Bomber hits U.S. convoy; 8 Afghans dead (US Soldiers at scene delete photos of AP cameraman)

[maddezmom]

KABUL, Afghanistan - A suicide car bomber attacked an American convoy in eastern Afghanistan on Sunday, and up to eight Afghans were killed and 22 injured in the blast or by subsequent gunfire from U.S. soldiers, officials said.

Hundreds of Afghans gathered to protest the violence, blocking the road and throwing rocks at police.

The suicide bomber hit the American convoy with an explosives-packed minivan, said Noor Agha Zawok, the spokesman for the governor of Nangarhar province.

American soldiers opened fire after the attack, Zawok said, killing or wounding some Afghans and sparking angry demonstrations in the region — just 30 miles west of the Pakistan border.

U.S. soldiers at the scene deleted photos taken by a freelance photographer working for The Associated Press and video taken by a freelancer working for AP Television News. Neither the photographer nor the cameraman witnessed the suicide attack or the subsequent gunfire. It wasn't immediately known why the soldiers deleted the photos and videos. The U.S. military didn't immediately comment on the matter.

more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070304/ap_on_re_as/afghan_violence

Western troops kill 8 Afghans after attack - police
04 Mar 2007 09:33:57 GMT
Source: Reuters

MORE >>
(Updates with a senior official confirming civilian deaths)

By Dawood Wafa

~snip~

The eight civilians were killed on a main road outside the city of Jalalabad.

"Initial reports indicate that eight civilians have been killed in the firing," said provincial police spokesman Abdul Ghafour. A hospital doctor said 29 civilians were hurt.

~snip~


Several people who identified themselves as residents of the Sangin district said up to 30 civilians had been killed in NATO bombing in the area.

They said woman and children were among the dead.

A senior provincial official who wished to remain anonymous, confirmed civilian deaths and said he was aware of 11 killed.

more:http://mobile.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/SP197422.htm

[HuffleClaw]

1. 'deleted photos' ???!!!

they'll claim, when pressed, it was a 'security matter' !

[rodeodance]

2. whow-----just zapping the pictures-----whow.

[WiseButAngrySara]

3. Have they been given orders to rewrite history? ...n/t

[annabanana]

4. The military didn't "immediately" comment on the matter. .

Anyone who thinks they're going to comment "eventually" had better have some subpeona boots on.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

17. oh, they will comment.

"We are investigating the allegations, but believe the reports to be unfounded."
a week later
"Our investigation continues and is making progress."
one month later
"It appears as though several troops acted without orders and exceeded their authority."
three months later
"Our investigation is complete. Mistakes were made and we have learned from them."

[maddezmom]

5. update: Ambush on U.S. convoy leaves 16 dead

KABUL, Afghanistan - A "complex" ambush involving a suicide car bomb and militant gunfire killed 16 Afghan civilians and wounded 25 people during an attack on a coalition convoy in eastern Afghanistan on Sunday, officials said.

The suicide bomber hit the American convoy with an explosives-packed minivan, said Noor Agha Zawok, the spokesman for the governor of Nangarhar province, and militants then fired gunfire from several directions, the U.S. military said. Coalition forces returned fire in defense of the attack, the U.S. said.

It wasn't immediately clear if the Afghans were killed by the militants gunfire or that of the U.S. soldiers.

more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070304/ap_on_re_as/afghan_violence

[maddezmom]

6. "We regret the death of innocent Afghan citizens as a result of the Taliban extremists'

"We regret the death of innocent Afghan citizens as a result of the Taliban extremists' cowardly act," said Lt. Col. David Accetta.

"Once again the terrorists demonstrated their blatant disregard for human life by attacking coalition forces in a populated area, knowing full well that innocent Afghans would be killed and wounded in the attack."

In the Afghan government's account of the incident, Interior Ministry spokesman Zmarai Bashiri said the attack was staged on an American convoy at 8:45 a.m.

"There were no casualties to the foreign forces, but the American forces became emotional and opened fire on Afghans in the area because they feared another bomb attack," he said.



http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/03/04/sunday/index.html

[Henny Penny]

7. Absolutely disgusting!!!!!

"After a suicide bomber attacked their military convoy in Afghanistan today, US troops opened fire and killed eight civilians and wounded more than 30, Afghan police said.

In a separate incident, two NATO soldiers were killed during combat operations in the south yesterday. Their nationalities were not given.

The civilians were killed on a main road outside the city of Jalalabad in the east of the country after a suicide car-bomber attacked the US convoy.

There were no reports of casualties among the US troops and it was unclear why they opened fire on civilians.

"We have eight confirmed killed and more than 30 wounded, some of whom are in critical condition," said provincial police spokesman Abdul Ghafour. "

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2007/0304/breaking8.htm

I'm reminded of the reprisals the NAZIs used to take in occuppied France etc.


Col. David Accetta... How do you sleep at night?

[Kagemusha]

8. Because his men are alive.

Not that shooting civilians has anything to do with that, but that is the basis by which he will sleep at night.

[Henny Penny]

9. Perhaps he should think that by this kind of behaviour

they are greatly increasing support for their enemy and probably greatly reducing the chances of his men remaining alive.

And with the all too obvious lies... any dwindling support he has in the rest of the world dwindles further....

[Kagemusha]

16. Lies or not, it had to have been a split second decision.

It only takes one soldier who thinks he's being shot at for an entire unit to respond. Being a civilian within firing range in that situation is being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I doubt these people had the time to think up anything intentional but, this could easily have been a mistake.

But no, he's not going to think about that, because he still has a job to do tomorrow morning, whether mistakes were made or not. That's why I habitually focus my ire on politicians who have lots of time outside of a war zone to think about what's going on and who still are making the wrong decisions.

[GreenZoneLT]

11. Oh, bullshit

You can't tell anything from that story. You think our guys lie, and fucking Afghan police officials DON'T? The Afghan police are riddled with Taliban sympathizers; you can't make any definite conclusions from those two versions of the event.

[Warren Stupidity]

19. I can draw one conclusion abou thtis.

The fact that our military went after the photographs is pretty damning. It is a guilty act.

[ohio2007]

26. I draw another conclusion.

al Jazeera stringers would "happen" to be at intersections when IED's went off in Iraq....how convenient to be at the right place at the right time.

Bottom by line is this;
If the Taliban didn't painstakingly plan this bombing in a area populated by civilians,we wouldn't be talking about some stringer getting paid for money shots.

Taliban 'mission accomplished'
jmo

[Warren Stupidity]

27. Interesting.

The article cited:

"U.S. soldiers at the scene deleted photos taken by a freelance photographer working for The Associated Press and video taken by a freelancer working for AP Television News. Neither the photographer nor the cameraman witnessed the suicide attack or the subsequent gunfire. It wasn't immediately known why the soldiers deleted the photos and videos. The U.S. military didn't immediately comment on the matter."


You:
"al Jazeera stringers would "happen" to be at intersections when IED's went off in Iraq....how convenient to be at the right place at the right time."

Do you make these kinds of reading comprehension errors often?

[ohio2007]

34. cherry picking

I said
Bottom by line is this;
If the Taliban didn't painstakingly plan this bombing in a area populated by civilians,we wouldn't be talking about some stringer getting paid for money shots.

Do you know what stringers are ?

.... freelance photographer working for The Associated Press and video taken by a freelancer working for AP Television News.

Warren Stupidity

hmmmmmm

[Warren Stupidity]

36. You were caught flat out making stuff up.

You claimed they were al jazeera stringers, they weren't, they were working for the AP. You claimed they were conveniently at the scene of the incident when it happened, they weren't, they arrived after the incident was over.

Have a nice day.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Warren Stupidity]

41. Thanks for noticing. nt.

[MGKrebs]

12. Is it too much trouble to qualify such statements with an "if"?

You seem to easily assume the worst behavior for US troops but can muster no outrage for the bombers.
IF the US soldiers fired randomly into a crowd, it would be disgusting. But IF there was small arms fire coming from the area, what are they supposed to do?

Words are important.

[Henny Penny]

29. You're right... words are important...

but IF only we had the pictures to back up your rose tinted view of the whole event.....

I'm sure most of the US soldiers are innocent of any wrong doing... but they have been put in a dreadful position where such things occur and their commanding officers think its ok to lie about them rather than lobby for an end to hostilities.

We have a few estimates of how many have died in the name of democracy in Iraq... but what do we know of the Afghan casualties??

[coalition_unwilling]

30. What are "they" supposed to do? How about a little

"fire discipline"? Or have we now turned all of Afghanistan and Iraq into giant free-fire zones? Reminiscent of "we had to destroy the city in order to save it" talk ca. 1968 South Vietnam.

[GreenZoneLT]

10. Dumbasses

My guess, based on the minimal convoy security training I've received, is that they assumed anyone with a camera was somehow associated with the bombing, and deleted the video/photos for "force protection" reasons, or to prevent them being used in propaganda videos by the Taliban.

These kids get pretty much zero training on dealing with the media, and they're definitely told that anyone near the scene of a bombing with a cell phone or IED needs to be detained and questioned. Of course, every person in the Middle East has a cell phone, because their land lines are virtually nonexistent, and photo/video stringers are all over the place.

Once again, a case where shooters fuck up a non-kinetic campaign.

See Nicholas Kristoff's NYT column today (premium content, sorry) for an example of fighting terrorism the smart way, in Djibouti, where the main mission is disaster relief and other civil affairs work.

[Warren Stupidity]

28. Your guess is unsupported by the facts as reported.

"U.S. soldiers at the scene deleted photos taken by a freelance photographer working for The Associated Press and video taken by a freelancer working for AP Television News. Neither the photographer nor the cameraman witnessed the suicide attack or the subsequent gunfire. It wasn't immediately known why the soldiers deleted the photos and videos. The U.S. military didn't immediately comment on the matter."

The destruction of the video and still photos remains a guilty act that calls into question the entire official story.

[Bonobo]

37. WHAAAAAAAT!!??

"they assumed anyone with a camera was somehow associated with the bombing, and deleted the video/photos for "force protection" reasons, or to prevent them being used in propaganda videos by the Taliban."

Man, are you stone-cold fucking nuts? That is the single STOOOOPIDEST thing I have EVER read! I'm in awe of your powers of self-deception!

[TheWatcher]

39. Oh come on, at least he's entertaining

You don't get to see such raw stupidity so proudly displayed in the wild very often.

He's a gem. A case study in self-flagellating delusion.

[rodeodance]

13. AP: 16 dead in U.S.-Afghan militant violence------ U.S. Marine Special Forces fleeing

http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/AFGHAN_VIOLENCE?SITE=WIMAD&SECTION=HOME

Mar 4, 8:04 AM EST

16 dead in U.S.-Afghan militant violence

By RAHIM FAIEZ
Associated Press Writer


JALALABAD, Afghanistan (AP) -- U.S. Marine Special Forces fleeing a militant ambush opened fire on civilians on a busy highway in eastern Afghanistan, wounded Afghans said. Up to 16 people were killed and 34 wounded in the violence, officials said.

A suicide car bomber hit the American convoy with an explosives-packed minivan, said Noor Agha Zawok, the spokesman for the governor of Nangarhar province, and militant gunmen then fired from several directions, the U.S. military said. The coalition forces returned fire, the military said.

It was not immediately clear if the Afghans were killed by the militants gunfire or that of the U.S. soldiers. One U.S. soldier was injured in the attack, and the military said 16 civilians died and 25 were injured.

Hundreds of Afghans gathered to protest the violence, blocking the road and throwing rocks at police, with some demonstrators shouting "Death to America! Death to Karzai," a reference to President Hamid Karzai.

Maj. William Mitchell, a U.S. military spokesman, said the suicide attack was a "complex ambush," with militants firing guns at the soldiers from three different points.

"We certainly believe it's possible that the incoming fire from the ambush was wholly or partly responsible for the civilian casualties," he said.

[rodeodance]

14. even the US soldiers are conflicting if can take pics or not:

.......The freelance photographer, Rahmat Gul, said he took photos of a four-wheel drive vehicle with four bodies that had been shot to death inside.

An American soldier then took Gul's camera and deleted the photos. Gul said he later received permission to take photos from another soldier, but that the first soldier came back and angrily told him to delete the photos again. Gul said the soldier then raised his fist as if he was going to strike Gul.

The U.S. soldiers involved in the attack and ensuing gunfire were part of the U.S.-led coalition, not NATO's International Security Assistance Force. An official who asked not to be identified said the troops were Marine Special Forces.

The casualty toll cited by Afghan officials was not as high as the numbers given by the U.S.-led coalition. Jalalabad hospital director Ajmel Pardus said four of the dead had been taken to his hospital. He said at least 22 people were injured.

Lt. Col. David Accetta, a coalition spokesman, said the attack demonstrated the militants' "blatant disregard for human life" by attacking forces in a populated area. NATO officials repeatedly say that suicide bombs aimed at international and Afghan forces kill far more civilians than soldiers.

[Kagemusha]

20. Yeah, a guy looking after his men and not caring about the free press.

I'm sure a lot of people will consider the guy who had the photos deleted to be a hero for keeping men from being dragged down by the justice system when they're trying to fight a shooting war. That's not how I think, but I've heard tons of such arguments from others over the years.

Actually I wonder if the soldier had any right to do that but, while I'm sure destroying army photographic evidence is not considered acceptable, destroying private property on his own initiative, er.. I have no idea actually.

[Warren Stupidity]

32. The reporters were there AFTER the incident.

They were documenting what had happened, not what was happening. There was no emergency at the time that could justify the confiscation and destruction of these images. Nobody was fighting anyone. The fight was long over.

[Kagemusha]

35. The justification was clearly to destroy evidence to avoid legal wrangling.

That is not behavior I support.

[rodeodance]

15. 2 troops killed in S. Afghan----but nationality NOT revealed yet:

......The purported spokesman, who identified himself as Qari Sajjad, said the explosion "destroyed two vehicles, killing or injuring American soldiers."

Sajjad said the attack was in revenge for "cruel acts" done to Afghans by U.S. forces.

In southern Afghanistan, meanwhile, two soldiers were killed during a combat operation Saturday, though NATO's International Security Assistance Force did not identify their nationalities or say where the violence happened.

Helmand province, where British troops operate, has seen a number of clashes the last several weeks. Canada also has large numbers of troops in the south, in neighboring Kandahar province.

[maddezmom]

18. more info :Afghans: U.S. troops shot at civilians

Afghans: U.S. troops shot at civilians By RAHIM FAIEZ, Associated Press Writer
14 minutes ago



JALALABAD, Afghanistan - U.S. Marines fleeing a militant ambush Sunday opened fire on civilian cars and pedestrians on a busy highway in eastern Afghanistan, wounded Afghans said. Up to 16 people were killed and 34 wounded in the violence, officials said.

A suicide attacker detonated an explosives-filled minivan as the American convoy approached, then militant gunmen fired on the troops inside the vehicles, who returned fire, the U.S. military said.

As the Americans sped away, they treated every car and person along the highway as a potential attacker, said Mohammad Khan Katawazi, the district chief of Shinwar. But Maj. William Mitchell, a U.S. military spokesman, said those killed and injured may have been shot by the militants.

More than a half dozen Afghans recuperating from bullet wounds told The Associated Press that the U.S. forces fired indiscriminately along at least a six-mile stretch of one of eastern Afghanistan's busiest highways — a route often filled not only with cars and trucks but Afghans on foot and bicycles.

more:http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070304/ap_on_re_as/afghan_violence;_ylt=Am7VL9QshIIVfOkJHYDgwyFvaA8F

[saigon68]

21. K & R

[babylonsister]

22. BBC: US troops kill Afghan civilians

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6416667.stm

US troops kill Afghan civilians
Afghan men shout anti-American slogans after the killing of civilians.
Local people accused the US soldiers of targeting civilians

An incident described by US forces in Afghanistan as a "complex ambush" has left 16 civilians dead.

The incident occurred on the road from the eastern city of Jalalabad to Pakistan when a suicide bomber targeted a convoy, sparking a fire fight.

Thousands of local people took to the streets, accusing the Americans of deliberately firing on the civilians.

Separately, Nato said two British soldiers had been killed in fighting in southern Afghanistan.

Spring offensive

The US military said a minibus containing explosives was driven at the convoy, injuring one soldier.

US troops were then attacked from several directions and returned fire in defence of the patrol.


The opened fire on everybody, the ones inside the vehicles and the ones on foot
Tur Gul, injured civilian

more...

[Zachstar]

23. Killed Civilians and destoyed evidence?

Yet again our Military proves to the world why we deserve never to be trusted again.

Time to leave the entire middle east before more troops go nuts.

[maddezmom]

24. Afghan media: U.S. troops deleted images

KABUL, Afghanistan - Afghan journalists covering the aftermath of a suicide bomb attack and shooting in eastern Afghanistan Sunday said U.S. troops deleted their photos and video and warned them not to publish or air any images of U.S. troops or a car where three Afghans were shot to death.

~snip~

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070304/ap_on_re_as/afghan_us_censorship;_ylt=Avpzv5oS_yOKhFOCFd4EhpVvaA8F

[ohio2007]

25. ...""blatant disregard for human life" .... (another article excerpt )

<snip>
Lt. Col. David Accetta, a coalition spokesman, said the attack demonstrated the militants' "blatant disregard for human life" by attacking forces in a populated area. NATO officials repeatedly say that suicide bombs aimed at international and Afghan forces kill far more civilians than soldiers.

<snip>



http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070304/ap_on_re_as/afghan_violence_25

It's true, the talibans' aim is to get western "stringers" to report news of civilian causalities.
But without mentioning what it takes for the Taliban to set up the "ambush" is a moot point.

What really happened is this; Taliban "set up" the soft target civilians in order to "ambush" the troops.
btw
It's not like the official Taliban uniformed troops are going to stick out like a sore thumb in the civilian population either. They are a guerrilla army that wouldn't hesitate or think twice about cross dressing into womans clothes !

dunno, maybe next time cooler heads will prevail by the NATO on scene officers and the troops will not spray an area thick with civilian traffic.

but

...Maybe that is what the Taliban's true intentions are leading up to the for the next suicide bomber mission planned?

[Henny Penny]

31. That is your opinion...

presumably given from rather far away!

[ohio2007]

33. And you are entitled to your opinion

presumably you have been there and done that

[TheWatcher]

40. You are entitled to your stupidity

You go there and do that on a constant basis.