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Army chief declares war on Blair: 'We must quit Iraq soon'

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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 04:06 PM
Original message
Army chief declares war on Blair: 'We must quit Iraq soon'
Edited on Thu Oct-12-06 04:37 PM by muriel_volestrangler
The head of the Army is calling for British troops to withdraw from Iraq "soon" or risk catastophic consequences for both Iraq and British society.
...
He lambasts Tony Blair's desire to forge a "liberal democracy" in Iraq as a "naive" failure and he warns that "whatever consent we may have had in the first place" from the Iraqi people "has largely turned to intolerance."
...
As a foreigner, you can be welcomed by being invited in a country, but we werent invited certainly by those in Iraq at the time.

"The military campaign we fought in 2003 effectively kicked the door in. Whatever consent we may have had in the first place, may have turned to tolerance and has largely turned to intolerance."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/new...
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Webster Green Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. Duh!......Man, these folks are really brilliant!
They should have come to DU years ago, for their intelligence. We could have saved them a lot of time, money, and lives.
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Henny Penny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
2. Absolutely amazing... hearing the truth from someone in his position...
can't wait to hear poodle's response!
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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I can tell you what Blair *wants* to say
OFF WITH HIS HEAD! :rofl:
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Moderator DU Moderator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
4. Kick
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many a good man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
5. General seeks UK withdrawal
The head of the British Army has said the presence of UK armed forces in Iraq "exacerbates the security problems".




In an interview in the Daily Mail, Sir Richard Dannatt, Chief of the General Staff, is quoted as saying the British should "get out some time soon".

~snip

He said the new head of British army was "effectively saying we are making the situation worse in Iraq and worse for ourselves around the world by being in Iraq".

The comments "directly contradicted so much of what the government had said", our correspondent added.

Sir Richard might be issuing a "very public warning" to the next prime minister, he said.

In his interview, Sir Richard added that any initial tolerance "has largely turned to intolerance. That is a fact."


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6046332.stm
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Well, well, well...
What say you, Poodle Boy?
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many a good man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
7. Army chief calls for Iraq withdrawal



11.25, Thu Oct 12 2006

The head of the British army has said UK troops in Iraq are acting as a catalyst to violence and should be withdrawn soon.

General Sir Richard Dannatt said British troops should get out "sometime soon because our presence exacerbates the security problems".

Gen Dannatt, who became Chief of the General Staff in August, told a newspaper: "We are in a Muslim country and Muslims' views of foreigners in their country are quite clear.

"As a foreigner, you can be welcomed by being invited in a country, but we weren't invited certainly by those in Iraq at the time.


http://www.itv.com/news/index_9a46a6c4a9423fadb3b261fbc...
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
8. I just read something today that the Iraq government
wants us to stay ( because their police and soldiers are so infiltrated by terrorists). what a F-----g mess
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evermind Donating Member (833 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
9. This is a pretty staggering story
I can't remember, and I'd be amazed if anyone else here could remember hearing such a forthright condemnation of the elected government's use of the military coming from the head of one of the armed forces in Britain.

The BBC (presumably along with most of the rest of the British media) is now covering it:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6046332.stm

BBC political editor Nick Robinson described Sir Richard's remarks as "quite extraordinary".

He said the new head of British army was "effectively saying we are making the situation worse in Iraq and worse for ourselves around the world by being in Iraq".

The comments "directly contradicted so much of what the government had said", our correspondent added.

Sir Richard might be issuing a "very public warning" to the next prime minister, he said


This sudden apparent outbreak of sanity at the top of the British Army's power structure is encouraging! What next, I wonder? A military coup to remove Blair? One can always hope! ;-)
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. Now, if only the US would follow their lead....
Actually, I am hopeful that they will.
BHN
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TheCowsCameHome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
10. The chimpanzee will be upset, but who cares what he thinks.
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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
11. Isn't he afraid he'll be fired like Shinseki? Oh wait, this is
the British Army chief. They actually stop, look, and listen instead of invade, kill, and swig gin.
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evermind Donating Member (833 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Really, as far as I remember, the policy has been
to do whatever they're told, and hide (at least from the general public) any disagreements they might have with government policy.

Historians here may be able to correct me (please!) if I'm wrong, but I can't remember anything like this from the Falklands up to the present.
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THX1138 Donating Member (276 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
13. NBC
Reported on this during their newscast. This story may have legs.

Print version here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15240385/
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. Front page of the BBC
http://news.bbc.co.uk /

This stories got tentacles too.

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tuvor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
14. Kicking and recommending.
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TheCowsCameHome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 08:31 PM
Response to Original message
16. This is the beginning of the end. This is going to be BIG.
The house of cards is crumbling.
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SlavesandBulldozers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. amen. this is huge. I'm not even gonna say Hugh!!!
im stifling my cynicism cause this is serious.
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TheCowsCameHome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. You bet. The genie is out of the bottle this time.
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TheBaldyMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 08:32 PM
Response to Original message
17. It is very difficult for any serving British service member to speak out
Edited on Thu Oct-12-06 08:34 PM by TheBaldyMan
there is a deeply ingrained culture of subordination to the civil authority.

If serving members of the armed forces are speaking out it means that doubts about the 'mission' have not only a strong basis in fact but have been festering for some time.

My guess is that the forces knew before we went into Afghanistan (late 2001) that it was fraught with difficulty. As soon as heavy handed tactics started, the appraisal changed to 'doomed to failure'. The situation was made far worse with the subsequent invasion of Iraq. This was OK'ed by Downing St. against all military advice.

The government in Britain has repeatedly put service members' lives in a poor second place to short-term political expediency.
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T_i_B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-14-06 03:18 AM
Response to Reply #17
33. It's interesting to note in the interview
Edited on Sat Oct-14-06 03:19 AM by Thankfully_in_Britai
That he does make a diffference between Iraq and Afghanistan, which of course is where our soldiers are most heavily engaged. First off

"Iraq may be an unpopular war now and Afghanistan may be a misunderstood war," he says, "but the soldiers, sailors and airmen who are conducting those operations are doing their duty to their best ability. And I hope the British people never forget that our soldiers are doing what the Government requires them to do."

Note that while Iraq is "unpopular" Afghanistan is only "misunderstood". Secondly

"Sir Richard's lead in shining a light on the Armed Forces extends to the mission in Iraq. He says with great clarity and honesty that "our presence exacerbates the security problems". "I think history will show that the planning for what happened after the initial successful war-fighting phase was poor, probably based more on optimism than sound planning.

Sir Richard adds, strongly, that we should "get ourselves out sometime soon because our presence exacerbates the security problems". "We are in a Muslim country and Muslims' views of foreigners in their country are quite clear. "As a foreigner, you can be welcomed by being invited into a country, but we weren't invited, certainly by those in Iraq at the time. Let's face it, the military campaign we fought in 2003 effectively kicked the door in.


The article does make it faily clear at this point that he's talking about Iraq rather then Afgahnistan. And then we come to Afghanistan itself

"He contrasts this with the situation in Afghanistan, where we remain at the invitation of President Hamid Karzai's government.

"There is a clear distinction between our status and position in Iraq and in Afghanistan, which is why I have much more optimism that we can get it right in Afghanistan."


Reading the article, it's clear that the General does view the Afghan conflict rather differently, and more positvely then the conflict in Iraq. I happen to agree with it wholeheartedly. The question is, should a top military officer have come out with this as it's generally for the better for the military not to play politics.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/new...
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SlavesandBulldozers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 08:33 PM
Response to Original message
18. Why does General Sir Richard Dannatt hate Britain?
I tell ya, you just cant get these Generals to support the troops nowadays. It's all cut-and-run with them, all the time.
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
22. Wow, that's big news
I think could be the beginning of the end for Blair and the poodle-policy. One can but hope.
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SlavesandBulldozers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
23. k n r
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SlavesandBulldozers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. this needs kicking. this needs to go to greatest.
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Amonester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
25. I know I would "turn intolerant" if foreign armed personel kicked...
my front door down at 3:00 AM, and began shooting at everybody moving without any warrant or even any justification whatsoever...

If I, a normal honest citizen, "always knew" that, why couldn't they??

Why all those needless deaths on all sides?? :grr:

GET OUT OF THEIR COUNTRY NOW!

Hope they'll get the 'message' anyway...
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 10:54 PM
Response to Original message
26. Brokeback Iraq...I can't quit youuuuuuuuuuuu!!!!! nt
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
27. Imprison Blair while you're at it.
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ThsMchneKilsFascists Donating Member (257 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
28. British army chief says Iraq pullout needed soon (CBC)
This is very surprising. This guy's only been in the job since August, so he's got a different perspective a.k.a. not trying to cover his a$$

(snip)
Gen. Sir Richard Dannatt, chief of the general staff, said the British military presence is exacerbating the security problems in Iraq, according to an interview with the Daily Mail published on their website Thursday.

"The military campaign we fought in 2003 effectively kicked the door in," said Gannett. "Whatever consent we may have had in the first place may have turned to tolerance and has largely turned to intolerance."

Gen. Sir Richard Dannatt said of Britain's deployment in Iraq: 'Whatever consent we may have had in the first place may have turned to tolerance and has largely turned to intolerance.' "I think history will show that the planning for what happened after the initial successful war fighting phase was poor, probably based more on optimism than sound planning," he added.

The public criticism from a serving military official is certain to cause a stir.

more
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2006/10/12/dannatt-blair....
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Clarkie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 12:42 AM
Response to Original message
29. K & R. This will change a lot of the political dynamic not only in GB. nt
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Stockholm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 02:31 AM
Response to Original message
30. "Head of Army"
K&R
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Chulanowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 04:54 AM
Response to Original message
31. A volunteer fighting force can only take so much of this.
A bullshit war started over a bullshit cause, with no forseeable end, that clearly instigates danger at home.
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oc2002 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 08:57 AM
Response to Original message
32. Why is Blair still in charge?

The Brits are in as bad a leadershit as we are.
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