Voting machines lose ally

[DoYouEverWonder]

November 11. 2006

SARASOTA COUNTY -- Amid questions surrounding the touch-screen voting system that registered an 18,000-ballot undervote in Tuesday's congressional race, Supervisor of Elections Kathy Dent now says she will comply with voters who want a new voting system -- one that produces a paper trail.

Dent will encourage county commissioners to replace the touch-screen machines with a paper ballot system.

Her announcement Friday marks a reversal for the elections supervisor, who had promoted and adamantly defended the touch-screen system the county purchased for $4.5 million in 2001.

Although a ballot initiative that called for a paper trail and spot audits of election results won 55 percent approval Tuesday, the switch to paper still seemed uncertain, as Secretary of State Sue Cobb, Dent and the County Commission were slated to challenge its constitutionality in the appellate court.

http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061111/NEWS/611110530


Amazing how fast Repugs can flip flop when things go wrong for them.

[GreenPartyVoter]

1. *lol* Indeed

[Hekate]

2. KnR. When can we throw the infernal machines into the harbor? nt

[mom cat]

4. That would be a great symbolic act! We would need to rig a way to retriev them

after the protest so they do not spread their poison to our precious environment!However, I think that it would be a dramatic thing to do!

[roody]

3. Why would a supervisor of elections not want secure votes?

Who the heck is she working for, anyway?????!!!!!

[flyarm]

5. JEB..............N/T

[Zorra]

6. You know, it doesn't take a fucking genius to figure out that

electronic voting is a total accident waiting to happen.

Just who came up with this dumb idea, anyway?

[Mr_Spock]

7. Hey, we'll get rid of these machines any way we can!!

Even if it is a Republican who pulls the cord on them!

[Raster]

8. Memo to Speaker-elect Pelosi: FIX THE ELECTORAL MESS!

Let the first action of Congress be the revamping of the American election infrastructure and process. Enact and enforce legislation that guarantees every qualified American citizen the right to vote without suppression or intimidation. Severly punish those that would supress and intimidate. Put in place a transparent tabulation system to ensure that all ballots are fairly counted and the results verifiable. Madame Pelosi, fix this mess. Take whatever steps are necessary to insure that there are no repeats of Selection 2000, 2002 and 2004.
:kick:12!

[mcg]

9. Donations are needed for recount / legal action...

FLA Dems need cash NOW to help with legal battle re: Harris's (former) seat - donate now!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2950989

The percentages of undervotes in Sarasota are just stunning.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2685285#2685367

[nicknameless]

10. Well, she's getting closer. Paper BALLOTS -- not just a "paper trail"

In some states, the paper trail is just a receipt, printed (correctly or incorrectly) by the voting machine ... provided that the machine boots up properly and the printer doesn't jam. The paper isn't used for the original count. Plus, the paper trail could be printed on thermal paper, which fades very quickly over time.

Why on earth should machines be used instead of voters to mark ballots? Why should any voter have to rely on a machine and its printer to function properly and print their vote correctly?

Better idea: paper ballots with pens to mark them. The tried and true method of voting. Nice and low tech.

[DoYouEverWonder]

12. She doesn't have much choice in the matter

Sarasota County voted last Tuesday for a Charter Amendment that now requires a paper ballot.

[nicknameless]

24. I hadn't heard that! Great news :)

Woo-hoo! No wonder Sarasota's elections were a mess. I can't imagine that the local rethugs wanted to make that switch.

Congratulations to the Sarasota voters! :)

[nicknameless]

29. That article is confusing. A paper ballot and a paper trail are NOT the same thing.

The article seems to use the terms interchangeably.

[Vidar]

11. Good to hear. Recommended.

[Judi Lynn]

13. Bradenton Herald: Dent will back machines with trail

Posted on Sun, Nov. 12, 2006
Dent will back machines with trail
CARL MARIO NUDI
Herald Staff Writer

SARASOTA - The Sarasota supervisor of elections said she will back the county using voting machines that provide a paper trail.

"As a result of the vote," said Sarasota County Supervisor of Elections Kathy Dent in a letter to voters late last week, ". . . I am going to urge the county commission to find the necessary funds to purchase voting equipment which will satisfy the expression of the voters and current federal and state law."

Dent's position change was the result of a Sarasota County charter amendment, approved by 55 percent of voters Tuesday, requiring a county voting system that has a paper trail.

It also comes in the wake of questions about whether electronic voting machines recorded all the votes in the tight race between Vern Buchanan and Christine Jennings for the 13th Congressional District. In Sarasota County, more than 18,000 fewer votes were recorded in that race than the number of people who went to the polls.
(snip/...)

http://www.bradenton.com/mld/bradenton/news/local/15992080.htm

[Selatius]

14. FLIP-FLOP! You stupid bastard!

What the hell is wrong with Kathy Dent challenging a ballot initiative that won 55 percent that mandates a paper trail? What kind of drugs is she taking? Or is she that fucking stupid?

[Judi Lynn]

15. CBS News:Large 'Undervote' In Hot House Race Raises Voting Machine Concerns

Florida Recount, 2006-Style
Large 'Undervote' In Hot House Race Raises Voting Machine Concerns
Nov. 11, 2006

(CBS) This story was written by CBS News chief investigative correspondent Armen Keteyian and producers Phil Hirschkorn and Michael Rey.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Editor's Note: An earlier version of this story incorrectly identified the voting machines used in Manatee, Hardee and DeSoto counties. Those machines are made by Diebold.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Monday Florida will begin its first recount for a federal election since the botched 2000 presidential contest, but this time there will be no hanging chads. It is the reliability of touch screen electronic voting machines that will be in the spotlight.

The disputed race in Florida's 13th Congressional District, south of Tampa, is one place where the kind of machines used by 40% of American voters this week may have malfunctioned significantly enough to alter the outcome of a seat in Congress.

The CBS News Investigative Unit has obtained an E-mail by a key election official indicating she may have known well before Election Day the machines weren't working properly.

Republican Vern Buchanan beat Democrat Christine Jennings by 373 votes with 237,842 counted, according to unofficial results from the Florida Division of Elections.

That tiny margin – less than one-half of one percent – triggered an automatic recount under Florida state law.

But the Jennings campaign believes thousands of votes in the district's most populous county went unrecorded. If they had been counted, the campaign says, Jennings would be on her way to Washington.
(snip/...)

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/11/11/cbsnews_investigates/main2174376.shtml

[Cookie wookie]

16. Would like to see the national media adding this historical data

to articles on the undervotes in Sarasota:

There is a precedent for this kind of undervote on paperless DREs.

In the presidential preferences primary in 2004 in Georgia, there was a 14% undervote out of 625,115 votes in Democratic primary in the U.S. Senate race.

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/insider/1004a/102804.html

[dubykc]

17. Purely symbolic!

"Dent will encourage county commissioners to replace the touch-screen machines with a paper ballot system."

This statement is a far cry from a mandate.

[peaches2003]

18. Touch screen rigged here

I heard a woman call-in to Thom Hartmann with the same problem I had here in the northern subs of Atlanta. Don't remember her location, but it wasn't GA.

Repug name was in the top box of each race; Dem name in the 2nd box
Touch directly on the Dem name and the X went in the Repug candidate's box.

I had to cancel my vote 3 times in the Gov. and Congressional races to get the X in the Dem column. Only way to get that to happen was to touch in the very bottom of the Dem's box. In other words, the Repug candidate had not only his own box but 3/4 of the Dem's box to be touched and the vote record for the Repug. The woman calling into TH said the exact same thing. Both were Diebold machines. I only had that trouble in the Gov. and Congressional races. I can imagine how many voters didn't even notice and just went on to the next race w/out looking where their vote X went. Think it was an accident? HA!

We HAVE to go back to paper ballots or at least be given that option.

[peaches2003]

19. Touch screen rigged in GA

I heard a woman call-in to Thom Hartmann with the same problem I had here in the northern subs of Atlanta. Don't remember her location, but it wasn't GA.

Repug name was in the top box of each race; Dem name in the 2nd box
Touch directly on the Dem name and the X went in the Repug candidate's box.

I had to cancel my vote 3 times in the Gov. and Congressional races to get the X in the Dem column. Only way to get that to happen was to touch in the very bottom of the Dem's box. In other words, the Repug candidate had not only his own box but 3/4 of the Dem's box to be touched and the vote record for the Repug. The woman calling into TH said the exact same thing. Both were Diebold machines. I only had that trouble in the Gov. and Congressional races. I can imagine how many voters didn't even notice and just went on to the next race w/out looking where their vote X went. Think it was an accident? HA!

We HAVE to go back to paper ballots or at least be given that option.

[krispos42]

20. The touch-screen machines could be okay IF.....

the ONLY purpose of the machine was to print out a paper ballot. It is a good thing because it can show alternate languages and large text.

Here in Minnesota you fill in your ballot with a marker and put it in a privacy folder. Then you walk over to a counting machine, where under the eyes of a poll worker, you feed the top of the ballot into the machine. It sucks the ballot out of the privacy folder and scans the results.

The touch-screen machines are a good idea, but should not have any capacity at all to record any kind of tally. The poll workers could easily burn a read-only PDF ballot onto a CD-R and put that disc into the touchscreen machine. The CD-ROM drive should be behind a padlocked door visible from the outside. Not some fucking minibar lock. And all the touchscreen machine does is put an "X" next to your choices, then print them out on a laser printer.

I think even the automatic counting machines should be done away with, so that you take your freshly-printed ballot to a translucent (not transparent) plastic box and slip it in a slot so that it stacks neatly inside. A poll worker can stand there to make sure you don't try to slip more than one it. Perhaps some sort of automatic feed mechanism like on a copier so that if you try to slip in extra ballots the cops can arrest you.

And count them by hand, under scrutiny of the press and independent observers. It's once every two years, suck it up and deal with it.

The reason the Diebold ATM machines work so well is because the banks have a vested interest in the accuracy of the machines. If I put on my :tinfoilhat: I'd might be inclined to note that big businesses have a vested interest in pro-Republican voting machines.

Oregon does all of their balloting by mail. They mail you a ballot; you fill it out at your leisure and mail it back. Maybe it's time for that to be nationwide.

And for God's sake, can we have some instant-runoff voting?

[Pastiche423]

22. We, Oregonians

can also drop off our ballots at closely watched places. I've always dropped my ballot off at our library.

[Strelnikov_]

23. Agree About Using Them To Print The Paper Record, But Can Simply Be A Paper Tape

in order to use lower cost register receipt printers.

Voters name, as is typical now, is recorded as admitted.

Voters are then assigned to a specific machine. The time a voter is assigned to a specific machine is recorded.

Printed ballot could be as follows:

Pres: G. Bush (R)
Gov: J. Bush (R)
Senate: No Vote
Congress: K. Harris (R)

Prop 3 - Gay Marriage Ban: Yes

. . .

The ballot would also have a printed bar code for quick counting, and the time/machine number/ballot no. printed at the very top and very bottom of the ballot for audit/tracking purposes.

The voter reviews the ballot, and if not acceptable, surrenders to an election worker for machine reset, spoiling of ballot, and revote. Spoiled ballots are retained. Printed ballots are placed in locked box by voter, just like the old days.

At the close of voting, ballot box is broken open. Ballots are separated by machine, and then into lots of no more than 50 votes per machine. For machines with multiple lots, the lot number is marked on the ballot in ink.

Machine count of each lot is then made used a hand held optical scanner, the printed totals for each lot attached to the lot, and the results of each lot submitted to the elections office. As a part of this process, total number of ballots per machine are compared to the voter assignment record.

As soon as practicable, but not exceeding seven days following the election, a complete manual count/audit to confirm the results of the machine count are performed. In the event of a discrepancy, the manual count results, after rechecking and validation, shall govern.


This process provides for: A quick count the night of the election; Recording of results by lot to help prevent tampering and aid auditing; and most importantly, a complete manual count to verify/audit.

All we need to add is a $100 printer to each machine.


A similar protocal to the above could be used for optical scan ballots (break into lots, machine count night of election, complete manual count/audit following election).

[krispos42]

25. Excellent

Sounds wonderful. I used the idea for standard photocopy paper because that stuff is everyplace, as are printers that use it, but a register tape would work as well. Non-thermal, of course. We wouldn't want somebody to "accidently" black out an urban precinct with an iron, now, would we?

I'm hesitant about using barcodes, though. Our scanners are easily sophisticated enough to read computer printing. This way, both the poll workers and the scanners are reading the same printed characters.

It could print out like this:

(●) Franklin Roosevelt (Democrat)
( ) Richard Nixon (Republican)
( ) Ross Perot (Reform)
( ) Jesse Ventura (Independence)

Like a bubble sheet.

My thinking is that the exact same ballot could also be used for absentee and provisional voting, so there is absolutely no confusion among either machines or poll workers. That's my rational for a standard-size printed ballot.

<edit: had to turn off smileys for the bullet point to work!>

[Strelnikov_]

27. Yep. I Think The Main Thing Is The E-Machines Can Print The Ballot

like you said. And we can allow machine tabulation for a quick count the night of the election.

The critical item, though, is a full manual count/audit.

No one is going to game the software for the machine count devices if a full manual count/audit of the paper ballots is to follow.

Proprietary, who cares? If their machines start having 'accuracy' problems as revealed by the manual counts, there will be hell to pay.

Heck, I am even willing to predict that if they implement what we are talking about, the machines will suddenly be as accurate as bank ATM's.

It is amazing what a little sunlight will do.

[JBear]

26. This sounds good but...

I would like to actually see "early voting" starting one week ahead of the election day, and at the end of each day of early voting the votes are tabulated as you suggest and posted. This does many things towards making elections more tamper proof. First and foremost, we are able to hand count races and see the progress quickly. Second it allows the "race" to heat up as the vote day gets closer - driving voter turn out way up.

Just thinking out loud...

:bounce:

[kiteinthewind]

21. HCPB's--That's how I want to vote!

The only transparent option. :toast:

[NorthernSpy]

28. NOW they agree with us on this?

Gee. What changed?

:eyes:


Still: better late than never! I welcome all the Republicans who have joined us in demanding verifiable voting.

:hi: