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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 10:18 AM
Original message
Active-Duty Troops Launch Campaign to Press Congress to End U.S. Occupati
http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=74796


Active-Duty Troops Launch Campaign to Press Congress to End U.S. Occupation of Iraq

65 Members to Send "Appeals for Redress" Under the Military Whistle-blower Protection Act

10/23/2006 9:58:00 AM

To: Assignment Desk, Daybook Editor

Contact: Trevor Fitzgibbon, 202-246-5303, or Alex Howe, or Laura Gross, 202-822-5200, for Fenton Communications

News Advisory:

For the first time since the U.S. invasion of Iraq, active- duty members of the military are asking Members of Congress to end the U.S. occupation of Iraq and bring American soldiers home.

Sixty-five active-duty members have sent Appeals for Redress to Members of Congress. Three of these people (including two who served in Iraq) and their attorney will speak about this on Wednesday, Oct. 25 at 11 a.m. EDT.

Under the Military Whistle-Blower Protection Act (DOD directive 7050.6), active-duty military, National Guard and Reservists can file and send a protected communication to a Member of Congress regarding any subject without reprisal.

What: Three active-duty members of the military and their lawyer, a retired U.S. Marine Corps JAG, make comments and take questions from the media.

When: Wednesday, Oct. 25, 11 a.m. EDT

Conference Call Details: 800-362-0574, Conference ID: "Active Duty"

http://www.usnewswire.com/
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
1. Wow! It's Happening!
The military has turned on the CinC! About time, guys! We need you in the Movement.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #1
24. "something happenin".
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #24
40. Hear, hear!!!
What it is, IS EXACTLY CLEAR!!! :toast: Rodeodance, I've been waiting for this moment for YEARS!
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katty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #24
52. the times they are a changin'...
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 03:40 AM
Response to Reply #52
73. "STAY THE COURSE" shouted the AWOL CHIMPANZEE
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #1
36. That revocation of our Bill of Rights on the 17th?
I think it was just a junta attempt to turn back people who were saying: No sir! I will not follow that illegal order!

Think back to bush's argument of the 'need for clarity for the young INTEL officer...'

Think back to how extremely worked up bush was. Somebody told the frat brat NO! and he was gonna get even with them and force them to capitulate to his whims. The big, spoiled baby used the United States Congress and shredded the Bill of Rights to get the stick with which to force his whims on brave and righteous patriots who risk their lives in service to our nation.

There has been lots of refusals of orders, betcha dollars to donuts!
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Caution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
2. This will only work if it creates a wave of active duty personel joining
the suit. 65 simply won't be enough to do anything other than get some press for a day or two.
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ellenfl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. media exposure . . . this is a job for olber-man! eom
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. lets all ask him to cover it.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #2
11. It's a start. Imagine if their bosses added to the mix. I can dream. nt
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bluerum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #2
37. One more chink in the chain C. One more chink in the chain. nt
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lumpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
58. Wouldn't it be wonderful and ironic if it
legal action from the military managed to get us out of Iraq. If all the retired miltary personel backed such a plan it just might work. History might just repeat itself, after all it was the military that turned the tide against Roman rule.
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ellenfl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
3. k&r eom
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SaveOurDemocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
5. Courageous...

I applaud them.
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #5
18. Yes they are! Hats off to thr true bravehearts!
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democrank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
6. A ray of hope.
Thanks for the info.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
7. Fascinating...I did some quick research on this matter
http://www.appealforredress.org/index.php

An Appeal for Redress from the War in Iraq
Many active duty, reserve, and guard service members are concerned about the war in Iraq and support the withdrawal of U.S. troops. The Appeal for Redress provides a way in which individual service members can appeal to their Congressional Representative and US Senators to urge an end to the U.S. military occupation. The Appeal messages will be delivered to members of Congress at the time of the Martin Luther King, Jr. Day in January 2007.

The wording of the Appeal for Redress is short and simple. It is patriotic and respectful in tone.

As a patriotic American proud to serve the nation in uniform, I respectfully urge my political leaders in Congress to support the prompt withdrawal of all American military forces and bases from Iraq . Staying in Iraq will not work and is not worth the price. It is time for U.S. troops to come home.

If you agree with this message, click here.

The Appeal for Redress is sponsored by active duty service members based in the Norfolk area and by a sponsoring committee of veterans and military family members. The Sponsoring committee consists of Iraq Veterans Against the War, Veterans For Peace, and Military Families Speak Out....

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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #7
15. "...withdrawal of all forces and BASES from Iraq." (emphasis added)
Good point!
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #7
25. I wonder if soldiers have access to this site?
It is fascinating that it's even out there! :thumbsup:
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mithnanthy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
8. I just saw the report of this on MSNBC...
with Whora 'Donnell and analyst Dan Goure. He was OUTRAGEOUS with his comments against these brave troops and he defended the "pledge" they took, not to speak out publically about the President's policies, INSTEAD of COMMENDING THEM for their Patriotism in trying to save lives! These troops speaking out are ON THE GROUND in Iraq and KNOW how BAD the situation is. I fired off a letter to MSNBC demanding Dan Goure be FIRED for his treasonous remarks and for enabling this corrupt Administration. Feel free to also fire off a letter of outrage to MSNBC. ...I'm so pissed.
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pacalo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #8
26. This misadventure in Iraq created many firsts...
Their "commander-in-chief" took a pledge, too, to uphold the Constitution, & Goure has a lot of nerve defending a leader who doesn't follow the rules. It takes courage for these troops to stand up to a punitive tyrant who believes he is above the law, with no checks & balances. Bush, who couldn't answer a journalist's questions correctly about the names of foreign leaders in a 1999 tv interview, is an incompetent leader who has never been in these soldiers' shoes.
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #26
39. Well said!! "Their 'commander-in-chief' took a pledge, too ..."
:patriot:
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pacalo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #39
54. TY, Straight Shooter.
:hi:
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #54
60. You're welcome, 8YN.
We need more people who can clearly rebut the lies and garbage that get spewed every day, and be able to do that in short but memorable phrases.

:hi:
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pacalo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #60
61. We sure do! (I just got lucky & struck a chord with you.)
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #8
62. Well then-- let's just send those two warmongering chickenhawks
as a replacement for two troops who have **already served more than their fair share of tours**---- RIGHT NOW. Let's put them on a plane and their money where their mouths are.
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arewenotdemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #62
66. excellent idea
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Ouabache Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #62
71. Hell, send JENNA, she has time to whore around in Paraguay
let her check out Iraq too.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
9. i am waiting to hear the First Repug call these troops unpatriotic!
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
12. good TACTIC-letting the media get reved up till Wed.
What: Three active-duty members of the military and their lawyer, a retired U.S. Marine Corps JAG, make comments and take questions from the media.

When: Wednesday, Oct. 25, 11 a.m. EDT

Conference Call Details: 800-362-0574, Conference ID: "Active Duty"
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
13. Anybody know any precedents? I don't. I can't recall active duty ever
doing this, and my memory goes way back through Vietnam. In fact, I wasn't even familiar with DoD whistleblower law for active duty military.

To tell you the truth, my first thought on reading this was Bush's "unitary executive" signing statements, and how he and Rumsfeld can get at these courageous soldiers anyway--and also the pasty-faced, cowardly Bush "pod people" in Congress who would--and do- throw soldiers to the wolves. The Bush Junta has no respect for the law. They are a bunch of lying, murdering, thieving, lawless dirtbags. They would just as soon kill real courage and honesty as look at it. They DEMOTE the honest!

Well, all the more credit to the soldiers who are defying them. They must know that, with this gang, there is no real protection in the law.

I say again, we, the people, need to create our own special Medal of Courage In The Face Of The Enemy Within--for all those with careers and lives to lose, who stood up to these criminals.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. DUer atreides1 looked up DOD directive 7050.6:
From this thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

45. Here's what the DOD Directive 7050.6 says

4. POLICY

It is DoD policy that:

4.1. Members of the Armed Forces shall be free to make
a protected communication to:

4.1.1. A Member of Congress.

4.1.2. An IG.

4.1.3. A member of a DoD audit, inspection, investigation,
or law enforcement organization; or

4.1.4. Any other person or organization (including
any person or organization in the chain of command)
designated under Component regulations or other established
administrative procedures to receive such communications.

4.2. No person shall restrict a member of the Armed
Forces from making a protected communication.

4.3. Members of the Armed Forces shall be free from
reprisal for making or preparing a protected communication.

4.4. No person may take or threaten to take an unfavorable
personnel action, or withhold or threaten to withhold
a favorable personnel action, in reprisal against any
member of the Armed Forces for making or preparing a
protected communication.

4.5. Any violation of paragraph 4.4., above, by a person
subject to Chapter 47 of 10 U.S.C. (the Uniform Code
of Military Justice, reference (b)), is punishable as
a violation of Section 892 of 10 U.S.C. (Article 92
of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, "Failure to
obey order or regulation"). Civilian employees of
the Department of Defense who violate paragraph 4.4.,
above, shall be subject to disciplinary or adverse action
for misconduct pursuant to Chapter 75 of 5 U.S.C. (reference
(d)).

4.5.1. The Secretaries of the Military Departments
shall issue regulations making punishable any violation
of the provision set forth in paragraph 4.4., above,
by a person subject to Chapter 47 of 10 U.S.C. (reference
(b)).

4.5.2. The Secretaries of the Military Departments
shall ensure that any violation of the provision set
forth in paragraph 4.4., above, by civilian employees
under their respective jurisdictions are punishable
under regulations governing civilian employee disciplinary
or adverse actions.

Anyone trying to retaliate against these troops, either military or civilian can be charged with misconduct.

These troops just have to make sure that their congressman are not Repukes or Dems who have a history of agreeing with this administration!
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #14
34. I know a little about this, and it's good those gripers have a lawyer
When a military member writes to Congress, here's how the letter is usually handled.

The letter arrives in the Congressman's office. A copy is made, and it's logged in.

IF the content is a 'standard military gripe' or anything to do with the military at all (if it's a complaint about something OTHER than military, this won't happen) it's sent to the Office of Legislative Affairs, and assigned to the appropriate Service Representative.

The Service Representative puts the letter on a tickler sheet (they make a copy for themselves, too) and sends it off to the appropriate military Chief of Staff/CNO/Commandant's office.

THEY make a copy, and forward the thing to the appropriate division to answer the gripe.

For example, if it's someone complaining about the Army barracks, it will go either to the Corps of Engineers if it is a structural issue, or to the Logistics guys if it's a maintenance issue. Frequently, the CO of the kid will get a COPY of the letter faxed to him/her for input as well. So much for "confidential" communications!

Some poor overworked asshole in a cubicle, working for a General or Flag officer, is assigned to draft a response to the letter. Everyone and their mother gets a chop on the thing, it's rewritten five or ten times. It has to be written politely, but nine times out of ten the content of the letter is something along the lines of "You're wrong" or "You're expecting too much" or "Resources are limited and everyone must do their part" and always concludes with "Thank you for your service" or words to that effect. In essence, it's "Fuck you very much," by and large. It's a rare day that change actually comes from these letters--it does happen every so often, but not as a rule.

Once everyone has had a chance to "pee on the tree" (slang for change the letter, requiring it to be reprinted a dozen times or more) it gets sent back the way it came, with a handy disk (or as an attachment, thanks to these here INTRAnets!!! when doing it sans paper!). On the way back up the chain, the letter is peed on again, until it finally arrives back at OLA, where they check the spelling and grammar (they rarely change anything unless they spot a grievous mistake, because it's coming, usually, from the top dog's shop at the Pentagon at this point) and send the thing off to the Congressman for his signature.

Yep, you got it--the Congress doesn't write their own letters to their military constituents. They let the PENTAGON do it for them.

That's why the lawyer is so important. If you want protected communications, you have to know specifically how letters are ordinarily handled, and that you DON'T want OLA directing traffic with regard to the response you are gonna get. Ergo, you have to specifically REQUEST that your communication be protected.

Some Congresspersons have "military assistants" who actually know what they are doing (often retired or former service personnel), who have had DC experience and know who to call to get answers without screwing around. They're generally more savvy and can look at a letter and know that they'll just get shit from OLA, so they will do a two-track effort--send the letter down to OLA for the military version, but continue to research it and call bullshit if they get back a lousy answer. Unfortunately, though, not all Congresspersons have someone like this in their offices, and as a result many complaints just get swept under the rug, or are answered with a non-answer.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #34
38. 'answered with a non-answer'. That's been my total experience
in TX when trying to communicate with the senators here.
Thanks for clarifying (I think!). I would imagine this issue has more gravity than others (structural, logistics) and I have to admire the timing.
I wonder how long this process took, and really wonder which Congressperson is involved. I guess we'll be finding out.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #38
43. Most servicemembers don't know straight up to ask for protected
communications, even if they have something truly important to communicate. And a LOT of the letters ARE whines that shouldn't end up in Congress at all, along the lines of these:

The barracks is too hot/cold/loud/crowded/in poor repair. I was assigned a lousy roommate. I flunked an inspection and am being picked on.

The food in the mess hall stinks. I have special dietary needs that aren't met (this, by and large, is bullshit--unless you're deployed, if they can't satisfy you because of genuine medical or religious reasons, they'll give you COMRATS--money instead of a chow pass).

I got an unfair military evaluation. I was only AWOL twice and they marked me down for it. I got nonjudicial punishment and broke restriction, but I had a good excuse (pull sick relative or some other tearjerking situation out of ass). I only failed two of ten inspections, too. It's because I am (insert minority status here--if very obscure, extra points!) and am being discriminated against. Triple points for misspellings combined with extremely faulty logic!

So-and-so of the same paygrade makes more than me--unfair!! (So-and-so is from a state with no state tax withholding....)

I THINK (insert infraction of rules) is going on at my base involving (insert names of alleged offenders). These are often accompanied by absolutely no specifics or proof, and they have to be shoved off to OSI/NCIS.

The EVER POPULAR I hate my boss, I want a transfer and they won't give it to me (insert limp excuse here, the sick relative is a classic--don't mention that you already applied for a Humanitarian Transfer and were shot down...twice).

The runner up in this category is: I got a shitty set of orders and I want YOU to intervene to change them (too bad, so sad).


When the bulk of the mail is along those lines, you get busy aides who don't even bother to read the letters--they see it comes from an FPO/APO and off it goes to OLA. If your Senator or Representative serves on the Armed Services Committee, they tend to have a military aide who takes more interest in these missives, but if they don't have one, or the Congressperson has no interest in military issues (no bases in the district, no Pentagon cash cows or procurement pork to be had) if the letter has anything to do with things military, it's shuffled off to OLA, and when it comes back they often shove it in the auto pen--the congressperson never even sees it.


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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #13
20. I don't remember ever hearing about this during Vietnam but
I've heard suggestions over the years that there was a lot of opposition in the ranks that was very thoroughly covered up.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #20
35. "Front Towards Enemy!!!!!!"
Edited on Mon Oct-23-06 11:46 AM by MADem




Many a dorky junior officer who bought the bullshit and wanted to be a Vietnam hero came out of his hooch and saw a Claymore with this written on it pointed at him....
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reprobate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #13
57. In the past, troops took direct action.

It's called fragging.

Unfortunately it is by nature limited to junior officers.

I'm not aware of any action by the troops against constitutional officers, and that's what's needed now.

I've had a dream that involved the JCS demanding the resignation of Bush-Cheney because they were ordered to fire on crowds protesting their actions. In my dream the JCS refused the order (just like the Russian troops refused the same order during the start of the Russian revolution.) I've had the continuing feeling that we would face some kind of a military coup or forced regime change by the military ever since the purges in the Pentagon before the start of the Irag war.

The destruction of our military is what happens I guess when you have inexperienced draft dodgers in charge of the government.

God help the United States of America.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #13
59. He Can't Arrest All Of Them
and if arrest means a soldier getting the hell out of the Middle East, well, then....
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
16. Sent to KO in case he lives in a cave. :o) nt
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JudyM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #16
31. MSNBC is reporting on this now, so we're probably set. n/t
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. I know, that's where I first heard it. But
I sent it to my husband, sisters, and threw KO in there, too. :)
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
17. A crack in the armor that protects the potential military state
This could be just enough of a crack to keep the bu$h regime from turning America into a military state.
Hopefully it will inspire other troops from joining them and create the momentum for the military to stand up against tyranny.
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young_at_heart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
19. "They're fighting over there so we don't fight here"......will this fade?
On our local ABC station the anchor recently said that many people were joining the Army to "fight for our freedom"...of course, this is a Sinclair station. When will ALL of the country finally wake up about this "fighting for our freedom" bs?
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
21. Applauding
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. I raise a glass to these brave troops!! (well-tonight i will)
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 11:11 AM
Response to Original message
23. excellent.
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
27. Finally! I've been waiting for this.
This will get some attention. Talk about supporting the troops.

But I'm afraid Little Boy Bush is ready to fire Rumsfeld and cut and run anyways.

But it give us some ammo to go after him. Even the troops know.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #27
42. He, being the FLIP FLOPPER that HE IS!
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Boneman Donating Member (70 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
28. Totally excellent!!
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Stand and Fight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
29. Recommended... I signed as well as a veteran as of 2004. n/t
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
30. Right On! I hope others follow!
:bounce:
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
33. rays of hope...
In his speech "Beyond Vietnam"...MLKJr. said...
Perhaps a new spirit is rising among us. If it is, let us trace its movements, and pray that our own inner being may be sensitive to its guidance, for we are deeply in need of a new way beyond the darkness that seems so close around us.
http://www.mlkonline.net/
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
41. It has STARTED!!!!!1 n/t
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
44. wow.
It is pretty terrible that these soldiers feel the need to take this step. For some reason I am not confident this will change public opinion or the opinion of Congress though.
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Ladydawnelle Donating Member (122 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. If we keep it in the headlines it will surely sway many!
I've posted this at ALL my other venues on the blog and have sent it to Keith.

If we keep it going............... it will stay fresh. jmo!

And I think it's about DAMN time! (and I'm a Vet)
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
46. And in 30 years, the RW will brand them as traitors...or in 30 minutes
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #46
56. 30 minutes more likely
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 03:36 AM
Response to Reply #56
72. Minutes? Try seconds.
Those chickenhawk fascists can't stand to see real heroism like this, it reminds them deep down of how worthless their contributions to human society have been. Selfish and diseased.

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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
47. True Patriots. Just like the millions around the world
who took to the streets in 2003 before this debacle happened.

And like those millions in 2003, these 65 brave men and women will be met with a Texas smirk and yet another "pfffffffffffft. I'm the decider, damn it." They'll also be met with Repuke vilification, most likely from O Lielly.

And he'll be a gigantic floppy penis and call future retirees back to the front lines.
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allisonthegreat Donating Member (586 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
48. Horray..Cheers!! , all righty then n/t
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NOLADEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
49. In other news, Gitmo begins construction on a new wing
Bush issues new signing statement overriding DOD Directive 7050.6.

Problem solved.

:puke:
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cui bono Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
50. This is why Pelosi says no impeachment, we're going to have a MILITARY COUP!!!
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #50
55. Well, thats going a little overboard.
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katty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
51. Yes!!!
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civildisoBDence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
53. "No reprisals"??? I'm skeptical.
Would being promoted to the bomb squad in Tikrit be considered a reprisal?

Newsprism
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
63. Wow. Just wow.
:wow:
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
64. In 1917 the Russian army threw down their arms and returned home
The evil Tsar was toppled shortly thereafter.
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
65. Taking a cue from the Brits
(maybe)
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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #65
67. My nerves are shot, soldier wrote
My nerves are shot, soldier wrote
By Michael Evans

A SOLDIER serving in Helmand province in southern Afghanistan has written home claiming that he has lost confidence in what were doing and how were going about it.

In one letter, released by a close relative, the soldier, who has not been identified, said that during an operation in Nowzad, an outlying district centre in northern Helmand, his unit nearly ran out of ammunition after persistent attacks by the Taleban.

Ive been in this place for nine weeks now and its doing my head in, he wrote.

He added that his nerves were shot from being constantly fired at by the Taleban.

The serviceman, whose family lives in the Midlands, claimed that his unit was also running out of food and water and that morale was at rock bottom.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,17129-2417229,0...
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #67
68. They won't take this for much longer
and why should they?
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
69. This follows a poll last summer that showed 75% of troops in Iraq wanted out in one year
There has also been a wave of letter writing to Stars & Stripes by active duty protesting the conduct and continuation of this war.

This is like Vietnam all over again. The very thing Powell and some of the other brass warned Bush and Rummy about 3 years ago. Discipline within the Army is coming apart.

This war is over.
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #69
70. I remember that! (March 2006-- link)
Edited on Tue Oct-24-06 12:01 AM by chill_wind
http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article...


And then along came the immediate chickenhawk bullsh**..........



Rep. Joe Wilson, R-S.C. and chairman of the Victory in Iraq Caucus, a group of 118 Republican lawmakers, said the poll does not diminish his opinion of the importance of the armed forces role in Iraq.

Whatever the percentages are, I know 100 percent of our troops want to complete their mission over there, he said. My view is, whatever the poll results say, the bottom line is these are troops who will continue their mission, because they would rather fight the enemy overseas than at home.

Of those surveyed, 75 percent have served multiple tours in Iraq, 63 percent were under 30 years old, and 75 percent were male.

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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 03:45 AM
Response to Original message
74. I do believe this is a coup???
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 03:47 AM
Response to Original message
75. we will see if the Military whistle blower law is better than the civilian!



...Sixty-five active-duty members have sent Appeals for Redress to Members of Congress. Three of these people (including two who served in Iraq) and their attorney will speak about this on Wednesday, Oct. 25 at 11 a.m. EDT.

Under the Military Whistle-Blower Protection Act (DOD directive 7050.6), active-duty military, National Guard and Reservists can file and send a protected communication to a Member of Congress regarding any subject without reprisal.
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Shipwack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 08:21 AM
Response to Original message
76. These soldiers are -so- screwed...
Yes, I know theoretically that they are allowed redress, but their chain of command is not going to let a powerful image like this go unanswered and unpunished.

The Department of Defense will use the justification that the redress procedures aren't supposed to be used like this. They'll say that the soldiers didn't properly utilize their chain of command to get redress first. They'll probably even throw in that the soldiers are disobeying a lawful order, since there is probably some directive somewhere forbidding addressing the public and press without approval of the Public Affairs Officer.

Not that they shouldn't do this, but their asses are in no way covered. I foresee claims that they are in violation of the following articles of the Uniform Code of Military Justice:

I see them being prosecuted under UCMJ articles:

81 (conspiracy),
82 (solicitation),
88 (Contempt Toward Officials),
89 (Contempt Toward a Superior Commissioned Officer),
90 (Willfully Disobeying a Superior Commissioned Officer),
91 (Insubordinate Conduct),
92 (failure to obey a lawful order or regulation),
94 (mutiny or sedition),
99 (misbehavior before the enemy),
104 (Aiding the enemy),
107 (False Statements),
116 (Riot or breach of the Peace),
117 (Provoking speech or gestures),
131 (perjury),
and for any officers,
133 (Conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman).

Last, but not least, is Article 134, "The General Article". "Though not specifically mentioned in this chapter, all disorders and neglects to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces, all conduct of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces, and crimes and offenses not capital, of which persons subject to this chapter may be guilty, shall be taken cognizance of by a general, special or summary court-martial, according to the nature and degree of the offense, and shall be punished at the discretion of that court." In other words, "just because there isn't a rule against it, if we don't like what you did we'll prosecute you anyway"

Not saying these were valid, but this is the kind of pressure they could apply. In my 20 years of service, the gulf between what is right, and what is done by vindictive officers is vast, and the house holds the hole cards.
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