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Khephra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 10:13 PM
Original message
Blair accepts military trial for Britons
Blair accepts military trial for Britons

US warnings shift view on Guantanamo Bay prisoners

Nicholas Watt in Seoul and Julian Borger in Washington
Monday July 21, 2003
The Guardian

Tony Blair indicated yesterday that two of the British men being detained at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba will still stand trial before a US military court because national security would be at risk if they were returned to Britain.
With the attorney general, Lord Goldsmith, expected to start talks today in Washington about the fate of the two men, Mr Blair hinted that their best hope would be a slight loosening of the military tribunal's rules.

Meanwhile, Clive Stafford Smith, a lawyer who has represented the British inmates at American hearings, said he had been told by US government sources that a deal had been done before Lord Goldsmith even arrived in the country. The only significant concession would be to lift the threat of the death penalty.

The news will infuriate supporters of Moazzem Begg and Feroz Abbasi, whose hopes were raised last week when George Bush authorised a temporary halt in the legal proceedings to allow Lord Goldsmith to travel to the talks.

more...................

http://www.guardian.co.uk/alqaida/story/0,12469,1002269...
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 10:17 PM
Response to Original message
1. National security would be at risk?????
These guys must know something about the Crime Family. What a pathetically weak excuse.
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GCP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-03 06:23 AM
Response to Reply #1
10. This is what you get when you bend the law to shape your agenda
Edited on Mon Jul-21-03 06:24 AM by marshallplan
The US are not going to release any of the evidence against them, citing national security. If they get back to the UK, there will be no evidence with which to charge them, hence they cannot be put on trial in the UK, hence they would go free.

The whole thing is a huge mess, thanks to * and Asscradt.
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Nihil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-03 07:36 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. Gitmo has a very long elastic leash
> If they get back to the UK, there will be no evidence with which to charge
> them, hence they cannot be put on trial in the UK, hence they would go free.

... but only until Asscroft asks for them back - he doesn't even need to
provide any evidence, just "information" supporting the request.

The traitor Blunkett has agreed to send any UK citizen over for indefinite
incarceration, interrogation (/torture), military tribunal and execution.
There is no "double jeopardy" rule built in (i.e., you could be freed once
but then pulled back and re-tried).


Nihil
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Sliverofhope Donating Member (858 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
2. Essentially, it seems, nobody in the world will stand
up to obvious injustice because the US is just too powerful economically, militarily, and politically to piss off its leaders. We are in the belly of the beast. Unless we change the policies of this country, other countries don't stand much a chance.
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Frances Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
3. Who will trust Blair or Bush when they say intelligence now?
<<Speaking to Sky television during his trip to the far east, Mr Blair hinted that President Bush had handed him intelligence warning of the dangers of returning the men to Britain, where they would almost certainly be set free.>>



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benfranklin1776 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 10:31 PM
Response to Original message
4. Unbelievable
Edited on Sun Jul-20-03 11:00 PM by benfranklin1776
What a complete Bush toadying stooge he is! This may be the final nail in Blair's coffin since he has allowed British citizens to be tried by a kangaroo court so that he can eagerly please his American master. (As was fittingly symbolic of how he has thoroughly eliminated the last vestiges of his self respect when he appeared with DimSon on the frontal TV shot there were only two American flags behind them. The British flag was nowhere to be found, as is appropriate since he has thoroughly abandoned his British constituents for unquestioned fealty to Junior)

This really is going to endear Tony to the British people:

"His remarks show he has been persuaded by US concern that
Mr Begg and Mr Abbasi would be free to return to Pakistan if
they were repatriated because legal experts do not believe they
could be charged with any offence in Britain. "

Of course there was that "secret" evidence that Tony was shown. But as we have seen it doesn't take much to persuade "ol 45 minute Tony" If George says its true and George says God told him, well hell that's good enough for Tony.

British citizens will certainly sleep better knowing that the US can now arrest them, even though they have committed no offense against the laws of Britain, and then ship them to Guantanamo where they may face the death penalty for unspecified charges and Tony will do everything he can to speed the process along with a minimum of inconvenience to the Bushies! But hey if they have the money they can have a defense team, provided of course they first pay the boys at Guantanamo to "vet" them and the attorneys are approved by their captors. UNFRIGGINBELIEVABLE. Imagine another country dictating such terms to us regarding our citizens??

One question Tony, what do those pictures show you doing??? Must have been pretty bad, eh?



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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
5. This is just incomprehensible!!!
Edited on Sun Jul-20-03 10:58 PM by goforit
What has happenned to these BOZOS????

Their madness overwhelms them!

:shrug:
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 11:16 PM
Response to Original message
6. More discussion on this topic
Please click here.
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-03 12:27 AM
Response to Original message
7. Blair has completely lost it
and will go down with the next 12month period...

When is the next Labour Party Conference???
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-03 03:24 AM
Response to Original message
8. Bye bye, Labour
Down down they go, the longer they wait to kick Blair off their ship, the farther Labour will fall. It's too bad, because a little under half of Labour's parlament are good folk.
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jos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-03 05:32 AM
Response to Original message
9. Good poodle.
Good poodle.
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-03 06:27 AM
Response to Original message
11. Why wouldn't the Brits want
to bring their own to trail?
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Briar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-03 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #11
17. Why the Brits don't want the try their own
Why? Because they couldn't. For example, much of the so-called evidence against these men was obtained under duress and so would not be admissible in an English court. What's more an English court would assume these men to be innocent until proven guilty, not that all due legal procedures should be bent out of shape in order to obtain a pre-determined guilty verdict. Then there's the question of whether of not these men are, ahem, "bad". An English court is not concerned with looking into men's souls to determine their moral state in order to condemn them. English courts are concerned with whether or not the accused is guilty of the crime of which he is accused. It's unlikely that these men have broken any English law, and, as I have said, whatever they have been charged with can't be proved according to English rules of evidence. (I would bet, moreover, that it can't be proved against most of the victims of American "justice" locked up in Guantanamo Bay, most of whom have yet to be charged with anything).

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T_i_B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-03 06:51 AM
Response to Original message
12. Now where are those Blairites?
Who claimed that our poodling on Iraq would increase our influence with the US and that we would be able to get these prisoners a fair trial as a result?

Looks to me that we have no influence whatsoever and Blair's strategy of appeasement has been a complete faliure.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-03 07:30 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Blair's cave-in to Bush is morally repugnant
but then, so is everything about this man that I once admired.
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jeanmarc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-03 07:43 AM
Response to Original message
15. You have blood on your hands, Mr. Blair
Blair isn't even a force anymore. He has nothing. I swear, I taped Crossfire last week, and Blair was giving his speech during the usual Crossfire time and I was aghast that I had to even fast forward through this poodle's crap.

When does the no confidence vote come?
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Kamika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-03 07:48 AM
Response to Original message
16. lol what a wuss
I sure hope and i do think that if britain held an american illegally wed get him/her out asap
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-03 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Hi Briar!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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