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superconnected Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 08:21 PM
Original message
Most Americans Want Public Policies to Prevent Obesity
THURSDAY, Dec. 28 (HealthDay News) -- A large majority of Americans say they support changes in public policy to stem the rising tide of obesity among adults, a new survey shows.

"There is a lot of support for employer and health policies aimed at preventing obesity," said lead researcher Bernard Fuemmeler, an assistant professor in the department of community and family medicine at Duke University Medical Center, in Durham, N.C.


"This study provides tangible evidence that people support wide-scale policy changes that can affect obesity in the U.S.," Fuemmeler added.


The findings appear in the January issue of the American Journal of Preventive Medicine

more...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/hsn/20061228/hl_hsn/mostamerica...
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BattyDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. Public policies???
Why the fuck can't people exercise some self-control? Do they really want their employer, the government and their health insurance company dictating what they can and cannot eat? Employers won't get tax breaks or a break on their health insurance costs unless the employee loses weight. How long before companies stop hiring people who exceed a certain weight? How long before they start threatening an employee's job unless he/she loses weight? How long before the government and insurance companies offer them more financial breaks for employees who don't participate in potentially dangerous activities, people who don't drink, people who are monogamous and/or only engage in "certain" types of sexual activity?

Damn it, America - does there have to be a fucking law concerning every aspect of your lives?!? Grow up and take some responsibility for your own behavior! :grr:

Obesity and poor nutrition is a major problem in this country ... but this isn't the solution. This could have many unforeseen complications and a new type of discrimination could arise in the workplace. JMHO
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Nevernose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Some of the solutions in the article aren't about making new laws.
Or at least stupid ones, or ones that promote government intrusion or personal irresponsibility.

"I have one patient who was excited to receive the wellness benefit -- six visits with a certified dietitian during the year. Her employer let her take time from work for the first visit, but said subsequent visits would have to be on her time. This same employer allows employees to take time for doctor visits without penalty," she said.

Reclassifying certified, trained dietitians as doctors for insurance purposes would save everybody money in the long run. Government, employers, and employees.

Another good point is One problem is misinformation about weight loss. "Most individuals that present for nutrition counseling have significant amounts of misinformation about food and beverages that prevent them from being successful in weight loss or weight management," Kolasa said.

A public information campaign isn't new law, it's just good public policy.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. all that information can be found on the web
I guess it has to be spoon-fed to people, no pun intended
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BattyDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #7
30. No need to "spoon feed" me - I read the article before I responded
Edited on Sat Dec-30-06 05:19 PM by BattyDem
I have no problem with education, but when an individual's weight becomes tied to tax breaks and lower insurance rates for a person's employer, there are going to be problems and discrimination.

Employers always look at the bottom line. The plan is to provide "government incentives for companies that reduced the cost of health insurance for employees who had healthy lifestyles and shed extra pounds." Over a period of time, companies will be getting tax breaks and/or lower insurance rates based on the overall health of their employees. Do you honestly think that overweight people are going to be treated fairly? If there are going to be financial incentives offered (and I don't think there should be), then the tax breaks should be given directly to the individual and/or their co-pays and deductibles should be reduced - keep the employer out of the equation. Reward the individual for the healthy choices, not the employer. Don't put employers in a position where they can dictate how people live or punish people for not saving the company money.

Also, what happens to people who are morbidly obese? For them, losing weight isn't simply a matter of dieting. Obesity is a disease and it should be treated as such. Insurance companies should be required to pay for surgery, which is often the only thing that works. I know three people who had to have the surgery. One is a good friend; two are acquaintances. Every one of them tried diets, exercise plans and medication. For years, nothing worked. What happens when their employers make subtle threats about their jobs because their health insurance premiums are much higher than everyone else's? :shrug:

I still think the overall plan of giving tax breaks and reduced rates - based on weight - reeks of discrimination. JMHO

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Nevernose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #7
40. And the Internet is always accurate?
Not to mention the people who don't have reasonable access. Or the people who don't know that they, or anyone else, has a problem, so why would they bother to research it on the Internet?

And some people NEED to be hand-fed information. That's why we have schools, and education doesn't end at the age of eighteen or high school graduation. Not everybody is intelligent or intellectually curious. They don't know the same things we do. For instance, as recently as 2004, most people in America, or at least half, thought reelecting George Bush was a swell idea. Another instance: most people haven't seen "Supersize Me," and thus don't know that most fast-food salads have more calories than fast food hamburgers, and people don't know that most diabetes these days is caused by obesity, or that you can't lose weight or prevent a gain of weight (in most cases) by balancing caloric intake with exercise.

I'm a big proponent of the theory that what's good for insurance companies is bad for Americans. However, in a UHC system (of course, one designed by me), dietitians would qualify for coverage the same as doctors. It would be good for everybody, business, workers, and government. In many plans right now, they don't.

And as far as personal responsibility is concerned, where do you draw the line? How about the person found at fault for the car accident is ineligible for insurance coverage? What about the people who chose to get in the car with an irresponsible driver? What about the fastest growing field of medicine -- sports medicine? These are people who have suffered exercise related injuries in an effort to avoid the problems of obesity-related injury? What about drug addicts? Is addiction a disease? If so, why should we treat drug addicts with public health resources and not obesity?

What I'm ultimately saying is that public policy, both regulatory and nonregulatory, plays an important role in public health, and that the public deserves the best health possible, regardless of "personal responsibility."
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roseBudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #7
84. I am much more likely to make better choices if the info is at hand at decision time
as I shouldn't have to memorize, print or bring a laptop when I order. I am all for it.

In addition low income people who are most affected by obesity are least likely to have web access.
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rebel with a cause Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-31-06 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #6
68. Did you not notice the fallacy of this article in whole.
The headline reads "Most Americans" and the article contains these words "A large majority of Americans say they support changes in public policy to stem the rising tide of obesity among adults, a new survey shows." How do they know what most Americans want? Oh they took a survey. How many people did they poll? Why they polled 1,139 people. Okay, how did they poll them? By telephone. Okay, and what time of the day did they poll them? Oh the article doesn't tell us that.

First of all, anyone who has ever taken a research class knows there are many ways to make a survey come out the way you want it to. You also know that a telephone survey is one of the easiest ones to work to get those wanted results. A mailed survey is much more reliable because people can do it when they want and answer questions after thinking about them. Not just give an answer to get off the phone.

Second of all, how does 1,139 people represent most Americans? This may be a fairly good size poll for a survey, but no way can you state as a fact that this represents the majority of Americans. They could have said, If the results of this survey is correct, blah blah blah, but not state it as a fact. Bad, bad journalism.

Just another way to create a moral panic if you ask me.
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dogfacedboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #6
93. As a type2 diabetic, I can attest to the value of good nutrition.
I have to stay with a diet that helps to control my blood sugar. The thing is, it's not a 'special diet'. It's the diet we should all be living on. Correct intake of proteins, carbs, fats, fluids and vitamins. I learned what I needed to know from 2 good dietitians. There should be a huge information campaign regarding good nutrition and exercise. Our youth needs to be reached on this.
When I was growing up in the 60's/70's, the kids were not as heavy as many I see today.
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #1
13. Ah, yes ... the "Personal Responsibility" police are out in force
Diabetics, you're next!

--p!
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #13
45. They are going after smokers
The diabetics are next along with the gays. Fucking lifestyle nazis I hate'em.
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customerserviceguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #45
91. Exactly
People who tell me what to eat, and what not to eat, and suggest that I just need "re-education" are no better than Repugs who say, "It's OK if you're homosexual, just excercise some 'self-control' and keep it in your pants."
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
42. MOST PEOPLE??
THe wording of that headline is neuro linguistic programming, just thought I should mention this.

Bandwagon technique, a lie designed to create the illusion that the majority thinks meddling in the eating habits of everyone is good idea and a foregone conclusion, it will occur.. that is what words like "most people" do,when the consciousness reads it. The words" MOST PEOPLE"... is an attempt to control consensus reality. Beware the propagandists. Hitler was very meddlesome into the lifestyles and'health' of the german people too. Eugenics isn't dead it just looks like a positive health based initiative now. Beware.
Also self responsibility is a lie too designed to EXCUSE blaming of the victim. Obesity is a problem because the corporate pushers are not accountable for the toxins they sell so cheap to poor people who can't afford organic, how little you know about others situations when you look at everyone else's problems as if they were living and were like YOU.
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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #42
87. Corporations who sell that crap (McDonalds) need to be
held accountable for their misleading advertising. Government subsidies for corn production need to end so that companies stop adding HFCS to anything and everything. Ingredients need to be listed prominently, not in some little square that's impossible to read. Also inform people (somehow) that fat free does not equal calorie free.
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Mikey929 Donating Member (290 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #87
101. We are a sad country
Where to begin? Nutrition is not rocket science. Do people really need to be told that eating buffalo wings and cheetos and guzzling Coke is bad for you? Do we need the government to decide absolutely everything we do in our lives???

I lost 25 pounds last year. How? I changed my diet. Lean meat, lots of veggies, and exercise. And portion control. I didn't need a government training program or some new laws to do it. I just did it. Some people are just going to be lazy and eat crap, no matter what the government says. That's the truth. There is so much information already out there on dieting and nutrition that no one can say they didn't know why they were fat. Typical exampe -- my secretary is really obese. What does she eat? For breakfast it's donuts and Coke, or else McDonalds breakfast sandwiches. For lunch it's fast food or pizza. And of course the snacks throughout the day. Both her kids are heavy and both are on ADHD meds. It is largely self-induced because of poor nutrition.

Government should be there to assist on the IMPORTANT things. Not meddle into whether I should eat a cheeseburger for dinner.
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-31-06 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #1
54. my thought exactly...
it's scary to think the govt or companies being given some type of clearance to discriminate against hiring a huge person or firing them if they are hired and don't follow a company mandated weight loss program (chills!)




www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable <<-- antibush prodem stickers/shirts
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
88. Lol good post! n/t
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
2. no they don't
Edited on Fri Dec-29-06 10:18 PM by pitohui
the majority of americans want the media to stop telling them what the fuck to eat, it has become clear that diets don't work for most people and that various medications (such as prozac, hormones, and steroids) cause weight gain yet people needing these would be stupid to stop taking those important medicines

in countries where people are still thin, like france, it's because they smoke like chimneys

we have a public policy, it's to discourage smoking, so people are going to over-all get fatter

any public policy to control what people eat is true dictatorship and just a way for some worthless spawn of rich people to get a job who wouldn't otherwise have one, after all, the rich dumb-asses can't just work at a gas station like we poor dumb-asses, they have to work on public policy

hell w. them
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
3. How about we just stop subsidizing unhealthy food?
Novel concept, I know. :eyes:
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NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #3
18. Bingo! High Fructose Corn Syrup is a killer
and it's in freaking EVERYTHING these days

I have tried to keep it out of the house altogether in the last 18 months and I have lost 20 pounds and am still losing weight

I didn't change anything else. Nothing. I still eat butter like a mad dog, love my bread and cookies and cakes and brownies. The difference is that I make them myself instead of buying them at the store.

Do a Google in HFCS and prepare to be pissed.
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ehrnst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #18
85. It was in some canned chopped TOMATOES I looked at!
Canned diced tomatoes with onions and green peppers - HFCS was the SECOND ingredient listed!
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #18
89. Corn Syrup is The Worst,
I hate it! It's what's making a lot of people fat.

They put it in everything YUK!
Holy Crap if I want fucking sugar then I'll eat dessert! :argh:
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MountainLaurel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #18
99. You can say that again.
Trying to weed that shit out of the shopping cart will take you an extra hour at least.
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YankeyMCC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #3
34. Are you nutz!
Do something against the interest of large corporations just because it's better for communities and people? You must be some kinda commie! :sarcasm:
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earlybelle Donating Member (99 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-31-06 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #3
72. Bingo!! Make healthy food cheaper so the poor can afford to eat healthy.
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54anickel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
4. How many of those in favor would be considered obese? The people
that support it probably believe it would reduce their health care/coverage costs without any "sweat" on their part so of course they'd be for it. There are a lot of causes of obesity besides lying around eating bon-bons all day, though people without a weight issue have a hard time buying that.

I'm all for public policy that would stop places like Mickey Ds from offering unhealthy crap for cheap though. Those dollar sliders are pretty tempting when you're outta dough between pay periods. Tastes shitty; More filling.
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Neshanic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:33 PM
Response to Original message
5. Ok, who's gonna tell the gang at the office that the snack machine goes?
Looks like a job for "Obesity Squad!" with Group Insurance Man.
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superconnected Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 11:40 PM
Response to Original message
8. I see this as away to discriminate - raise insurance rates, and cause
Edited on Fri Dec-29-06 11:44 PM by superconnected
companies not to hire overweight people.

Cheaper rates for the thin, is likely the point. And public acceptance for doing it is also likely the point of the publicist who wrote the article. But cheaper rates means charging more for the overweight, just as much as it can mean charging less for the thin. I doubt the insurance companies are going to take a profit cut by lowering current rates. they just wont raise the thin rates as fast, and they'll get acceptance to decide rates on weight.

I'm totally against this btw.
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MarkTwain Donating Member (902 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
9. In Total Agreement...
... along with profound and substantive changes in both the governmental and professional (medical, nutritional, educational) arenas as they pertain to both nutrition and exercise, it would be beneficial to this country and especially its children if many changes were enacted:

1. obesity - or, even just a moderately high BMI - should be severely penalized as a rate matter, just as any other insurance underwriting issue vis-a-vis health would be. There is no reason that those that do "push away from the table" and those that do incorporate an exercise regiment into their daily life, should have to support the bad lifestyles of those that do not.

2. a meaningful change in the school systems both in terms of the foods and beverages that are served and the exercise mandates that are part of the curriculum. The current "gym" classes are a joke in terms of their beneficial effects upon the children.

3. corporate tax incentives to implement and support corporate wellness centers. Governmental mandates to do the same within the public sector.

4. a major re-thinking of the United States food "industry," its subsidies, and the lax oversight and enforcement that it currently enjoys inclusive of a reorientation to the organic and the meatless.

For one, I am damn tired of having to listen to the constant whines of the overweight and the lazy that it's really "not their fault," much less having to pay for it in terms of my increased insurance premiums for the heart disease, cancer, diabetes and a slew of other maladies that are secondary to the "lifestyle" that they indulge.
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InkAddict Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. While I'm against insurance rate monitoring based on weight,
I'd be happy to see smaller portions at restaurants and more wholesome ingredients in packaged foods. Maybe they'd have a shorter freezer/shelf-life, but I've often found that foods made with the purest, finest, most wholesome ingredients taste great and one eats less of these foods to gain the same satisfaction, i.e., I'm more satisfied with a handful of trail mix versus a bagful of Ruffles for a snack.

Too much refined sugar, high-fructose corn syrup, emusifiers, and processed texturizers are just a few of the culprits in processed foods that are very bad for health; good fats are also essential to bodily functions in small doses.

But regulating higher rates against persons for eating too many carbs is not something I'd like to see unless we can agree on living wages, education programs, and job creation and training that provide equal opportunities to afford healthy food choices at home and away at every age and for any lifestyle!

Furthermore, it's just life that bodies don't all function properly even with the best foods, so blaming the victims of other environmental toxins, carcinogens, and stressed out gene pools, or any other idiopathic conditions is just not fair to those suffering with a body gone wrong. Good nutrition is important; it can improve health, but it's not often the cause of Americans' illnesses, pain, and/or suffering. A broken healthcare system that doesn't work at any cost for many American's is an issue that needs to be addressed pronto; then persons can obtain the medical advice needed to help them control themselves and their relationship to unhealthy foods.
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Massacure Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #9
36. Be careful with point number two...
I just graduated high school last year, and where I graduated from, we had to wear heart rate monitors and pedometers. In order to get an A we had to keep our heartbeat between 160 and 180 beats per minute and have 2500 steps on the pedometer. Sure we got a couple days where we were rewarded with a chance to go bowling or golfing or cross-country skiing, but gym class was hardly a joke...
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Feron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-31-06 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #9
61. Prejudiced much?!
BMI is BS. Weight is a lousy indicator of health since it doesn't discriminate between fat and everything else.

I eat as clean as possible and in moderation, abstain from soft drinks and alcohol, and run five times a week. Yet I'm considered obese by BMI. To get a "healthy" BMI, I would have to lose over thirty pounds and I only have about 5-10 pounds of fat on me (which is fine because I think that the fat free bikini/fitness model look is disgusting).

And I realize that when I pay my insurance each month, I pay for lifestyles that I may disagree with. Big deal. Everyone deserves health care even if you disagree with their choices.

Would you really rather big goverment or big insurance nosing into your private life??

-Not married and getting contraception?? Well since extramartial sex carries a higher risk of disease transmission, here's your higher rate.

The list goes on and on.

I agree that personal responsiblity comes into the equation when it comes to health, but the person will only change when ready. No amount of nagging and scorn will make a person change.




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UncleSepp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-04-07 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #9
117. Are there any exceptions to those rules?
See, I'd wonder about how such rules would work for someone like my mom. She has a high BMI. Yep, she's fat. She was thin her whole life and worked hard to stay fit, but she put on a lot of weight in the last few years. She still goes to the gym every day, and works in the yard - she doesn't have a problem pushing herself away from the table, either, and never has for as long as I can remember.

Under your system, would she be able to apply for some kind of exception, if she showed her receipts from the gym and perhaps some letters from her doctors?
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rebel with a cause Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 01:03 AM
Response to Original message
10. How about preventive health care for those of us
who have health issues that cause us to be prone to obesity. I have suffered from one since my late teens, and only recently have I began receiving treatment for it. Forty years too late.

Yes, there are some of us out here that can rightfully say it may not be all our fault. We do not overeat, and we work/exercise until our health becomes so bad that it limits us. My doctors, and I now have two of them, are happy if I can keep from gaining pounds and feel elated if I manage to lose five pounds in a month (or three for that matter). One way I've found for me to lose weight, is recently to save my life they pumped fluid from my body and in doing so enabled me to lose thirty pounds in nine days. I am on a diet of no sugar, low to no salt, and little if any fat and I am maintaining my level of obesity. You don't want to see me, then look the other way because I could care less if you are tired of me. I am tired of skinny idiots passing judgement on me.

Ok, I feel better now. Have a good night.
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 07:32 AM
Response to Original message
12. I went grocery shopping yesterday.
While I was there I was thinking about a report that had just come out that said poor kids tend to become obese more than their affluent counterparts. Hmmm. Could it be their moms can buy 3 boxes of mac and cheese for a dollar as opposed to ONE orange?? Could it be high fat ground beef costs about half of lean ground beef?? Sadly, unprocessed foods - which we all should eat - are more expensive and require time to prepare. Many people in this country are struggling, working two or three jobs in order to afford the basics. There are multiple causes for obesity in this country, but the rising cost of nutritious food and the lack of a parent around to prepare meals is contributing to the problem.
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diamidue Donating Member (606 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #12
17. My nephew is that poor.
And he is also obese. He is in his mid-30's and has the intelligence of about a 14 year old. He shares a tiny apt. with 2 others, none of whom can cook. They work menial jobs when they can find them. They eat either fast food or any prepared food they can microwave. No insurance. I think some of these studies assume that all obese people are well educated and only need a little nudge to improve their diets - that they all have jobs with health care, or can afford membership in a gym. They are ignoring the many, many people out there with sub-normal intelligence and those who live in poverty. These are the ones taxing the emergency rooms more likely than not.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-04-07 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #17
122. "He is in his mid-30's and has the intelligence of about a 14 year old."
Shouldn't he be elgible to be institutionalized for mental retardation?
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NotGivingUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #12
24. that's it...and they load msg in all the processed which is making people fat
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #12
27. I'll never buy this "it's cheaper to eat crap!" argument
Rice, roots and beans are about the greatest bang-for-your-buck food combination out there. You can make an incredible pasta sauce for about $3.95 that will last you through weeks. And with a little oil and some seasonings, these can all taste incredibly good while remaining very healthy and very cheap. In general most people who complain about healthy food being outrageously expensive are:

1) Addicted to the taste of foods high in sugar, corn syrup and animal fats.
2) Unwilling to cook for any amount of time.
3) Habituated to certain types of food and incurious about new tastes that might be made more cheaply.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. Ramen Noodles - 5 for $1
Hard to beat that.
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. Bulk rice is way cheaper
Edited on Sat Dec-30-06 04:41 PM by jpgray
Whereas each package of ramen noodles is about 3oz, you can get 50 -pounds- of rice for about $40. Add in the accouterments to flesh out an equal pricing and you get a far healthier, far cheaper, far tastier meal.
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BestCenter Donating Member (284 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. I don't think that your average bachelor or college student
pays $40 for rice in bulk. You have to factor in the ease to prepare a food when you're thinking about the price.
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. You don't have to buy in bulk, that was only an example--it's still cheaper
Edited on Sat Dec-30-06 04:44 PM by jpgray
A difference of 25 minutes or so in cooking time is hardly going to make or break anyone. But in any case my argument was only that the idea of people being -forced- to buy crappy food is patently ridiculous.
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #33
43. Sometimes
The area in which you live there are not good places to get "healthy food" ever go to some cities? There are no big groceries, there are corner stores. And the corner stores do not get much produce. They make more money selling stuff that won't rot so fast so they don't have produce.. In some areas in some cities and less affluent neighborhoods it is more difficult than you think to find affordable healthy food.Yet there is fast food on every corner, and it can take two busses to get to a corner store that has produce. On a cold night after working all day for minimum wage are you inclined to drag your exhausted cold bones back on the bus to ride for an hour to get a few bananas and a head of lettuce? Or hit the fast food joint and go home? THINK. Not everyone lives in a nice part of the city.Not everyone has easy access to the healthy stuff.
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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-31-06 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #27
63. as long as you don't eat fruit, vegies or meats
and nothing but beans and rice, then yes, it's cheaper.

I've spent the last 20 years feeding 3 boys on almost nothing. We're doing much better now, I have about $250-300 a month to spend on food for 5 people. But I still can't afford nearly enough fresh fruit and vegies that 3 teen boys need. :(
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rebel with a cause Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-31-06 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #63
64. Three teen boys!
IF I know teen boys, they will eat you out of house and home. ;-) I raised two children on a limited budget and know it can be really hard. I'm glad you are doing better now and hope you continue to do so.

By the way, I have eaten a lot of rice and beans over the years, Caribbean food you know, and although it is a good food, I agree with you that alone it is not enough for a healthy diet. You don't see Latino people, unless they are in dire circumstances, existing on r&b only either. Salads, vegetables and fruits are eaten along with them. Oh, and of course meat.

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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-31-06 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #27
78. Read Barbara Ehrenreich's "Nickel and Dimed" for her experience with poverty
It's a well-researched personal account of her year as an undercover journalist seeing if she could actually support herself on minimum wage jobs in various parts of the country. Bottom line: barely to not at all, though most DUers understand that much.

Her comments on diet are telling: exhaustion from trying to make ends meet takes a toll, and in the places she found to live in she was lucky to find a mini-fridge and a microwave, much less storage space and a pot big enough to cook lentils or beans in.

Hekate

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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #27
102. Pasta sauce
I would like the recipe for your incredible pasta sauce, and be sure and put how many gallons you get on $3.95. Thanks.
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bicentennial_baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #27
114. ...
:applause:
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ckramer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 08:56 AM
Response to Original message
14. Are they also support the public policy of national health care?
Talking about political nearsightedness.

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toopers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
15. Wait until we have federal health insurance and medical care . . .
the politicians will take complete control of our lives. They will try and tell us what we are allowed to eat, what we are allowed to do, what we can inhale . . . etc.
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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 01:52 AM
Response to Reply #15
80. Yes, isn't that a shame the way Canadians are being mistreated that way?
Single provider universal healthcare is sorely needed in the US. Employers and private insurance companies should be taken out of the process. Our system's not working. We could cover everyone, and do a better job of it, for no more than we're collectively paying right now.
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davsand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
16. I'd think a re-vamp of the "food pyramid" would be a good start.
The diet our own government is pushing hasn't done much to help the problem. Seems to me that there's an awful lot of information out there to support the idea that you can't REALLY live a healthy life eating all the carbs and grains our own government is pushing in that food pyramid. I'm also less than thrilled at the lack of information about the meat choices and alternatives for that.

Similarly, I'll also go out on a limb and suggest that maybe there could be an effort made to EDUCATE about nutrition and food additives (like Trans fats and High Fructose Corn Syrup just to make a start) so that people realize just how prominent that crap is in our food. Hidden Sodium in our food is another issue--but I'm not EVEN gonna get started on that here...

I made the comment the other day when kevsand and I were at the gym that it would be a smart insurance company that would offer incentives to people who actually join a gym and then show up there on a regular basis. (I know--preventive care and proactive action is kind of a novel concept, but hey--we can dream--right?)

If you really stop to think about it, the big pharma companies stand to make a whole lot more money off of an overweight and sickly population. If everybody is getting treated for Diabetes, High Cholesterol, High Blood Pressure and heart disease the pill makers are gonna make record profits--and we all better realize that IS the true goal.

If they are ever serious about our health we'll have Universal Health Care along with some meaningful nutritional education and legitimate medical research studies about wellness. I expect that's gonna happen sometime REAL soon now. Don't YOU?


Laura
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-31-06 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #16
66. One of the few things our local insurance companies do right is
to give a $20 per month reduction in premiums to anyone who signs up with a health club and attends 12 times a month. (In my case, it's swimming at the YWCA.)
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davsand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #66
86. That $20 would help cover the dues for our gym.
It wouldn't pay ALL of it, but it would be a start...

I need to start writing some letters to my insurance company, I think. Maybe I'll even suggest it to my employer as a part of our insurance coverage.

Regards!


Laura
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Overseas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
19. We interrupt this discussion for a commercial-- you deserve some fries and coke ! EOM
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
20. LOL, most Americans ARE THEMSELVES obese.
Somebody needs to look in the mirror and deal with the log in their own eye before yapping about the mote in somebody else's.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
21. weight NOT being my battle i say, f* this shit. i cannot stand all these
people dictating others choices. i think it is horrible. i think it is such a huge misstep. it will never end of a group telling others how they must live. i see our society strongly and quickly going in this direction and i am so concerned. god can give us free will, but we the people are so inadaquit, we cannot help but dictate to others. the perfect truly feel their choices are so right we all want to be them. we dont. they do not get it. but we dont want to be the perfect. that alone is their imperfection. we do not want to be that person, and we cannot be forced to be that person. so what is left but to demonize, criminalize, nannaize people to be who the few want us to be.
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FlaGranny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
22. I wonder how
many people who use the tired old - people should take some personal responsibility for their obesity actually know how different kinds of food affect your appetite, your susceptibility for diabetes, various inflammatory reactions, and all the other ways food affects your life, physically and emotionally. The main problem, as I see it, is not gluttony and laziness. It is lack of information AND a bombardment from advertisers to buy their latest delicious poison.

Now, I guess almost everyone knows that calories in should equal calories out to maintain your weight. What most people are not educated about is how your food choices affect how much you want to eat. In other words, some foods actually make you hungry - the foods that are high on the glycemic scale, the same foods that set off type 2 diabetes. There are actually foods (whole grain, vegetable, and proteins) that limit your appetite and fill you up, even if you don't eat a lot of them. The high glycemic foods, if your diet is limited mostly to them, you can eat large amounts of every day and still get hungrier and hungrier, no matter how many calories you've eaten.

This is what needs to be taught and hammered into people's heads. We'll never conquer obesity until people understand that some foods just make you hungrier and until manufacturers make more healthy choices available. I won't hold my breath on the manufacturers though, because if they made their foods satisfying to the appetite, you wouldn't buy as much and their bottom line would suffer.

P. S. You'd have to eat 5 ounces of turkey breast to equal the calories in one glazed donut. Most people could eat 6 donuts if they tried. How many could eat 30 ounces of turkey breast?

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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #22
44. Dieting makes you gain
Read the minnesota starvation study. Dieting changes your bodies set point. It slows down the metabolism. This is why people who diet yo yo even though they are eating less.
Our bodies are designed for survival not vanity and the corporations, fast food , the diet industry along with fashion exploit this. Looking "healthy" attracts"mates" so feeling bad you seek something to stabilize your mood food especially a drug cocktail made out of food, than you get addicted. you diet and your set point drops again you are thin temporarily until the weight creeps up,and again you feel so self aggrandized until your body in an effort to fight what it thinks is scarcity slows the metabolism so the diet portions you now eat make you fatter, Now you feel bad hate yourself because everyone is screaming you are a moral failure and take some responsibility they screech, so you either try to regulate your moods with food or you starve and further drive down your set point.And the fat comes back double time..It is called YO YO for a reason and it is VERY PROFITABLE for clothes makers, food sellers and diet & weight-loss potion peddlers.It does alot of DAMAGE to your body. I say FUCK DIETING. Learn to listen to your body and recognize real hunger and satiation from emotional eating and food addictive behaviors I am doing this myself..and I find my diet has changed without me thinking about it, and my weight is dropping all by itself because I accept my body and recognize it has more wisdom about what this body needs than diets and diet advice givers do.

http://www.bodypositive.com/whatisit.htm
http://www.possibility.com/epowiki/Wiki.jsp?page=Effect...
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FlaGranny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #44
49. I know, I went through it for years
dieting, losing weight, gaining it all back, and it being harder and harder every time to lose the weight. I'll bet I've lost and gained hundreds of pounds over the years. I think I've finally got it figured out, much like you. Now I stay away from HFCS, sugar, white flour, and transfats and anything that contains them - well, a bit of sugar sometimes, but much much less than average. When you do that and just put a bit of effort into watching WHAT foods you eat, suddenly every day you are less hungry and have fewer cravings. It only takes a week or so to notice a difference. It is a lesson I sincerely wish I had learned a long long time ago. Someone who has never had a weight problem could probably never understand the effect eating the wrong foods can have on you. My blood lipids have all returned to normal and my weight is on its way down, fasting blood sugar, too.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
23. Push to have high-fructose corn syrup outlawed, then.
NT!

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NotGivingUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
25. the policy change we need is to not allow all the poisonous crap
that they hide in all processed food...the big one is MSG. funny how the media never mentions what this does to people. whenever they need to fatten up rats for experiments...they shoot 'em up with MSG. it's in everything, and they hide it under a wide variety of innocent sounding names.
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crud76 Donating Member (111 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #25
39. Be On The Lookout
For the other glutimides beside MSG, which are disguised with names like autolyzed yeast extract, modified corn starch, spice, and my favorite: natural flavor. That's right! The government says it's OK to call something that is derived from a natural product "natural flavor," even though after it's cracked in the lab it's a chemical, and probably a very bad one, too.
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NotGivingUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #39
46. oh yeah...gotta love the 'natural flavor' one
it's so disgusting that they are able to get away with this.
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NotGivingUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #39
47. BTW...welcome to DU!
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anitar1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
26. Obese people should be jailed.
Specxial prisons should be built for them . They could be fed 600 calories a day . This would be good for them and would take them away from our offended eyes. We would also be free to choose a new subject to condemn. SARCASM !!!
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
28. Great! Let's Take Potato Chips, Soft Drinks, HFCS and Automobiles Off the Market!
Oh wait, what was that?

You don't want anything that will affect you?
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sofa king Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
35. It seems pretty simple to me.
Edited on Sat Dec-30-06 05:10 PM by sofa king
Cigarettes can't be advertised on television because they have (finally) been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to be bad for you. Strong spirits also have timeslot limitations on advertising.

So get your asses out there and prove that fast food is unhealthy. Yeah, I know a lot of you are doing that already, but you have to keep doing it. Make it a matter of public policy by making it your concern, and making your representatives know it's your concern. Get the lawyers involved. They love this sort of crap because they know who really knows best: the people who are making the bad-for-you food no doubt have all sorts of probative studies locked away in each CEO's safe.

When enough evidence against the foods that are making people unhealthy is amassed, the federal government will have jurisdiction to--and indeed may have no other choice but to--restrict the advertising of those products over our publicly owned airwaves.

The marketing goons will gnash their teeth about it and put up an expert fight at first, but they can sell cowshit to a cattle ranch and the smart ones will figure out that the same sensational commercials they have now can also pimp the high folic acid content of the ultra-healthy organic pesticide free bird feed you guys want us all to be eating--or whatever it is. And as suddenly as that happens, public perception will change.

You'll forgive me for my indifference to the matter. I expect to be insane from mad cow disease long before you folks succeed. But I concede it's a lofty and humanitarian goal.

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Contrite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
37. So much for small government and personal responsibility!
What now? Everyone eats rice portions like in Korea?

Sorry, I don't need government regulations to keep me from getting fat. It's called will power, self control, exercise and proper eating habits. People are just looking for the "magic bullet" to being slim. There ain't one.
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UncleSepp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-04-07 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #37
119. Add to that list 'good luck and good genetics'
It's not always that simple. I'm happy that it works for you, and happy that it works for me. It doesn't work for everyone, though. Not everybody - and not every body - is the same.
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HockeyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
38. Leave me ALONE
If I want to eat trans fats, cookies, Big Macs, fries, etc., I WILL. I don't want them to be penalty taxed, taken off the market, replaced with cardboard substitutes, etc.

I am 58 years old (able to decide myself), 5'2". 102 lbs, and a size 1. Obviously, living for a over half a century I know what works for ME based on my own body and family genetics.

Go away, Big Brother. One "Size" does not fit ALL.

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FlaGranny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-31-06 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #38
50. Okay, but
really, a Big Mac IS a cardboard substitute. No comparison to a real hamburger, hand formed, and on a nice fresh crusty kaiser roll, with a slice of fresh onion and some catsup.

The foods you get when you buy normal supermarket fare are the actual cardboard substitutes of the original foods. Foods that are easily available in the supermarket contain ingredients you could never have found in your mother's kitchen.

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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
41. Here comes the health nazi programs..
From a hypocrite nation of corporations that refuses to hold the companies responsible for making products that addict, that are unhealthy chemical laden crap.A country that will not make real food affordable for poor folks and alot of poor people are fat there IS a correlation.

I hate this country sometimes because the people are quick to blame the victims, quick to tell everyone else that their WAY is how it has to be for everyone as if we are all fat for the SAME reasons. America has too many"beautiful people" who don't know SHIT about life outside what they know,arrogant, shallow, self righteous, meddling,narrow minded, egotistical,hypocritical, corporate worshiping idiots that cannot deal with a complex reality of a complex problem,sometimes.I'm sick of the fat bashers and the ignorant diet advocates yelling "lookit meeeee!! I am so much better than all the fatties because I lost weight(applause" as if having a large butt was somehow much worse than being a mean, arrogant, meddling, ignorant,vain, bitter person.And I am sick of all the corporate worshipers and blame the fat person first always..types.
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Contrite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-31-06 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #41
51. There are affordable alternatives
Like rice and beans, for example. Or soy. Not all healthy food choices are expensive. But people should still have the right to choose what to eat. As long as they know what they are getting, and the consequences of what they choose.
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-31-06 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #51
52. and the corporates
Can LIE about what the label says,so we will NEVER know what we are eating.Organic label means NOTHING now.
http://www.downbound.com/Free_Range_s/456.htm
http://www.pmac.net/nospdf.htm
Shit, even food labels can get away with deceptive information
http://www.foodnavigator-usa.com/news/ng.asp?n=69519-fo...
http://www.liverdoctor.com/05_toxins.asp
The world is contaminated.The greedheads food industry hell all of industry has sickened this planet.
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Contrite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-31-06 02:52 AM
Response to Reply #52
56. Yes they do lie.
And that is a problem to be sure.
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-31-06 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #51
53. I can't digest soy or beans
If I eat too much soy I will get mad cramps and my intestines gurgle and seem to twist and it leaves my body out the other end undigested as do beans in about 15 minutes after I eat them. I am lactose intolerant too. Some people like me cannot go 'vegetarian" because of food allergies or other things.It sucks because I am poor. I eat what I can get. I eat alot of frozen veggies or canned when I can get it, Sometimes there is a ten for ten bucks sale ten bags of frozen veggies.I eat whatever is cheap and half decent, I do BLT's sometimes . I get what won't set my bowels into a fit. I drink water with a bit of juice in it. Or tea, no sugar.I get fruit when I can.
Some days I just eat a couple of cans of veggies and a banana and some toast later. Sometimes I eat some canned tuna.I don't have alot of food left by time the end of the month gets close.
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Contrite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-31-06 02:54 AM
Response to Reply #53
57. Have you spoken to a nutritionist
Edited on Sun Dec-31-06 02:59 AM by Contrite
or a dietitian to see what might be more palatable for you? I know you say that you are poor but do you have access to any sort of community health services?

Alternatively, have you researched the web for sites like the one below which offer nutritional analysis of fast food menus?

http://www.helpguide.org/life/fast_food_nutrition.htm#g...
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rebel with a cause Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-31-06 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #51
59. Pleeeeaaaaase...........
(white) Rice and root vegetables are starchy and contribute to weight gain when eaten as a main food. Thin people who eat rice as a daily component of their diet, say like in the Latino and Asian cultures, do so with a balance of food and not as the main part of their diet. And the soy products are not the answer because many of them are mass produced and have additives just as other convenience foods. I know vegetarians that have weight problems.

Should people have free choice of what they eat? Of course, but then to have free choice would mean that you should be able to afford all the food that is offered. If I go to the store and have to pay $2 for a lb of tomatoes, apples, or 2 oranges for a dollar and I have under ten dollars a day to feed four people then my choices have been limited. People who work for minimum wage have had their free choice taken away from them. (by the way, one medium size tomato is often close to a lb)
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Contrite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-31-06 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #59
67. Depends on how you eat the rice, what you pair it with
Edited on Sun Dec-31-06 04:43 PM by Contrite
And, while I agree that fruit and veggies can be expensive, you can shop specials on both. A bigger problem, to me, is that people don't understand how to do this--eat well and on less $$. Also, there are co-ops you can join and reduce your costs by either going on a plan with others that allows you to share the produce to cut costs and also to work a few hours at the co-op.

From the article linked in the OP:

One problem is misinformation about weight loss. "Most individuals that present for nutrition counseling have significant amounts of misinformation about food and beverages that prevent them from being successful in weight loss or weight management," Kolasa said.

"Also, people continue to say that it costs more money to eat healthy, when it has been demonstrated time and again you can eat healthy at no greater cost," Kolasa added.
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rebel with a cause Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-31-06 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #67
69. again it depends
on where you live, how you live and so on. What is right for one is not right for all. It is too easy to solve problems when you don't have them. that is the point I am trying to make. :banghead:

Oh well, let them eat cake. :sarcasm:
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Contrite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-31-06 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #69
70. I was poor once
Edited on Sun Dec-31-06 06:25 PM by Contrite
and I (and my son and one live-in friend) survived on food shelf donations and a lot of things that we would otherwise not have eaten so I do know what it is like.

I don't think this report specifically addresses obesity as it relates to poverty, however. It assumes that people are just "eating incorrectly" in the main and doesn't go a lot further other than saying that people need more information about nutrition and healthier choices. I am not arguing that the fast food establishments don't offer up a lot of unhealthy choices and that, unfortunately, they are the cheapest route for a lot of economically challenged people.
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antiimperialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
48. Funny
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-31-06 02:34 AM
Response to Original message
55. Works for me.They can start by removing soda machines from schools & by providing nutritious lunches
They can then remove high fructose corn syrup from every processed food item except Karo Syrup.

I'm not holding my breath, but just doing those three things would go a long, long way toward stemming the epidemic of obesity, heart disease, and diabetes among both children and adults.

Hekate

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Manifestor_of_Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-31-06 02:55 AM
Response to Original message
58. oh how are they gonna fix MY PROBLEM??
Yes, most people eat unhealthy food and are not educated about good food, and they don't get any exercise. I don't like the "one size fits all" angle, nor do I like the coercive angle. The insurance companies will do anything they can to drop us from coverage.

I have a dead thyroid gland. It died when I was eleven years old, and I have to take Armour Thyroid (dessicated sheep glands from the meat packer) for the rest of my life, or eventually I would go into a coma and die.

Hypothyroid disease is very slow acting, subtle and insidious. A lot of infertile women would have their fertility problems go away if they were on thyroid extract.


Most doctors don't like Armour because it's cheap and they have been brainwashed by the drug companies into prescribing the artificial stuff. I also take twice the normal dose. I once took four times the normal dose, when I was trying to figure out how much I should take per day, because my doctor was supervising me. I gradually went up, and came back down and stopped at the proper dose for ME.


Most people who took four times the normal dose of thyroid extract would have heart palpitations, high blood pressure, and generallly be a nervous wreck of hyperthyroidism. It would be life threatening. In my case, four times the normal dose felt no better than twice the normal dose.

Some stupid doctor took me off of thyroid for five years, and I almost did go into a coma and die. The doctor that put me back on it said I was about a month away from a myxedema coma.

I have been on a severely calorie restricted diet of 500 calories a day and vitamins and mineral supplements, and lost about 15 pounds, which was not nearly what I needed to lose. And this was under a diet doctor's supervision. And I exercised too. I should have spent the money I spent on the diet doctor, on liposuction instead.

A gastric bypass or stomach stapling wouldn't work either, because my metabolism is very slow. The only way for me to lose the amount of weight I need to lose would be by liposuction. So is the government gonna pay for liposuction for health reasons??? Hell, no, it's considered cosmetic surgery. I don't have any insurance anyway, and we're not gonna have universal health care anytime soon, so the question is academic.


You people who think that if us fat people would just eat healthy and exercise, we'd lose weight, well, everybody doesn't have the same metabolism you do.

And all my life, I heard my mom nag me constantly about not eating enough. She just knew I was gonna blow away. The teachers at school would go down the row in the lunchroom, look at my plate and all the food left on it and shake their heads sadly. I was normal weight as a child.

And then when I got grown and gradually got fatter as I got older, she nagged me about being fat. Talk about a double bind!!!!! :banghead:



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rebel with a cause Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-31-06 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #58
60. wow, you proved my point better than I did.
Edited on Sun Dec-31-06 01:14 PM by rebel with a cause
All over weight people are not over eaters!

And about being normal weight as a child. When I tell people that I have not been fat all my life, they look at me with disbelief. When I show them pictures of me a thin child and teenager, they are shocked. My daughter says I looked like a war orphan, my thinness is so profound as a teen. They are equally shocked by my photos as a young adult where I am still in a normal size range. Every year the weight gain increased as the effects of my "problem" (as they called it back then, not even a disease) increased.

I am sixty years old and it has taken me that long to get to the point I am with a steady level of weight gain that seemed unstoppable. Almost two years ago, my "problem" was finally given a name and I was started on medications in an attempt to stop its effects. Forty years too late, but I have survived this last year in which I twice came very close to death. In all, I have lost around sixty lbs, but have to fight constantly to keep it off. Even with the medication, if I go off my diet of tasteless food, I am taking the risk of regaining the fluid weight.

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Missy Vixen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #58
95. Thank you, Perragrande
I, too, have a dead thyroid. I wasn't finally diagnosed until 1995. The normal thyroid function in the human body should be anywhere from 0.00 to 5.00 on lab values. Mine was 75. I begged my doctor to do a blood test for years. The minute the results came back, I was in her office for Synthroid, which was FINALLY put through clinical trials less than five years ago and prescribed for those with hypothyroidism for years prior. I was taking Armour till my doctor refused to prescribe it two years ago. He says there is now evidence it causes systemic heart problems. At the same time, it is the one medication I took that helped me have the energy to exercise.

>The insurance companies will do anything they can to drop us from coverage.<

Absolutely. After all, we don't deserve health coverage with a chronic illness.

As I have said repeatedly every time one of the obesity threads makes its way here, this is not a health issue. This is an appearance issue. We're not what's considered "attractive" in this society. We're not acceptable, so we don't deserve to be treated as human beings, it's okay to publicly mock, humiliate and belittle, and it's acceptable to treat the fat as "less than". After all, if those lazy slobs would just put down their forks...

End of story.

Julie
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Manifestor_of_Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #95
105. you need to find a doctor who prescribes Armour Thyroid
Doctors are brainwashed by the drug companies that make Synthroid and Cytomel.
Armour Thyroid is cheap (it's a byproduct from the slaughterhouse, can't make money on that) and it's far more bioactive.

The folks who make Synthroid were sued some years ago. They had run clinical trials that said that Synthroid was BETTER than Armour. They were forced to retract that statement, because they had lied. Armour has both T3 and T4 in it, and Synthroid doesn't. I don't quite understand it, but both of those are necessary for full thyroid function. TSh is what your pituitary produces to kick start your thyroid. If your TSH is too high, then your thyroid is probably dead.

One out of five Americans is said to have a low thyroid problem, and Synthroid is now the most prescribed medication, I have read.

If your doctor says Armour is "old fashioned", tell him it's more bioactive and has BOTH T3 and T4 in it. I had a prominent endocrinologist tell me that Armour thyroid was not even in the dosage, that it varied as to how much active ingredient it had in it. I told him, "Well, the label says 'United States Pharmacopoeia, Biologically Assayed'. That means it's been analysed for standardization." The guy shut up when I said that, and I'm no M.D.

I have the most common form of low thyroid, Hashimoto's thyroiditis (itis means inflammation). Some bacterium came along and killed my thyroid and I didn't even know it. It's common in pre-teen and teenage girls, and middle aged women. Some men get it too. It's an autoimmune disease.

Couple of good websites: www.stopthethyroidmadness.com (by a woman who takes Armour)
and www.thyroid-info.com

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Missy Vixen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #105
108. Perragrande, I had a doctor that prescribed Armour
He's now an instructor at Bastyr University in Seattle, and no longer practicing.

The MD I saw when my regular doctor was on vacation last year took me off Armour. I understand his reasoning. I'm not happy about it, but I understand it. He said there were several recent studies proving heart damage for those who continued on Armour. After a battery of questions from me ("Who paid for the studies? Who conducted them?") I consented to go back on Synthroid. I knew that they had had to finally undergo clinical trials at last, so at least I knew there would be some degree of stability. The former problem with Synthroid was the lack of stability between batches of the drug. My doctor, I'm happy to say, has been more than happy to answer my exhaustive questions re: T3 and T4. I wouldn't be in her practice anymore if she hadn't been. I liked Armour because I felt better on it, but the biggest benefit is actually getting into the gym. Even if I walk 20 minutes a day, I have more energy, and my symptoms are lessened due to the exercise.

Thank you so much for the tips on the websites. I hope that others at DU that may have hypo or hyperthyroidism will check them out. I read the first edition of Mary Shomon's book. She has been a lifesaver for those of us who battle against hypothyroidism and other immunosuppressive diseases.

Julie
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kutastha Donating Member (400 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-04-07 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #105
121. a few clarifications
Levothyroxine is pretty cheap (between $9-$15 per month depending on dose versus $8-$30 for Armour)

T3 is the much more active form of thyroid hormone.

Levothyroxine is synthetic T4.

The peripheral tissues in your body activate T4 into the more biologically active T3. Armour may be more beneficial for those who cannot convert T4 to T3, the T3/T4 levels are not completely standardized in Armour. Liotrix is a standardized medication that has both T3 and T4, but is more expensive ($18-$33).

Bacteria didn't attack your thyroid. As you mentioned, it's an autoimmune disease
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Nikia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-31-06 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
62. They could ban certain food additives
Like HFCS, msg, foods with more than a trace of transfats just like they ban other possible food additives that are unsafe.
Regular salt, sugar, and more traditional fats would replace them in processed foods. These are less damaging because they do have a more predictable effect on people and people have historically eatne them for a long time. The labling of these ingredients is much more straighforward and they can be part of a healthy diet if not eaten in excess.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-31-06 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
65. Based on my own experience, the most effective public policy for
Edited on Sun Dec-31-06 03:41 PM by Lydia Leftcoast
cutting obesity would be building all new housing developments (and retrofitting as many old ones as possible) so that people could walk to the store, walk to a transit stop to work, and walk for exercise.

Very few Japanese are obese, and contrary to the myths you read in health journals, their diet is not all that low fat. (Tempura? Shogayaki? Tonkatsu? Okonomiyaki?) But they walk. Boy do they walk. They walk to the transit stop, probably stand the whole way, transfer at a subway station in a process that requires climbing some stairs and walking 500 to 1000 meters, ride some more, get off the train, and walk a couple of blocks to work. Then they walk a few blocks and back at lunch. At the end of the work day, they reverse the morning commute.

I lived in Portland for 10 years without a car, and my weight held steady the whole time. I walked to the health club and to church (20 minutes each way for both destinations), and going most other places required a bus or light rail ride with a walk on either end.

In 2003 I moved to Minneapolis, where everything I go to is either within walking distance but too close to provide much exercise or too far to walk in a reasonable amount of time. Without changing my eating habits--indeed, I've cut back--I've gone up one clothing size in three years. I'm now pondering ways to work more exercise into my daily routine, but it's not easy, since my daily routine is already pretty packed with activities.

So my number one suggestion would be to make it easy and safe to walk or cycle to as many places as possible.
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Contrite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-31-06 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #65
71. Weather is a factor too
Even if we want to walk somewhere (I live in St. Paul, near downtown) sometimes it's too hot, too wet or too cold. But I agree, people should take a lesson from Europeans and walk more. I don't know what it's like now, but in the '80s I spent two weeks walking around Paris and lost 18 pounds, while eating rich foods, including pastries and wine. Of course, their portions were rather small (yet satisfying). We don't need the "supersize" menus. That is a horrible thing. People will eat it all even if they are not that hungry.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-31-06 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #71
73. When I lived in Minneapolis before (in the 1980s)
I found that I could walk if the temperature was above -10. Any lower and it hurt to breathe.

As for rain, I lived in Oregon for 19 years and learned about rain jackets, waterproof shoes, and Gore-Tex bags.

If it's too hot, you go walking early in the morning or after dinner (since if it's hot enough to be horrible, the sky will be light till eight or nine.)

But if you're not in the habit, it's easy to find reasons not to go out.

When I go to my bank in downtown Minneapolis, I see people walking the skyways during their lunch hours.
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Contrite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-31-06 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #73
74. Motivation is everything
Edited on Sun Dec-31-06 07:37 PM by Contrite
When I worked downtown I used to walk my lunch hours too; made sure to do an hour each day. Now I am an independent contractor and have a lot of freedom to walk, skate, etc. around the lakes when I want to but find that I only want to do it when the weather is cooperating. One other thing that matters is what you have around you--i.e., here we have the lakes and that is a natural place to seek exercise. I always think that if I lived in the mountains I'd be hiking or snowboarding constantly but since I only go there on vacations I may take it more for granted if I lived there.

On edit: I think that motivation applies to the eating habits too. It's just too easy to pick up some fast food rather than going to the store and preparing it yourself. In this country, "fast and cheap" rules.
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Contrite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-31-06 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #74
75. Forgot to add
("fast, cheap") and easy.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-31-06 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #75
76. By the way, Contrite, how about checking in on the Minnesota Forum
to learn about our January 13 Meetup?
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Contrite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-31-06 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #76
77. Thanks, I will n/t
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Manifestor_of_Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #71
83. six months out of the year it's too hot and humid in Texas
To walk anyplace.

We have a horrible bus system and waiting for the bus can be hazardous to your health. You could get heat stroke or heat exhaustion. The humidity is awful. You go outside for ten minutes to do yardwork and come in and collapse. Me, I start wheezing and wanting to throw up, coughing furiously.

Once in Fresno in the summer, I got on a bus and went someplace so I would not inconvenience my hosts (they had cars, but wouldn't take me anywhere, let alone let me drive them).

I came home from the bus ride with heat exhaustion. I went in the bathroom and barfed up snot for a couple of hours and had a pounding headache. And thsi was in a DRY climate. This family got so unpleasant with their yelling (at me and at each other) that i had to move to a motel and do embroidery for several days until my plane was scheduled to leave. I was watching CNN and Hurricane Alicia was ripping up Houston!

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Telly Savalas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #65
79. Not to mention the effect such a policy would have to reduce
oil consumption and vehicle emissions. It is completely ridiculous that sprawl is still the dominant form of new development. Moreover, it's appalling that the leadership of the Democratic Party is silent on this issue.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 03:15 AM
Response to Reply #65
81. Portland has an amazing public transportation system
my town, Orlando, has one of the highest pedestrian death rates in the country. Our public transportation system is a complete embarrassment. Instead of investing in light rail (which the public has been screaming for for 15+ years now) Gov. Jebbie just widens more roads-which just widens more waistlines. With our good weather most Floridians would love to bike or walk to the market, school, etc.-but we have hardly any sidewalks, let alone bike paths.Only the wealthy living in towns like Celebration and Baldwin Park have the luxury of traveling safely without a motor vehicle.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #81
82. Yes, what I miss most about Portland is its transit system
:cry:

The Twin Cities has one (count 'em, one) light rail line, which took forever to get built, and even though it's wildly successful, they're still dithering about whether to build a line between downtown Minneapolis and downtown St. Paul, and the other pieces of the transportation picture that they're putting together don't necessarily fit in with the rest.
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BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 08:50 PM
Response to Original message
90. Most Americans are lazy, ignorant fascists, too. nt
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Egnever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
92. Yea well there was a point when most americans knew....
Saddam ordered the attacks on 9-11. Most americans can not be relied upon to decide anything. They are too easily swayed by whatever propaganda the media feeds them.
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AnnieBW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
94. I'm Obese and I resent this!
My fat isn't hurting anyone but me, and possibly my husband. (And yes, I'm constantly dieting) I know thin people that have a lot more health problems than I do, so that's not the issue. Fat-bashing is the last acceptable prejudice. Now I know how smokers feel.
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rebel with a cause Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #94
103. I don't like to be around smokers, it causes me health problems
and second hand smoke has been shown to cause harm to others. But with that said, I have thought for a while now that they went after the smokers first and then the obese, and I can only suspect who will be next. Of course gays and other groups have been attacked, but they wisely united and formed protection groups that allow them to fight back.

Not trying to tell you what to do, because I do not know your particular problem, but dieting may not be the answer for you. Some of us more evolved human beings have the problem that if we do not eat enough, our bodies store up fat. Instead of eating less, it is suggested that we actually eat more. Instead of three meals a day, I am suppose to eat at least six small meals. I personally don't do it, but I do now keep (when I can afford it) fruit and low calorie snacks to have every few hours. This supposedly tells my brain that I have plenty of food and it doesn't need to store the fat up. It does help me some.

Researchers should do a study on obese people in this situation, because if times were hard I could outlast a lot of skinny people because my brain is ready for the famine. :7
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #94
109. But many people are suffering greatly because of their weight, and many are children.
Even if your obesity never does you any real harm, certainly we have plenty of evidence that over a larger population even moderate overweight has dramatic health consequences and drives up health care costs. As the nation gets fatter, more and more children have type 2 (they used to call it adult onset before toddlers and grade school kids were getting it) diabetes and circulatory problems.

Working to improve the health of others through public policy is not intended to insult you, and it's not prejudice any more than requiring cars to get smog tested is a slight toward people with asthma.
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MissMillie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
96. Certainly there should be treatment for food addiction
As there is for alcohol and drug addiction, and even gambling.

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FlaGranny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #96
97. MissMillie
Edited on Tue Jan-02-07 12:57 PM by FlaGranny
Food addiction is a whole other story. You have to expose yourself to food every single day and partake of it. Tobacco, alcohol, and gambling are much easier to handle. You can just stay away from them. No one on the planet can avoid food for long. I have my doubts (personal only) that food is an addiction. You don't have to be poor and starving to feel great hunger. You can have just eaten a large meal 2 hours previously and become hungry. Hunger is a very hard thing to ignore. It is more like having to take a pee and trying to avoid doing so. You get more and more uncomfortable until you have to give in. I'm not certain, but I think that some people who remain forever thin, do not get this "primal urge" to eat.

What causes this for most people, I believe, is the kinds of foods consumed during the meal. Your brain has to get the signal that you've had enough calories, but never gets the signal when the food eaten is turned immediately into glucose and then causes the insulin backlash. This is why I believe that young school children from kindergarten on up through college age should get a thorough education in nutrition, digestion, blood glucose, etc., etc.

We are never going to change the food industry. They want to make as large a profit as possible and they do that by using the most inexpensive ingredients they can get away with and trying to get everyone to eat MORE. We hopefully will not have to go back to the old days of finding our own more natural and more scarce food supply, so everyone needs to have the information on how to manage their daily diets and weight.

In no way do I think there should be legislation about what foods we can eat or what ingredients they should have, but we need legislation to make available to everyone everything they need to know (a campaign and classes) about maintaining a healthy lifestyle (including 100% accurate package and food labeling) - and we need this whether the food industry likes it or not. Sadly, many people just do not know. I have to include myself in that, too, because only over the last several years have I learned about the glycemic value of foods and how it works. No physician ever tried explaining this to me. Long hours of research on the "internets" was my teacher.
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #97
98. glycemic value of foods
my husband's and his mom's doctors were both too impatient to explain about why blood sugar is tested, how to do it, or what to do w. the information

his mom is already full-blown diabetic on medication, she gets the test strips from from medicare but was told by the doc "don't worry about that"

we're on our own

:-(

it turns out that people are quite variable in how their blood sugar responds to diet, my husband can't even eat brown sugar w.out spiking the meter

it is most frustrating, because i don't think most people can afford to pay for the test strips ($1 each!) every time they eat until they figure out what is going wrong and what foods are hurting them

it has been a huge burden on us financially although as a result my husband has indeed lost a lot of weight and greatly lowered his blood pressure, improved his blood sugar readings, and so on

i don't see how a poor person could do this, it is a struggle for us as barely hanging on middle class
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FlaGranny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #98
112. I was pre-diabetic
and started the low glycemic diet. It has greatly improved my cholesterol (now very good) and my blood sugar is coming down to nearly normal. My Alc is now in the high normal range. I'll see if the blood glucose gets back to normal range next month when I go back to the doctor. Have you researched the glycemic index of the different foods? It really will open your eyes - foods that we always thought were good for you are actually very harmful to your insulin levels. Other things we always thought were bad are not so bad after all. The truth is, it is not that expensive because once you get your body accustomed to eating the right way, you're really not as hungry and portion control gets a lot easier and, believe me, portion control is extremely important.
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MissMillie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #97
100. FlaGranny
I don't believe that because something is harder to treat that we shouldn't try to treat it.

I also don't believe that just because you can't quit food cold-turkey that means that food addiction doesn't exist.

I'm not interested in laws to change the food industry.

And I know you're right about foods that send your glycemic index into the stratusphere. Somehow when the food pyramid gets taught in school, the kids think that "whole grains" includes Wonderbread and white pasta.

I am interested in people who have eating disorders being able to get treatment for those disorders. Now, there seems to be plenty of treatment for disorders that cause people to become too thin (anorexia, bulimia...) but for compulsive eating and food addiction, there seems to be little to none.
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FlaGranny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #100
111. Well, certainly
if food is an addiction, it has to be the most difficult addiction to treat. I agree that there needs to be treatment for compulsive eating and I do believe that eating disorders exist. Many, if not most heavy people, though, don't have actual eating disorders, they have just spiraled out of control by eating the wrong foods. Those are the folks I'm referring to. I'm one of them. Always hungry, although I thought I was eating good food and had minimal to no sugary stuff or deserts. Then I discovered the glycemic index. It took effort to learn, effort to change, and once change was accomplished, my weight is dropping steadily with absolutely no hunger and very little effort. It took only a few weeks to adjust and now it is absolutely the easiest method I've ever used to lose weight. Once learned, only patience is needed. Who knew that a baked potato is worse than eating a danish pastry, a candy bar, or a doughnut (all 4 of which are to be avoided at all costs)? :-D
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rebel with a cause Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #97
104. I agree with much of what you say expect for one part.
"I think that some people who remain forever thin, do not get this "primal urge" to eat."

Although much of my weight problem is caused by a health problem or two, it is also a fact that I inherited my mother's (and her family's) tendency to gain weight easily. My one sister on the other hand inherited my father's thinness. She use to tell me that if we just traded the foods we ate, then she could gain weight and I could lose. I stayed at her house one afternoon and watched her eat (I wasn't hungry) and I swear that if I had eaten like she did, and what she did, I would have been twice the size I was. She still eats like that at seventy and she is still thin. She also made fun of fat people, but she has children that have the same problem that I do and she is not laughing any more.

My ex-husband was also very thin. My neighbor, and best friend at the time, use to swear that what my husband ate somehow went to my stomach because he remained thin and I seemed to always be gaining. He ate humongous amounts of food, while I barely ate. I also exercised and walked about five miles a day. There is just a difference in the way most naturally thin people and prone to be (wouldn't want to upset people by saying it might be natural for some) fat people's bodies digest food, stores fat, and just plain functions. My heart beat was always very slow, my ex-husbands and my sisters were fast. My movements slow, theirs fast. etc
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FlaGranny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #104
110. Yes, there is the fact that some
people seem to be able to eat anything and not gain. Others can eat minimal amounts and not be able to stay thin. Although I don't claim that there aren't some people who can eat anything and stay thin, I wasn't including metabolism in my very wordy (for me, at least :-) ) post. Mostly just talking about the majority of us. I used to work with a skinny girl like that. She ate huge amounts of food, twice as much as I did. Bad stuff too. I guess her metabolism just burned it off. I've always wondered if it ever caught up with her. I believe though that these are extreme cases.
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Manifestor_of_Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
106. one policy to prevent obesity is one they will never pass legislation for
And that's what I need to lose enough weight....government-paid liposuction.

Ice skates in hell first!!!

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rebel with a cause Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #106
107. That and skin reduction for when we loose!
Have lost almost sixty lbs in the last year and need a fat pocket taken out and the extra skin removed. Oh well, I personally probably couldn't have the operation anyway. But someone else sure could, and it would make their life much more comfortable and their appearance more pleasing for those posting here about us "fat slobs". Ok, flame me. I'm ready.
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politicat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 12:06 AM
Response to Original message
113. Not real public policy, though... like public transit, walkable cities,
greenbelting, mixed use zoning, and all the other public policies that actually do contribute to the health and well being of a society as well as the individuals. Those, after all, either cost money or put people on the other side of a wall, or make us look at something other than those land barnacles of suburbia, or put us in NIMBY situations.

And not real food quality public policy, like regulating what animals can be fed, regulating how they are treated, how feed lots are run, and how they're slaughtered. They don't want to end corn subsidies, even though doing so would be in the nation's best nutritional interest (and in the farmers' best interest, at least in the long run, because the subsidized corn/soy farming we do now is slowly bleeding the farmer to death) and economic interest. Because that would cost money.

But giving the feds more power to deny us everything? Suuuuure....
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noonwitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
115. I don't want the government telling companies to use lower-fat/calorie alternatives
It should be voluntary on the part of the restaurants/producers, and due to a market demand for such changes. We are responsible for the choices we make, and most of us know that eating fast food too often is bad for us.

I do miss Wendy's salad bar, though. I hate pre-packaged salads from fast food restaurants, and their bar (not the whole food bar thing they had going later, just the salad bar)always had fresh veggies and was a healthy alternative to burgers. It probably wasn't cost-effective or something.
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melody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
116. Of course, everyone wants to find someone to look down on
Many thin people assume superiority over obese people. It's just Alpha primate politics. And if and when we ever all weighed the same, they would then go after people whose hair wasn't to their liking. We'd hear all kinds of things about how red hair "hurts the eyes" and how it should be colored to appear brown.

Same old, same old. Then again, the last time I spoke to this issue on DU, I was practically crucified, so I think I'll leave it at that. lol
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antiimperialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-04-07 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
118. Why ban trans-fats and not alcohol?
Alcohol is proven to be harmful to many organs and shortens lifespan.
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UncleSepp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-04-07 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #118
120. It's also been proven to reduce heart attack and stroke risk
A small amount, daily, has been proven to be good for you. Bizarre, huh?
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