Che Guevara CD case pulled from shelves (Target)

[deadparrot]

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Target Corp said on Friday it had pulled a CD carrying case bearing Ernesto "Che" Guevara's image after an outcry by critics who label the Marxist revolutionary a murderer and totalitarian symbol.

Target had touted a music disc carrying case for Che admirers emblazoned with the Argentine-born guerrilla's iconic 1960 portrait by Alberto Diaz, or "Korda." A set of small earphones was superimposed on the image, suggesting he was tuned in to an iPod or other music player.

"It is never our intent to offend any of our guests through the merchandise we carry," Target said in a statement. "We have made the decision to remove this item from our shelves and we sincerely apologize for any discomfort this situation may have caused our guests."

Some business columnists had decried the product, sold under Target's brand, saying the trendy discount chain was giving in to a misguided fashion craze while ignoring Guevara's role in bringing Fidel Castro's Communist rule to Cuba.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061222/people_nm/target_guevara_dc

[Vanje]

1. Che is not a murderer. He was a murderee

[otherlander]

4. No, he himself didn't murder people,

but he ordered them killed.

[Judi Lynn]

5. How many revolutions to overthrow bloody monster U.S. puppets

and their death squads can you think of which had no one from the tyrant's side executed?

[w4rma]

8. You must believe in pacifism or at least be anti-war if that is your primary problem with him. (nt)

[otherlander]

9. Not the case.

I didn't write that because it was my biggest problem with him, but because I think that it is inaccurate to say that he wasn't a murderer. At least, if you consider his death murder. Those executed at La Cabana weren't given fair trials any more than he was. My "primary problem" with him would be that he praised Maoism. Do you at least agree that Mao was a brutal dictator?

As for being a pacifist, there was a time when I would have called myself that. Sentencing people to live under the curse of war is an evil thing, but not the evilest thing. Poverty and oppression are worse, and if there has to be fighting to change them, then there has to be. My problem's not with the revolution, but with what came after it.

[Judi Lynn]

11. If your primary problem with Che Guevara was your claim he praised Mao,

why did you represent your primary problem with him as being he ordered the execution of death squad members and other henchmen who worked for the bloody monster/torturer/filthy scum Batista?

The standard of living for the vast majority of Cubans who lived in apalling poverty prior to the revolution, and I am not speaking of the ruling class which followed the plantation slave owners, the vast majority of people who were ill employed, most of them only finding seasonal work following the growing of sugar cane, tobacco, bananas, etc., living WITHOUT electricity, plumbing, etc., etc., WITHOUT EDUCATION, WITHOUT MEDICAL TREATMENT, who were poorly fed, many having internal parasites, THESE PEOPLE have improved steadily, and their longevity, their infant mortality rate, their education standards are the highest in Latin America. PERIOD.

They have been lauded by world organizations, even the World Bank, officially. They live longer, they are HEALTHIER, they are MORE EDUCATED.

Right-wing idiot spew from Miami doesn't begin to match the facts.

[otherlander]

12. I said that in response

to the claim that he wasn't a murderer, which I didn't think was true. Praising Mao doesn't make someone a murderer.

[harun]

66. It isn't murder if you are at war (n/t)

[DuaneBidoux]

28. But Cubans are missing one big thing that many others take for granted:

the right to choose their own government that represents their wishes.

[Judi Lynn]

29. So you know what their wishes are? You probably found that out on one of your

many trips to Cuba, right?

I don't think it's Cuba keeping you outta there.

Maybe you might want to use some of that spare time and start trying to get ahead of the right-wing propaganda that has been serving as information about Cuba among those who won't take the time to do their homework.

[DuaneBidoux]

60. Okay, so I'm wrong. Can you tell me when they last had a free and fair election open to all ...

opposition voices? I'll listen.

[Judi Lynn]

35. I found an interesting post you might want to read, or NOT!

I have visited the island twice. There is no general climate of fear. People do speak freely, criticising their government, but criticising the US government far more. Cubans also participate at much higher levels than Australians in political system.
(snip)

From: Cuba: the propaganda offensive
http://www.greenleft.org.au/2005/619/35177

[DuaneBidoux]

61. Okay so opposition political parties are allowed allowing Cubans who

do not approve of their governments policies to vote on those who would change those policies?

I'm not saying they live in a "climate of fear." I'm saying they do not have the option of electing their own government free and fair to choose the parties they want.

I'm not even saying the election wouldn't turn out with Castro and the communists in power if they had the right to vote in a free and fair election. I'm simply saying there is no democratic voice for opposition political parties. Am I wrong on this very simple to answer question? I'll gladly stand corrected.

[IndianaGreen]

37. How would you describe Florida 2000?

Did that give us a government that represents our wishes, or was that nothing more than a rightwing judicial coup? Or how about Ohio in 2004?

Have you seen the documentary "Hacking Democracy"? It is the Diebold machines, not the voters, that get to decide our elections.

[roody]

59. That is what all my teachers told me!!

[Judi Lynn]

14. I went to look for more on this terrifying La Cabana blood bath, to see

if there was anything written on it NOT written by a right-wing, drooling idiot. I found one interesting source:

In his trenchant short study, Che Guevara, the British historian Andrew Sinclair concludes that, during the guerrilla war, Che 'discovered a cold ruthlessness in his nature. Spilling blood was necessary for the cause. Within two years, he would order the death of several hundred Batista partisans at La Cabana, one of the mass killings of the Cuban Revolution.' Later too, after the botched Bay of Pigs invasion by anti-Communist Cuban exiles, all the survivors were summarily shot....
(snip)

http://hnn.us/roundup/comments/6300.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ah, ha ha ha ha ha ha, helpless chuckle, snort.

Here's more on that deadly summary execution of those Bay of Pigs survivors:

1962: Bay of Pigs prisoners fly to freedom
The last of more than 1,000 men taken prisoner at the Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba has returned to the United States in time for Christmas.
The government agreed to the payment of a ransom of $53 million in food and medical supplies, donated by companies all over the USA, as a condition for their release.

The airlift of the prisoners began yesterday, when the first 107 men boarded a DC6 airliner supplied by Pan American World Airways at a military airbase near Havana.

After just four flights, however, the operation was suspended for the night, to the consternation of the thousands of anxious relatives of the prisoners, keeping vigil in Florida for their return.

Flights resumed early this morning, and by the end of the day all 1,113 prisoners had been safely returned.

Rapturous crowd

A rapturous crowd of 10,000 Cuban exiles greeted each new arrival at the Dinner Key Auditorium, on the outskirts of Miami.
(snip/...)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/december/24/newsid_3295000/3295045.stm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What a lot of hot, smelly air you get from right-wing history re-writers.



There were chaotic scenes as the released prisoners were welcomed home
One prisoner says they were poorly fed and kept in a cell with no daylight

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They are damned lucky they weren't killed like the assholes they were.

Some very worthwhile comments by Phillip Agee, former CIA agent:

~snip~
Warren Hinkle and William Turner, in The Fish is Red, easily the best book on the CIA's war against Cuba during the first 20 years of the revolution, tell the story of the CIA's efforts to save the life of one of their Batista Cubans. It was March 1959, less than three months after the revolutionary movement triumphed. The Deputy Chief of the CIA's main Batista secret police force had been captured, tried and condemned to a firing squad. The Agency had set up the unit in 1956 and called it the Bureau for the Repression of Communist Activities or BRAC for its initials in Spanish. With CIA training, equipment and money it became arguably the worst of Batista's torture and murder organizations, spreading its terror across the whole of the political opposition, not just the communists.

The Deputy Chief of BRAC, one Jose Castano Quevedo, had been trained in the United States and was the BRAC liaison man with the CIA Station in the U.S. Embassy. On learning of his sentence, the Agency Chief of Station sent a journalist collaborator named Andrew St. George to Che Guevara, then in charge of the revolutionary tribunals, to plead for Castano's life. After hearing out St. George for much of a day, Che told him to tell the CIA chief that Castano was going to die, if not because he was an executioner of Batista, then because he was an agent of the CIA. St. George headed from Che's headquarters in the Cabana fortress to the seaside U.S. Embassy on the Malecon to deliver the message. On hearing Che's words the CIA Chief responded solemnly, "This is a declaration of war." Indeed, the CIA lost many more of its Cuban agents during those early days and in the unconventional war years that followed.

Today when I drive out 31st avenue on the way to the airport, just before turning left at the Marianao military hospital, I pass on the left a large, multi-storey white police station that occupies an entire city block. The style looks like 1920's fake castle, resulting in a kind of giant White Castle hamburger joint. High walls surround the building on the side streets, and on top of the walls at the corners are guard posts, now unoccupied, like those overlooking workout yards in prisons. Next door, separated from the castle by 110th street, is a fairly large two-story green house with barred windows and other security protection. I don't know its use today, but before it was the dreaded BRAC Headquarters, one of the CIA's more infamous legacies in Cuba.

The same month as the BRAC Deputy was executed, President Eisenhower, on the 10th of March 1959, presided over a meeting of his National Security Council at which they discussed how to replace the government in Cuba. It was the beginning of a continuous policy of regime change that every administration since Eisenhower has continued.
(snip/...)

http://www.counterpunch.org/agee08092003.html

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. Judy war is ugly

people die.

Commanders order the death of people

Che ordered actions that led to the death of people

He was no saint.

No military commander truly ever is.

And yes, he did good thigns, he did bad things and he did UGLY things. He was no saint.

And that is the ugly truth. We beatify people, just like the other side does, but thinking of Che in the only the good he did and closing your eyes to the ugly side, is not that different than the right praising St Reagan

[Judi Lynn]

23. You're right. I'm a fool. I'm stupid. I "idolize" Che Guevara.

I'd completely discount my posts, if I were you, and not bother reading them. I never do any research, have NO facts, ever, to back myself up.

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. You took it the way you wanted to

I pointed to some facts... real ugly facts

War is ugly...

And yes, he did some stuff that may have been necessary to advance the cause, but all military commanders give orders that over the course of the years they either entrench themselves, or are sorry over.

By the way, I have seen the ugly side of war, and the real underbelly of poverty.

He did believe in what he was doing and the Cuban Revolution has had many successes... that does not mean Che Guevara did not give some questionable orders... but that is the nature of civil war. If this cold civil war we have in this country ever goes hot you may even get what I am saying.

[Judi Lynn]

26. Not too sure how the conversation took the off-ramp into the claim

I'm a Che Guevara killer denier! I've surely read about the executions.

My claim is it's going to be damned hard to find a history of a revolution against a bloodthirsty, filthy tyrant.supported TO THE HILT by certain elements in this government, which would NOT include killings, especially of those demons who drove around in cars, grabbing people off the street, torturing them, sometimes to death, and throwing them out.

Masferrer's Tigers was the name of one of the filthy death squads, operated by Rolando Masferrer, who was a Cuban publisher, a friend of Batista, a Cuban Senator, who fled to Florida, where he was eventually killed in a car bombing, himself.

That Cubans wanted to wipe these idiots off the face of the earth, and do it in a way that didn't permit rehab, is no great surprise to me.

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. I said yuo took it the way you read it

I have not said that you are not aware of what was done...

What I also said is that BOTH sides idolize heroes, and in hero worship certain elements get thrown out the window

It will take a good historian to write a BALANCED history, unfortunately I doubt such a history would be publixhed these days.

[Judi Lynn]

31. It wouldn't be published here, under a Republican President like this one.

His father was very connected with the Cuban "exiles" (Batista supporters) a long time ago, before the Bay of Pigs, as was his brother, _Jeb, as is _{George W. Bush,} who even allows their murderer/terrorists to sit right behind him on the stage when he makes speeches in Miami, not to mention the "exile" bomber/assassins he pardoned right after coming into office who didn't have to serve more than a very few years for the bombing assassination of Chilean diplomat, Orlando Letelier, and his American assistant, Ronni Moffit, and the injury of her husband who was also with them.

They are into "exiles" up to their eyebrows.

The pResident took the unexpected move of banning the publication of any books containing information written by Cuban scholars, scientists, etc. within a year or two after stealing the Presidency. He FORBIDS it.

Absolutely contemptible.

[nadinbrzezinski]

41. I'm a writer and I have had things rejected breaking

time distance records from major sci fi publishers (short fiction) because they deal with issues

I have talked wiht publishers and editors, OFF THE RECORD... and it is not only George and the gang of thieves

I have said it before and I will say it again, Heinlein's works would never see the light of day today, neither would 1984

And in the academic realm, we are seeing something just as scary.

[rman]

47. ...in opposition to oppression and exploitation

of a majority of the people.

Of course the forces that he opposed will do anything to marginalize and discredit such opposition.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

49. kinda like George Washington

but without the slaves.

[brentspeak]

52. Question: Who did George Washington order killed?

Question #2: How many labor camps did George Washington start?

[IndianaGreen]

54. Washington ordered the execution of John Andre during the Revolutionary War.

and neither Che nor Washington ever established labor/concentration camps, but the British did during the Boer War.

[brentspeak]

55. Washington ordered Andre's execution after Andre was found guilty of espionage

Unlike Guevera's many victims, Andre was given a fair trial. The committee who found Andre guilty recommended that he be executed. I don't agree that he should have been executed, and Washington should have granted clemency; but you're talking apples and oranges, in any case.

[Judi Lynn]

57. Speaking of apples and oranges, the British didn't have death squads

and they didn't kidnap and torture Americans off the street, and murder them, throwing their bodies out in public areas to terrorize the population.

If they HAD had these death squads, you can be sure they wouldn't have been long for this world. People just naturally resent death squads.

[Stewie]

62. Are you sure?

There are people who were imprisoned in Cuba who testify they saw him execute people. If you're going to order people killed, there's not much of a leap to doing it yourself.

[Taverner]

18. Meh - he was a revolutionary

He killed many in Cuba, some with just cause others he killed in cold blood.

We haven't had a revolution here in the US for a while so the idea is a litte foreign to us...

[otherlander]

50. In a war,

you kill people because they are a threat to you. People in jails are not threats.

[Taverner]

56. Hence the "killing in cold blood" part

Like I said, he killed many out of necessity, and many in cold blood.

[Freddie Stubbs]

64. Did Hitler ever personally murder anyone?

The fact that they had others carry out murders for them does not absolve them.

[Judi Lynn]

65. Hitler was looking at a completely different landscape. His companions had not been

tortured to death by a previous monstrous regime. He was not dealing with people in his own country who had bombed their own countrymen, tortured, dismembered, and slaughtered them.

Nice try.

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. But, but, but, che is all the rage among the kids

I am not kidding.

When you ask many kids, you know who that is?

Dead look in their eyes

And don't start into the good, the bad and the ugly, they will walk away

Now this is a sad comment though that Target cannot sell this because some so-called critics got in a tizzy. I see this as a wonderful way to TEACH what Guevara did, and I mean the good, the bad and the really ugly

[Oeditpus Rex]

3. A friend of mine's gf has the same look

She wears a Guevara T-shirt and has no idea who he is.

She's in her 40s.

Anyway, I'm sick of political correctness in marketing. These are the reasons to pull this:

"Che would just be rolling in his grave if he knew his face was making money for Target," said Nell Greenberg, spokeswoman for San Francisco-based Global Exchange. "Everyone who does support that legacy of social justice is certainly not going to be opposed to stopping Target from using that tool."

Guevara's image is literally stamped into the capitalist consumer society that he died fighting to overturn. His portrait adorns everything from schoolbags to T-shirts and women's lingerie.

(snip)

Guevara's own family aims to end the industry of Che merchandise, seeking lawsuits against companies they believe exploit his image and undermine his political philosophy.

[Judi Lynn]

6. Even the man who took the famous photograph, Alberto Korda, never took money for it. n/t

[otherlander]

15. ...

Ellos tienen remeras del Che
Y ellos no saben por que!

[Judi Lynn]

16. Would you be good enough to share your comment with those of

us who took Spanish in high school?

"Remeras" is a word I've never seen or heard.

Here is a photo of a Ray, I presume, with several "REMORAS" sticking to his underside. REMORAS.


Who made that remark you quoted, whatever it is, and does he live in Miami?

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. Slang for... a really bad word

and I will leave it at that

[Invalence1]

32. a remera is a type of T shirt

usually called a "rower" in english. Usually imprinted with a picture or slogan.

[Judi Lynn]

34. Thanks! That would be far more comfortable and attractive than a Remora! n/t

[IndianaGreen]

7. Bush is the one that is a murderer and a totalitarian symbol.

Bush is the biggest mass murderer of this young century.

[saigon68]

13. Bush A/K/A the Awol Chimpanzee is the Biggest mass murderer of the 21st

Century

[Judi Lynn]

17. If he only had been able to start with the draft behind him, who KNOWS where he'd be

by now? The sky would be the limit, wouldn't it?

[IndianaGreen]

22. Wait until he starts using bunker buster tactical nukes in Iran

Bush will soon surpass Hitler in the number of dead.

[Judi Lynn]

24. Are you speaking of the same man who competed with the Florida governator

in the execution race?

It's a hideous thought, but I'm certain he'd be MORE than happy to do as much killing as possible.
It will also be a miracle if he is averted before he finds a way to start obliterating large numbers of Latin Americans in the larger countries, too.

We've already seen his handiwork in Haiti.

[IndianaGreen]

27. Millions of people are alive today because Bush's imperial troops

are bogged down in Iraq, unable to do harm elsewhere.

That's some silver lining in a very dark cloud. :-(

[WindRavenX]

10. lol, if they call Che a "murderer" and "totalitarian" symbol...

...best remove everything with the American flag or with the image of any US president.

[Joe Chi Minh]

19. Che Guevara? Or Pinochet? There's surely little doubt that at least 97% of the

world's population would have no difficulty in naming the totalitarian monster.

[Robbien]

33. Can't have shoppers given any ideas of rising up against

the rich elite. Of course Che must come down off the shelves.

[Judi Lynn]

36. Hope you're not saying the ultimate goal in life is NOT to extract every possible

cent of profit from every single item anyone can ever buy, ever, and continue to raise the price until there's no one able to buy it!

That would be blasphemy!

(I just remembered: when that happens, people would start stealing, then you add THEM to the world's largest per capita prison population, and start getting serious about slave labor, to produce items for the very poor who can't afford the wildly overpriced stuff!)

[Robbien]

38. Having a bit of a problem getting lost

in the double negative there.

What I was trying to say is that in our very capitalistic world, the golden rule is nothing should ever be placed in the way of a shopper and potential purchases. Items with Che's revolutionary image may take the shine off the shopping verve.

So in the end, yeah I was putting down shopping and supporting the idea of revolutionary resistance.

[Judi Lynn]

39. I "miscommunicated" myself. I agree with you. Sorry for the ineptitude.

Sometimes posting isn't as easy as I thought.

I've never seen you posting anything yet I believed was inaccurate, or incorrect. I actually was trying to confirm your remarks, not rage against them.

I should have added a " :sarcasm: " to have communicated more clearly.

[Telly Savalas]

45. How can there be anything remotely subversive about a CD carrying case?

A CD carrying case with the trendy image of Che is a product of the capitalist consumerist apparatus, not an instrument of its destruction.

[MasonJar]

40. Who would go to that store? It is infamous for its mistreatment of

its employees. I say boycott the place. The Walmarts of this world are quick to denigrate someone else, but never seem to come to terms with their own limitaions and excesses.

[nadinbrzezinski]

43. It's target, not wally mart

granted, they treat their employees like shit, but not as bad as Wally World.

And they don't close stores when they actually manage to unionize

[arikara]

42. Gee, if that's all it takes...

"It is never our intent to offend any of our guests through the merchandise we carry," Target said in a statement. "We have made the decision to remove this item from our shelves and we sincerely apologize for any discomfort this situation may have caused our guests."

I'm offended by all of the cheap tacky throwaway sweatshop produced crap that they flog in the chain stores only to clog up the landfills a year later. Will they take it all off their shelves enough people complain about it?

And now "guests"? Buyers have done graduated from being labeled "consumers" to "guests". Everyone is starting to use that, my dentist is now calling his patients "guests". It just sounds rather stupid.

[Thickasabrick]

44. I'm cool with Target doing this - but only because I think

Che would have hated his likeness being used to add to Target's capitalistic coffers.

[SoCalifer]

46. What about President Andrew Jackson?

"The removal act"

Will they keep his image from ever being on their shelves too?

:shrug:

[Earth_First]

48. Yet Wal-Mart continues to sell "Covert or Die"

a game which actively encourages users to kill non-christians, atheists, and homosexuals in which "You are sent on a spiritual and military mission to convert people, and nobody is allowed to remain neutral,"

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1221/p14s02-lire.html

I'm so sick and tired of this religious double standard in this country...

Equally as boggling is the Che image being a pop culture image. I've seen this image on countless t-shirts from hip hop to 5th avenue boutiques adorned with rhinestones.

[brentspeak]

51. Che Guevera is burning in hell

Murdering political dissenters, formation of labor camps -- yeah, Che was some "hero", alright. (sarcasm)

[IndianaGreen]

53. There is no Hell and there is no Heaven

but if there was such a thing, Pinochet would be the one burning in it, not Che.

Che remains a global cultural icon, and there is nothing the peddlers of religious poison in America can do about it.

Che is more relevant than Christ!

[Judi Lynn]

58. Why don't you provide some bona fide information on this murder of dissidents?

It would be deeply educational to D.U. to be able to get a good hard squint at that.

Labor camps for dissent? Need to read that information.

[martymar64]

63. You mean, like the labor camp called "Monticello"?

Jefferson held people as PROPERTY. Do you mean forced labor like that? And if they decided to dissent or leave, what would have happened to them?

some hero.