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NY Sun: Baker's Panel Rules Out Iraq Victory

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grytpype Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 10:29 AM
Original message
NY Sun: Baker's Panel Rules Out Iraq Victory
Big, big leak from the Baker Commission. Baker wants Dub to give up on establishing democracy in Iraq, and either stabilize Baghdad by any means necessary or "cut and run."

Little Lord Pissypants is not going to like this!

WASHINGTON A commission formed to assess the Iraq war and recommend a new course has ruled out the prospect of victory for America, according to draft policy options shared with The New York Sun by commission officials.

Currently, the 10-member commission headed by a secretary of state for President George H.W. Bush, James Baker is considering two option papers, "Stability First" and "Redeploy and Contain," both of which rule out any prospect of making Iraq a stable democracy in the near term.

...

Instead, the commission is headed toward presenting President Bush with two clear policy choices that contradict his rhetoric of establishing democracy in Iraq. The more palatable of the two choices for the White House, "Stability First," argues that the military should focus on stabilizing Baghdad while the American Embassy should work toward political accommodation with insurgents. The goal of nurturing a democracy in Iraq is dropped.

...

The "Redeploy and Contain" option calls for the phased withdrawal of American soldiers from Iraq, though the working groups have yet to say when and where those troops will go. The document, read over the telephone to the Sun, says America should "make clear to allies and others that U.S. redeployment does not reduce determination to attack terrorists wherever they are." It also says America's top priority should be minimizing American casualties in Iraq.

(much more at article)


http://www.nysun.com/article/41371
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John Gauger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
1. Baker can leave Iraq
He's made his millions off of the war. His masters in Saudi Arabia want us out, so he wants us out.
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snooper2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
2. and since it is "politically sensitive...
It won't be released till after the election...
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
3. someone said Bush did not use the word Victory in his press conf. yest-
erday. (don't know for sure)-------but he also said he had not read Bakers report.

Co-incidence?
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
4. in other words-Bush knew when he gave the Press conf. yesterday.





.....But when Foley's friend saw the Congressman again this spring, something had changed. To the source's surprise, Foley told him he would indeed be standing for re-election. What happened? Karl Rove intervened.

According to the source, Foley said he was being pressured by "the White House and Rove gang," who insisted that Foley run. If he didn't, Foley was told, it might impact his lobbying career.

"He said, 'The White House made it very clear I have to run,'" explains Foley's friend, adding that Foley told him that the White House promised that if Foley served for two more years it would "enhance his success" as a lobbyist. "I said, 'I thought you wanted out of this?' And he said, 'I do, but they're scared of losing the House and the thought of two years of Congressional hearings, so I have two more years of duty.'"

The White House declined a request for comment on the matter, but obviously the plan hasn't worked out quite as Rove hoped it would.
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central scrutinizer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
5. but, but, but, what about Mission Accomplished!!!
Edited on Thu Oct-12-06 10:51 AM by central scrutinizer
I'm series!11!!

Maybe instead of Redeploy and Contain, they should just call it: FUBAR
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blitzen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #5
12. "Mission Un-Accomplished"
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #12
22. I beg your pardon!
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
6. "Redeploy and Contain"---hey Murtha-bush stole your strategy!
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #6
25. yep, that's MURTHA's plan--he gets Swiftboated for it--Baker gets Medal
of Freedom or something
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #6
28. MURTHA'S PLAN! NO BAKER'S! MURTHA'S PLAN!
And they challenged his patriotism!
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
7. "politically explosive topic "----so agreed NOT to releave till after Nov7


Because of the politically explosive topic of the Baker commission, the panel has agreed not to release its findings until after the November 7 elections. The commission, formally known as the Iraq Study Group, was created by Congress in legislation sponsored by Rep. Frank Wolf, a Republican of Virginia and close confidant of Mr. Bush's. Mr. Baker has said he will likely present the panel's findings in December.


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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. Baker won't let American people know until Dec? What's a few more thousan
d deaths and tens of thousands more maimed in Iraq? No big deal. :sarcasm:
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Felix Mala Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
8. I've always expected this -- the cheapest route was always to replace
Saddam with a newer, America-friendly Saddam. Real democracy costs big bucks that W's shareholders don't wish to spend.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. but we sure kicked out billions in taxpayers $$.
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. Halliburton, KBR, Blackwater & ExxonBigOil laughing all the way to bank
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grytpype Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. That WAS the plan!
Chalabi was supposed to take over, but it turns out he lied about how much support he actually had in Iraq (none). Then Sistani demanded one-person-one-vote elections, which is why we had elections at all in Iraq. Bush took credit for it of course.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
9. RECOMMEND
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MGKrebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
11. Still no mention of "consensus" or "summit" or "cooperation".
We are still acting unilaterally. Even this will leave a void which, without some planning and constructive actions, will just be largely filled by other opportunists with little care for much beyond their own power and wealth.

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grytpype Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
14. kick, please consider recommending
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
15. Hoo hoo, if this would get some media exposure then the
repubs would think the news about Foley was a good thing.

THE OLD MAN'S HATCHET GUYS KNOWS SONNY-BOY DONE LOST HIS WAR.

Wonder how Junior feels about this? He was so gung ho wanting to outdo Poopy. Poopy didn't lose his war.

What a friggin' joke.
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carzen Donating Member (112 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
18. This pretty much guarantees that shrub will ignore him
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grytpype Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. An earlier report said the recommendtions would be cleared with * first
But of course that doesn't mean he will actually listen.
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Amonester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #19
31. Depends on what barney and pickles say. - eom
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roamer65 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
20. How long b4 they put Saddam back in power?
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tothcarp Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 07:22 AM
Response to Reply #20
41. I always thought that he would come back
Our debacle in Iraq was mainly due do us firing and not paying
the forces in place, those being paid on time by Saddam. Now
who you gonna love....some prick who didn't pay you and shut
off your families electric and water???/OR.....A guy you know
can get the job done, AND hes got 31 Billion stashed. IMHO
there is a real loyalty thing here, and sooner or later he
will be cutting out tongues and turning the power back on. 
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
21. Protect Saigon versus Vietnamization
Our emperor is not going to like either of these choices.
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #21
29. Ain't that the truth?!!!
I am really steamed about how they gave John Murtha so much crap and now they plan to admit (after the election...the November Surprise) that everything he said was spot on and dare to take credit for it. :argh:
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. Well, it's out in the New York Sun - so why can't we help it out farther
BEFORE "after the election"?

Just, maybe, this ought to circulate out in the broad daylight a little more, yanno?
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #21
35. At least they have that fine new mansion/US embassy to drop the helicopter
ladders down to...it should make a beauteous picture!
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
23. I'd smirk
but for the seriousness of the matter
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greeneyedboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
24. so we spent $$$billions for what exactly? oh yeah, KBR & Bechtel etc.
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teryang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
26. euphemism for we're losing n/t
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
27. "...accommodation with insurgents?"
:wow:

Eat that Freepers. :rofl:


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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
30. Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Hadley & all get down and kiss Murtha's ass
Edited on Thu Oct-12-06 09:13 PM by David Zephyr
Kiss his ass.
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Akoto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
32. Bush: "I don't believe in statistifyin'. Heheh."
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Porcupine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
34. Thus the rise of John "Death Squad" Negroponte. nt
.
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 09:46 AM
Response to Original message
36. I just sent this to Keith Olbermann.
You can, too...

Keith Olbermann <kolbermann@msnbc.com >, <countdown@msnbc.com >
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
37. In other words: "We lost yet another war"
Doesn't that suck? Perhaps someone should be held accountable for dragging us into a no-win situation.

Perhaps the families of the 2700 servicemembers who died in it.

Now that winning is no longer an option, how can it be justified to sacrifice any more lives?

What a clusterfuck.
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Oak2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #37
38. Bush is going for an American record:
Losing *two* wars during the same presidency: Afghanistan is going to hell in a handbasket, too.

My biggest concern is that, given Washington's multifaceted intransigence, we're not going to have the opportunity for orderly withdrawal. I worry that our troops are not going to be at the wrong end of a khe san or Tet: I worry that they will be at the wrong end of a Dien Bien Phu.
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bklyncowgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
39. Interesting timing of this leak--also, isn't the Sun a Moonie paper?
My theory is that Poppy intends to snap a leash on Junior before he screws things up any further.

That's why Baker and Hamilton got sent to Iraq. Someone must have wanted to get this out before the election and into a friendly venue. I mean wouldn't leaking to the Washington Post or the New York Times be a better choice?

Junior must be furious but to be perfectly honest, this has been his life story. Junior screws up and Poppy sends someone--usually Jim Baker--in to salvage the situation. (Must suck to be Baker--though I'm sure the money's good)

As long as Lil'George listens to daddy he'll be able to serve out his term and spend the rest of his life playing golf and fishing at the taxpayers expense.
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Stockholm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 07:08 AM
Response to Original message
40. Panel 'to urge Iraq policy shift' (BBC)
Members of the panel, which is led by former US Secretary of State James Baker, told the LA Times the shift could include large troop withdrawals.

A senior US official reaffirmed Washington's support for Iraq's leaders but said they must increasingly assume responsibility for security.

The Iraq situation is a key issue in November's US mid-term elections.

"There's got to be another way," is how one member of the Iraq panel summed up their views on the situation in Iraq and the failure of current US policy, according to the LA Times.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/6057740.stm
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