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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 10:55 AM
Original message
Sen. Hagel says GOP has lost its way
Sen. Hagel says GOP has lost its way
By WILL LESTER, Associated Press Writer
7 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - Republicans have lost their way when it comes to many core GOP principles and may be in jeopardy heading into the fall elections, Sen. Chuck Hagel (news, bio, voting record), R-Neb. says.

Hagel, a possible presidential candidate in 2008, said Sunday that the GOP today is very different party from the one when he first voted Republican.

"First time I voted was in 1968 on top of a tank in the Mekong Delta," said Hagel, a Vietnam veteran. "I voted a straight Republican ticket. The reason I did is because I believe in the Republican philosophy of governance. It's not what it used to be. I don't think it's the same today."

Hagel asked: "Where is the fiscal responsibility of the party I joined in '68? Where is the international engagement of the party I joined fair, free trade, individual responsibility, not building a bigger government, but building a smaller government?"
(snip/...)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060820/ap_on_el_pr/hagel_r...
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
1. Chuckie is doing some preliminary campaigning and he's using the
obvious to make himself look good.

2008 is two years away Chuck. You think getting a jump on the rest of the herd will give you an advantage, don't you?

Senator ES&S at work.

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Telly Savalas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-22-06 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #1
46. It's a smart move politically.
The only way the Republican Party is going to hang onto the White House in 2008 is if they rebrand themselves a bit. A guy like Hagel could pull this off, because he's been offering measured criticism of Bush for quite some time, so it'll come across as sincere when 2007 and 2008 roll around.

This is why Democrats need to do more to challenge the fundamental principles of conservative ideology...that is demonstrate Bush isn't an anomaly. Attack the conservative obsession with small government as opposed to effective government, their stubborn insistence to apply Cold War foreign policy strategies in a post-Cold War environment, their disdain for the needs of working families. That sort of thing.

The GOP is too smart to let the 2008 election be a referendum on the Bush agenda, so we need to be strategically flexible.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
2. The voting machine company owner is setting himself up as the
Edited on Sun Aug-20-06 10:59 AM by w4rma
reform candidate for a Presidential run in 2008.

He's been there, as a U.S. Senator, all this time supporting Bush and the rest of the GOP leadership on everything. He waits until the hard work has been done and it is popular to speak out against the cabal.
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emcguffie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. You both are exactly right.
Isn't he being just a wee bit obvious?
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emcguffie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. He's going to save the country, natch.
And the poor little GOP, from the terrible bad neocons.
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kysrsoze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:24 AM
Response to Reply #6
40. I imagine every one of those Repub fu*cks doing the same thing
"... and you'll see the reform start with me when I start my next term." Whatever.
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mikeysnot Donating Member (965 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
3. It lost its way
when you test ran the fake voting machines in your senate run in 1998.
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OnionPatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #3
20. Hear! Hear!
nt
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wryter2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
4. Can we say it now?
"The Republican party is in disarray. They have no clear message." :evilgrin:
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Olney Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. They are flip-floppers too.
:evilgrin:
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tsuki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
5. Reform candidate?
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0131-01.htm

/snip

Back when Hagel first ran there for the U.S. Senate in 1996, his company's computer-controlled voting machines showed he'd won stunning upsets in both the primaries and the general election. The Washington Post (1/13/1997) said Hagel's "Senate victory against an incumbent Democratic governor was the major Republican upset in the November election." According to Bev Harris of www.blackboxvoting.org, Hagel won virtually every demographic group, including many largely Black communities that had never before voted Republican. Hagel was the first Republican in 24 years to win a Senate seat in Nebraska.

Six years later Hagel ran again, this time against Democrat Charlie Matulka in 2002, and won in a landslide. As his hagel.senate.gov website says, Hagel "was re-elected to his second term in the United States Senate on November 5, 2002 with 83% of the vote. That represents the biggest political victory in the history of Nebraska."

What Hagel's website fails to disclose is that about 80 percent of those votes were counted by computer-controlled voting machines put in place by the company affiliated with Hagel. Built by that company. Programmed by that company.

/snip

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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #5
30. Wow! He was almost as popular as
Sadam was in the last election he ran in.
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klook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #5
35. "We gotta get us some of that reform."
Is Hagel the Pappy O'Daniel of Nebraska?


Pappy O'Daniel: We need a shot in the arm. You hear me boys? In the goddamn arm! Election held tomorrow, that son of bitch Stokes would win it in a walk!
Junior O'Daniel: Well he's the reform candidate, Daddy.
Pappy O'Daniel: Yeah.
Junior O'Daniel: A lot of people like that reform. Maybe we should get us some.
Pappy O'Daniel: I'll reform you, you soft-headed son of a bitch. How we gonna run reform when we're the damn incumbent?
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JackDragna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
8. I disagree entirely.
The current administration is pure Republicanism, exposed for all to see. A secretive, judgemental, punitive group that alters the political landscape to suit the whims of the wealthy.
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AlinPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. Plus they are religious fundamentalist hate-filled bigots. n/t
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #8
22. Warring and cheating the poor from the 19th century to the 21st century
that's the GOP I know.
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. Not to mention their overriding wish to take us back to the 19th century.
Edited on Sun Aug-20-06 12:52 PM by calimary
You know, that swell time before so many of our more recently-won rights were secured. When women were second-class citizens (on a good day, maybe), and blacks were slaves, and other ethnics were either did the laundry or the cooking or the railroad-building, or just really didn't exist at all in the minds of most. When scores were settled unilaterally by Wild West vigilante justice, and nobody'd heard about the ACLU. And when religious life in this country was segueing from witchburnings to Elmer Gantry.

You know, the "good old days."

I am hesitant about the talk of original "Republican" values. Some of them sound relatively harmless, don't they? I mean - smaller government so, presumably, we all have to pay less in taxes to underwrite it, no busy-body crap - sounds nice, doesn't it? Yeah. Like the soothing words from some snake in the garden to a gullible young woman with a taste for apples. What concerns me, though, is that this was the cradle from which the republi-CON party we have now was spawned. THIS was where that found a comfortable, inviting, nurturing nest. So, in the long run, I'm not all that comfortable with the idea of just going back to original "core Republican values" from which certain individuals just got "sidetracked."
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Iowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #8
34. Exactly right... And what he's really saying is this:
"Now that we have changed all the rules so that the wealthy can be complete freeloaders, let's talk about slashing important government services so that the rest of you losers can afford to pay for us leeches".

This is pure Republicanism through and through. They haven't lost their way. They're doing exactly what they have wanted to do all along. And they are where they are due to a "perfect storm" of 1) a more dumbed down population, 2) a lazy/complicit/incompetent media, 3) rigged elections, and 4) an opposition party weakened from within by repuke wannabees.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
10. I Think the GOP FOUND Its Way--But Lost Americans and the World
The GOP has always looked for more or less legal ways to rape and pillage. With modern technology, they have perfected their craft beyond the dreams of Macchiavelli and Stalin. But in the process, they have lost their "cover" as true American patriots in a City on the Hill. The hill is now made of dung, not alabastor, and only corpses and predators inhabit it.

I don't think the GOP will ever return to respectability--it's gone too far into being a crime family. And Libertarianism will not begin to cover the naked sinners' shame.

So, what's next?
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ljm2002 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #10
16. You nailed it...
..."they have lost their cover".

The ideal Democratic response: "The Republicans haven't lost their way, they've lost their cover!"
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iwannadem Donating Member (11 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #10
27. Plus they are religious fundamentalist hate-filled bigots.
Plus they are religious fundamentalist hate-filled bigots.
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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
12. heh. he's using the Democratic platform to sell himself.
i see what you did there, Senator.
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #12
23. It's a good message to have out there in the public arena
Hegel sounding like Dr. Dean or Dennis Kucinich...I'll take it.
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jilln Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 07:49 AM
Response to Reply #23
39. If that's so...
then Dean and Kucinich espouse traditional Republican values?

I do consider Democrats to be GOP Lite.
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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
13. Keep saying things like this, Senator.
These are the kind of statements that keep Republicans home on election day.

Thank you, Senator.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. his plan for irag is very similar to Kerry's (but his voting record is Rep
uglican).
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-23-06 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #15
55. will the Corp Media label him a Cut & Run Pubbie??
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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
14. Yeah. They lost their way about 30+ years ago.
eom
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pazuzu Donating Member (97 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #14
38. 42 years ago to be exact. Goldwater sowed the seeds,
Nixon/Reagan/Bush/Bush reaped the harvest.
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last1standing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
17. Hagel is the repub Lieberman.
Just like Holy Joe, Hagel is very willing to trash his own party in order to gain centrist voters. The problem is, as Joe just found out, you end up losing your base. Only in Hagel's case I doubt the Dems are going to rush in to bolster his poll numbers.
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FighttheFuture Donating Member (748 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-22-06 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #17
48. Hardly, for there's no room for Chuckie in the Dems, unlike Loserman
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rosesaylavee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
18. Too little too late
If there was lamenting to be done, it was in 1996 when you first entered the national scene. Traditional Republicanism has said that it favors strong state govts, fiscal responsibility, etc.... but when has any of that been implemented since he came on board as a Republican in 1968? Which president or administration did any of those things in any meaningful or successful way?

ANSWER: Clinton's two terms featured the best fiscal responsibility the fed govt has seen in my lifetime. AND, one of Gore's pet projects was making the govt smaller and more efficient. All of that flew out the window January 2001.

Moran.

And what about those voting machines, Chuckie?
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OnionPatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
19. The only thing they lost their way on
is their ability to disguise their policies as things that will actually help average people. The above poster was right; this is the first time they've had total power, and so the fruits of their policies are now laid bare for all to see clearly. They haven't "lost their way"....they've been proven wrong.
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. When things are going the Pubs way..Chuckie was Silent
Now that the DONKEY is out of the BAG...he wants to yow yow some gripes and distance himself from the Neocons/Bush, etc.???

Chuckie is a GOPer and should be FRIED for supporting the most wasteful, evil president we ever had.

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Cosmocat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #19
41. YEP ...
That is it in a nutshell ...

As some have noted ... They have taken banal, simple concepts that EVERYONE would want ... Smaller government, less goverment intrusion, lower taxes ... Jesus, EVERYONE wants these things ...

They just yell about them the loudest while falsely portraying the democrats as being against these ...

Then, they repeat these simple, empty concepts over, and over and over, while the real power brokers behind the scenes implement their true agendas ... The great many deluded masses within the party who buy the crap just keep buying that it is the most "pure" political agenda ... But, as they have gotten the full run, it has been exposed as the SHALLOW cover for agenda of the ultra rich, and intellectually corrupt ...
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huskerlaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
24. Whatever.
So he can read opinion polls, big damn deal.

He's running for president in 2008 and his handlers have told him to distance himself from BushCo.

Nothing surprising there.

Nothing to get all happy and excited about.

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VegasWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
26. Hagel to save the US from ....., the Republicans? nt
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-23-06 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #26
57. but the Corp Cable media acts like only the Dems have a prob with *
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quiet.american Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
28. I've never understood why anyone would ever vote Republican n/t
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RonHack Donating Member (100 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #28
42. Especially McCain
Used to like the man, during the 2000 primaries. Now you can't tell the difference between him and the other GOPs.

I love that little bit on the end, new subject in the middle:

(snip)

McCain predicted Republicans will retain control of the Senate but said it is too early to tell if they can keep the House.

"This is a very tough election coming up," he said.

"The war is difficult. The president is not getting enough credit for a good economy which we have today," he said.

{paste}

"Credit for a good economy"?

Can ANYONE see the good economy around here? Anyone?

Neither can I.

No jobs = bad economy = no improvement.

Let's hope McCain's wrong about GOP chances for power.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-22-06 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #28
45. Because FDR was a communist, doncha know
That's what lots of folks were brought up with.
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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
29. Fine, Chuck.
Edited on Sun Aug-20-06 01:49 PM by tblue37
Switch parties and help the Dems take control from the Repubs in the Senate. Don't just squawk. Do something!
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
31. Never. Ever. Trust. A. Republican.
They'll smile and look you in the eye as they lie in your face and then stab you in the back.

While you are pulling the knife out of your back, they'll be molesting your kids.
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Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. !!!
:spray: :spray: :spray: .... Greatest. Analogy. EVER! :thumbsup:
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Beausoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #31
37. I am inclined to agree. n/t
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IronLionZion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
32. Chuck Hagel on the issues
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-23-06 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #32
54. Looks like he's "lost" right along with 'em.
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RCinBrooklyn Donating Member (421 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
36. I'll trade one Liberman for a Hagel. n/t
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mwooldri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
43. GOP Lost its way? No sh__ sherlock!
Glad he woke up and smelled the bacon. Now he just needs to change his record. Maybe ally himself with the Democratic Party and resign the Republican whip?

/Mark
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-22-06 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
44. They fooled ya then too Chuck
Republicans are only about working people being responsible for themselves so the government can be free to spend money on defense toys and corporate subsidies. This crew is raw Republican power in action. We should move away from the myth of small budget and government Republicans as soon as we can.
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FighttheFuture Donating Member (748 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-22-06 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
47. What a fucking joke! Hagel, who stole Nebraska in 98, is now...
the poster boy for Republican values! "If You Want To Win An Election, Just Control The Voting Machines" by Thom Hartmann

No wonder he thinks he can run for President. It's all in the bag for Chuckie!
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-22-06 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
49. Well how about that, just in time for the "08" Presidential elections. n/
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warrens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-22-06 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
50. Rove is going to get his ass
Count on it. Hagel is half sane (he says some really nutty shit too, though) and he has a point here. The GOP used to have a real purpose in life. The problem is, we stole all their good shit (deficit reduction, welfare reform) and left the bad shit (racism, jingoism, catering to the ultra wealthy) behind. So they stole our BAD but POPULAR shit (spending like drunken sailors, for one) plus got the religious wackos to sign up, and there ya go, today's GOP. Ike and Barry Goldwater would shriek in horror if they had lived to see these fascists.
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mkb Donating Member (124 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-22-06 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
51. PC
     Gore Vidal referred once to the Republican Party as
"...based on greed...".  I hope people should be
able to see that as much as possible.  So there really isn't
the need to talk of the party changing, as much as how the
Republicans have changed things for the worse, creating an
ugly, greedy, leadership that spoils things for good-natured,
well-meaning people.
     It's helpful that pure selfishness needs teamwork.  That
may seem like a contradiction, but it's not really when you
think of it.
     Selfish, greedy, and evil people are not necessarily
stupid.  They don't seem to make very good friends, or
company, as you may very well notice.  But they do cooperate
to make the world give them what they want, at any cost to
others.
     Where most people consider being fair and enjoy the
happiness of others, at least to a large extent, the selfish
do not, as a general rule.  This has to be seen by people
paying attention and hopefully seeing the threads of history
and society that provide the evidence for this being the
closest approximation of reality.
     Read books about the DuPonts and Rockefellers, at least
critical ones, and you should realize they seek family
relations as a means of protecting and advancing their
individual interests.  For example, the whole system of
privilege, based largely on inherited wealth, is maintained
by the elders, usually men, bribing the offspring with the
largesse of inheritance.  War should be seen as mostly a
vehicle for the rich.  Remember Goering's statement about the
common man not benefiting or desiring war.  You might check
out Smedley Butler's "War Is A Racket" for further
enlightenment.
     Most of us have the capacity to forego much of the
strife that exists in the world if we put our heads and
hearts into the effort.  Most of our problems can be worked
out by resonable people, and someday things may be quite good
indeed.  It takes learning, as much effort as you can muster,
and hopefully the heart of good to appreciate the benefits of
benevolent living.
     I saw George Carlin seemingly lament the extra syllables
in our descriptive words.  But the "softer" element
in those extra syllables, along with descriptions like
"politically correct" indicate progress, greater
cooperation, and less suffering.  As one who has progressed
from studying war to studying civilization, I can say from my
perspective that peace and civility do not have to be boring. 
I hope more will think this way.
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samsingh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-23-06 12:14 AM
Response to Original message
52. they lost their way as soon as they stole the election in 2000
and did nothing to protect democracy here.
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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-23-06 07:44 AM
Response to Original message
53. They haven't lost their way.
They followed a path of their own choosing like lemmings.
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-23-06 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
56. Hagel? The creator of diebold machines placed the Cabal in office.
Well,
Aren't yah just so sweet and innocent of all wrong doing.
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