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Nambe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 05:02 PM
Original message
Democrats see ruckus in the House as a rallying call
WASHINGTON (CSM)


Late nights, pressure on the job, angry words, a summons to the police: A scenario for domestic violence? No, just a highly partisan dispute in the US House of Representatives that Democrats hope to morph into rallying cry to take back the Congress.

By any measure, last Friday's meeting of the Ways and Means Committee - and its subsequent rehash on the floor of the House - sank comity in the people's house to a new low. It started with a dispute over a surprise revision of a pension bill and wound up with a call to the Capitol police. ---

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On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
1. And the Rallying Call is:
"Fruitcake -- I said you are a fruitcake!"

LOL It certainly energized me.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Now send some fruit cake to the
fruitcake... and include a barb or two in it...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

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Catshrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Or this....
You're a fruitcake and so is your unelected pResident!!
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Sliverofhope Donating Member (858 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
2. I had a conversation with a Republican
who had voted for Nader, being horrified by Bush, and he asked me what the democrats are up to. Because their response thus far has been pathetic. Perhaps now they will realize that Republicans, especially of DeLay's ilk do not play fair, and although this is not an excuse for fascist tactics of our own, it does mean we will have to embrace the enemy on their own terms. The democrats are too polite, too spineless, or too blackmailed. Hopefully this will be a wakeup call.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #2
21. NO. Never play by their rules.
But they must be made to understand that when they appropriate the supreme right to do exactly as they please, they unknowingly grant that right to others.

And, by all and any means, let's be done with being reasonable. We don't need to be reasonable. We need to fight for what the people of this nation require to survive and prosper. Not corporations. People. And we can't ask for some of it. We have to demand ALL of it. Let them negotiate. If they say we obstruct? We say we fight for our children, and their mothers and fathers.
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Wonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
24. Yes we can always hope...
I guess whether the democrats do press in regard to this falsified intelligence and actually nail who all was responsible for perpetrating these documents as a rally to war on false pretenses... will be the test of whether or not they have the spine this time to get to the bottom of this cabal like coup we have going within this current administration all the way to the OSP in Sharon's office if need be...

I hope this investigation does not bite the dust in the same way the 9/11 investigation to get to the bottom of charolette ramsey charges did. Remember that once the investigation was completed they told us what we already knew: YES the investigation found that the FBI field investigators were being impeded from higher ups... This we already suspected was the case. Problem is they failed to find out WHO higher up impeded the investigation or better yet WHY were the FBI field officers impeded from doing their job?

I am sorry to say, but until I see otherwise I kind of expect the same complicity regarding the Case of the Forged Documents as well...
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Ponderer Donating Member (215 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
5. This was unconstitutional
No congressman can be questioned by police for a debate in the House.

This is grounds for expulsion.
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NewJerseyDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. No
First of all, you can call the sergeant-at-arms to the restore order to the House or to a committee. Stark broke the rules when he personally insulted Scott McInnis. Now, I think that Thomas overreacted, but this has nothing to do with the constitution.
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. And your post had nothing to do with the issue. Key facts you left out:
1) Stark's insult came after McInnis told him to shut up.

2) The incident happened in the committee room, but the police were sent to evict the Democrats in the library next door - three times.

Thanks for playing.
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NewJerseyDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #7
23. It doesn't matter
You can debate who was wrong here for hours. I think that both Democrats AND republicans acted improperly. But, this has nothing to do with the constitution or expulsion. There is a reason why there is a sergeant-at-arms.
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Changenow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Thomas didn't call the police about Stark
That was the lie the Pukes came up with afterward. The calling records prove the Democrats version that Thomas called the police before Stark and he had the argument when all the Democrats except Stark left to read the legislation. That fact is further supported because the police responded to the library where the Democrats were caucusing, not the Committee Room where the argument occurred.

Republicans lie about everything. The truth is meaningless to them.
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kainah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #8
18. Yes & unfortunately for the Dems
the police phone logs aren't nearly as good for reading as the transcript of the hearing.

We should also not lose sight of the fact that Pete Stark can be pretty damned outrageous. Frankly, I do think it was poor judgment by the Dems to leave him alone in the hearing room ... unless they, too, were trying to provoke. You don't have to be a wizard to know that leaving Stark alone in a room alone with the repug Ways & Means committee is tempting fate.

But that's the other piece I love. Not only that Stark is 72 and McInnis in his 40s but do they really contend that Stark was going to take on the WHOLE repug side of the committee? One Dem against that many repugs?????

The House Dems are increasingly employing tactics similar to those of Gingrich in the early 90s.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. You are incorrect on the facts, NewJersyDem
Edited on Sun Jul-20-03 06:48 PM by w4rma
...
No one can recall a committee chairman ever calling in the police to preempt fisticuffs between colleagues or to evict members from a meeting room - the two competing versions of the events of July 18. But there is ample precedent for how such a flashpoint can be amplified into a rallying cry to take back power.
...
Democrats lost no time in making it. E-mails alerted journalists to rush to the disputed library in the Longworth House Office Building. Later in the afternoon, Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi invoked a rarely used parliamentary device to force a debate on the House floor over the actions of chairman Bill Thomas (R) of California. The debate pulled out all the rhetorical stops: Rep. Robert Menendez (D) of New Jersey compared the incident to what happens in police states that Hispanic refugees flee. Rep. John Lewis (D) of Georgia recalled facing dogs, arrest, and jail as a civil rights activist in the 1960s.

"I never thought that as member of Congress I would be threatened with arrest by sitting in the library of the Ways and Means Committee," he said on the House floor hours after the event. "I say to the chairman of this committee: 'We will not be intimidated. We will not be immobilized. We live in a democracy and not in a police state.' "
...
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NewJerseyDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #11
22. I know the facts
First of all, I think that John Lewis and Bob Menendez said some things that basically accused the Republicans of being racists and that was entirely inappopriate and had nothing to do with the situation. These people weren't being arrested which some Democrats tried to make it seem like. Also, the democrats called the media because they wanted to make this into some big situation and say that the Republicans were trying to oppress them.

THERE WAS NO THREAT OF ARREST!!!!! It is just stupid to say that anyone was going to be arrested.

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preciousdove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-03 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #22
26. Huh?
What was said racial about a pension bill they were trying to railroad through the committee?

Calling the police always implies the threat of arrest

I think the whole thing was probably a staged stunt to take the attention off of the administration, I am guessing they knew what was going to happen and thought that Stark would be in the library and explode there to prove they were right but they guessed wrong and the situation only gave the Democrats a forum to show what the Repubs have in mind. (although they obviously convinced you that they had cause to call the police.)
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Gore1FL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-03 04:52 AM
Response to Reply #22
31. Questions:
If there was no threat of arrest then why were the police called?

If the problem was with Stark, why was the call placed prior to any action by him?

If the problem was Stark, why were the police dispatched to a room where he wasn't?

The entire meeting was a sham. The Dems didn't get the revisions, and parlimentary rules were obliterated by the chairman.

There is no defense, NJD, for what the republicans tried to pull.



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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-03 06:00 AM
Response to Reply #22
33. newjersy "DEM" was tombstoned.........
but how could that be? He had DEM right in his screen name!!! :crazy:
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NYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. As Gerry Ackerman said: If it was Mr. Stark in the meeting room with the
fruitcake, why were the police sent to the library?
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kainah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. the classic line from Ackerman!
Wasn't it great? And with his ever-present carnation, he was the perfect one to deliver it.
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Buns_of_Fire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-03 05:20 AM
Response to Reply #13
32. Mr. Stark in the meeting room with the fruitcake?
Damn. And here I'd guessed Col. Mustard, in the Kitchen, with the Candleabra. ( :spank:...ouch... too much "Clue" played as a kid... :spank:...ouch... :spank:...sorry...)
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jos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
9. All I can see is
It's about effin' time!

Tom DeLay is a bully and a thug. You have to stand up and fight such people.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
10. Tempers Flare at Young Republicans Convention as Delegates Clash over Amen
Edited on Sun Jul-20-03 06:45 PM by w4rma
Tempers Flare at Young Republicans Convention as Delegates Clash over Amendments

BOSTON (Talon News) -- The Young Republicans convention broke down into shouting and some physical contact on Friday as delegates for opposing tickets clashed over amendments being considered by the Young Republican National Federation's (YRNF) Constitution and By-Laws Committee.

Such amendments would realign the YRNF's administrative regions to match those of the RNC, easing cooperation between the two organizations. The change would also provide legitimacy to the ticket of Mike Flory and DeAnna Brangers. Currently, Brangers would be ineligible to serve with Flory as his co-chairman under the YRNF's existing regional divisions.

This has created tensions between pro-Flory delegates and the acting Convention Chairman John Birmingham of Ohio, who is also the campaign manager for Michael Mack, Mike Flory's opponent in the race for YRNF chairman.

The conflict became apparent at the first convention business meeting held on Friday morning, during which the chairman oversaw a brief reading of the report of the Committee on Rules and moved quickly to adjourn for lunch. As Birmingham called for adjournment, several delegates shouted concerns that the decision to close the meeting had been made in a manner that was inconsistent with Robert's Rules of Order, the YRNF convention standard. They were told that their comments were out of order, and the meeting was dissolved.

One delegate speaking with Talon News on condition of anonymity claimed that the first meeting had been improperly carried out. This delegate voiced concerns that the convention rules were never voted on, that attempts to debate the rules were struck down in violation of Robert's Rules, and that the "second" for the motion to adjourn came from the portion of the room reserved for non-certified delegates.

The dispute at the second convention meeting held in the afternoon was far more intense. After being quickly halted in their attempt to adopt the regional changes at the first meeting, Flory delegates arrived prepared to fight the convention chairman to a standstill.
...
http://www.gopusa.com/news/2003/july/0712_young_republi...
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
12. this is begging for a "Cops" parody
why couldn't this have happened when SNL was running. I see a shirtless Darrell Hammond as Bill Thomas, and Chris Kattan as the fruitcake. Tracy Morgan could do a good Charlie Rangel too.
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goobergunch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
14. Text of the Pelosi Resolution re the Battle of H-1102
H. Res. 324

Whereas during a meeting of the Committee on Ways and Means on July 18, 2003, for the consideration of the bill H.R. 1776, the chairman of the Committee on Ways and Means offered an amendment in the nature of a substitute;

Whereas during the reading of that amendment the chairman of the Ways and Means Committee directed majority staff of the committee to ask the United States Capitol Police to remove minority-party members of the committee from a room of the committee during the meeting, causing the United States Capitol Police thereupon to confront the minority-party members of the committee;

Whereas pending a unanimous-consent request to dispense with the reading of that amendment the chairman deliberately and improperly refused to recognize a legitimate and timely objection by a member of the committee: Now, therefore, be it

Resolved, That the House of Representatives disapproves of the manner in which Representative Thomas conducted the markup of legislation in the Committee on Ways and Means on July 18, 2003, and finds that the bill considered at that markup was not validly ordered reported to the House.
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gristy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. great resolution
Can Pelosi really bring a resolution to the floor without going through a committee? Does the House vote on it now? I know nothing about House protocol. My guess it will split down party lines though and not pass. But it's good to get it in the record AND to get all the repugs to vote against it.
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kainah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. Yes, it's called a privileged resolution
And it can be brought when conduct offends the dignity of the institution. Nancy Pelosi, as minority leader, can bring it when the integrity of her party is questioned. You can also bring one if a member impugns you by name. And this is what Dennis Kucinich used a couple months ago to challenge the legality of the Iraq war resolution. They aren't offered very much because you do have to prove an affront to the institution.
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hippiechick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
15. GOP action is further proof that 'The Grownups are in charge now' ....
NOT !!!!!!!! :eyes:

What a bunch of friggin' whiners, from Dumbya on down the line !!!

:hippie:
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Nottingham Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
17. What the Republicans did was ATROCIOUS! Democrats Were Awesome
Dems are realizing the fight they have!

Its basically a Brutal War in there!

:bounce:
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JohnnyAmerica Donating Member (186 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
25. It is a rallying call
"The Republican majority is firm, and it would take a tidal wave to reelect Democrats as a majority in the House, because they are so outclassed in terms of money and the demographics of most seats," says Mr. Sabato.
"It would take a tidal wave...". There is one forming and it is time to ride it into 1600. The chinks in their armor have been exposed, and it is time to thrust the blade.
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-03 02:05 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. Rep Stark is a man and a Patriot.
The Pubs were scum for PASSING AN IMPORTANT BILL without the DEms Participating. They did a "lets vote while they not here" thing, something out of gradeschool politics.

Incredible as it may sound, very few papers carried the true story, indicating a muffling of the truth. And many Pub sheep out there luv it this way, that the Dem voices are muted.

What the Pubs don realize is: They being "had" by those who use them.

All Tyrants use those below them to do the dirty work.
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alaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-03 02:35 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. Even Pelosi's resolution, which someone posted
above, leaves out the most important part of the Stark debacle, which was that Thoms never asked for objections, he just brought his gavel down, which was a breech of legislative process. If the jack-ass had followed normal procedure, he would have asked for objections and Stark would have objected and everything would have gone quite differently. I can't believe with this recorded error in the transcripts that they don't have to scrap the vote and start over. It's an abomination really.

And Jim McCrery made me absolutely nauseous when he interrupted Pelosi to ask for a copy of the resolution, probably some smart-ass jab referencing the dems late receipt of the pension bill; and then he had the nerve to make that sickeningly disingenuous apology. You'd think that with the President's credibility called into question, they'd want to keep on the up and up, but instead they get up and make total liars of themselves one after the other on national tv. Unreal.
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Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-03 03:27 AM
Response to Original message
29. Well I'm glad to hear SOMETHING stirred them to fight!
Edited on Mon Jul-21-03 03:38 AM by Dover
The stolen election, the anthrax incident, the dismantling of our Constitution and Bill of Rights, the collapsing economy, unprecidented secrecy in the WH and a list of lies so long that Pinnochio's nose grew into a redwood, and a devastating invasion of another country without provocation...to name just the most significant examples....weren't enough cause to fight. But THIS....this relatively insignificant Bill and typical GOP strongarm tactics was THE trigger eh? Give 'em hell.

Just think how things might have been different if the Dems HAD initially stood up to fight for Gore's election and investigated the voting fraud?
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-03 03:36 AM
Response to Original message
30. Did anyone notice the vote on the resolution?
and the subsequent "comments" by repugs after?

no surprise that the vote went right down party lines, the inconsistency came later when various reporters talked to a few "moderate" repugs (un-named of course). A few of the repugs said they thought calling of the police was way out of line and wrong - soooo if if was waay out of line and wrong why did these repugs vote "no"? Were they afraid? Covering their butts to please Hassert and Delay?

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