MSNBC Breaking: Tim Johnson (SD-D) Has "Apparent" Stroke. n/t

Update:
1)The Governor would select replacement
2)They don't know how serious it is, they speculate the nervousness surrounding it is merely fear.
3)It's only an "Apparent" stroke right now.

n/t

nt

Am I doing it right?

"Admiral John Eisold, Attending Physician of the United States Capitol released a statement Thursday afternoon saying Thompson "continued to have an uncomplicated post-operative course. Specifically, he has been appropriately responsive to both word and touch. No further surgical intervention has been required."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16199440 /

I thought I was continuing an inside joke with the 'Ha Ha Ha Oh Wow' guy, but I guess it was just an unbeleivably unlikely coincidence. In seriousness, this kind of thing can't be offerred up as evidence for or against God.

what kind of "thing" are you referring to?

I guess this does not qualify as evidence of a just God.

would they have an election or an appointment? I know he is up in '08. Would Daschel be brought back?

Boy oh boy

Second: If he is unable to perform as a Senator, the Governor of SD would appoint a replacement until the next election.

It's hard to complain that this would throw the Senate (which it would), as we gained the same chamber through the appointment of Sen. Carnahan in 2001 (along with the defection of Jeffords).

A GOP app't to a Democratic senate seat would be more evidence of thwarting the people's will

Just out of curiosity, because I remember Jesse Helms and Strom Thurman being wheeled onto the Senate floor drooling and wearing diapers. I always wondered how that determination is made.

Please get better Senator!

Helms and Thurmond were idiots, but were hardly drooling and wearing diapers. States set the rules for determining inability to perform.

Let's just hope that the 'apparent stroke' is just apparent, and that Sen. Johnson is OK.

Both were barely functioning toward the end of their careers. This was during the Daschle period. I remember.

haha! That's great

I did see Jesse Helms, and yes, that's a pretty accurate description.

I doubt he 'does' since Thurmond died years ago.

Sorry, I thought he was talking about Thurmond and/or Helms. No wonder it sounded odd

More like "year ago".

drooling and wearing diapers.... heeheheh.... and then they got old...

Even if he is completely incapacitated, he stays in office until he gets better or passes away.

There is a precedent, though I don't recall the details. It may have been in the thirties. A Senator who was completely incapacitated (due to stroke?) remained Senator for another 4 years.

Republican Karl Mundt suffered a stroke and was unable to do any of the actual work of the Senate. But he remained in office until 1973.

two thirds of the Senate can expel him for being unable to perform his duties. However, I don't see that happening.

14 of them were charged with supporting the Confederacy. The 15th, William Blount (R-TN), was ousted in 1797 on charges of "Anti-Spanish conspiracy and treason."

So I agree with you. Given this history - and the fact that even if every Republican voted to expel, it would still require 17 Democrats - expulsion is just not likely to happen.

... the point was that he can, in theory, be "fired" by his fellow Senators. In reality, however, it's not going to happen.

and because he was dead, the governor appropriately appointed his wife- as promised. So it's not as if the election was rigged in any way to reflect anything but the electorate's wish.
This is in no way comparable.

It most certainly isn't comparable.

Just that it flipped control of the Senate. If the 'will of the people' argument held, one might remember that Jeffords was elected as a Republican, so their will was thwarted.

Not saying it wasn't a good thing that the Sen was switched (and it certainly didn't do it's job checking exec power when it did), but that there is a precedent.

what I gather, he was generally despised in Vermont for taking the U.S. Senate out of Trent Lott's hands. Sure he was.

The same logic applies to the people of SD, don't you think? While a very blue state elected a Republican, he left the party right after the election and (along with the MO Governor's appointment of Sen. Carnahan), flipped control of the Senate. Likewise, a very red state elected a Democrat who might be replaced with a Republican. It's not a great result, but I don't see how we can whine about the result.

Jean Carnahan was appointed, and she was of the same party, therefore her appointment changed nothing.

The elections to which I was referring were VT in 2000 (the blue state that elected a Repub), and SD in 2002 (a red state that elected a Dem).

in Maine, who make so much of their liberality.

So Gov. Rounds can't even dig the guy Johnson defeated (John Thune) up and appoint him. So... who's left? Daschle, but he's a Democrat. Dashle and Johnson go way way back, though.

Rounds might appoint ex-Governor, ex-Representative, and murderer Bill Janklow.

Bill Janklow won South Dakota's only House seat in 2002 when Rep. John Thune decided to challange Johnson for the Senate instead of running for re-election. About 8 months after being sworn in, Janklow and an aide were en route from one event to another a couple of hours away. Jankow, who is diabetic, was driving and had not eaten pretty much all day. At some point, while cruising the cornfields of Moody County, Jankow ran a stop sign at 70mph. Two motorcyclists were on the cross highway (who didn't have a stop sign, by the way, and Janklow's Cadillac cut through the gap between them. The rear motorcyclist, Randy Scott, plowed into the Caddy at highway speed and was killed.

Janklow was convicted of 2nd degree manslaughter. The judge, whom Janklow has appointed years ago, gave him 100 days in jail. That's right, not quite 4 months.

I personally thought Janklow should have gotten a lot longer than that. He had left the first event without eating because of a heckler who liked to follow Janklow around and Janklow didn't want to deal with him. The aide could have driven, or they could have stopped at any gas station along the way (nearly all of them have convience stores attached) and gotten something to eat. Hell, Janklow could have stayed in the car while the aide got some Twinkies or something. But he didn't, and a guy was killed. I thought five years would have been fair.

So now Janklow has his law licence back and is a lobbyist for the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, MN. So it would not surprise me at all if Rounds tapped Janklow for the job.

Jeffords was CHEERED for refusing to cooperate with ignorant moneygrabbers. Get your facts straight.

smilie on DU? Of course he was cheered.

The election itself gave the senate a democrat from Missouri (be it the late Mel or his wife Jean). Her appointment to serve in her husband's place didn't "flip" anything. Jeffords' defection caused control to swing to our side, but the Missouri senate seat had nothing to do with that.

To begin with Jeffords flipped himself. Better find a better straw man argument.

because that is exactly what WILL HAPPEN

You want abortion banned because they will support a supreme court justice to take it away

You want corporations to be treated as individuals?

I could go on, but I think you get my point

You read my mind exactly! I was hoping for all those things when I pointed out that control of the Senate had been flipped before.

Sheesh. I got your point, but fear you completely missed mine.

As I've already stated upthread, Jean Carnahan's assuming her husband's senate seat did not flip the senate. Jeffords' defection did. So to compare what happened to Mel Carnahan to what might happen (god forbid) with Johnson's set, is completely wrong.

sorry if it came across that way

I am quite sure you agree with progressive issues

Once again, I appologize

I think we were both sweating it out a bit at the time. I'm just glad to hear Sen. Johnson is going to be OK.

True, that was her husband, and he died in a plane crash during the campaign, but the bottom line is that the voters took a "Democrat to be named" which was presumed to be Jean Carnahan, over John Ashcroft.

My understanding is that she *never* won an election. Can you tell me when she was?

It was understood that Jean would be appointed after that. People knew who they were voting for, there just was not enough time to change the ballot.

In 2000, the acting governor of Missouri announced before the election took place that, if Carnahan won, his widow would be appointed in his place. Thus, voters knew going in that a vote for Mel Carnahan was a de facto vote for Jean Carnahan. And the voters picked that alternative over John Ashcroft. In other words, the voters chose a Democrat and a Democrat took office -- and, even more germane, the majority that voted Democratic knew in advance who that eventual senator would be.

There's a world of difference between that situation and this one, where the voters chose a Democrat and would get a Republican against their will.

And how did that *not* happen in VT?

If it stinks that "voters chose a Democrat and would get a Republican against their will", how was it any better when VT voters chose a Republican, but got an Independant (who caucused with Dems)? I am not saying that the result is worse, I am just saying that we can't really complain.

Mel Carnahan died right before the election and his wife was appointed in his place, just as the voters expected. In fact if anything that situation cost the Democrats a seat, because she was put up for reelection two years later and lost the seat. If her husband Mel had lived he would have served the full six year term and there would have been no special election.

And Jeffords was the man elected to that position and the choice to switch was his own. In this situation the governor would be appointing a person who the elected candidate did not support. If Johnson were to volutarily switch to the Republican Party you may have a case, but this is a situation where the Republicans would be taking advantage of someones illness to gain control of the Senate despite that persons wishes.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

I've been visiting this site for years and haven't figured it out. Thanks.

this thread, and it didn't make sense anymore.

It took me a while to figure it out, too.

Someone else already mentioned "eom" for end of message. That one confused me a bit... until I asked.

Over and out...

Radio_Lady in Oregon

US Constitution says how that is done. I believe the Governor appoints......

In case this should come to having to appoint someone, which I pray to God it doesn't...

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Republican?

I think he's Catholic, and he signed that terrible total abortion ban bill earlier this year.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Rounds

if need be????? he will appoint the replacement of his choice. please excuse my extreme paranooia, but wasnt this a little tooooooooooooooooo convenient for the repupgs?

but then I KNOW I'm paranoid.

and yes, how incredibly conveeeeenient this is for the admin, IF he can't continue to serve, was the very first thing on my mind when I heard.

Self-delete

wouldn't his movies be more suitable for children if he was named Jean-Claude van Darn?

n/t

was elected after the predecessor had the drunk driving incident if I remember correctly.

But we don't know how serious the stroke even was yet.

Edit: On MSNBC they just said the Governor appoints...

A House vacancy is filled with an immediate election...a Senate vacancy is filled by the Gov until the next biannual election. There are a few exceptions by state; Mass, in 2004, passed a law allowing the state legislature to fill the vacancy. That way, Romney would not have been able to pick a replacement for Sen. Kerry if he had ascended to the Presidency in 2005.

I've been very worried about this kind of thing happening. MSNBC made it sound very serious. If it's incapacitating...

And would S.D. law allow Rounds to appoint a replacement?

And when would it happen?

Could we lose the majority in the Senate?

Senate Majority leader Trent Lott?

Holy crap!!!!

I sure hope it's not serious and Tim makes a complete and speedy recovery!

Rounds 206,996 62%

Billion 121,241 36%

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2006/pages/results/states/S...

... in a stolen election.

Damn, Tim, pull out! You're a decent guy!

Consider this - I don't think Strom Thurmond could even function the last 12 years in office and they kept him in office.

But the general policy is that the governor will appoint a replacement which will probably come from the party of the governor. Then in the next major election in South Dakota a special election would be held to fill out the term of the senator.

But let's not put the cart before the horse, people have survived strokes

presumably he'd want his old job back and you'd have to think he'd be a prohibitive favorite in any election. But then, I know nothing about SD politics- am I correct?

The governor appoints. The governor is a Republican.

But Rounds might have been looking to run for Johnson's seat in '08 himself. Can Rounds appoint himself to the Senate?!?!?!?

oh wait, he resigned from the Senate after being elected governor and appointed his DAUGHTER to the Senate.

no conflict of interest or nepotism there.

Normally the governor appoints someone, but they have a special election in a few months. Will that not happen here?

The governor appoints in the interim until a special election. http://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/resources/p...

I just hope Senator Johnson is okay, and hope his family is comforted and consoled during this very unsettling ordeal.

They all have my prayers.

then he'll still be far more coherent, cogent and healthy-appearing than drug-and-booze-addled Georgie Butch.

Has he been visiting South Dakota lately?

I'm just sayin', y'know ...

nuclear missile silos out there...

per MSNBC

ambulances going by and helicopters flying around about an hour or two ago?

I work in GTown ...didn't notice anything down here

my wonderful Democratic mailcarrier stuffered a stroke a two months ago. He's in his mid 50's. He was in the hospital for less than a week and two weeks after he got out, he's back delivering mail. I don't know if he's on a shorter route, but I see him nearly everyday and he's doing great and just loves to chat about the wonderful Democratic wins.

Let's all just hope Senator Johnson is like William and not laid up too long and is soon back on the Hill.

How frightening.

He told staff right after noon eastern that he wasn't feeling well, they called the House physician who examined him and then called for an ambulance to take him to the hospital.

The good news is that it wasn't a debilitating immediate stroke (collapse and possibly die kind of thing).

The bad news is that it is still a stroke and they can get progressively worse if the blood clot is not removed (dissolved by drugs or sometimes by catheter).

The good news is that he is getting treatment early after presenting mild symptoms. There is a high recovery rate for these types of stokes, especially in younger patients (he is 60 according to MSNBC, looks younger to me).

Scarborough is almost orgasmic thinking about a repuke controlled senate. Asshole.

I saw the headline and was stunned for a couple of minutes.

stroke". According to M$NBC a couple mins ago.

There is no reason why he should have to resign unless it's a person decision (his term is up in 2008). And there is plenty of time for recovery. It's not like he's the only senator under medical treatment during the brake, Craig Thomas of Wyoming is undergoing treatment for Leukemia right now

If Thomas should have to withdraw, the Repukes give the Gov a list to choose from.

a link to show how each state select a senator in case of death/incapacitation would be nice.

If it's a Congressperson, the State Board of Elections charges the district committee of the party of the incumbent Congressperson with the responsibility of picking the replacement--so the replacement will be from the same party. If a senator, the State Board of Elelctions charges the state executive committee of the party of the incumbent senator with making the pick--again, so the replacement is of the same party. The next general election then decides who will hold the office for the remainder of the term--or for the next term, if a Congressperson.

My thoughts and prayers are with Sen. Johnson and his family--especially his son, who is serving/did serve in Iraq.

For many strokes, getting the person to the doc asap is one of their best shots at a good recovery.

As for Joe: fuck you. You make me sick.

That it's a minor stroke and he will be ok. Everyone calm down.

was definitely a stroke (was watching M$NBC since 3 pm CST)

and at the very end of the segment said that it was only an "apparent stroke".

it was discovered early, which is the key to minimizing the damage a strok could do. Let's hope that a full (and quick) recovery can make all the replacement discussions moot!

Brian Williams reported that Sen. Johnson may have had a stroke, and Tim Russert was PRACTICALLY JUMPING UP AND DOWN WITH EXCITEMENT over a change in the Senate. It was gross. A man is in the hospital, and Russert already has him dead and buried, so power will shift in the Senate. Maybe he and Scarborough can go get orgasmic together.

but it's not even on their web site yet. Reid suffered a minor stroke last year too, with few consequences. Let's not panic yet...

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Senator_Tim_Johnson_r...

Video: S.D. senator suffers stroke

http://dailynightly.msnbc.com/

He's in my thoughts and prayers.

Republicans have been hard after him during _Bush's seizure of the White House.

Fingers crossed.

My dad died from a stroke, but his was from bleeding in the brain rather than a blood clot. If they'd given him an anti-coagulent, the bleeding would have gotten even worse. The anti-coagulants only work for strokes brought on by clots.

but what you are talking about is an intracerebral hemorrhage which is very different than a cerebrovascular accident (CVA) or transient ischemic attack (TIA), the latter two a disruption in blood supply to the brain causing neurologic insult.

CVAs and TIAs are treatable by anticoagulants. Intracerebral hemorrhage is not, but that is not technically considered a stroke. Some doctors unfortunately aren't clear when speaking to patient's families in layman terms.

As an example of this same mistaken nomenclature, people often refer to gastroenteritis as "flu" when technically influenza is a distinctly different condition.

Sorry to hear about your dad. My father passed away of same in January of this year.

And they called it a stroke when they talked to my Mom. It happened over 10 years ago, and he was only 63 at the time. It was in the region of brain stem, and he suffered major brain damage, never even regaining consciousness.

But short of dying in one's sleep, that's probably the next best way to go IMHO.

all about the quick routes.