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Township75 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 06:35 AM
Original message
Vatican wants Saddam spared death penalty
ROME/AMMAN: A top Vatican official condemned the death sentence against Saddam Hussein on Thursday, acknowledging the crimes of the ousted Iraqi leader but reiterating that capital punishment goes against the teachings of the Church, even as Saddam's lawyer urged that he shouldn't be handed over to Iraqis.

Cardinal Renato Martino, Pope Benedict XVI's top prelate for justice issues and a former Vatican envoy to the United Nations, said that Saddam's execution would punish "a crime with another crime"and expressed hope that the sentence would not be carried out.

In an interview with Rome daily La Repubblica, Martino reiterated the Vatican's staunch opposition to the death penalty, saying that life must be safeguarded from its beginning to its "natural" end.

"The death penalty is not a natural death. And no one can give death, not even the State,"he said.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/NEWS/World/Rest_of_W...
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demnan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 07:17 AM
Response to Original message
1. You got to give them credit
at least the Vatican is consistent.
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Yeah, they are consistent...
And when it comes to the death penalty I'm in total agreement with them, which is something I can't say often about the church...
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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 07:22 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. I agree with all your points. n/t
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Barrett808 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
28. Word. n/t
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 07:20 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Unlike
many in the right to life movement, who only want to protect the life of the unborn.

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shain from kane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 08:37 AM
Response to Original message
5. There's always the chance, however slim, that he will convert to Catholicism and leave his
hidden billions to the church. It's all about the money.
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LetsGoMurphys Donating Member (564 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 03:25 AM
Response to Reply #5
37. stop the catholic hate
Edited on Sat Dec-30-06 03:25 AM by LetsGoMurphys
you tolerant liberal
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HannibalBarca Donating Member (269 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 08:43 AM
Response to Original message
6. How about they make
him have sex without a condom with someone who has aids. They seem incapable of understanding their own hypocrisy, either that or they relish in it.
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LaBanty Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
7. for every decent thing he supports
Edited on Fri Dec-29-06 09:12 AM by LaBanty
He supports a hundred stupid ones.

If Charles Manson had nice table manners, it still doesn't mean I'd invite the prick over for dinner. I don't get excited when someone says or does one thing sane, when I despise what they stand for. That goes double for popes. And Rush Limbaugh. Or anyone else, for that matter. Klukkers may hate child molestors, but that doesn't mean I'd quote the bastards, let alone align myself with them.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #7
27. Every human life has value ...
Edited on Fri Dec-29-06 08:24 PM by ShortnFiery
Those who hold TRUE to Catholic Values interpret PRO-LIFE to include standing against the Death Penalty. In other words, they walk the walk ---> 100% Pro-life beliefs = no abortion, no euthanasia and no forms (even State Sponsored) execution.

Yes, I have great admiration for the Jesuits and Franciscans because they are truly consistent.
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LetsGoMurphys Donating Member (564 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 03:28 AM
Response to Reply #27
38. Everyone should take a long hard look at the
Jesuits, they are truly remarkable people.
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juajen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
8. Gosh,by golly
I agree with the Catholic Church. His execution diminishes me.
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VegasWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
9. In ancient times, what the Vatican wanted was considered important. nt
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
10. It's called having a principle
If you say you're anti-death penalty, but since it's a monster like Saddam Hussein, maybe it's okay. Then you're really not anti-death penalty. If you say you're anti-death penalty even for a monster like Saddam Hussein, it doesn't mean you don't want him punished for his crimes, just that you're anti-death penalty.

This is something that confuses a lot of kooks on the know-nothing right, and sadly some otherwise canny folks with whom I am in agreement much of the time.
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Little Star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
11. What about Falwell and the rest of those
mega church preachers? Their silence is deafning.......
Nice example they set for the sheep. They could at least fake some of that compassion they espouse.
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. They are the ones who say they are "pro-life"
But cheer on executions & support illegal invasions.
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LetsGoMurphys Donating Member (564 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 03:29 AM
Response to Reply #11
39. they dont even pretend w/ the death penalty n/t
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ckramer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
13. VATICAN: SADDAM'S DEATH SENTENCE A CRIME SAYS CARDINAL
Sentencing ousted Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein to death is a crime for the Catholic Church says Cardinal Renato Martino, president of the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace, which has always condemned the death penalty. In an interview to Rome daily La Repubblica published on Thursday Martino said: "I hope a crime will not be compensated with another crime. The Church says that human life must be protected from conception until a natural death. The death penalty isn't a natural death. Nobody can give death, not even the state."

"There's still a period of 30 days (before the death sentence must be carried out), the president's signature is required, things can happen," the cardinal also told the paper.

Italian premier Romano Prodi has also condemned the decision to impose the death penalty.

In the interview to Repubblica, Martino criticised the US for showing pictures of soldiers checking Saddam's teeth "like a cow" immediately after he was captured in December 2003.

http://www.adnki.com/index_2Level_English.php?cat=Relig...
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Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. JPII also told Bush
"If you go to Iraq you go without God."
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judaspriestess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. good one
and very very true!!

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LetsGoMurphys Donating Member (564 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 03:31 AM
Response to Reply #14
40. Wow was he right
I miss JPII.
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. well let the vatican take the leadership in this
i don't think americans need to be telling the iraqi people whether or not they can execute saddam, when we still have executions in this country

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Benhurst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. It's not "the Iraqi people" executing Saddam. It's their Quisling government
doing it under orders from the occupying army which illegally invaded their country.

A kangaroo court empowered under an occupying force is a farce. At the very least, Saddam should have been tried by the International Court of Justice; but then the dirty secrets of the Bush Crime Family would have been exposed.
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. "...which has always condemned the death penalty."
I guess they forgot to tell the Inquisition.

Vatican also says that birth control is a crime.
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pennylane100 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Pedophelia is also a crime
but that never seemed to be a big concern for the catholic church.
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LetsGoMurphys Donating Member (564 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 03:32 AM
Response to Reply #17
41. mind ur business limey n/t
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. I agree with them on this. Bush has killed just as many Iraqis
so I ask. Who is he to escape the same fate?

Yes I'm against the death penality even for Bush.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. I agree with the Vatican the Death Penalty is not
the answer
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high density Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #13
22. ABORTION AND GAY MARRIAGE!!!
Remember what's important! Who cares about wars and poverty??!!
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ckramer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #13
23. This whole sheband proves Shiites are not fit for governing
All they think about is revenge.

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superconnected Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #13
24. it happens in 1 hour.
Edited on Fri Dec-29-06 08:07 PM by superconnected
gee, americas acceptance of public executions begins.

In american prisons they have never been televised hence they haven't been public.

George must be proud.
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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Great timing... Happy f-ing new year...
Do you see he will be hung with 2 other "lesser" criminals? It this Jesus Christ parallel intentional?
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superconnected Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Wow, no I didn't see that.
Thanks for pointing it out.

Yep, Happy new year... Americas desensitation to public executions is about to begin.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. Yes, and ole' King George will have made Saddam Hussein "a martyr"
The entire trial was a circus of USA consultants and installed Iraqi crones. :(

Bush 41 must rue the fact that Junior (43) has a penchant for having the Reverse Midas Touch: Everything he has his grubby fingers in turns out to be disastrous!

The last things you want him controlling are large corporations or an entire NATION. The man is a walking disaster and everything he touches turns to DUST! :cry:

Oh, may the Good Lord give those of us who are Christians the courage to persevere until the Presidential Elections of 2008? :shrug:
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2Design Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. interesting parallel - like the joshua books - the religious are blind n/t
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crickets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 02:21 AM
Response to Reply #25
34. I caught that too.
Made me wonder. I don't put anything past them anymore.
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arewenotdemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
30. Fuck the Pope
Edited on Fri Dec-29-06 08:43 PM by arewenotdemo
He played a crucial role in helping the Cheerleader win in 2004.

If it was left to the Vatican it would still be God's Enforcer, executing the heathens and infidels.
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timber84 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. wrong pope
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. True, also the American Bishops tend to re-interpret the edicts of
The Vatican to fit their kool-aid drinking need for vengeance.

I'm not an historian but believe that "The Vatican" proper has been anti-execution for a long time.
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arewenotdemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 02:51 AM
Response to Reply #32
36. both were guilty of tampering
April 21, 2005 | President Bush treated his final visit with Pope John Paul II in Vatican City on June 4, 2004, as a campaign stop. After enduring a public rebuke from the pope about the Iraq war, Bush lobbied Vatican officials to help him win the election. "Not all the American bishops are with me," he complained, according to the National Catholic Reporter. He pleaded with the Vatican to pressure the bishops to step up their activism against abortion and gay marriage in the states during the campaign season.

About a week later, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger sent a letter to the U.S. bishops, pronouncing that those Catholics who were pro-choice on abortion were committing a "grave sin" and must be denied Communion. He pointedly mentioned "the case of a Catholic politician consistently campaigning and voting for permissive abortion and euthanasia laws" -- an obvious reference to John Kerry, the Democratic candidate and a Roman Catholic. If such a Catholic politician sought Communion, Ratzinger wrote, priests must be ordered to "refuse to distribute it." Any Catholic who voted for this "Catholic politician," he continued, "would be guilty of formal cooperation in evil and so unworthy to present himself for Holy Communion." During the closing weeks of the campaign, a pastoral letter was read from pulpits in Catholic churches repeating the ominous suggestion of excommunication. Voting for the Democrat was nothing less than consorting with the forces of Satan, collaboration with "evil."

http://dir.salon.com/story/opinion/blumenthal/2005/04/2...
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LetsGoMurphys Donating Member (564 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 03:34 AM
Response to Reply #30
42. what proof do you have?
nothing. Two words, Ian Paisley. That's Bush's boy. A number 1 enemy of the Catholic Church.
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lumpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 02:30 AM
Response to Original message
35. The Christian god has been on extended holiday
for quite some time now. Maybe he has just given up on his intelligent designing.
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