NORTH KOREA Has Conducted A Nuke Test. - MSNBC Breaking News

msnbc

<snip>

"South Korean government officials said North Korea performed its first-ever nuclear weapons test Monday, the South's Yonhap news agency reported.

South Korean officials could not immediately confirm the report.

South Korean President Roh Moo-hyun convened an urgent meeting of security advisers over the issue, Yonhap reported.

The North said last week it would conduct a nuclear test as part of its deterrent against a possible U.S. invasion."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061009/ap_on_re_as/koreas_...

for months the bushies have been saber rattling and banging war drums over IRAN and the "possibility of having nuclear weapons in the future"

yet - we've known North Korea has had the capability and were in the process of developing nukes

Why wasn't the saber rattling/wardrum banging directed at North Korea?

two possiblities:
1. North Korea has NO OIL
2. China has North Korea's back

probable outcome: bush will invade Iran because North Korea has nukes

Nothing happens to NK without China saying it's okay. It's all pretty simple.

We have ourselves a winner!!!!

Any attack on N. Korea that didn't end the war in minutes would lead to massive destruction in the south, with many, many casualties. S. Korea has decided to comply, by and large, buying off the north and making nice. It's gotten them nowhere: anything they give the N. has always been the north's by right.

are basically synonymous in the minds of most Americans, and terrorism is how they have framed/justified the war in Iraq. Plus NKs army is much stronger than Iran's.

it's time to point out Dubyha's massive failures again in diplomacy - not talking to people and relying on intimidation might work in Texas but on the world stage it's a recipe for disaster.

STAT!

Ugh.

we don't need 2 million sunblock.

My face and arms feel suddenly hot.

...This is about to get very, very messy.

They will be pleased. Not sure about the Chinese government.

?????????

lol

and they're not happy.

They're do not want any more conflict; they don't need it. They're interested in power through money/business---that avenue is working for them. Why would they want to mess that up?

And why would you be 'lol' on this serious matter?

for pretending to know what I was talking about. I'm not lol at this serious situation.

Nobody in China wants nuclear neighbors and certainly not an unstable nut-job like Kim Jong-Il.

World Reacts to N.Korea's Nuclear Test Warning

"The U.S. defined it as a “provocative action” and made it clear it will respond together with the international community. U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice told reporters a nuclear test “would create a qualitatively different situation on the Korean Peninsula” and Washington would have to assess its options"


"Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe said the North Korean announcement is “extremely regrettable” and warned that a nuclear test would not be tolerated. He added Tokyo will work with the U.S., China and South Korea to respond appropriately"

"Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Liu Jianchao called for cool-headed and disciplined responses from concerned countries. "We also hope that all parties will make the necessary efforts to peacefully resolve their mutual concerns through dialogue and consultation, and not take actions that escalate tensions,”

"The UN Security Council called an emergency meeting on Tuesday to discuss what measures to take but failed to reach consensus due to conflicting views among permanent members the U.S., China and France."


World reacts to N Korean move



CHINESE UN ENVOY WANG GUANGYA
"If the six-party talks cannot do anything about it, I don't think the Council is in a to do it."


SOUTH KOREAN UNIFICATION MINISTRY SPOKESMAN YANG CHANG-SEOK
"This poses a grave threat to peace on the Korean peninsula and it will have a decisively negative impact on inter-Korean relations.

"We express deep regret and concern."


RUSSIAN FOREIGN MINISTER SERGEI LAVROV
"We are working with Pyongyang in order that it exercises restraint and in order to prevent hasty steps.


UK FOREIGN OFFICE SPOKESMAN
"A missile test launch would be viewed by the United Kingdom and the rest of the international community as a highly provocative act with serious consequences for the DPRK (North Korea).

China decries "brazen" development

"China, a close ally of North Korea, denounced the claimed test as "brazen" and South Korea said it would respond "sternly."

-snip-

"The DPRK has ignored the widespread opposition of the international community and conducted a nuclear test brazenly on October 9," China's Foreign Ministry said in a statement on its Web site.

The Chinese government is firmly opposed to this, the statement said."

They are NOT pleased that this has occurred.

China lead the international effort to prevent this - they view it as a major foreign policy failure...

as per reports on world reaction on CNNi just now...also used "grave consequences" and the act was "intolerable"

And that's considered "strong language" coming from China.

I think you should be careful not to antagonize them. They are the only support you have. As long as they back you up, the rest of the world will not do anything to stop or slow you down.

If China gets tired of you or thinks that you are not worth the diplomatic effort anymore, the rest of the world wouldn't be able to save you, even if it wanted to.

Per MSNBC cable news station

all weekend....

someone cut a deal?

although much of this goes to Kim Ill .... bush has his blame her too.

Clinton through Bill Richardson talked to the N. Koreans .... no bombs
bush stopped he talks w/ N Korea ....... bombs

Add this to Katrina, Iraq, Afghanistan, 9-11, spying, dirty elections,
corruption, and massive debt ..... the worst President ever.

"We expect the U.N. Security Council to take immediate actions to respond to this unprovoked act," Snow said.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-10-09-whit...

(i thought bushco didn't like the u.n.)

Here's a link: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15190745/

n/t

Bushco. really, really fucked that up. Big time.

think of it, it would give the warmongers more fuel

I'm not sure how much they want
to publicize their incompetence

(but i bet this pushes their Page scandal off the front pages)

Iran would have to do something similar to give the warmongers fuel.

North Korea? What's bush et al going to do about it? I can tell you right now: nothing. They'll act all horrified and they'll verbally reprimand North Korea for it, but that's it.

Not real concerned about it. we have nukes, don't we? Perhaps this will scare the shit out of the bush-lovers... and they'll realize how badly he's fucked the world up by shaking a fist at other countries instead of trying diplomacy.

And neither has nukes, so they'd have to fight NK conventionally. There are probably a dozen or more major cities in the region that, if nuked, would also devestate the world economy and make 1929 look like a burp.

And, dammit, I'm of draft age! And my brother, and two ex-brothers-in-law, and my cousin and cousin-in-law...

Well, at least that's a few less kilograms of plutonium they have to throw at other nations.

In responce to the question posed by yours (and mine) signature, I am watching the watchmen. This is very well timed for the republicans, it will book end nicely with the verdict from the saddam trial this coming weekend and undoubtedly more "terror" threats will be twarted by our torture and tapping.
We must all be watching the watchmen, its our blindness that has lead us down this road.


Be Vigilant.

God this board is tough to handle. If North Korea nuked anyone, every fucking super power in the world would turn the country to ash.

Don't even start speculating, because it's never going to happen. They just don't want to be pushed around. I am shocked people would buy into this nonsense. Who gives a shit if they have nukes anyway.

is president? What is America an exception to? The world has no guiding light. Everyone is responsible for their owm security whether you live in Iraq, Iran, North Korea, or New Orleans.

When atom bombs are illegal, only war criminals will have atom bombs.

The American people have allowed their criminal administration to remain in power and threaten the world. We have been unwilling or unable to restrain them. The threatened people of the world, whatever we may think of them, want to live without the threat of a pre-emptive attack from America.

The spread of nuclear weapons is inevitable. The double standards of empire are effective when the fearful people of America can bully without consequence. Sorry folks, that era is ending. Find a new way to get along together.

PBS Frontline

Kim Duk-Hong: Interview with a North Korean Defector

Kim Duk Hong is one of the highest ranking officials to defect from North Korea. He escaped from North Korea in 1997, first to Beijing and then to Seoul, along with Hwang Jang Yop, the architect of the North Korea regime's ideology known as "Juche," meaning "self reliance." Kim was Hwang's assistant for many years. He is officially barred from talking to the press by the South Korean government, however, FRONTLINE obtained this exclusive interview at an undisclosed location in South Korea. The interview was conducted in Korean and has been translated.

Why did you defect?

When I was 20 years old, I realized something was wrong with North Korea. Only people who had connections could succeed in that society. I was thinking of defecting as far back as 1958.

So you waited more than 40 years before defecting. Why did you take so long?

Before I left, I studied Marxism and Communism. I realized that Kim Jong Il's government is following Marxism literally. At this time, I thought that someone should speak up about this, so I did.

Did you have contact with Kim Jong Il?

It is really hard to contact him. Even people who live in the same area, they report to him and respond to him by fax only. He barely speaks, only at a few parties. A middle class person like me hardly gets a chance to see him.

How did Kim Jong Il control the country?

He controls his administration exclusively. It operates absolutely by his word. It's an autocracy. Although people have been suffering for 50 years, Kim Il Sung and Kim Jong Il used to be like gods. Kim Il Sung used to kill people who didn't like his administration, but nobody blamed him. People thought that it was politicians' fault, not his fault. People have begun to realize that Kim Jong Il is wrong, he is killing people.

From the Clinton administration's point of view, they were able to negotiate a freeze of the nuclear plant at Yongbyon. Didn't that slow the nuclear program?

Of course, I think the Clinton administration was great. The United States solved the problem peacefully. It was historic. resumed the development of nuclear weapons as soon as they signed the Geneva Agreed Framework, even before the ink dried on the paper.

In 1995, the national military industry secretariat went to Pakistan to trade skills in exchange for producing nuclear weapons. They sent engineers to Pakistan after they signed for Geneva Agreed Framework in 1994. They began to talk about nuclear weapons with Pakistan 1995. It is true.

Do you believe that Clinton administration was naive in dealing with Kim Jong Il?

First of all, I think that they didn't know North Korea, Kim Il Sung or Kim Jong Il. That was their big mistake.

What is Kim Jong Il's ambition?

Firstly he wants to have nuclear weapons. My complaint is that the United States gives North Korea time to work on developing weapon programs. Kim Jong Il doesn't care that people are starving and poor. He spent almost all the money on nuclear weapons.

That's why I'm here. I defected to speak out about the starvation. I left my family, friends, and comrades in North Korea. I don't think that Kim Il Sung and Kim Jong Il are human beings. He's working only for his own ambitions, only for himself. If he had a sense of humanity, he wouldn't be this kind of leader.

A new administration in Washington is taking a tougher line in North Korea. Do you think is it proper?

I think that Bush knows how to treat Kim Jong Il. Don't trust Kim Jong Il, never, ever. What Kim Jong Il is doing is producing nuclear weapons to kill people in the world, and providing expertise in nuclear weapon development to countries which are anti-American.

He kills our people, arrests people who are against his administration. He produces drugs. It's a national industry. He kidnaps other people from South Korea, or other democratic countries. He is doing all sorts of bad things, like the devil. Do not trust him, never, ever.

What do you believe the United States can do prevent North Koreans from acquiring weapons?

The only way is to kill Kim Jong Il. Possessing nuclear weapons is not dangerous. But the fact that Kim Jong Il has weapons is dangerous. I think that's why the Bush administration treats Kim Jong Il the way they do. Some people believe the problem can be solved by removing nuclear weapons in Yongbyon. However, if Kim Jong Il is still alive, he will make bombs again. I think that President Bush knows him. He is the only one who understands who Kim Jong Il is.

But there are others who are critics of the Bush administration who believe that Kim Jong Il will be willing to deal away the nuclear program. Do you disagree with this?

I think two things: People who have never experienced their children or relatives being kidnapped from Japan or somewhere else and taken to North Korea, and then killed by Kim Jong Il, they say, "Peace, peace." People without knowledge about North Korea criticize without knowing.

What policy do you suggest? Is war the only way to remove Kim Jong Il from power?

I think the Bush administration is right in being anti-North Korea. Blocking their economy, it's good way.

Some countries send food, medication, and so on, to North Korea. But they shouldn't send these things through Kim Jong Il. I think they would do better to provide it individually, person-to-person, in North Korea by dropping it with a big balloon, rather than provide it through Kim Jong Il. I think it will be more effective. Why do they provide these things through Kim Jong Il's regime?

Everyone wants to escape from North Korea. If Kim Jong Il would open the industry of North Korea, his system would die. North Korean people really want to open up, to trade with other countries, but Kim Jong Il doesn't.

I don't understand why you guys don't try to talk to the people of North Korea rather than to Kim Jong Il. He might not listen to you. If you guys help our people to get out of there, there would be a revolution by people against Kim Jong Il in North Korea. There are lots of defectors from North Korea in China, South Korea. We have connections to people in North Korea, and eventually we could have revolution.

There are a lot of ways to destroy North Korea, Kim Jong Il. If we would really want to destroy Kim Jong Il, we should be brave. If we are afraid of war, I don't think we can have peace. We shouldn't be afraid of war.

unfortunately.

The Robertson-Falwell et. al. types will all be clapping their hands and "Praisin' the Lawrd" because they think the End is Nigh and they, The Chosen Ones (lol) will be Raptured right out of here before All Hell Breaks Loose. They're so sure that they are so special and that they will be saved, that they will probably be cheering Bush&Corp. to "Bring 'Em On".

That would not suprize me one bit.

...In all seriousness, holy crap!!! if this is true. Bushco is powerless to deal with it.

"For great justice!"

ps: To translate for the dour, this is known as 'Black Humor', often employed during times of stress...like these.

N/T.

A "nucular" bomb.

"Hahaha."



www.yourmorningleibowitz.blogspot.com
The Daily Show as a comic strip

Or so says the t-shirt I'm wearing...

First thought that goes through Dick Cheney's mind.

That is what Novak would have us do!

CHAPTER VII
ACTION WITH RESPECT TO THREATS TO THE PEACE, BREACHES OF THE PEACE, AND ACTS OF AGGRESSION

http://www.un.org/aboutun/charter/chapter7.htm

Some may try to argue that it does, but it never has before.

would come under those ....

Just came over the breaking news email. I'll update with a link when available.

On edit:

SEOUL, South Korea - South Korean government officials said North Korea performed its first-ever nuclear weapons test Monday, the South's Yonhap news agency reported.

...

South Korean President Roh Moo-hyun convened an urgent meeting of security advisers over the issue, Yonhap reported.

The North said last week it would conduct a nuclear test as part of its deterrent against a possible U.S. invasion.

The director of South Korea's monitoring center that is watching for a test with sound and seismic detectors declined to immediately comment on the report. The U.S. Geological Survey said it had detected no seismic activity in North Korea, although it was not clear whether a blast would be strong enough for its sensors.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061009/ap_on_re_as/koreas_...

Link for LBN?

It may knock Foley out, but this opens a whole host of new nat'l security issues and MASSIVE, MASSIVE FAILURE. They failed, big time and now NK has the bomb. Definitively. And missile technology. Bad news all around, for everyone.

I don't think W feels enough to understand anything except what he hoped to accomplish by his horrible foreign policy towards North Korea.

We're not far apart on this. I just think W is licking his lips over the prospect of eternal war.

It just reiterates what a MISERABLE FAILURE he and this administration are....the Dems should make hay and hammer it home. How the fuck has Bush made us more safe? He has allowed North Korea to acquire the BOMB.

and did not aggressively pursue its ICBM program.

All that changed when the Chimp blew into town.

Make no mistake about it - this is a BushCo failure...

The Global Positioning System carries radiation detectors specifically as part of the global nuclear detection network. Somebody in the DOD knows whether this happened. I wonder when they'll come out and talk.

If I wasn't already drunk tonight I'd be getting that way.

I would think the only thing that could escape the mineshaft or whatever they used would be neutrinos, and those are damn difficult to detect. X-rays, gamma rays, and all the loose subatomic particles should be stopped, right?

Seems to me the only way to detect an underground blast is by seismology. Or am I just wildly off base?

<fixed a stupid typo>

In theory, no, underground blasts don't emit radiation, however in practice, I don't know what the tolerances of the military grade radiation detectors are, or what kind of leakage they would need to ID the site. Add to that the question of the fission/fusion ratio and yield of the bomb that they used, and it's an open question. (The higher the fusion percentage, the "cleaner" the bomb in terms of radiation.)

However, what can't be so easily contained is the EM pulse from the detonation, which would definitely be noticible even from an underground detonation.

2 kilotons is pretty small for a nuke in general, and tiny for a fusion bomb. Musta been really dirty, then. Glad it's in their soil, not ours!

I forgot about the other parts of the electromagnetic spectrum, though. Musta been a hell of a blast of radio waves as well. Doesn't the lower-frequency stuff penetrate the ground fairly well?

I don't know a lot about the radio effects of a nuclear blast--although I'm not sure it matters, as if you're within the range where it would be oppressive, any radio you have will be put down by the EM pulse anyway.

sounds like a reasonable concern,,,If the US wasn't being "Imperialistic" perhaps NK wouldn't be so concerned...

in 2002.

a sad day for the world isn't it?

And would have happened eventually no matter who was in the WH. The North Koreans have been screwing around with this for 13 years. While the people were eating grubs and tree bark, Pyongyang was pouring every cent of foreign aid into their nuclear program.

This really isn't a surprise, it's been a long term goal of NK. Unfortunately, NK is an example of a country where the leadership is immune to sanctions and threats. They knew we weren't going to do anything to hurt them so they went merrily along their way in developing nuclear weapons.

...which, if diplomacy had been allowed to continue, might have led to North Korea opting for a better path than this. I'm sure the ultimate goal in mind was to have North and South Korea reunify (not entirely unlike East and West Germany).

Of course, then came idiot Bush with his "Axis of Evil" babble, which managed to piss off the North Koreans Big Time, and pretty much ended the hope of their venturing down a better path.

And now THIS is the end result.



Bottom Line: Bush and his crew fucked-up royally. They absolutely MUST pay dearly for it.

To play the blame game on this one. NK snookered everyone.


Seymour Hersh put together a pretty good piece a couple of years ago that shows how NK was jerking everyone's chains.


http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?030127fa_fact

you know they will...

NKorea may have conducted a nuclear test: Yonhap

09/10/2006 02h55

SEOUL (AFP) - South Korea has received intelligence that North Korea has conducted its first ever nuclear test, the official Yonhap news agency has reported citing officials.

The move came as Japan's new Prime Minister Shinzo Abe began a visit to South Korea focused on pressuring North Korea to drop its planned nuclear test, and on improving bilateral relations soured by historical issues.

Abe arrived from Beijing, where he and President Hu Jintao had expressed "deep concern" about the test plan and vowed to push for the resumption of stalled disarmament talks.

North Korea's October 3 announcement that it plans to test a nuclear bomb on an unspecified date, in response to what it called US military threats and sanctions, has sparked worldwide alarm and condemnation from the UN Security Council.

http://www.afp.com/english/news/stories/061009025522.gr...

I just know the neocons will be screaming in the morning about how it was Clinton that let Kim Jong Il join the nuclear club.

I hope and pray that our counter-attack with the TRUTH that it was Bush's idiotic brinksmanship... his cutoff of talks and aid to North Korea that led to this situation.

I was really getting tired of the Foley tabloid issue anyway. In the great scheme of things, it's Iraq, Iran, the bogus war on 'terra', the bait and switch economy and (on edit) THIS that are the important issues, not some two-bit pederast.

Bush's empty threats only succeeded in pushing North Korea into developing atomic weapons.

wants? No oil...I hear the Korean people barely have enough to eat.

I wonder why the test is now...????

Except it does make * look bad.....HE IS NOT KEEPING US SAFE, IS HE?

which is why Jong-il is still there Saddam is not.

Why coouldn't they wait until the elections were over?

a look at what will be on Faux News tomorrow.

I will pummel anyone about the head and neck that actually says that to me in public. George Bush owns this mess inside and out.

He helped open talks between N and S Korea. But Bush fucked up everything with his blather on N Korea being part of the "Axis of Evil".

This is Bush's diplomatic failure, not Clinton's.

Probably something like this: "Oh, Clinton trying to institute talks gave North Korea more time to work on their missile program!" Cue grunting and chest-beating.

My mom is a freeper, I know how they (don't) think.

I mean the North can now do major damage to South Korea, Japan if attacked. Only a fool would now attack them militarily.

They have something like 50,000 artillery and rocket pieces aimed at Seoul--if they wanted to, the place would be a smoking hole in the ground. And they've been believed to have operational nukes for some time, they just never tested them. Even without nukes, their intermediate-range missiles could have wreaked serious havoc on Japan.

But no--there's no possible military response to this that doesn't end up in a mushroom cloud. That's what both the Japanese and the South Koreans are going to be saying loudly.

Still enough to turn Seoul (where I live) into a smoking crater. They have enough pointed at Tokyo too.

N. Korea would wipe out Seoul Korea in 30 mins

Not to take anything away from the seriousness of this situation or the danger to those is Seoul (I was stationed there and still have friends in the area, so I can sympathize), but a nuclear test does not = nuclear missile capability. If the NKs recent missile tests are any indication, their missile guideance is still relativly weak. Granted, with a nuke, close is good enough. My thoughts are with the people of Korea and Japan.

We aren't capable (Bu$hco).

The immediate result of this would be the Nuclear arming of S. Korea and Japan. This is a nightmare scenario for them, second only to a nuclear Taiwan.

We aren't capable (Bu$hco).

And they may begin a preemptive war, U.S.-style.

Uh, I don't think so.
Think hard.

its army, and also to allow it to attack with its military.

Scary times. Their governemnt is about as crooked, conservative, warmongering, hatefilled, and inept as ours is.

Japan will not be attacking North Korea any time, due to the rather large number of artillery pieces pointed towards Tokyo.
I know about Abe and his grand plans, but rebuilding their military will take time. And regardless, until they solve the problem of North Korea's conventional artillery, they will not be attacking any time soon.

Not big ones, but they have had the tech to create them for a long time... so have S. Korea and Taiwan. And who knows, the U.S. might smuggle some in to support them with. Asian Nuclear War, anyone?

Not everyone is quite as crazy as you to be wanting to launch them thar nukes.
SK and Japan definitely have the tech. But nobody wants nucklur war here....

I'm not Shinzo Abe.

WASHINGTON, Oct 8 (Reuters) - U.S. intelligence cannot confirm North Korea conducted a nuclear test, an official said on Sunday.

"We cannot confirm," said a U.S. official who asked not to be identified because he was not authorized to speak publicly.

North Korea's Central News Agency, or KCNA, said the country had successfully carried out an underground nuclear test.

http://today.reuters.com/news/articlebusiness.aspx?type...

Who knows with NK.

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqcenter/recenteqsww/Maps/re...

They have been in meetings since 10:40 this morning.
I live in Bucheon Korea. There was seismic activity.

The propaganda story hit before it was even set off.

Wouldn't a nuke test show up on a seismograph? Surely there must be some amateur geologists on DU who can call BS on this. Or confirm it.

Unless they are automatically classifing activity in NK, this is nothing but empty propaganda.

Even if it is underground there should be a sizable EMP. If they can't pick it up, either no test took place, or the technology has deteriorated since the end of the cold war.

Yet the USGS which has automatically updating data for the entire world has absolutely no activity greater than a M_w 2.5 on the Korean Penninsula in the last week.

dooesn't make sense they would and USGS wouldn't....


http://uk.news.yahoo.com/09102006/323/north-korea-condu...

from Bushitler.

Maybe you should let this play out for a day or so before donning the tin foil hat.

This will be spun by the GNP as a failure in leadership and diplomacy. This is most likely the 'nail in the coffin' for the Uri Party in next years Presidential elections.

The director of South Korea's monitoring center that is watching for a test with sound and seismic detectors declined to immediately comment on the report. The U.S. Geological Survey said it had detected no seismic activity in North Korea, although it was not clear whether a blast would be strong enough for its sensors .." http://www.myfoxdfw.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?content...

Dunno, frankly. Looks mostly like SK news has reported NK announced a test. Everybody should have been monitoring, and there would have been a seismic signal. No idea why SK monitors don't comment. NK claims no radiation escape could make radiation monitoring pointless. Lots of possibilities: NK full of BS, NK dud, everybody playing geopolitical games, who knows?

And quite frankly the USGS can detect any seismic activity anywhere in the world above say 1.0 (which is 1/16,000 the size of what SK claiming happened) due to linked up siesmograph networks.

.. on the reports .." http://www.timesnow.tv/articleshow/2123356.cms

I expect you're right about USGS. Cursory review of their website suggests they should have been able to detect something of this size.