EU looks at potential war crimes by Somalia, Ethiopia

[maddezmom]

Source: Reuters

EU looks at potential war crimes by Somalia, Ethiopia

NAIROBI, April 6 (Reuters) - A European Union security expert has warned that Ethiopian and Somali troops may have committed war crimes during a four-day battle in Mogadishu, adding to growing criticism of rights violations in Somalia.

The warning in a letter to the EU ambassador for Somalia and Kenya, dated April 2, came just a day after the end of a four-day offensive by joint Somali-Ethiopian forces to eliminate insurgents in the Somalian capital.

At least 400 people were killed and nearly 1,000 wounded as Ethiopian and government troops flattened pro-insurgent neighbourhoods with tanks, helicopters and artillery, in the heaviest fighting in 15 years in a city notorious for bloodshed.

"There are strong grounds to believe that the Ethiopian government and the transitional federal government of Somalia and the African Union force commander ... have through commission or omission violated the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court," said a copy of the letter seen by Reuters.

Read more: http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L06542374.htm

---

sounds like Iraq

[mod mom]

1. What exactly constitutes a war crime?

[BayCityProgressive]

2. What about Britian?

[Demeter]

3. What About US? That Dynamic Duo: Bush and Cheney?

And the Puppetmaster Karl Rove?

[melody]

4. EU trying to best the US at global pontification

That's what this has all been about ... the boys puffing up and blowing hot air.

The EU, like the US, ought to get their own yards in order. No one is really going to help Somalia or
Ethiopia. They'll just talk.

[kryckis]

5. Yeah

Lets just ignore the misery going on in the world. The US ain't involved so it doesn't matter, or what?

Something has to be done about Somalia. If talking is all they can/will do right now, better that than ignoring it completely. Iraq isn't the only worthy topic when it comes to human suffering.

[melody]

6. The EU and the US are equally responsible for ignoring this

Words won't help -- action will. This is just the EU trying to best the US ... nothing more ...
but if you have to believe in heroes ...

But hey, go right ahead and interpret my words according to your stereotype of Americans. ;)

[kryckis]

11. Okay

So what do you propose should be done? There has to be a middle ground between dropping bombs and turning our backs, right? (I'm not being snarky, it's an honest inquiry). I find the situation in Somalia incredibly distressing, and something needs to be done - even if I agree with you that it's not likely.

Unfortunately it's not hard to fall into 'American stereotypes' here since every other topic dealing with shit that goes on in the world is promptly dismissed with "what about the US?" or "Iraq is worse" or something similar. I have to react.

[melody]

12. What needs to be done is to be aware talk = nothing

Which is my point. We need to be skeptical of government bullshit of *every* variety. These globalists in Europe point at us and go "bad dog" and the US points at EU and says "bad dog"
and meanwhile they both go on running the kennel. lol

I see far more "it's all the fault of the US, the EU is innocent" posts than the reverse, I fear. We
all entertain biases -- we just have to see around them.

[kryckis]

13. I don't get what the US has to do with this

The EU isn't pointing at the US is it? I didn't get that from the article.

"it's all the fault of the US" is exactly what I mean by "what about the US?". It's the kind of self-absorbed bullshit that makes it almost impossible to address problems without it coming down to how much you suck in relation to everything else and thus all else pale in comparison to your awfulness. I don't believe it's true, and I think it's an annoying feature here on DU, but I guess it's something I have to learn to deal with.

[melody]

14. Everything comes down to a referent to the other power points

My field is anthropology. The world of government is all about Alpha primate interaction.

Your own immediate association and negativity toward the US underscores the accuracy of the association. And it's what's going to lead to a war between the EU and US if we all don't
become more aware.

Now, we should set aside ego problems about cultures and deal with the lives at stake in
Ethiopia and Somalia. That's what's important. Nothing else.

[kryckis]

20. Are we talking around each other?

I'm saying this is about Somalia and what should be done, you are arguing that the EU and the US should look in their own yard first. Now you're saying they should set that aside to do something about Ethiopia and Somalia. I don't understand where your position is.

My initial disagreement with you was your comment about essentially ignoring what's going on because it's just a power struggle of some sort. As far as I'm concerned the EU is right to bring this up, whatever the US thinks about it.

And what is this about war between the EU and US? Where did that come from?

I absolutely agree with your last point. This is not about what a terrible country the US is or what's been done to Iraq. It's about the people in Ethiopia and Somalia.

[melody]

22. Oi

No, you're completely missing the points I'm making, chiefly because I'm thinking you've
no background in the intermingling of chicanery between the EU and US when it comes to
Ethiopia and Somalia and how it causes the problem (and how the public diatribe feeds it).
It is very much "on topic". It's not my job to advise you on those matters. I'm sorry
if you've a bias against American people as this seems to be what is feeding your reactions
to my comments, but I shan't hold that against you. lol

Let's just agree to disagree -- you're missing my points because you don't have sufficient
knowledge of the topic and because you don't like Yanks. I AM talking about matters that will
come to play in this situation. You're coming into the middle of the conversation and attacking
me because you don't speak the language.

Regardless, this is a thoroughly silly discussion at this point and an appalling waste of time.

[Eugene]

8. The U.S. is an active player in this.

Ethiopia is propping up the Somali government and chasing the supposed al-Qaeda-
linked Islamists not only with U.S. urging, but also with some U.S. military support
in the air and on the ground. Bush has made Africa, Somalia in particular, a third
front in the "War on Terror." Europe is right to be concerned because this conflict
threatens to destabilize the whole region.

As for the alleged war crime, Somali and Ethiopian forces indiscriminately bombarded
parts of Mogadishu in their latest offensive against the Islamists. America helped
to make it happen.

[melody]

9. These people have aided and abetted each other for decades

Europe has conspired with us when it suits them, just as we've conspired with them. You cannot
distinguish one political body's actions from another in any serious way, going back many years.

In point of fact, there are a number of theorists who make a good case for the Bush regime
(going back to the JFK assassination) being nothing more than a royalist attempt to destroy
the US. When you consider all the extreme measures taken by the CIA under the Bush regime
(in all its forms), it does make one wonder. Particularly while the UK is bursting forth with
liberal ideals while the right-wing is pushing a backward, knuckle-walking agenda in the US,
and when you see Bush's deep connections to the Queen's Bank, to say nothing of the US far
right.

None of us really have any idea to what degree these people have assisted each other. To idealize
the EU as "good" and the US as "bad" (which is essentially what this perspective does) is, imho,
childlike or disingenuous.

Frankly, I think the US ought to be finding our own way toward a government which would guard
against both the old US mindset AND the EU. I think they're both ultimately a threat to the
well-being of the new world.

[laylah]

7. And they will

start looking into war crimes by *dumbass and Cheney WHEN?

Jenn

[melody]

10. Never ... because they're their war crimes, too n/t

[Heidi]

15. Kick.

:kick:

[Joanne98]

16. EU E-Mail Warns of Somali War Crimes

Source: AP

NAIROBI, Kenya -- Ethiopian and Somali forces may have committed war crimes during four days of heavy artillery shelling against an Islamic insurgency in the Somali capital and foreign donors could be complicit, a European Union conflict expert said in an e-mail obtained by The Associated Press.

The United States, United Nations and the European Union have provided millions of dollars to support Somalia's fragile interim government. Ethiopian troops intervened in December to protect the government and defeat their militant Islamic rivals.

But Islamic insurgents and clan militiamen have attacked government and Ethiopian troops in recent weeks. An operation by Ethiopian-backed government forces last week sparked the heaviest fighting in 15 years, leaving hundreds of civilians dead, and the tactics they used raised concerns among EU experts.

The warning was made in an urgent e-mail to Eric van der Linden, the chief EU official for Kenya and Somalia. Van der Linden confirmed the e-mail's authenticity to the AP.



Read more: http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-somalia-war-crimes,0,560429.story?coll=sns-ap-nationworld-headlines

[madeline_con]

17. "... shelling against an Islamic insurgency ..."

"The United States, United Nations and the European Union have provided millions of dollars to support Somalia's fragile interim government."

The Empire strikes back! :spank:

[Kagemusha]

18. If no one got held accountable for Rwanda, how could anyone be here?

I wish the EU would do more too but, I don't think legal liability is its problem here.

[Joanne98]

19. attacking civilians...

The e-mail's author, whose name was blanked out on the copy obtained by the AP but whose senior position was apparent from the text, went on to detail the exact statutes that may have been violated. They included intentionally directing attacks against civilians and ordering the displacement of civilians for reasons related to the conflict.

[Igel]

23. It's possible that the Somali government has committed

war crimes. If so, it's a problem. Perhaps not intentional, perhaps culturally acceptable, but who said international law cared about intent or was culturally sensitive (at least when the culture isn't powerful enough to dictate terms)?

On the other hand, it's possible they were fighting against folks fighting against them; then the EU--one of the de jure government's supporters--will have a messy, if not impossible, investigation. For two reasons. The first is that the issue is usually one of proportionality and whether the civilian casualties are merited. The second is that getting accurate information in a situation in which there are clans and parties greatly at odds with each other, and in which lying might be a positive virtue, is a bear. If the EU can't investigate, what's it to do? Bow to public outrage and cut support for the Somali government, and pressure Ethopia to back off? Hmmmm....

Sometimes it looks like politics is just a continuation of war by other means.

[razzleberry]

21. Congress says what?, in this matter n/t