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rooboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-03 03:05 AM
Original message
Libya move puts pressure on Israel
Libya is preparing to open up its military installations to inspection by the outside world, as the Arab League says Israel should be next to give up its nuclear weapons.

A Libyan delegation has already met the head of the United Nations nuclear watchdog Dr Mohamed El Baradei in Vienna.

The talks with the International Atomic Energy Agency took place within 24 hours of Libya's announcement that it is abandoning all weapons of mass destruction.

British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw says the advanced state of Libya's nuclear weapons program emerged during nine months of secret negotiations.

"They acknowledged to us that Libya's developing a nuclear fuel cycle intended to support nuclear weapons developments and our team was given access to projects underway at more than 10 sites, including uranium enrichment," he said.

"Libya had not acquired a nuclear weapons capability but it was close to developing one."

The Arab League's Secretary General, Amr Moussa, says Libya's decision puts pressure on Israel to make similar moves.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s1014346.htm
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bushedout Donating Member (101 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-03 03:07 AM
Response to Original message
1. I disagree. No one has tried to make Libya cease to exist
Israel has every right to maintain WMDs and has shown itself to be trustworthy in their use.
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OrAnarch Donating Member (433 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-03 03:11 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. huh?
Edited on Sun Dec-21-03 03:15 AM by OrAnarch
Correct me if I am wrong, but haven't they violated more than 50 UN resolutions? Doesn't this show no respect for a multinational world body?


Why should anyone have the "right" to maintain WMDs?
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bushedout Donating Member (101 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-03 03:17 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Becasue they act right?
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OrAnarch Donating Member (433 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-03 03:22 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. They do?
Edited on Sun Dec-21-03 03:23 AM by OrAnarch
Do you agree with their treatment of the Palestinians and disregard for the UN?


I act right most often than not....where can I get my nuke? I wasn't aware that nonproliferation of nuclear weapons only applied to countries that do not act right according to our standards and policies. Must be nice to always roll With God on Our Side.


I guess Im from a rare school of thought to assume that no one needs, earns, or deserves to keep WMDs, and surely not if such possession should be based upon a country's bloody history. Im also from a school of thought that assumes that one country with em telling another country to get rid of them is one huge example of hypocrisy. :)
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bushedout Donating Member (101 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-03 03:29 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Where have they disregared the UN?
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wuushew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-03 03:45 AM
Response to Reply #5
13. numerous examples
Edited on Sun Dec-21-03 03:52 AM by wuushew
http://www.jerusalemites.org/facts_documents/un/22.htm

UN Resolutions Against Israel, 1955-1992


1. Resolution 106: "... 'condemns' Israel for Gaza raid"


2. Resolution 111: "...'condemns' Israel for raid on Syria that killed fifty-six people"


3. Resolution 127: "...'recommends' Israel suspend its 'no-man's zone' in Jerusalem"


4. Resolution 162: "...'urges' Israel to comply with UN decisions"


5. Resolution 171: "...determines flagrant violations' by Israel in its attack on Syria"


6. Resolution 228: "...'censures' Israel for its attack on Samu in the West Bank, then under Jordanian control"


7. Resolution 237: "...'urges' Israel to allow return of new 1967 Palestinian refugees"


8. Resolution 248: "...'condemns' Israel for its massive attack on Karameh in Jordan"


9. Resolution 250: "... 'calls' on Israel to refrain from holding military parade in

Jerusalem"


10. Resolution 251: "... 'deeply deplores' Israeli military parade in Jerusalem in defiance of Resolution 250"


11. Resolution 252: "...'declares invalid' Israel's acts to unify Jerusalem as Jewish capital"


12. Resolution 256: "... 'condemns' Israeli raids on Jordan as 'flagrant violation"


13. Resolution 259: "...'deplores' Israel's refusal to accept UN mission to probe occupation"


14. Resolution 262: "...'condemns' Israel for attack on Beirut airport"


15. Resolution 265: "... 'condemns' Israel for air attacks for Salt in Jordan"


16. Resolution 267: "...'censures' Israel for administrative acts to change the status of Jerusalem"


17. Resolution 270: "...'condemns' Israel for air attacks on villages in southern

Lebanon"


18. Resolution 271: "...'condemns' Israel's failure to obey UN resolutions on

Jerusalem"


19. Resolution 279: "...'demands' withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanon"


20. Resolution 280: "....'condemns' Israeli's attacks against Lebanon"


21. Resolution 285: "...'demands' immediate Israeli withdrawal form Lebanon"


22. Resolution 298: "...'deplores' Israel's changing of the status of Jerusalem"


23. Resolution 313: "...'demands' that Israel stop attacks against Lebanon"


24. Resolution 316: "...'condemns' Israel for repeated attacks on Lebanon"


25. Resolution 317: "...'deplores' Israel's refusal to release Arabs abducted in

Lebanon"


26. Resolution 332: "...'condemns' Israel's repeated attacks against Lebanon"


27. Resolution 337: "...'condemns' Israel for violating Lebanon's sovereignty"


28. Resolution 347: "...'condemns' Israeli attacks on Lebanon"


29. Resolution 425: "...'calls' on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon"


30. Resolution 427: "...'calls' on Israel to complete its withdrawal from Lebanon'


31. Resolution 444: "...'deplores' Israel's lack of cooperation with UN peacekeeping forces"


32. Resolution 446: "...'determines' that Israeli settlements are a 'serious obstruction' to peace and calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention"


33. Resolution 450: "...'calls' on Israel to stop attacking Lebanon"


34. Resolution 452: "...'calls' on Israel to cease building settlements in occupied territories"


35. Resolution 465: "...'deplores' Israel's settlements and asks all member states not to assist Israel's settlements program"


36. Resolution 467: "...'strongly deplores' Israel's military intervention in Lebanon"


37. Resolution 468: "...'calls' on Israel to rescind illegal expulsions of two Palestinian mayors and a judge and to facilitate their return"


38. Resolution 469: "...'strongly deplores' Israel's failure to observe the council's order not to deport Palestinians" 39. Resolution 471: "... 'expresses deep concern' at Israel's failure to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention"


40. Resolution 476: "... 'reiterates' that Israel's claims to Jerusalem are 'null and void'


41. Resolution 478: "...'censures (Israel) in the strongest terms' for its claim to Jerusalem in its 'Basic Law'


42. Resolution 484: "...'declares it imperative' that Israel re-admit two deported Palestinian mayors"


43. Resolution 487: "...'strongly condemns' Israel for its attack on Iraq's nuclear facility"


44. Resolution 497: "...'decides' that Israel's annexation of Syria's Golan Heights is 'null and void' and demands that Israel rescind its decision forthwith"


45. Resolution 498: "...'calls' on Israel to withdraw from Lebanon"


46. Resolution 501: "...'calls' on Israel to stop attacks against Lebanon and withdraw its troops"


47. Resolution 509: "...'demands' that Israel withdraw its forces forthwith and

unconditionally from Lebanon"


48. Resolution 515: "...'demands' that Israel lift its siege of Beirut and allow food supplies to be brought in"


49. Resolution 517: "...'censures' Israel for failing to obey UN resolutions and

demands that Israel withdraw its forces from Lebanon"


50. Resolution 518: "...'demands' that Israel cooperate fully with UN forces in

Lebanon"


51. Resolution 520: "...'condemns' Israel's attack into West Beirut"


52. Resolution 573: "...'condemns' Israel 'vigorously' for bombing Tunisia in attack on PLO headquarters


53. Resolution 587: "...'takes note' of previous calls on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon and urges all parties to withdraw"


54. Resolution 592: "...'strongly deplores' the killing of Palestinian students at Bir Zeit University by Israeli troops" 55. Resolution 605: "...'strongly deplores' Israel's policies and practices denying the human rights of Palestinians


56. Resolution 607: "...'calls' on Israel not to deport Palestinians and strongly

requests it to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention


57. Resolution 608: "...'deeply regrets' that Israel has defied the United Nations and deported Palestinian civilians"


58. Resolution 636: "...'deeply regrets' Israeli deportation of Palestinian civilians


59. Resolution 641: "...'deplores' Israel's continuing deportation of Palestinians


60. Resolution 672: "...'condemns' Israel for violence against Palestinians at the Haram al-Sharif/Temple Mount


61. Resolution 673: "...'deplores' Israel's refusal to cooperate with the United

Nations


62. Resolution 681: "...'deplores' Israel's resumption of the deportation of

Palestinians


63. Resolution 694: "...'deplores' Israel's deportation of Palestinians and calls on it to ensure their safe and immediate return


64. Resolution 726: "...'strongly condemns' Israel's deportation of Palestinians


65. Resolution 799: "...'strongly condemns' Israel's deportation of 413 Palestinians and calls for their immediate return.
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anakie Donating Member (935 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-03 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #13
35. and each one vetoed by the US
so arguably there really are not any resolutions against Israel
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Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-03 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #5
23. You better do some research before you ask such a question
you appear to be a bit uninformed.
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thissideup Donating Member (50 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-03 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #23
34. Where did Israel violate UN resolutions
I am very well informed by the way. You cannot show me an instance where Israel has. ALL the resolutions are contingent upon BOTH sides in the Mid East conflict changing behavior.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-03 03:34 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. ANYONE? Or just the uppity Jews?
Anyone asking Europe to disarm? The United States?

Be careful with your "anyone."
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-03 03:38 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. I would like to see us all disarm
Edited on Sun Dec-21-03 03:39 AM by Tinoire
Of course... we all know that no one is going to really disarm willingly. We've gone too far- past the point of no return knowing human nature.

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OrAnarch Donating Member (433 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-03 03:41 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. anyone means anyone. :)
My Jewish brothers included.
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-03 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #11
21. You first. End of story.
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brainshrub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-03 07:39 AM
Response to Reply #8
20. I am. (nt)
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Muddleoftheroad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-03 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #2
22. Survival comes to mind
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loudnclear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-03 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #1
25. I think the US attacked and bombed Libya under Reagan and have
been making threats for years. I would say all the Arab nations had a right to WMDs to protect themselves from Israel and the US. Remember, Israel attacked Iraq in the 80's. But of course, anything that Israel does is right and just.
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Muddleoftheroad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-03 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. Libya has actually ADMITTED to terrorism
Yes, Raygun attacked Libya and was right to do so. He had a bigger case than we had against Iraq.
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newyorican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-03 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. Unlike other countries...
in the ME.
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sistersofmercy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-03 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #26
30. No they haven't
They accepted a level of responsibility in order to get UN sanctions lifted, big difference.
FYI the families of the people who were blasted to bits in 73 by the Israeli army bloeing up a Libyan commercial airliner are currently suing the Israeli government. The airliner had to go off course because of bad weather and radioed ahead well in advance.
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Muddleoftheroad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-03 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #30
32. Parsing
You are parsing statements only. That's for lawyers, not real folks. Libya is accepting their responsibility for their actions.
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sistersofmercy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-03 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. Label it as you wish but they have NOT ADMITTED to complicity
I find it interesting that all of this in light of American oil companies lobbying to have US sanctions lifted because the development of potential oil drilling site contracts have never been reassigned since the sanctions were put in place.
So what do you have to say about the Libyan airliner? Notice you were unusaully quiet about that one.
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GermanDJ Donating Member (140 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-03 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #26
36. There were a lot of false accusations

I don't know if the Libyan secret service was involved in terrorist acts. Maybe they were, but certainly to a lesser degree than most Western European nations, including the US.
Personally I don't believe that they were responsible for the Lockerbie bombing. It's also interesting that it was the Libyan police, *not* the FBI or CIA that first issued a warrant for Bin Laden and his terror organization.

I already posted the following links in another thread (I am personally interested in this case because I remember vividly the reporting here when the Berlin discotheque "LaBelle" was bombed). To me these articles and comments show rather coherently that a lot of the accusations against Libya were not so much based on facts but on political games when they were dispersed for the first time:

http://www.countercurrents.org/chomsky3.htm

http://www.globalissues.org/Geopolitics/MiddleEast/Terr...
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-03 03:32 AM
Response to Original message
6. This is a truly impressive ploy. Practically chess.
While this may be the one thing on the planet on which I agree with BushedOut, since I don't take the "liberal" position of blaming Palestinian problems on the Israelis, I do think this is a fascinating and brilliant approach to a real thorn in arab sides.

Kudos to Khaddafy.

Israel? Your move.
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bushedout Donating Member (101 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-03 03:34 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Why should Israel do anything
They aren't coveting anyone's territory like the arabs are.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-03 03:42 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. Not strictly true.
They have gone beyond their original indefensible borders. They also have groups within Israel who would like to see David's kingdom restored.

Every nation has its crazies. And sometimes, like now in the US, the crazies are in charge.

Now, however, Israelis and Palestinians find themselves sitting on a huge resource discovery (I think natural gas but could be wrong) which cannot be developed without peace. I would be violently opposed to any attempt to cheat either side of a share of this resource.

Now would be a very nice time to negotiate a settlement and both sides work to get very rich indeed. (Don't let Arafat manage this money. He has a habit of taking it home.)

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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-03 05:20 AM
Response to Reply #7
17. Awwww


And to think it got all the way to 101 before Cruella DeVille put it out of its misery!
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La_Serpiente Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-03 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. lol
the a-hole needed to go.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-03 03:34 AM
Response to Original message
9. Now if only the UN and US would pressure Israel / Mordechai Vanunu
Edited on Sun Dec-21-03 03:35 AM by Tinoire
April 22, 2004.
If you can believe the word of the state of Israel, that is the day that Mordechai Vanunu will be released from prison for the crime of telling the world the truth about his government's secret nuclear weapons program.
===

The Vanunu Story
Mordechai Vanunu, a former Israeli nuclear technician, is now serving the last year of an 18-year sentence in an Israeli prison for blowing the whistle on his government's secret nuclear weapons program. Captured by Israeli agents on September 30, 1986, he spent more than 11 1/2 years in solitary confinement.

One of 11 children of Moroccan Jewish parents who emigrated to Israel in 1963, when he was 9 years old, Vanunu served in the Israeli army and then went to work as a young man in the Dimona nuclear "research center" in the Negev Desert near his home at Beersheba. The facility harbored an underground plutonium separation plant operated in strictest secrecy. As the years went by he grew increasingly troubled as he realized his work was part of Israel's nuclear bomb program. In 1985, before leaving Dimona, he took extensive photographs inside the factory in order to document the truth for his fellow citizens and the entire world.

Traveling through Asia with the film in his backpack, Vanunu made his way to Sydney, Australia, where he found companionship in an Anglican church social justice community with whom he shared the story of his nuclear background. In Sydney he also converted to Christianity and was baptized in July, 1986. A British newspaper, the London Sunday Times, learned of his story and sent a reporter to Sydney to check it out. The newspaper then flew Vanunu to England, where his photos and facts were further checked by British scientists familiar with nuclear weapons. Vanunu's story, published October 5, 1986, gave the world its first authoritative confirmation that tiny Israel had become a major nuclear weapons power, with material for as many as 200 nuclear warheads of advanced design.

Israeli agents got early wind of Vanunu's intentions. Even before publication of the story they had lured him from Britain, abducted him in Italy, and dumped his drugged body onto an Israeli cargo vessel bound for Israel. In the following months he was charged with espionage and treason and convicted at a closed-door trial. All legal appeals have since been exhausted, and he has been denied parole or probation.

<snip>
http://www.serve.com/vanunu/morestory.html

VANUNU'S PHOTOS OF DIMONA - 1986
Mordechai Vanunu brought his camera to work in late 1985, shortly before leaving his eight-year stint as a technician at Israel's nuclear weapons factory at Dimona.

Acting on his conscience, he carefully took about 60 photos of the top-secret labs and unique production processes involved. When some of these photos were originally published in the London Sunday Times' expos, they confirmed his eyewitness testimony about the extent of Israel's nuclear weapons program and revealed Israel to be one of the world's top nuclear powers. To this day, the Israeli government refuses international inspection of Dimona and continues to deny the existence of its nuclear arsenal. Click here for more of Vanunu's story

While their publication resulted in Vanunu being locked away for an 18-year prison sentence, his photographs of Israel's nuclear weapons factory - a bold statement against nuclear secrecy and for the abolition of nuclear weapons - are here for all to see.


Plutonium separation plant control room - 1986

http://www.serve.com/vanunu/photos.html

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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-03 03:46 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. We executed the Rosenbergs.
Israel is letting him breathe. Kind of generous for what was, really, treason.

I hope Christ is a comfort to him.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-03 05:15 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. I don't believe in the death penalty
Edited on Sun Dec-21-03 05:41 AM by Tinoire
And you'll never catch me saying Israel is more barbaric than the US. In many aspects I believe the reverse is true but this is neither the time nor place.

In this particular case though, I think Israel would very well have killed Vanunu had he not outsmarted his guardian escort by writing that message on his hand, pressing it against the car's window and alerting the world that he had been kidnapped by the Mossad and on which flight they smuggled him out of Italy



<snip>
{p. 203} Vanunu met "Cindy Hanin Bentov" one evening while walking through Leicester Square. They started chatting, and she suggested they go to a pub for a drink. She met him two or three times in between the interviews he was giving to the Sunday Times, and during one of their dates she told him about an apartment she had in Rome. She invited him to come with her for a visit. The offer was too tempting to refuse.

Vanunu told the Sunday Times he was going away for a long weekend. When he arrived at the Rome apartment, three Mossad agents were waiting. He was grabbed, given a knockout injection and pushed into a large crate. Then the crate was taken to an Israeli ship and loaded on as diplomatic cargo, which meant the authorities could not inspect the container.



Once the ship was on its way, he was brought out of the crate, handcuffed, and taken to a guarded cabin. As soon as the vessel arrived in Ashdod in Israel, a colonel in the police presented him with a formal arrest warrant on security grounds. Even though an Israeli Air Force 707 could have flown Vanunu from Britain's Stansted Airport to Tel Aviv, Mossad had been asked by MI-5 not to kidnap him on British soil because this would have embarrassed Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher. When Vanunu did not show up in London after his weekend away with Cindy, the Sunday Times decided to run with what it had, along with the photos, on October 5, 1986. The Sunday Mirror already had run its disinformation piece, but it did not have much effect.

The Vanunu revelations in the Sunday Times caused a world outcry - and there was more to follow when he was brought to court and everyone asked how he had been taken back to Israel. He was able to give the world a clue, even though he had been held in solitary confinement. On one of his trips to court in a police van, he pressed the palm of his hand against the van's window On it, he had written the number of the flight on which he had flown to Rome.

Certain members of the intelligence community approached

{p. 204} Deputy Prime Minister Shamir, concerned that Peres might be using the Vanunu affair to blow open the Iran-Israel-Maxwell operations. Shamir wanted Vanunu killed, but it was too late. Vanunu was sentenced behind closed doors to 18 years in jail for espionage and treason.

<snip>

http://users.cyberone.com.au/myers/vanunu.html
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WilliamPierce Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-03 05:16 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. By Way Of Deception Thou Shalt Do War
Even better i suggest DU members read Victor Ostrovsky(ex-mossad officer) and Benjamin Freedman(former congressman) to orientate with spining matters that have engulf our planet.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-03 07:32 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
newyorican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-03 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #19
29. I doubt it...
Pierce, a fixture among the white supremacist fringe in the United States since his involvement with George Lincoln Rockwell's American Nazi Party in the 1960s, died suddenly from cancer on July 23, 2002. He was 68.

http://www.adl.org/learn/Ext_US/pierce_up.asp

Pretty silly question though.
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-03 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #16
37. Put your links up guy, if I haven't read 'em I will, okay?
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sistersofmercy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-03 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #9
31. Amen to that
I'm very familar with the story, didn't need to read the insert but did you know that Moussad used an American woman to entice him so he could be kidnapped and smuggled back to Israel?
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loudnclear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-03 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
24. Mummar is smarter than all the US admin together
The outcome of his moves will not be fully known for years.
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GRClarkesq Donating Member (595 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-03 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
28. Since when do the Isrealis care about "pressure" from the Arab League
Everyone knows they have "the bomb" and I cannot see and foreseeable events causing them to disclose or end their program.
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