Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

AP: Many Follow U.S. Example On Detainees

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU
 
Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 09:58 PM
Original message
AP: Many Follow U.S. Example On Detainees
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/UN_TORTURE?SITE=...

Many Follow U.S. Example on Detainees

By NICK WADHAMS
Associated Press Writer

UNITED NATIONS (AP) -- Several governments around the world have tried to rebut criticism of how they handle detainees by claiming they are only following the U.S. example in the war on terror, the U.N. anti-torture chief said Monday.

Manfred Nowak, the U.N. special investigator on torture, said that when he criticizes governments for their questionable treatment of detainees, they respond by telling him that if the United States does something, it must be all right. He would not name any countries except for Jordan.

"The United States has been the pioneer, if you wish, of human rights and is a country that has a high reputation in the world," Nowak told a news conference. "Today, many other governments are kind of saying, 'But why are you criticizing us, we are not doing something different than what the United States is doing?'"

- snip -

The remarks were the latest in a tense back-and-forth between Nowak and the United States. He has been an outspoken critic of U.S. detainee policy, chastising the United States for maintaining secret prisons. He has also been skeptical about new legislation that would protect detainees from blatant abuse - such as rape and torture - but does not require automatic legal counsel and specifically bars detainees from protesting their detentions in federal courts.

- snip -

He has said the United States must close its Guantanamo Bay detention facility and refused an invitation to visit because he would not be allowed to interview detainees. Nowak has reported that reliable accounts indicate suspected terror detainees being held there have been tortured.

MORE
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 12:38 AM
Response to Original message
1. If it's good enuf for the US of A to do...
then it's good enuf for other nations to do...and to US citizens.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
John Gauger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. That's what we need to be afraid of.
NOw they are less afraid to do that to our citizens.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-25-06 03:26 AM
Response to Reply #1
16. AND YOU CAN GET AWAY WITH IT TOO



The US Military has never fixed blame for thiss Man's BEATING DEATH


The thugs who did this got a couple on months.

Their Officers who directed it received only promotions for a job "WELL DONE"



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 01:06 AM
Response to Original message
2. When the US gov't tortures another human, it tortures me
When it sends young people to war unprotected and won't let them come home, it does that to me

When it uses white phosphorus on Iraqi women and children, it uses it on me and my children

When it leaves families in New Orleans or Darfur or Fallujah to live in fear and despair, it does the same thing to my family

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
John Gauger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #2
9. That sounds like that Jesus feller-
I hear good things about him. No one ever has an ill word to say.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #2
11. But Al Gonzo says water boarding is now civilized b/c of the new law
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 08:10 AM
Response to Original message
3. See? We ARE still a relevant, world-leading nation
:bounce:

:(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
civildisoBDence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Oh Rose, that's wicked!
But right on target.

I teach public speaking, and lately several students have defended DUHbya's policies by citing national security.

What we gain in short-term national security, we lose in long-term national infamy.

Newsprism
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. You can say that again.
This note from a reserve soldier lays one element of that truth out plainly-

I was deployed in my reserve unit (USMCR) as part of operation Desert Storm and Desert Shield. Marine infantry, and we were on the front lines, supposedly to guard a gunship base, but really, though, the gunships guarded us.

Not too much later, it was time to take prisoners. One of the platoons went north, and when they came back, there were stories about how Iraqi soldiers lined the roads, trying to surrender. I spent a week guarding Iraqi men in a makeshift prison camp, a way-station really, and more than I could count. They didn't look like they were starving or dehydrated. Apparently, once the ground war began, they just pitched their weapons and headed south at first opportunity. The more I've thought about it, the more I realize that they knew bone deep that they'd get fair treatment. We gave them MREs (with the pork entree's removed) but almost immediately some Special Forces guys arrived and set up a real chow line for them. We gave each man a blanket, (I kept an extra as a souvie) and I think I saw a Special Forces doc giving some of them a once over.

Once, only once, one of them got all irritated and tried to get in one of the Corporal's faces, loud. (I was a lance-corporal). He wouldn't back down, so the Corporal gave him an adjustment, a rifle butt-stroke to his gut, not hard, but he went down. The Corporal sent me for the medic. The guy was ok, and now calm (or at least understanding the situation), and hand-signed that he was out of smokes and really, really needed one... Not a bad guy, just stressed-dumb and needing a smoke. None of the others prisoners in the camp even registered it.

We went north to mop up not long after that. I saw the Iraqi weapons: rocket launchers a little smaller than semi-trailers, hidden in buildings, AKs in piles, big Soviet mortars and anti-tank mines, everywhere but unarmed. They had food too. Pasteurized milk to drink, but most gone bad by then. Some of the mortar rounds were still in crates. They had long trenches that were hard to see in the dunes, bunkers with maps, fire-plans laid out, and blankets, all placed with decent vantage for command and control. They even had wire laid for land-line communications. The point is, they could have fought. Not won, no they couldn't have won, but they could have fought. Instead, they chose to surrender.

Looking back, I think that one of the main drivers in these men's heads was that they knew, absolutely, that they'd get fair treatment from us, the Americans. We were the good guys. The Iraqis on the line knew they had an out, they had hope, so they could just walk away. (A few did piss themselves when someone told them we were Marines. Go figure.) Still, they knew Americans would be fair, and we were.


Thinking hard on what I now know of history, psychology, and the meanness of politics, that reputation for fairness was damn near unique in world history. Can you tell me of any major military power that had it? Ever? France? No. Think Algeria. The UK? Sorry, Northern Ireland, the Boxer Rebellion in China... China or Russia. I don't think so. But America had it. If those men had even put up token resistance, some of us would not have come back. But they didn't even bother, and surrendered at least in part because of our reputation. Our two hundred year old reputation for being fair and humane and decent. All the way back to George Washington, and from President George H.W. Bush all the way down to a lance-corporal jarhead at the front.

Its gone now, even from me. I can't get past that image of the Iraqi, in the hood with the wires and I'm not what you'd call a sensitive type. You know the picture. And now we have a total bust-out in the White House, and a bunch of rubber-stamps in the House, trying to make it so that half-drowning people isn't torture. That hypothermia isn't torture. That degradation isn't torture. We don't have that reputation for fairness anymore. Just the opposite, I think. And the next real enemy we face will fight like only the cornered and desperate fight. How many Marines' lives will be lost in the war ahead just because of this asshole who never once risked anything for this country?

http://time.blogs.com/daily_dish/2006/09/what_weve_lost...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IWantAChange Donating Member (974 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. dead-on ........ A once proud nation reduced to
the level of those I once thought we opposed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
StraightDope Donating Member (716 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
5. Predictable...
Disgusting, but predictable.

I sincerely apologize to anyone who has been or will be harmed as a result of my government's example.

I no longer consider myself an American.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lcordero2 Donating Member (832 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
7. Sun Tzu's Art of War
"Treat the prisoners of war well, and care for them."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. Al Gonzo probably finds that 'quaint'
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
12. We used to be a beacon of light in the world.
The light's gone out.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
14. If you lie with dogs you get up with fleas.
And George Bush has more fleas than anybody.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-25-06 12:40 AM
Response to Original message
15. I am so proud .....
Hit it Lee Greenwood....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lindacooks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-25-06 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
17. Yep. George W. Bush: Lowering human rights standards all over the world.
Along with our standard of living, life expectancy, education, medical care, etc. etc. etc.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-25-06 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
18. lololololol
Sorry - but I love it when America's hypocrisy is thrown back in America's face.

I take great satisfaction in America's hype being used against us

Well, golly gee, Mister UN man, America is tells everyone that they are a country that cares about human rights - America likes to boast how they care about the rights and life of others - America likes to talk about their principles and their laws - and so if we do anything they do, we can't be wrong, can we?

lolololol



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nealmhughes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-25-06 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
19. Evidently they got the memo: Voltaire and the Enlightenment are dead.
Kristol wrote it for BushCo, did everyone else not get it? Might makes right. By all means necessary?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sat Aug 30th 2014, 05:42 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC