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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 07:11 AM
Original message
Mexico riot police re-take Oaxaca
Mexican riot police have seized control of the southern city of Oaxaca, ending a five-month occupation by striking teachers and leftist activists.

The demonstrators had been calling for the resignation of the state governor.

The 4,000 federal officers, backed by armoured trucks and helicopters, met little resistance. One man is reported to have died in the operation.

...

The federal police were met with little resistance when they entered the city from several directions.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6096960.stm
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 08:18 AM
Response to Original message
1. Retake or restore order for 1/2 hour?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. To restore order, they'd have to arrest each other. n/t
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. Good point!
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
2. "People were urged not to confront the police..."--This wise and peaceful
movement is typical of the leftist revolution that has swept Latin America. The millions of supporters of it are neither violent nor particularly angry, just very, very determined upon justice at last for the vast population of the poor and brown who have suffered under U.S.-installed fascist and corporate dictatorships.

"People were urged not to confront the police, to maintain their calm and not give the police a pretext for attack. One man, who was carrying a metal bar for protection, was told by another person to leave it behind. After he handed the bar away the people around him started to applaud."
http://www.narconews.com/Issue43/article2253.html

This is what I expected, from reading about the Oaxaca movement. The movement is led by TEACHERS--whom the fascist governor violently attacked in the dead of night last June. The teachers were camped out, on strike. That assault by state police forces sparked this huge and peaceful uprising, which has been further assaulted by the governor's paramilitary forces, who have killed and kidnapped protesters.

Look at the photos in this NarcoNews report. Do these people look like dangerous rebels, or a threat to anyone?

"The PFP (federal police) stayed in the same place for hours (and) were still there when darkness fell. People I spoke to were speculating that the federal police had been surprised by the amount of people on the street and were going to retreat. An air of winning the battle spread, but Im not convinced that more violent PFP wont be seen tonight." --Nancy Davies (10/30/06)

There are reports the federales have killed two children--boys aged 12 and 14--and invaded the radio station at the state university, which has been urging calm and non-violence (but later reports that the station has returned to the air). Reports of widespread use of tear gas and 50 arrests; also that police forces of some kind (not clear who) invaded the homes of the movement leaders.

Read the real news, direct from the streets of Oaxaca, at: http://www.narconews.com /
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Correction to the BBC report:
This BBC article reports the following:

"...after police attacked one of their demonstrations in June (the teachers' strike), they extended their demands to include a call for the resignation of Gov Ruiz. The teachers were joined in their protest by left-wing groups."

Also: "Some 70,000 teachers have voted to return to school on Monday - a move which may ease tensions in the city, says the BBC's Duncan Kennedy in Mexico."

Put two and two together here. SEVENTY THOUSAND teachers were on strike, and are the leaders of this movement. The BBC says they "were joined in their protest by left-wing groups."

But the MAIN FORCE OF SUPPORTERS who joined the teachers' movement were ORDINARY OAXACANS--community leaders, workers, small farmers, students. "Left-wing groups" sounds like extremists or outsiders or trouble-makers of some kind. It is a very inaccurate representation of the millions of ordinary Mexicans and Oaxacans who support this movement and have been actively participating in it, and have experienced the joy and also the difficulty of self-government. What they did in Oaxaca was LAWFUL. The Mexican Constitution provides for self-rule by the people in cases of oppression. Specific FORMS of self-rule, based on ancient native Indian organization, are even spelled out. This was NOT a riotous situation, nor in any sense disorderly. It was a RESTORATION of order, in the face of Ruiz's disorderly, corrupt and violent state government.

And Fox/Calderon--the government of the Corporate Rulers--have used the EXCUSE of the MURDER of a No. American Indy news photographer and of two Mexicans, by Ruiz's paramilitary forces, to PUT DOWN this peaceful PEOPLES' movement.

The BBC is generally a more reliable news source than our war profiteering corporate news monopolies, but it does have its slant, often favorable to "establishment" powers. It has an amazing network of reporters around the world--often people who know local languages and understand the cultures they are reporting on. But the BBC is also under assault by the Corporate Rulers and warmongers in England, who are bent upon curtailing the BBC's objectivity and punishing its journalists with cutbacks. Bear this in mind when you read or hear BBC reports.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. I watched Brad Will's last tape. One woman said," We are not
Edited on Mon Oct-30-06 09:43 AM by sfexpat2000
teachers, we are just the people. We will have no more corruption, assassinations, repression here. We will have no more of that." (Para phase)

When attacked, the people fought back with slingshots and bottle rockets. They yelled, "Come on, cabrones, we are the people."

It was one of the most moving things I've ever seen. If you watch it be warned that you can hear Brad getting shot and crying out.

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gorbal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-31-06 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. There are allot of vids up on youtube about him
Including some heatwarming clips of him singing at a coffee shop and a funny sacastic clip called "I really love the cops"
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PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
3. Occupation is expensive
Even with the arrests and beatings will the barricades go up when the police go away? Will resistance change? There is no general headquarters to be taken, no leaders to surrender, just the general population who don't suffer the same limits as the professional paid forces and can bend to their temporary advantage.

How much of it appears on US news and how much of that accurate? One can guess so easily.

Now how would a democracy deprived people rise up against a fraudulent election here? Of course it would be reported if at all with "shock" and spin in the media. "Insurrectionists" partisan mob, poor losers, the terms degrading until more respect is granted by dint of persistence and numbers. As in Yugoslavia, the vulnerabilities are in the nation's strengths. Depriving the flow of world leading business, of communications, of energy would have a larger effect than throwing stones on the streets against Bush' Guard and terror weapons. The easiest way would be a strike or slowdown, barricading the highways where it hurts, not necessarily city streets only the poor live on. And since it is NOT planned or in the works or even in the tepid imagination of populist advocacy groups, it would happen rather spontaneously and spread organically- hopefully not toward the traditionally hopeless and destructive violent scenarios. And it would be strange because the history of large popular "uprisings" in this country is pretty spotty and untraditional, and our politics a mild sport sparking less passion than a football game for the general public.

The Soviet Union fell because of such spontaneous simplicity and the collapse of tired police state block-headed repetitiveness. Simply because the people push until they win.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #3
11. Well, I agree that resistance here, currently, is a different matter than
resistance in Mexico, or in the past. The Oaxacans know what their advantage is: NUMBERS. This is true also of the leftist (majorityist) movements that have successfully won political power and control of the government all over Latin America--in Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Venezuela, Uruguay, Bolivia and soon in Ecuador (and, next election cycle in Peru), and also in Nicaragua (where Daniel Ortega--leader of the Sandinistas--is about to be elected president). The majority wins by persistence, patience, attention to the levers of democratic power--such as transparent elections--and strong grass roots organization. The OAS, the Carter Center and EU election monitoring groups have helped with transparent elections in Latin America*, and ordinary citizens and NGOs have done the rest. Armed resistance and violence--understandable in the face of horrendously brutal US-backed dictators--has not been effective, and has wisely been abandoned. (It was effective only in Cuba, where a relatively benign government was set up, when compared to fascist dictatorships like those of Batista or Pinochet.)

"Simply because the people push until they win." Certainly true in Latin America. Not so sure of that phenomenon re the Soviet Union.

Anyway, I want to argue with your U.S. political analysis:

"The easiest way would be a strike or slowdown.... And since it is NOT planned or in the works or even in the tepid imagination of populist advocacy groups, it would happen rather spontaneously and spread organically- hopefully not toward the traditionally hopeless and destructive violent scenarios. And it would be strange because the history of large popular 'uprisings' in this country is pretty spotty and untraditional, and our politics a mild sport sparking less passion than a football game for the general public."

Not "in the tepid imagination of populist advocacy groups." Remember Seattle 1999. Organized by a vast array of populist advocacy groups, dead on effective as to shutting down the WTO (I have never seen a more effective civil disobedience action), but of course universally slandered by the corporate news monopolies and even by some so-called leftist publications. 50,000 people participated--labor unions, workers, every environmental group in the country, human rights groups, religious groups and many ordinary citizens. No wonder it had to be assaulted by Darth Vader police forces (a police riot--as later documented by city of Seattle hearings--the police chief was forced to resign), and vilified by the Corporate Rulers as some sort of riotous protest. I would never call our public advocacy groups "tepid." But I do think they were shocked by, a) the level of police violence (--and under a Democratic president!), and b) the level of corruption in our corporate news monopoly press. And now, of course, the magnitude of the fascists' power is much greater. So I think a lot of re-thinking and re-grouping has gone on. This bore fruit in Kerry's victory over Bush in 2004--but the fascists were way ahead of us, with their Diebold/ES&S coup. Kicked the breath out of that movement. Now we're seeing another, to take back Congress--and at least get back to square one on Constitutional government.

"...the history of large popular 'uprisings' in this country is pretty spotty and untraditional." On the contrary, our history is packed with well-organized, effective revolutionary uprisings, all of which were largely successful, starting with the first, the American Revolution itself, and including the anti-slavery movement, the labor movement, the women's rights movement, FDR's "New Deal," and the civil rights and antiwar movements of the 1960s. This is a "spotty" history only if you buy into the Corporate Rulers' version of it. We are a revolutionary country. And it's only a matter of time before that revolutionary tradition finds new expression in the present circumstances. The People are trying the electoral route one more time. We'll see what happens.

I think these Bushite electronic voting corporations that now control election results with TRADE SECRET, PROPRIETARY programming code--a coup that occurred during the 2002-2004 period--are going to back off a bit, in order to preserve their election theft capability for future purposes, and permit a Democratic majority in the House, but one that is greatly hampered by Bushite Democrats in its own ranks (hand-picked by the fascists in the primaries--the sort of Democrats who recently voted for torture and suspension of habeas corpus). And the main struggle is going to be within the Democratic Party itself, and possibly extended into a period of control of the White House by the Corporate Democrats (--an attempted return to "mere" Corporate Rule, a la Clinton), but this will not solve the problems created by the Bush Junta: a $10 TRILLION deficit, continued bleeding of jobs out of the country, an unbelievably bloated military budget, loss of civil rights, loss of voting rights, lawlessness in the executive branch, a new generation of crippled war veterans, ever dwindling middle class net income (ravaged by skyrocketing medical and education costs, and other costs of living, and credit card usury--with even their last asset, their homes, now dwindling in value), increasing desperation of the poor, and an incredibly ruinous and destabilizing gap between the rich and the poor.

We'll see if the fascists succeed in preserving their direct election theft capability. There is quite a movement against these voting machines. Half the voters in many places are now voting by Absentee Ballot--refusing to vote on the machines--in many places. Fascist power is also bolstered by other methods of election theft, and by the filth in the campaign contribution system, the corporate news monopoly lock on that money--the TV ads--and the filth of corporate lobbying in government, which has turned into direct corporate control of lawmaking. Restoring TRANSPARENT elections is just one step back toward democracy. Then we have to work on CLEAN elections, to start getting honest representatives of the majority in government.

I think that the Corporate Democrats--if they think they are going to benefit from the Bush Junta, in enhanced powers to enforce Corporate Rule, and in the gratitude of the nation as to pulling us back from outright fascism--are playing a devious game that is going to backfire. To repair the damage that the Bush Junta has inflicted, strong measures are needed, beyond impeachment of these criminals. Impeachment--gratifying as it would be--is even somewhat irrelevant. How do we get our money back? That is the main issue. The robbery of the public treasury, added to the robbery of the incomes of ordinary people (in so many ways), has been nation-destroying. Some measures I can think of are dismantling the oil giants, and a few other bad actor corporations, and seizing their assets for the common good; cutback of the military budget by, say, 90%, to a true defensive posture; large increases in Social Security payments and the minimum wage; and a huge government investment in alternative energy. Repeal of a few tax cuts for the super-rich is not going to do it. To recover from what this Junta has done, we need a "New Deal" of some kind, and leaders who are not afraid of the "robber barons." This tepid, so-called "centrist" Democratic Party line is one of the reasons that our country is in so much trouble. (Talk about TEPID--it's not the NGO's who are tepid--it's the Dem Party leadership!)

Anyway, we are headed for big trouble, especially economically--the kind of trouble they had in Argentina as a consequence of World Bank/IMF policy; in other words, the consequences of Corporate looting of government budgets, resources and the poor and middle class. WE are the "Banana Republic" now. And we need LEFTISTS--not "centrists"--in order to recover from it. But we are also the big, fat "golden goose" of the global corporate predators, so they have lavished our citizens with 24/7 brainwashing and stolen elections, by master illusionists. I think the American people are struggling mightily against the propaganda--and are trying desperately to think for themselves--but we are a unique country in many ways, unique from both the perspectives of how to gain fascist control over us, and how to organize resistance and revolution against it.

In Argentina, a coalition of the poor and middle class went round with tiny hammers and broke every bank ATM display window in the country--in protest against the banks and the corrupt rightwing government. Three governments later--in quick succession--they finally got a leftist government committed to throwing the World Bank/IMF out. With Venezuela's help, they got out from under World Bank debt, and are on the road to recovery, and to a healthy, growing, SELF-DETERMINED economy and society.

I don't know what it will take here. I just know that it isn't going to be easy. We are at the vortex of Corporate Rule, and are now among the victims of the Dark Powers of greed and violence that seek domination of all countries, all resources, all wealth, and all the peoples of the world. This is why it is so important that we take back our country, and why it is so difficult--why, for instance, an awesome protest like that in Seattle in 1999 was universally misrepresented and torpedoed out of public memory. But those forces, those ideas, those people, and their MAJORITY view of democratic process, good government, and protection of the environment and of human rights have not gone away, and were certainly not "tepid."

-----------------------------

*(--although they notably failed in Mexico's recent election.)
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PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-31-06 07:40 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. I stand corrected on some points
Edited on Tue Oct-31-06 07:43 AM by PATRICK
poorly expressed. I think the organizations and inadequacies are something we both know about and evaluate properly. The coalition for Seattle is a sign of hope but one model that should have followed through more organically toward building a coalition against GOP election "reform"(whatever the suicidal Dem passivity on the issue). That issue is deflected, the activists disparate and the media spins away more obtusely than the blank cameras in Seattle. Our points have been politely defined by the MSM. The top of American organization is rife with inadequacy practically everywhere. The activists are excellent in themselves, just not at the point of mounting the challenge to the system past movements have done. The various spoiled organizations I should never have labeled as "populist". I meant the traditional, overly established ones(or large parts)including the leftie magazines you mention, that serve the cause of denial and inertia, remote from the crisis, the people themselves or just part of the sucker syndrome. I blanket condemn the MSM and the "establishment" when it is much more complex. When sometimes the imprisonment of the actual 100 influential plutocrooks would send neo-fascism into a swift tailspin and allow the softness of American moderate and compromise to enjoy its discredited safety and respectability once more.

We do not have the necessary reaction form the party leadership, as a whole or as an entity. We have blue dogs ready to ruin the renewal of civil government and democracy and they don't know it. We will NOT have the opportunity to deliver the electoral blow the popular will, muddled though it may still be, would deliver were it simply not for gerrymandering. We do NOT have the overwhelming number of volunteers the people themselves should be moved to offer if only because people are over-worked and discouraged by mainstream lies, putting more effort into sustaining the diminishing, GOP ravaged, American way of life. We do NOT(visibly at least) have the agenda and leadership, the strongly unified coalitions, to represent the wave of necessary change even if all the Dems running in the lead are elected. The progressive contingent of new Reps will merely be a beginning. One good factor is that the MONEY Dems need in a system where the need for it can be reformed away from the corporations and into the realm of the fair and the rational(to Democrats' great advantage) is critically coming from the people, something they once wrote off as impossible in their drive to make peace with corporate wealth. The people have also opened a forum and counterpoint to the corporate media giving the whole truth a wide focus laser it never had before. The people have also revived the base floundering with declining union membership and discouraged minorities. The leadership riding this elevator may be bemused, but this force from below may get the job done- with better leadership coming up in the next wave.

The body politic is in slumbering forward motion- as a whole. THAT and the quality and passion of a new truly American democratic renaissance is, I hope, our irresistible force. It is not a bed of roses anywhere in the world where life and death populist struggles are immense- and long. Unfortunately our nation is too critical to the fate of the planet for more fun and games with unaccountable elites. Impatience is the volatile virtue that must be joined with persistence.

But getting back to outside-the-system street revolt, it seems that it may have to be commensurate with the personal misery factor of people of conscience and masses truly affected. In that America is no different than any other country except that lies and inertia, what people feel they have to lose, weighs so heavy against living up to our forebears and true democratic heroes- much less the alarming crises we have yet to be ALLOWED to come to grips outside the Coup. The best non-violent thing we could do is to educate the public in the fair and full truth, something when done from the streets if physically chaotic and "spotty". Modern media reforms and the safeguarded Internet give us heady alternatives- or aids- to street movements that are justly lauded for their partial results and particular triumphs of physical presence democracy. It is an advantage that must be swiftly, universally pressed and protected.

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
7. "One man died in the operation"? So this was f#ckin SURGERY?
How many really died?

How many have been disappeared?

They shut down the college and the radio station.

SHAME ON YOU, BBC.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
8. Gustavo Esteva reports on Democracy Now! that the peoplestill
control Oaxaca. :shrug:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
9. Protests organizing around the country:
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WHAT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
10. Protesting fraudulent election...
how and when did this morph into a teacher's strike???

:wtf:

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gorbal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-31-06 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. You can see his last video here
It is frightening at the end, so be carefull if you have a weak heart-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGmsSFMpb88

And here is a version with english subtitles

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUqKgvu4Q0k&watch_respon...
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-31-06 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Those get cut off before the tragic end.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGCL7ZxRHEU&mode=related... shows him being shot - it's terrible to watch the last few seconds, the camera frozen sideways on a bench as he lays dying, the sounds of gunfire all around.

Terrible. :cry:

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gorbal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-31-06 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. That's the one I saw. Harrowing
I was biting my fingers the entire time...you really feel like you are there.

I didn't know these others got cut off, I just posted them because they were the most popular and I wanted to encourage their popularity. :)
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