Synagogues Warned To Step Up Security Over Christmas Trees

[rsmith6621]

This Story Is Getting More Pathetic

SEATTLE -- The Anti-Defamation League is sending a letter to some local synagogues, asking them to increase security in light of hate e-mails the group has received after a decision by Sea-Tac Airport to take down Christmas trees.

Crews took down Christmas trees at the airport early Saturday because a rabbi had threatened a lawsuit unless a menorah was added to the display.

http://www.kirotv.com/news/10510805/detail.html

[sinkingfeeling]

1. Uh, shouldn't hate e-mail be directed to Sea-Tac Airport Administrators?

The RW nuts can't get anything right!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

5. Uh, isn't hate e-mail stupid to begin with?

1. because it's a stupid issue to get upset about.

and

2. It's over Christmas, you know, good will towards man and all that.

[rodeodance]

30. hate mail is dangerous.

[Megahurtz]

47. Yeah Right.

:eyes:

They didn't do anything wrong.

[yellowcanine]

2. Sounds as if the "War on Christmas" is coming in right on schedule. Can't we just skip it this year?

I mean this is getting old.

[VegasWolf]

3. O'Liely and the Gibbon Monkey would not be able to push their "books". nt

[MADem]

4. I think the airport should have put up a giant dreidel, myself

After all, what does a pine TREE with twinkling lights have to do with what happened in that manger in Bethlehem?? NUTHIN....

Because it is CALLED a "Christmas" tree, it 'alludes' to the Christmas story, just as the toy top with the Hebrew letters on the sides 'alludes' to the Hannukah story...

[chelsea0011]

7. When did the tradition of bringing a dead tree in the house come about?

I think you are right. It didn't have anything to do with xmas.

[TechBear_Seattle]

11. "Christmas" trees are very pagan in origin

Germanic religious tradition held that animals and people were sacrificed to the gods by hanging them from trees sacred to the deity to which the sacrifice is intended and either killed with spears or butchered by the priest. Many of these sacrifices were done during autum and winter, with the winter solstice a common time.

With Christianization, trees became sacred to different saints or other Christian deities and blood sacrifices were replaced with symbolic representations of sacrificial animals. Also, the use of non-blood sacrifices -- fruit, flowers, items made from bread or pastry and decorations of wheat, barley and oat straw -- became much more common.

The custom of these "sacrificial trees" had almost entirely died out, and by the mid 1800s could be found in only a very few places in Europe. One of these places was Bavaria, the birthplace of Prince Albert, Queen Victoria's husband. When he married Victoria and moved to England, he brought the custom with him, where it spread quickly, first to the aristocracy and from there to the common people. Charles Dickens did much to popularize the custom.

[rodeodance]

31. Here is one legend: 7th C

http://www.christmasarchives.com/trees.html

[xultar]

10. I love those big commercial sized dreidels used for decoration.

They are cool.

[MADem]

42. So do I, the MASSIVE ones!!! Just the thing for an airport holiday decoration!

And that way, the lawsuit guy gets a piece of the action....

Sheesh, it's just so unfortunate that the time of "peace on earth/festival of joy" has to be crapped on by litigating shits. Sorta defeats the purpose....

I suppose the airport coulda just skipped the trees, and put up pine garlands, the odd bows, and twinking lights...that would flummox any litigious types...it's certainly "seasonal" but there's no "Christmas" specifically associated with those types of decorations.

[Critters2]

18. A giant dreidel. That'd be cool. nt

[Mojambo]

6. I think everything should be taken down

And replaced with giant Sharper Image catalogue ads.

[anitar1]

8. Why not simply ignore the holidays?

No one has a gun to the head of corporations, that says they have to display anything. If an object represents a religion, do nothing. Religions promote violence. Look at all of the wars that have been about religion.Stop displaying anything that smacks of any religion. We can all celebrate in our homes. Besides,all of these displays use energy we cannot afford in these times.

[Poll_Blind]

9. So is it safe to assume that the hate-mail would be coming from "Christians"?

It's too bad the subject line didn't allow the "wanna-be missed-the-point-of-tolerance" prefix I was going to put on Christians because, of course, it's not all Christians who are driven mad by the inability to set up the United States as a Christian Nation.

  The Rabbi was right, if the airport wants to put up Christmas trees which are uniquely Christian symbols (as I understand it) there's no legal or Constitutional reason why Judaic symbols or Muslim symbols or Pagan symbols or Subgenius symbols, etc., should be excluded. Putting this on the Rabbi, like it's somehow his fault, is bullshit and this hate-mail campaign is definitely from a Christian-supremist point of view.

  The ADL is an organization has been caught in the past comitting illegal acts outside of their stated purview and generally I condemn their less-than-even-handed approach to revealing bigotry. But they're certainly well-funded enough and have an infrastructure which would allow them to research if there was a campaign (something started by a radio personality, perhaps?) to hound the Rabbi for merely asking for equality under law. I would love to find out who's behind this, because it's probably some Right-Wing Christian group who would happily spend equal amounts of time sending hate-mail to Muslims over something similar.

PB

[Critters2]

17. Actually, the trees pre-date Christianity as a seaonsal symbol

They come from pagan winter celebrations.

The trees should have stayed up. A menorah could easily have been added.

[Poll_Blind]

21. Thank you! There was some niggling thing in the back of my mind..

...about the trees. I forgot how much of Paganism was...ahem!...lifted and incorporated into Christianity.

  As an atheist, if it were a government building I would be against displaying any religious symbols. However, I don't know what rules would apply to the airport. If the current laws allow them to display religious objects then I say, the more the merrier! Let's have pentagrams, crosses, menorahs, crescents, the smiling face of Bob Dobbs and the flying spaghetti monster!

PB

[MADem]

43. Thing is, though,

the menorah IS a "religious" symbol. The Xmas tree really is NOT.

A creche, though, IS.

That's why I suggested putting a giant toy top up there with the four Hebrew letters on it. It "alludes" to the Jewish holiday, but all it is, is a giant toy top. Just like the Xmas tree "alludes" to the Christian holiday, having been incorporated from pagan tradition, but all it is, really, is a pine tree ... with lights. Heck, they could put lights on the giant top, too, if they wanted to be "egalitarian" about it. Ho, friken, ho, ho, HO!!!

You can celebrate Xmas without a tree, and you can celebrate Chanukah without a dreidel. They are "suggestive" of the holidays, but that's really all they are. They certainly are not religious icons of any sort. You can go to homes in Catholic Europe and not find any trees at all, but you certainly WILL find the manger scene (and the littlest kid in the family is called on sometimes to put the toy plastic or china baby Jesus in the hay on Xmas day). In some places that celebrate differently than America, there are no presents on Xmas, you get them on Three King's Day (Jan 6). Christmas is a Holy Day, where ya eat fish for supper on the eve, go to mass at midnight and eat meat like a pig the following day, not a get-toys-day. And trees are simply suggestive of the season--you don't NEED to have one in your house to celebrate the holiday.

So much fuss...over what's really not a religious symbol at all. I wonder what the guy would have done if (claimed by the Turks, St. Nicholas is) giant SANTA CLAUSES had been put up instead of the trees....it would be a stretch calling SANTA a religious icon, especially since the Japanese, many of whom are not Xtian, can't get enough of the guy---or the TREES either, come to think of it!!! It's a shopping and partying opportunity, and an excuse to give gifts, as far as they see it.

[Captain Hilts]

34. I read he wanted an 8ft. menorah. I don't know if that's true. nt

[MADem]

44. Give him a ten foot dreidel!!! NT

[tularetom]

12. Maybe the war on christmas will be fought with live ammuntion n/t

[BadgerKid]

13. Sing along: Smite thy neighbor wi' yuletide ha-ate

fa la la la la, la la la la?
:sarcasm:

Wouldn't Jesus be embarrassed for these Xmas mongers (the alleged hate emailers)?

[Critters2]

22. I'm sure he is. nt

[Behind the Aegis]

14. What a sad state of affairs.

It is a good thing the ADL has informed synagogues to step up security or we could end up with another incident like the one in Seattle.

[AlienGirl]

37. This was the Sea-Tac airport, in Seattle

Much has been made of the fact that only 2% or so of the population here is Jewish.

I think many Jewish people in Seattle feel pressured of late.

Tucker

[RogueBandit]

15. Purchase Tree

It's a Purchase Tree, not a Christmas Tree. It has become a symbol of merchants and purchasers...if not actual greed.

Just 'cause it's called a Christmas Tree doesn't mean anyone actually thinks about Christ when they see it...okay maybe some people do. But most people think about presents and the mall (and for a few lucky souls the Autoplex).

[Critters2]

19. I don't know anyone who thinks about Christ in reference to a Christmas tree

and I do religion (specifically progressive Christian religion) for a living.

[JudyM]

26. I do. (I'm Jewish.) nt

[smirkymonkey]

29. It actually has nothing to do with Christ whatsoever.

It was a pre-Christian pagan tradition that somewhere along the way was adopted as a Christian tradition (kind of the way pagan fertilty symbols morphed into easter eggs, bunnies and peeps.)

It has a long and varied history. See link below:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_tree


FYI, I am agnostic and don't believe in religion at all - however I like the holiday traditions because they bring back memories of happy family times and there is something comforting about carrying on family traditions from year to year. To me, it's a winter celebration and nothing more.

[JudyM]

36. I get that, but it still broadcasts "Christianity" even if it was originally pagan.

I'm happy for folks like you who have warm family memories associated with the trees and the carols and they may not seem Christian to you, but to those who have never been in that circle, they most definitely are Christian. Don't get me wrong: I don't begrudge anyone their joy, etc associated with this, and I appreciate and respect progressive Christian values... I just think that for some of us with a different history it's a stretch to view a Christmas tree as secular on any level.

As Keith Olbermann pointed out tonight, the Rabbi was simply asking for a menorah to be added to the display. That would have brought Jews in to the seasonal celebratory message being displayed by all the trees. But for whatever reason, the guy in charge decided to make a point (maybe trying to bring attention to the "war on Christmas") by taking all the trees down instead.

Happy holidays! :pals:

[Captain Hilts]

39. But placing a menorah with the Christmas stuff would anger my Jewish friend.

She also is offended by the giving of gifts at Hanukkah.

[MADem]

45. I still think a menorah is not equivalent!!!

This is, though--a big 'un, maybe with some blue and white lights on it!



The "equivalent" to a menorah is a manger scene, IMO, and I think it's best we stay away from those if we possibly can...see my babble upthread about "alluding" to holidays!

[Megahurtz]

48. Hmmm, I know Jewish friends that put up a Christmas Tree

every year.

[Critters2]

16. Would it have killed the airport people to put up a Chanukiah?

I mean, really! How much harm would that have done?

[daleo]

20. It's too bad Christianity co-opted so many mid-winter traditions

A recognition of mid-winter, especially in high latitudes seems to satisfy a deep human need.

It would be nice if we could just acknowledge that many of these "Christmas" traditions pre-date Christianity, and take them back as secular celebrations (e.g. the tradition of bringing a tree indoors, exchanging gifts, stringing lights, having parties, etc). Unfortunately, the excessively devout would still see that as a "war on Christmas" while others will still see it as sneaking Christianity in through the side door.

[pink-o]

23. What a stupid issue...

..Chanukkah isn't even an important holiday for Jews--it's not like anyone is interfering with Yom Kippur or anything!!!

Look, every religion has some sort of celebration around this time of the year. The Hindus have a Festival of Lights, and Ramadan fell around this time of year a couple years ago. (And New Year's Day is an important Muslim holiday this year: they acknowledge the almost-sacrifice that Abraham made of Isaac--wow! How Old Testament of them! I guess they're more like us than we care to admit!)

Anyway, how would that Rabbi feel if every last belief demanded recognition in Seatlle Airport? The little schlemiel needs to get the hell over it!

[JudyM]

25. It's a public place, being pad for by taxes. Christmas is a specific religion's holiday.

Decorating with lights is one thing, putting up a Christmas tree can be perceived as establishment of religion, or at least exclusionary. This can be overwhelming enough with all the commercial deluge of Christmas without public, presumably secular entities adding on to it.

Just sayin'

[ikojo]

28. Actually the Muslims don't acknowledge the

Akeda (binding of Isaac) but rather Ishmael

http://www3.kumc.edu/diversity/ethnic_relig/eid-al-adha.html

Eid al-Adha or Feast of Sacrifice is the most important feast of the Muslim calendar. It concludes the Pilgrimmage to Mecca. Eid al-Adha lasts for three days and commemorates Ibraham's (Abraham) willingness to obey God by sacrificing his son. Muslims believe the son to be Ishmael rather than Isaac as told in the Old Testament. Ishmael is considered the forefather of the Arabs. According to the Koran, Ibrahim was about to sacrifice his son when a voice from heaven stopped him and allowed him to sacrifice a ram instead.

[xchrom]

24. just add the menorah!!

the airport taking down the tree was SO stupid.

just add the menorah!!

[IndianaGreen]

33. Add the menorah, and some pagan symbols, and Islamic symbols

I think that's what the airport authority was afraid of.

I certainly want some rainbows added to whatever exhibit they have!

How many Xtians are aware that their much beloved Xmas tree is nothing more than a pagan symbol welcoming the winter solstice?

[ikojo]

27. I'm Jewish and I don't get my latkes all

in a lather over Christmas trees. I also don't understand why the airport couldn't just put up a menorah or a dreidle as has been suggested elsewhere on this thread.

[Captain Hilts]

35. Some of my Jewish friends don't like seeing menorahs with Christmas trees...

because they say Hanukkah is NOT a holiday on a par with Christmas and to try to compete - especially in reference to gifts, etc. - is not how the holiday should be celebrated.

Some of my other Jewish friends are completely cool with it. So, there's no consensus among Jews about how Hanukkah should be celebrated.

[Ian David]

38. There's no consensus among Jews about ANYTHING

If you want ten opinions, just ask five rabbis.

You know what should be displayed alongside the xmas tree instead of a menorah?

A cash register.

Thanks to Bill and his fake "War on Xmas," it's not inconceivable that someone will get violent over something like the airport incident.

Just because one asshole said, "put up a menorah so that MY people will feel included," and then some other asshole said, "No, I'd rather take down my xmas tree than to put up some damned Jewish thing next to it."

This isn't a "war against xmas."

This is a war against inclusiveness.

[JudyM]

41. Your final statement is dead-on. It's a war against inclusiveness. nt

[IndianaGreen]

32. The rabbi merely wanted a menorah to be added

it was the airport authority that took our beloved winter solstice symbol down, and it was the crazy Christians that complained about the Jews.

Let's put some Channukah bushes up! ;-)

[Javaman]

40. I weep for our society...

we care more about x-mas trees and national flags than the men and women who are dying over in Iraq.

Please lets take a step back and look a the big picture.

[Karenina]

46. Symbols vs Reality

And the big picture is NOT pretty... :cry: