08:22 AM
Response to Original message
25. I just received a mailing from the "American Policy Center" about this.
Big lettering on the outside that says "Stop The Invasion"!!

These people are Global Warming deniers and general wingnuts. I have no idea how I got on their mailing list.
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Robson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-22-07 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #25
35. What if you aren't a wing nut or global warming denier but still believe there is a conspiracy
Edited on Tue May-22-07 06:28 PM by Robson
I'm neither a wing nut nor a global warming denier nor a member of the "American Policy Center" but I do feel.....1/ there is an emerging plan to allow the free trade of goods and labor in North America to the benefit of big business and the NAU is the ultimate outcome. Politically to get to that end they must tip toe through the tulips with baby steps 2/ we are being invaded to the benefit of other countries, and the corporatist elites are loving every minute of it.

If you are not a member of the corporate elistist sub group, and expecting and needing social security you should be very concerned.
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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-23-07 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #35
36. I'll read more about it.
But, I won't be getting my facts from the "North American Union Fact Sheet" that was mailed to me.

It asserts that those working for a NA Union are seeking the end of sovereignty and junking the dollar in favor of an "Amero".

It also says, "This report was produced by the American Policy Center.
-snip-
Much of the information for this report was contained in materials produced by investigative journalist Jerome Corsi. His reports may be found on World Net Daily.
-snip-
Information was also obtained by Phyllis Schlafly."

If you don't recognize the name Jerome Corsi, he wrote the Swifboat Veteran's hit piece "Unfit for Command" about John Kerry.

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Robson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-23-07 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #36
38. Fortunately people can still be right even if they were wrong
Edited on Wed May-23-07 08:13 AM by Robson
Our beliefs and philosophies do change based upon circumstances at the moment, and even if they are wrong once can change and be right later. Hillary can attest to that with her Iraq vote. I don't know much about Corsi but I do believe without any ambiguousness that there is a movement a foot to continue the 20 year trend of advancing corporate interests in North America at the expense of most working Americans.

The beneficiaries of such an expansion are the deal makers on Wall St, the CEOs, and to a lesser extent the investors as it pushes down our standard of living to be in equilibrium with our neighbors.
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pampango Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-23-07 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #38
39. Could you make a comparison between any future merger of
Mexico and the US with mergers of suburban and inner city school districts?

There are those progressives who believe that equal public educational opportunity cannot be proved if you keep inner city minorities in one school district and suburban white kids in school districts, residential segregation being what it is. The disparity in wealth is just too much great.

You can make the case that the white suburban kids will be negatively affected by such a merger, but does that make it wrong, if there is a greater goal of equal educational opportunity for everyone. I sometimes feel that those opposed to immigration here are like suburbanites, who have it better than their neighbors (even though their schools may still have some problems) and have not intention of sharing opportunities with them.
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Robson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-23-07 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #39
40. Somewhat off topic but here's my belief
This is somewhat off topic as I don't compare equalizing school districts with equalizing the USA with Mexico. Our USA leaders must be committed to advancing the interests of our citizens otherwise they are Benedict Arnold's.

My belief in school districts is that it is more important to give all children of all ethnicities with ability and the desire to learn the the maximum opportunity to do so. I believe it a terrible injustice to our country if we bring down the academics of those kids that want more, by lowering the instruction level to those who have little or no interest in learning. A major problem in this country is the need to change the culture of some so that they feel, are given, and accept more peer pressure to succeed academically, instead of having peer pressure to fail. It has to come from parents, from within the community and from those figures who are looked up to. Too bad that rap stars don't preach learning instead of no snitch. Nigerian immigrants in Philadelphia schools were ridiculed and bullied by young black American kids who criticized their ambition and desire to learn. Changing schools will change little until these attitudes change.

Thirdly we already waste far too much energy, children's' time and give them exposure to road accidents with extended busing. We don't need to make more bus companies rich.
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TrogL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-22-07 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
27. I still like this concept
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CGowen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-22-07 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. hmm.
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