Ohio voting problems deemed severe

[deadparrot]

CLEVELAND - Problems with elections in Ohio's most populous county are so severe that it's unlikely they can be completely fixed by November, or even by the 2008 presidential election, a report commissioned by Cuyahoga County and released Tuesday says.

A nonprofit group hired to review the county's first election with new electronic voting machines found several problems with the May 2 primary, the results of which were delayed six days because roughly 18,000 absentee ballots had to be hand counted.

The absentee ballots had been improperly formatted for new optical scan voting machines. Poll workers also had problems operating the machines, some poll workers didn't show up, vote memory cards disappeared and one precinct opened hours late. Researchers also found that the four sources used to keep track of vote totals on machines did not always add up.

"The election system in its entirety exhibits shortcomings with extremely serious consequences, especially in the event of a close election," wrote Steven Hertzberg, director of the study by the San Francisco-based Election Science Institute

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ohio_voting

[BadGimp]

1. I reiterate my wager...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=2450104#2451157

The Voting Machines are in place and the game is fixed.

NO WAY The Bushistas, the Chennyites and the Rovians will allow a lawful transfer of power. They will do whatever is needed to prevent congress from falling into Democratic hands. They know all too well that the Democrats will launch a series of intense investigations that will expose te criminality of this administration and the collaborators in Congress and the private sector.

I will put up $1,000 as a bet, and let a 3rd party hold the money (edit). People can take $100 stakes if a grand is too much (edit).

My wager: Come the day after the November election, the GOP will have retained the majority.

any takers?

[autorank]

7. Two other paths to "retention" of the regime...

1) Centralized voter registration databases. The bipartisan Help America Vote Act called for cleaning these up. "Cleaning up" like Katherine Harris cleaned up the Florida registration databases by a bogus "felon" purge is maybe what they have in mind. This provides a rich opportunity to go after the poor who are not as easy to contact due to economic instability and low documentation.

2) THE BIG ONE...Voter Identification Requirements. The Carter-Baker Commission on our crappy elections endorsed Voter ID cards, to their eternal shame. Alabama, Georgia, and Missouri ran
right out and implemented restrictive voter ID requirements.

10-20% of voters may not have the requisite documentation to meet the Voter ID requirements. Subtract
their portion of the Democratic vote in those states with restrictive Voter ID and you've got the
percent we START IN THE HOLE on election day.

Who is minding the store?

[Benhurst]

10. No, because I fear you are right.

[Bandit]

24. Bush* ran on a meme of "I Trust the People"

Before he even entered office he made the comment "Only machines can be trusted as they are objective where people are subjective" So yes this is indeed in their plans..and people still think Bush* is a truthful man of God.... Before he even became pResident he came out with his big lie. :shrug: people just don't pay attention but claim they know what is going on...

[underpants]

27. 8%

I fear that you are right. They have gamed the system to the point that in some areas (here in Va.) we will have to beat them by a good 8% to eek out a win.

8% is what W supposedly won Va. by in 2004. Not one poll ever had him outside of 2 points nor the Margin of Error. There was a reason that the networks couldn't call Va. early that night-the exit polls had it a dead heat. It was fixed. I have no doubt about that.

[mopinko]

33. no thanks. i think they call this

a sucker bet.

[tom_paine]

34. I never bet on the success of evil, though I agree with you 100%

However, the Summer Propaganda Offensive has been extraordinarily successful from where I am sitting. This will once again make it close enough to easily steal for Fearless Fuhrer.

There is pretty much no question that these very bad people will do what it takes, regardless of legality or long-term harm to the nation, to maintain their power.

But again I say, if the Summer Propaganda Offensive of the Busheviks continues to be successful at muddying the waters using lies and trumped up or purposefully timed "revelations" (not to mention the big-time October Surprise that is coming up), then the 1 in 1000 chance that the will of the American People will be remotely served drops to 1 in 1,000,000,000.

[newscott]

36. They will gain seats and claim a mandate.

[autorank]

2. K&R Election Science Institute "fixing" problems - why not Boss Tweed?

From the article:

"The election system in its entirety exhibits shortcomings with extremely serious consequences, especially in the event of a close election," wrote Steven Hertzberg, director of the study by the San Francisco-based Election Science Institute.}"

Who is the Election Science Institute:

1) They thought New Mexico 2004 was just fine, nice election. Of course it was so bad that the
Governor eventually agreed with VoterAction.Org's law suit which pointed out that the state's
election system was a total mess election day. ESI MISSED THAT. Other's didn't'
Election Errors Threaten Future Voting Rights in New Mexico

Major Law Suit Under Way to Open Up "Secret" Workings of Voting Machines
Special Report for "Scoop" Independent Media
First in a Series By Michael Collins Nov. 2, 2005
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0511/S00067.htm

2) The ESI has spent a lot of time propping up the bogus final National Exit Poll by Warren Mitofsky, the poll that came 13 hours after his election day poll showed Kerry the winner 51%-48%. The final exit poll they defend isn't even a poll, it Incorporated "the election results" to show * won.

The election group that missed New Mexico and apologizes for a bogus National Exit Poll and can't even spot fraud under it's nose in the Southwest is going to fix Cleveland/Cuyahoga elections. Will
wonders never cease.

Lets find out who hired these folks.

[BadGimp]

3. RAIDERS??!!??

omg

At least we are on the right side of this topic :)

John Madden = The world's Greatest Football Fan - imho

[autorank]

8. Yes indeed! We both support "America's Team"

...and we know they are, I mean seriously.

Let's bring back that '70's spirit...


:hi:

[BadGimp]

9. bows out of sincere indeference....

[Kurovski]

13. So that's the Raiders emblem?

And all this time I thought it was the crest for some exclusive polo club. ;-)

[autorank]

15. Club "Fight Club"

O8)

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

18. "Raidertastic!"

:D

[mod mom]

19. Amen, brother!

I get flamed for bringing this up, but I highly suggest reading Hertzberg's bio from the ESI website:

http://www.hertzberg.org/

don't flame the messenger!

[Viva_La_Revolution]

4. duh!

We told them this 2 years ago.

[badgervan]

5. What Is Going On In Ohio?

Is Blackwell the King of Ohio or something? Why can't this guy be held accountable to the people, the law? Is Ohio so republican that a guy like Blackwell can get away with this vote rigging - again? C'
mon, Ohioans: sweep out the gargage!

[Judi Lynn]

6. Idiots! They are simply daring the public to do something about it.

Sure hope the public gets busy on this buncha criminals. They shouldn't be able to do it to us year after year after year.

[LeahD]

11. They did everything but say, "Stay home, folks, don't bother voting

in 2006 or 2008, because in reality, your vote probably won't be counted."

[Kurovski]

12. It just seems to me that paper ballots, hand counted,

will be cheaper, more reliable and easier in the long run than any machine at this point in time.

With machines, the "problems" and the battles, the studies and the "fixes' will go on and on and on and...

[donkeyotay]

26. The sniggling media in 2000 brought us chimpie and HAVA

After character assassinating Gore to make Chimpie's election seem plausible, they brought us the saga of the hanging chads - a charade as absurd as the passenger on board with vaseline today - but much longer and of greater consequence. Heck, they got the dems to help hang us and spend our taxes to for it to boot. The BFEE must laugh their asses off at us. But anyway, some how, some way, we were counting ballots up until that time. So why not fall back on actual tedious vote counting if electronic voting has been more inaccurate and fraudulent?

[Kurovski]

28. Why not indeed.

Hand counting paper ballots is in fact the gold standard for elections around the world in democratic nations.

So what are we? Chopped liver? Americans should demand the best.

[donkeyotay]

29. Maybe it's too hard, or maybe it's one of the jobs Murcans won't do

Maybe we could outsource it to China!
:evilgrin:

[anotherdrew]

30. yep, paper, pen and hand counts is the only way n/t

[wiley]

14. We have to watch every state. Work starts now.

[xchrom]

16. this ''we told you so moment'' brought to you by

liberals and progressives.

you know, those wacky far left folk.

[BeFree]

20. Yeah, those damn liberal tree huggers

Don't they know the gummint is trying to save paper?

Besides, e-voting is progress to the extreme. And who cares what those wacky lefties think?

We are so blessed to have the best democracy money can buy, and if we allow those who oppose bushco to hinder bushco's progress it will mean more trees cut and slower progress toward the end of time.

We told you so, eh?

[Kurovski]

23. Why do they hate that nice Joe Lieberman so much?

Why do they want the terraists to win? :cry:

[DoYouEverWonder]

17. They make it sound like it took 6 days to hand count

18,000. What day did the handcount begin? On day 6?

[Kelvin Mace]

22. As I keep explaining to folks

when you actually have to hand count ballots in a controlled environment, with ballots that have multiple races, this is not as easy as everyone likes to think. As someone who has been present at such counting, my advice is to actually try it and see.

[jfkraus]

21. Can it be done?

How does one request UN Election Monitors?

[Algorem]

25. A flawed system

A flawed system

http://www.cleveland.com/election/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/isele/1155728061203290.xml&coll=2

Wednesday, August 16, 2006

Cuyahoga County commissioners hired a team of experts to study electronic voting in the May primary. Their verdict: Worker blunders leave the system so flawed that determining a winner in a close election might be impossible.

An examination of results from 467 out of 5,407 Cuyahoga County machines showed:

More than 75 percent of the time, the votes recorded electronically didn't match the votes recorded on paper.

With more than a third of the machines, the discrepancy was greater than 25 votes.




10% of May ballots flawed
'Serious Consequences,' election experts say

http://www.cleveland.com/election/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/115571742986030.xml&coll=2

Wednesday, August 16, 2006
Joan Mazzolini
Plain Dealer Reporter

Nearly 10 percent of Cuyahoga County's official ballots in the May 2 primary were "destroyed, blank, illegible, missing, taped together or otherwise compromised," according to experts who studied the county's new electronic voting system.

That could have made a recount impossible in a close race, says the report, which was released Tuesday.

Ohio law says that the official ballot in touch-screen voting machines is a paper receipt produced by and stored inside the machines. The paper record, similar to a cash register receipt, allows voters to verify that their votes are recorded accurately.


But even when the paper receipts were legible in the May 2 primary, more than three-quarters of them listed vote tallies that did not match the electronic record in the touch-screen machines...



Elections employees' trial stalls; new judge named
Schedule conflicts point to Jan. start

http://www.cleveland.com/election/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/isele/1155727979203290.xml&coll=2

Wednesday, August 16, 2006
Jim Nichols
Plain Dealer Reporter

The election-rigging trial of three Cuyahoga County Board of Elections employees that was to start this week now could stall for months after the judge stepped aside amid the prosecutor's claims of bias.

Judge Judith Kilbane Koch recused herself last week after Special Prosecutor Kevin Baxter complained that she has political vendettas that led her to prejudge the case in favor of the defendants.

Presiding and Administrative Judge Nancy McDonnell reassigned the case to Judge Peter Corrigan on Monday, the day the trial was set to begin.

Corrigan has scheduled a pretrial conference for Friday. But Roger Synenberg, lawyer for one of the three defendants, said schedule conflicts make him unavailable to try the case until January...

[Buns_of_Fire]

32. "unavailable" until JANUARY???

Since when does council decide when a case is to be tried? I'm sure accommodations are made whenever possible... but JANUARY???

[Roy]

31. Isn't this Blackwell's responsibility?

Is this even a campaign issue for his opponent?
If he can't be trusted to keep the voting system from falling into shambles, then, how can he be trusted to efficiently run a higher office.

This should be a national expose', the silence on his incompetence is eerie.

[brentspeak]

35. So Blackwell is either the most incompetent Ohio Sec. of State ever

or, it's most corrupt. Either way, that's some resume to be running on.

[autorank]

37. Warning about this study: it's an excuse for the status quo!!! Fix it now

First of all, the problems with Cleveland are abundantly clear. Check this thread of incidents from Ohio 2006 primary, and look for Cleveland/Cuyahoga County - that's where most of incidents occur.

Ohio Problems with Primary 2006

Second, saying that it will take until 2008 is wrong and misleading. You do this...call the pathetic state of affairs an emergency, put the elections group in receivership and bring in several of the many talented registrars from around the country and fix it now! as in the next three weeks.

This report by ESI is effectively "cover" for a crappy election in Cleveland in 2006. It could be changed post haste but it won't. Saying nothing can be done now will allow some real gains for the Republicans statewide and also help Blackwell.

This is, imho, truly Rovian. Admit the problem and then set it up so it cannot be fixed until after you can take advantage of the problem.

Cleveland needs mega help but not this kind and not from this group.

[april]

38. ohio voting what is wrong take to the streets protest

we are to support our party give time and money where are the democratic leaders?
so why cant they just do the counts the old fair way???