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Virginia Dare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 05:39 PM
Original message
Breaking on ABC News: H. Clinton calls for Rumsfeld to Resign...
Edited on Thu Aug-03-06 05:44 PM by Virginia Dare
George Stephanopolous just broke it.

edit: says she will send a letter to Bush asking him to accept his resignation.
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LeftCoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
1. Good for her!
It's about time she started speaking out against this farce of a misadministration.
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OKNancy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. I agree
I don't care if someone said it before or if some think it's too late.
Good for Sen. Clinton.
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bigworld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
2. A little late to the party, Hil
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Better late than never!!
We make noise and gripe about what Democratic politicians AREN'T doing, and then when they do it....?

Personally, I applaud when they finally stand up and do what we've been wanting!! :applause:
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OKthatsIT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #5
110. its more like...we'll take any crumb we can get...at this point
Hillary is a Globalist...she has been picked by the Elite to be our next President. But her record still stinks at home. Where has she been while our country goes to hell? It's all part of the Global plan...beware.
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #2
48. Just because you haven't been paying attention
doesn't mean she hasn't been doing it all along.
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bling bling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #48
61. Thank you!
I started pulling links from articles over the past few years to show how this isn't the first time Hillary has criticized the administration on Iraq.

Then I thought, have I lost my mind? Why in the world would I think anybody would pay attention to that. All I'd get in return for my efforts is nothing.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 02:43 AM
Response to Reply #48
82. If she'd been doing it "all along" this wouldn't be news. n/t
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LuckyChoice Donating Member (31 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
53. Maybe she's just worried
because of the terrible showing of Joe L in the polls. She's someone who will go in any direction depending on the polls, but it's nothing to do with personal conviction. IMHO.
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Nightjock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #53
102. Ditto!
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samsingh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #2
62. who else is better?
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #62
91. Meet Defense Secretary Condoleezza Rice.
:scared:
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #2
70. Little Hil in her little glass bubble dreaming about her lalala presidency
Meanwhile all of Humanity fries!!!
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #2
109. A little late to the party?- nah! no-way!! go Hillary, you go darlin...
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
3. When Kerry called for FIRING Rummy 2x including after Abu Ghraib the media
Edited on Thu Aug-03-06 06:15 PM by blm
didn't think it was important. And how many Dem senators backed him up on that call, either the first time or the second?
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. True -- and when Gore made the speech calling on ALL of them to resign
the only discussion was about his sweat, his "yelling," and etc...

Maybe people are getting ready to hear it, finally.

And maybe it does ring differently to people when it comes from Senator Clinton? Not because she's so "moderate" as seen here, but because her wider rep is for being some radical feminist liberal "angry, bitter, bitchy" whacko. She really does take a chance on having that caricature thrown back at her when she takes them on.

In any case, I'm glad she did this.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Think how it would have helped if more senators backed up Kerry on this
in 2003 and 2004. Bush had plenty of senators backing him on his horseshit, but how many Dem senators would back Kerry on important matters like holding Rummy accountable for Abu Ghraib?

Focking Biden called for Rummy to resign in Dec 2004. Why the FOCK couldn't he spend the summer of 2004 on TV saying the exact same thing? Because he promised Bush he wouldn't "politicize Iraq" during the campaign. Focking idiot.
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. I see your point.
No doubt about it -- it would have meant a lot.
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Patchuli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #7
19. I think we have some residual fondness for Hill
since she was First Lady for so long in such good times but the true leaders of the Dem party called for an end to this long ago (and for it never to begin!)

I also think the media's being told to push Hillary (on us) as the Dem pres candidate and not Gore. That's because they know Hill won't win but Gore can! The media licks the hands of their masters...
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dreamsvsnightmares Donating Member (36 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #19
105. Excellent Point:! She has become the poster child for the Dems.
which proves they only care about who they think might be elected. She does not stand for the people who are really hurting in this country. She stands for the rich and the powerful be them repubs or dems.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #3
25. Nor did Sen. Clinton.
Wonder what sparked her recent conversion?
Could it be a Primary challenger, and JoeNoMentum's problems?

Regardless, Hillary is wonderful when she is throwing bombs!
:patriot:
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Pale Blue Dot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #25
47. "JoeNoMentum's problems"
Hmmm... you think? :D
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #47
99. Finnfan, was that you who predicted this in an earlier thread? I
know someone here at DU posted after the hearing yesterday that Hillery might be getting ready to finally call for Rummy's resignation, given Joe's difficulties in CT.
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #25
54. No realistic primary challenger
My sense is - she has to play the politics game. Now she sees is her moment to make this break. Whatever the issues with timing etc. It IS a good thing.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #3
39. After Abu Ghraib, Kerry called on Rumsfeld to resign
(as did Dean a day later) He called on Bush to fire him several times and at least once had a petition for people to sign.

At this point, Rumsfelt being replaced may not even be much help. Diplomacy - which is not the provinence of the Defense Department - is the main thing needed. Sadly, in 2003 changing the Secretary of Defense could have helped. (Replacing the President with either Gore in 2001 - who really won in 2000 or by electing Kerry in 2004 would have worked better - as that's where the real policy decisions are made.)
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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #3
41. Hillary apparently "gets it" with Lieberman's impending primary loss.
Her call rings hollow and politically opportunistic at this point, as she was AWOL when Kerry repeatedly called for Rummy's resignation.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #41
52. and when it would do the most good for regime change here in the US.
Imagine if all those who are willing to say it now were on tv everyday backing up Kerry on this when he first called for it in 2003 and 4.
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #41
101. It's better she "get it" then not
Proof that she can read a poll as well as anyone, and more importantly, that she's working for the people who elected her.
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Ladydawnelle Donating Member (122 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
4. A little late!
Hillary is a day late and a dollar short imo.

Same with Joe L all of a sudden challenging BUSH on his war policy.

Both trying to save their OWN butts as they are only hanging by a few threads.

Pander left, pander right, which ever way the wind blows for their OWN selfish gains.

jmo

meanwhile Rome burns! :-\
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Again.... Better late than never.
We can't urge them to stand up, whine that they aren't standing up, write letters telling them to stand up, etc., and then when they stand up, say, "A little late."

Maybe it IS late, but when they go the direction we want, kudos are in order, imho.
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Ladydawnelle Donating Member (122 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #9
32. I'll give her credit for her votes lately
She's gotten better but I'm still no fan. I pray she does NOT run for president or we are doomed again to lose. And give it all away to the demon pugs. I hope Hillary is more smart then she is greedy for power and realizes she couldn't get the votes even from her own party. She should take Reid up on his "supposed" offer and wait a few more years.

just my opinion. I'm not a fan of MOST of the DLC lately. I dislike pandering even though I realize that pretty much sums up politics in general. :-\
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. I agree
I truly hope she doesn't run for president.

AND I agree that much of this goes along with being a politician...
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bling bling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #32
63. You know, that's really sexist.
If she runs for President it is NOT because she's "greedy for power." This woman has 4 decades worth of political service to her country. Maybe she thinks she'd be a good leader for our country. Personally, I agree. And it is her right, and her goddamn well-earned right to run if she wants to. Just as it's the right of Americans not to vote for her if they don't want to.

If you want to hold someone back from running for office, it should be because of his/her traits or characteristics. We should NEVER, EVER try to hold someone back for running for office because of their race or gender. The problem with Hillary is, that people want to hold her back because of her gender but they pretend it's because of other things. Being that those "other things" are usually lies or mischaracterizations or based on total double standards, it's really easy to see right through it.

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Patchuli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #63
69. I don't think it's gender,
I don't think she can win. And Dems MUST win.
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PinkyisBlue Donating Member (617 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #32
75. I really hope she doesn't run for POTUS, either.
She is too divisive, and she doesn't stand a chance of winning. Unlike with Ralph Nader in 2000, I hope she puts the people and party over personal ambitions and puts her energy into someone who has a chance of winning (maybe a Gore/Edwards ticket)?
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Nightjock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #32
103. Totally agree!
Though I don't think she would win the primaries to be our candidate.
The impending Lieberman loss shows this country is sick of the war and wants the killing to stop.
Hillary has been a little bit of an enabler for bush. Remember when she said we need more troops there earlier this year?
Dem voters are not Repugs. We think for ourselves and the majority will not vote for her. IMO.....
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #9
55. totally agree
Edited on Thu Aug-03-06 07:23 PM by JoFerret
Push and push and then whatever the time - celebrate (unless it is a clear cynical move to damp the fire of a good challenger - not the case for H. Clinton.)
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flordehinojos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
8. political posturing on the part of hillary,No.1. and No.2 she knows bush
will wipe his ass with her letter.
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Monkeyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
10. any links
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #10
45. Yeah, here it is:
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
12. LOL! What a fucking Joke!
And repleace him with whom warmonger Hil? Your best bud Lieberman? Give me a fucking break! These asshat Dems keep blaming people instead of the POLICY of a "CLEAN BREAK"! Hil and the rest of the neocon Dems are still supporting the neocon PNAC plan.

:puke:
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. I don't think she is still supporting the neocon PNAC plan.
She made a very strong statement today, pointing out how clearly, and disastrously, they've failed.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #17
34. how the lack of "preparation" made the war fail
and "lack of the right leadership". Like that would have made a fucking difference.
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #12
76. That was my concern also....
if the DLC Dems are finally turning against our military presence in the Middle East then that would be great, but what if she wants a bigger hawk to take control and really push through the PNAC initiative? Don't get me wrong, I've wanted Rumsfeld gone for a long time.
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patricia92243 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
13. Just because Hillary asks Bush to accept Rums resignation, does not mean
that he will. Bush will never admit he is wrong, and by letting Rumsfield go, he would be doing just that.
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ktowntennesseedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:01 PM
Response to Original message
14. Who does she think she is?! She's not the "decider!"
Can't wait to hear the Snow-job reply for this one! Way to go, Hillary!

:kick:
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #14
29. soon to be (maybe?)
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wellst0nev0ter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:01 PM
Response to Original message
15. Here's An Idea: Let's Agree That Rumsfailed Should Resign
instead of grumbling about who came late to the party.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. I second that.
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Ladydawnelle Donating Member (122 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #18
38. Resign? lmao!
I'd of had him drawn and quartered!!

or at LEAST FIRED HIS INEPT AND ANCIENT BUTT!! But Nooooooooo this administration gives MEDALS in place of PINK slips!!

CHICKEN HAWKS SUCK!!!
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Connie_Corleone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #15
40. Thank you for saying that.
Any time someone posts something about Hillary, it turns into an "anti-Hillary" thread.

Yes, everyone knows Biden and Kerry called for his resignation a couple of years ago. The media thinks it's a big deal when Hillary does it because she's HILLARY CLINTON.

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petgoat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #15
50. Let's not agree that Rumsfeld should resign. In pushing for
his resignation we will allow Bush to crate the impression that someone has
been held accountable for the Iraq war and for 9/11. The culpability goes
all the way to the top, and letting Rumsfeld fall on his sword actually
serves Bush.

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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 01:55 AM
Response to Reply #50
79. I might agree with that strategy if this were another issue.
But perhaps the Democrats are attempting to keep more of our troops from being slaughtered by Rummy's incompetence as opposed to just getting Bush this time.

I hear ya, but no one is going to ever separate Bush & Iraq.
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
20. Oh, he didn't do her nation building to her satisfaction?
And now she's stamping he high heels in frustration, wanting a new commander to go and make Iraq into a nice friendly democracy?

Give me a frickin' break
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:10 PM
Response to Original message
21. One thing Bush has proven is that he can always come up with
someone worse. Conci replaced the compete tent but corrupt Powell. Gonzales the inquisitor replaced Ashcroft the fundamentalist prude.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
22. I can stand Hillary Clinton.
But a few more days like today and she might win me over.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
23. well, Rummy has said he serves at the pleasure of the Pres.
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Demobrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
24. Yawn.
Wake me when she calls for immediate troop withdrawal.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
26. Jim Lehrer new Hours is talking of the meeting now. ? Hil coming up?
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Levin talking now. (cbs actually started their news with Iraq vs Israel
today)
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. "you are preciding over a failed policy"--te he!--rummy is in a tizzy!
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
28. Excellent! Here's a better idea:
Rumsfeld should be fired and the troops should be withdrawn from Iraq.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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Malva Zebrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
30. Has she in any way attempted to explain her vote to give Bush
unfettered access to invade and occupy Iraq? Is she addressing that, or is she just ignoring it. Many of us are resentful of that vote and yet she forges on in these sensational attacks on Rumsfeld, that many before her who did NOT vote to invade Iraq and give a maniac complete control over the military ivansion and occupation that cost hundreds of thousands of innocent lives. they are dead, Hillary. DEAD and you voted for that initiative.

Address that and then, and only then, will I give you any credit because now it seems to me you are jumping on the sensationalism bandwagon.

ADDRESS YOUR VOTE HILLARY I am waiting. Can you? Will you? Or do you prefer to "make it go away" by playing this politics game.

Many before have called for the resignation of Rumsfeld. You are making a big deal of it and you MUST address your vote. I will never ever vote for you and y our support of the slaughter in Iraq. NEVER

No matter how "testy" you get. No m,atter the headlines. YOU voted to give this incometant man fully the right to invade, and occupy Iraq and you must have known he LIED to do so. If I knew he was LYING, a mere senior citizen who tries to keep up with the news, than surely YOU with all your resources, must have known, or at the least had some doubts.

NO way Huillary and I am not impressed at all with this latest sensationalism. I prefer the Conyers approach, and the Feingold approach, but apparently, you did not support that either. This villification of Rumsfeld is far safer than either of those approaches-politically that is.

ADDRESS YOUR VOTE HILLARY. Fess up or continue on to try and gloss it over. Those of us in the know, who have been following it, c annot accept your attempts to get the spotlight by an attack on Rumsfeld. It will come to naught--and calling for his resignation--well Bush must be laughing at you and I think you know it.

I don't want you or any of the war mongers, who supported this horrific excursion into killing and devastation and occupation and chaos, coming in after the fact that you supported it, to now pretend you are "against" it.

We are sick and tired of spin and obfuscation and that is exactly what you are doing. If you cannot come clean and continue on in this mode, you aare as sickening as Lieberman--who your husband supports.
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bling bling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #30
64. Yes.
Have you in any way attempted to do any research to find it?

Google Hillary+Iraq. You'll find links that include the explanation of her vote.
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Malva Zebrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #64
104. No, I have not. Why? because I , an ordinary person, with no clout and no
staff, froze my ass off protesting to prevent this slaughter because I knew, and most of us here on DU KNEW that this was all a put up front, embellished with lies and with the purpose of a man, obssessed with invading Iraq since 9-11, who was so obssessed that he lied and we KNEW IT.

Hillary Clinton, with all her access did not know it? And what is her excuse? She was "fooled"? HEH, what does that say about all the other Democrats who did NOT vote for the folly of Bush, determined on his way to slaughter and kill? What do you say about their vote? They were "uninformed"? Well it is obvious they were right and she was wrong and I could forgive that if she fessed up, as did John Edwards. But she has tried to avoid it, cover it up and now is coming out with the "testy" personna, as she will bid for the nomination of the presidency. I could perhaps try to understand if she would come clean, but she is NOT, which makes me believe that she really wanted the war, and the suffering and killing and the mayhem, that, for a woman of her supposed intelligence, would certainly have been aware. Were they stupid or was she stupid or did she really want this invasion? Those who did not rubber stamp this action, are the real, moral heroes and they have NO reason to hide their vote. She does

and she is.
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bling bling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #104
107. Apparently I misunderstood your post.
Your headline asked "has she in any way attempted to explain her vote" and my response was yes.

You, and many others here and who protested were apparently the enlightened ones when it came to not believing the lies from the BFEE. In hindsight, it is easy to see that this administration is a group of crooks, liars, and thugs. At the time, however, most Americans still sort-of believed that our government wouldn't dupe us into going into war. I remember even discussing it with one of my repub relatives. I expressed my doubts about the whole situation but even still, there was a part of me that thought it almost inconceivable that the leaders would could be so evil as to manipulate us into a war. I think Colin Powell's speech to the U.N. was what made most people feel secure in the belief that it was in our best interest to remove Hussein.

Hilliary has explained her reasons for her vote. She has explained that when Clinton was in office they thought there were WMD's. In her speech where she voted yes she said something about not abusing the authority and only going to war as a last resort.

Perhaps it's unforgiveable to some people. I disagree but I can respect that opinion. My problem with most people who use that argument, however, is that they only use it to belligerantly attack Hillary any time her name comes up. They don't seem to feel the need to exercise such passionate hostility towards all or ANY of the other Dems who voted the same way Hillary did. When's the last time you saw Harry Reid's name in a thread that contained any posts at all that so much as brought up his yes vote on the IWR? It's a double standard. That's my problem with it.
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Pastiche423 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #30
65. Exactly what she ^ said
Malva Zebrina, I've always looked forward to reading your posts. You put my feelings into words so much better than I ever could.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
35. I think Hillary is looking over her shoulder at Liberman's
downfall... She was a cheerleader of the Iraq War...

Rumsfeld is incompetent Liar and thief

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lanlady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
36. Hil's starting to feel Lieberman's pain
She finally got the memo: Northeast Democrats are sick of their senators pandering to the Southern conservatives. Duh!
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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #36
42. Very well put, lanlady!
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tinfoilinfor2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #36
43. She can hear Lieberman crying behind door number one.
And she can hear thunderous applause and shouts of "Gore, Gore, Gore" behind door number two.

I wonder which one lit the firecracker under her rear-end more??
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #36
44. You beat me to it, lanlady. It's all about Lieberman going down the toilet
Bill was just campaigning for the jackass this weekend and then, oops the polls show that Joe is losing now to Lamont. Joe, who voted for the Iraqi War...just like Hillary. And Joe, who attacke Congressman Murtha...just like Hillary.

The Clintons need to go away and give the Democratic Party a chance to win again.
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Barkley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #36
49. Write on lanlady!
Lamont will win the primary and the Senate seat.

This will encourage others to unseat the Dems that
continue to support the illegal war in Iraq.

Iraq is in a civil war and we're in the middle of it.
Rumsfeld is a good start but Bush is the problem.

Firing Rumy won't Bring Our Troops Home (sooner).

We've got a fundamental problem: pre-emptive war.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #36
56. yeah well she still has not denounced the PNAC plan for the ME
she still has a long way to go. Or be voted out! :)
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bling bling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #36
66. Wrong.
Do some research, inform yourself. Please. STOP spreading shit that isn't true. Hillary has stood up to this administration on the issue of Iraq many times before this. Long before the whole Lieberman debacle.
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RadiDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #36
74. BINGO!
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rosesaylavee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
37. I don't care who is saying it today...
I think all the Dem senators should step up and ask for the idiots resignation.

Good for her to add her voice to the growing list of Senators who have asked.
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daydreamer Donating Member (503 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
46. Who want's to clean up his mess?
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Olney Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
51. A deal has been cut somewhere- Rummy won't resign.
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Generator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
57. Wow! Just how close IS Mrs. (don't call her Hilary) Clinton to the Prez?
I mean she asks and he delivers, is that the ticket? Ha ha ha. I hope not :wow:

Of course, as Kerry fans present past and future know he asked for this at least a thousand dead soldiers and many more dead Iraqi's ago.

That Hil (oops I did it AGAIN) such the rebel.
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FreeStateDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
58. Demand the CIC resign, he wanted this war, he broke it and can't fix it.
Rummy is merely a scapegoat to the real problem that we have a maniac in the White House or two if count Darth Vader. Hillary ain't showing me anything by jumping on the bandwagon after Kerry and Murtha have already displayed courage by fighting the unpopular (with corp. media) fight and taking the abuse to make it safe for others to pose and grab some easy headlines.
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bling bling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #58
67. No. Rumsfeld is not merely a scapegoat.
He and Cheney are also entirely involved and just as responsible as Bush for the Iraq mess. He is filth. The rammifications of this man's input and decisions on the matter of Iraq include the death of many soldiers and many people in Iraq. He's no mere scapegoat.
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FreeStateDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 05:15 AM
Response to Reply #67
84. Rumsfield goes and the problems remains with Bush/Cheney calling shots
We know he will be replaced with someone who will continue to prosecute the same administration policies so what is accomplished other than a distraction. The spotlight needs to be focused on the elected officials who are ultimately most responsible for this fiasco, Bush/Cheney so they can be removed them from office. You are obviously right he has acted in an irresponsibe manner and has the blood of thousands of people on his hands but his impact would have been minimal without the authority of the CIC providing him the with the opportunity to arrogantly mishandle a war that never should have happened.
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neilepi Donating Member (140 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
59. Doesn't happen very often...
...but I had to look up "excoriated" in an online dictionary - in the context the meaning is abundantly clear in the article but it's just not a word I'm familar with or have ever used and I was curious to discover what the nuances were.

excoriate \ek-SKOR-ee-ayt\, transitive verb:
1. To express strong disapproval of; to denounce.
2. To tear or wear off the skin of.


Seems that it was "Word of the Day" on August 11th 2003 and an example of usage is given in this passage: "In his speech to Congress of May 16th -- a speech that France found very insulting -- the President's "rage almost choked his utterance," as he excoriated the French for rejecting his ambassador, urged defensive measures against French dangers from abroad, and warned about French dangers at home.
-- Richard N. Rosenfeld, American Aurora"

If the load time on the dictionary site was anything to go by I wasn't alone in looking it up.

Can't honestly imagine Hillary enraged to that extent over something which is clearly very calculated and politically-motivated. I'm not suggesting for a minute that she thinks anything other than that Rumsfeld should resign but merely that the timing of her attack and call for him to go is entirely politically driven and probably very controlled on her part(IMO).

I hold out no optimism that anything will result from this. Bush seems to be big on loyalty and small on integrity and performance, to say nothing about his unshakeable belief that he and his team are getting it right. In situations like thia he reminds me somewhat of the Emperor with no clothes.

On a totally different, but equally infuriating, issue how on earth is it that the Administration managed to ignore the Valerie Plame situation last year and apparently get away with it? Wasn't that enough to bring someone down?

Neil

PS Perhaps I should design a "Hillary Excotiates" t-shirt for my CafePress store or better still a cartoon of Bush saying to Rumsfeld "She exor-whatted you?" or perhaps "She exorcised you?"
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Gloria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #59
60. Maybe she really means to "exfoliate" Rummy.....her action is
politically calculated and will have no effect. VOTES mean something....
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
68. WOW!! Hillary? You're real tough finally after 6 damn years!!!
:sarcasm:
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #68
71. The impending Lieberman defeat may have awaken her
We need to impeach the whole lot of them!
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Gully Foyle Donating Member (121 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #68
72. He
Run hil run.
But you still can't hide.
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RangerSmith Donating Member (488 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 07:48 AM
Response to Reply #68
88. and, she was sitting in front of him
just minutes before.

Why didn't she make the statement then?

You know, I can't stand what rumsfeld has done to this country, but her whole line of questioning was pure bullshit. The one thing that clown has done repeatedly is stress the difficulties of all this shit. It's almost like Hillary is saying, "well, I thought you meant it would be easy so I went along with you"

It just seems like it's all pandering and posturing for votes. She doesn't have either the instincts or the care to do it because it's right.
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dreamsvsnightmares Donating Member (36 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #68
106. Thank You!
That was PERFECT.
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
73. If she had supported this requests any of the many times Kerry
called for Rumsfeld's regulation, I would have respected her request.Other Dem's like Feingold have also doe the same thing. That Clinton's request comes now when things are bad in Iraq and the polls support major dissatisfaction with this administration and the Iraq war makes me question her leadership and her honesty on concerning this issue. I say she is to late to actually make a difference at this point.
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Exiled in America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #73
90. Well said.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 01:04 AM
Response to Original message
77. Hilary, you are YEARS TOO LATE.
And meanwhile, we have had to suffer the YEARS of your inattention.

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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 01:50 AM
Response to Original message
78. Good for her- Primaries aside- I'm glad she joined the chorus on this.
All y'all complaining about this- come on- dont let some primary preference cause you to downplay it when a DEM does something right!

"Correct them when they are wrong, but praise them when they do right" would be my motto for partisan Democrats.
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 02:32 AM
Response to Original message
80. but
bush is the "decider" and he thinks rummy is doing a 'heckava job'
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dailykoff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 02:36 AM
Response to Original message
81. Next up: Hillary demands explanation for Watergate break-in
hey, better late than never :)
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 03:57 AM
Response to Original message
83. Granted he didn't pull out a paintbrush or a tube of Carmine

(Carmine)

http://democrats.senate.gov/dpc/dpc-new.cfm?doc_name=fs...
Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld:

"Think of the faces in Afghanistan when the people were liberated, when they moved out in the streets and they started singing and flying kites and women went to school and people were able to function and other countries were able to start interacting with them. That's what would happen in Iraq." (Media Roundtable, 9/13/02)

http://thinkprogress.org/2006/08/03/rumsfeld-iraq-rosy /
Rumsfeld: I Have Never Painted A Rosy Picture About Iraq

Testifying before the Senate today, Donald Rumsfeld told Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-NY) that he has never painted a rosy picture about Iraq. Rumsfeld insisted that he has been very measured and told Clinton you would have a dickens of a time trying to find instances where I have been overly optimistic.

Heres just a few of the overly optimistic comments made by Rumsfeld (and no, we did not have a dickens of a time finding them):

Dec. 18, 2002: KING: Whats the current situation in Afghanistan? RUMSFELD: It is encouraging. They have elected a government through the Loya Jirga process. The Taliban are gone. The al Qaeda are gone.

Feb. 7, 2003: It is unknowable how long that conflict will last. It could last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months.

Feb. 20 2003: Do you expect the invasion, if it comes, to be welcomed by the majority of the civilian population of Iraq? Jim Lehrer asked the defense secretary on PBS The News Hour. There is no question but that they would be welcomed, Rumsfeld replied, referring to American forces.

Mar. 30, 2003: It happens not to be the area where weapons of mass destruction were dispersed. We know where they are. Theyre in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat.
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mogster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 07:15 AM
Response to Original message
85. Good. Find a crack, then widen it
Rumsfeld is their weak spot, definitely. Rumsfeld and Rove.
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lebkuchen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 07:23 AM
Response to Original message
86. Good. Rummy's A list puppetmaster to the fiasco,
along with Cheney, which is why Bush hasn't sent him packing yet.

It's good to see pressure continuing to build on Bush to get rid of Rummy. If he doesn't oust him by November, I predict the dems will take over Congress, both houses.
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LeftHander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 07:34 AM
Response to Original message
87. Rumsfeld resigns Bush appoints Brownie......
569 Arabian horses sent to Iraq...
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Exiled in America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 07:56 AM
Response to Original message
89. Hey! Three cheers for political stunts!
Hey! It's cominging up Presidential Elections! I'd better start checking polls and pandering....

Whatever, I'll take people stating the truth no matter what their motivations are.
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BigDDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
92. Headline: HILLARY CURES CANCER!!!!
DU: Oh, so when did YOU become a scientist??
What took you so long war monger??
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #92
93. Bad analogy
Curing cancer would be an amazing, immense accomplishment. It would been wildly praised, in fact all the more so as she accomplished it without having the typical background.

Saying in Aug 2006, that Rumsfeld should be fired and getting praise is like cheering when a 7 year old of normal intelligence sings the abc song, showing she knows her abc's. Praise and applause would have been due in either case if it had been done 3 years earlier. Praising Hillary wildly for this now is similar to wildly applauding the 7 year old.
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BigDDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #93
95. It wasnt an analogy....
Im just making the obvious point that NO MATTER WHAT she did some people will always rip her to shreds. The Hillary haters will never
give her credit for anything, ever.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #95
98. I think that in this case the thread was DESIGNED
to get negative comments. There were at 3 threads yesterday on this - and, at least when I saw them, I was surprised that they were mostly positive. People were happy that she hit him hard - as they were back in January with the plantation comment.

This thread though michevioueously says ALL the Democrats should "find the courage" to follow her in this. The OP is now playing innocent - but the question is who are the Democrats who can "follow her" on this? Joe Lieberman??? It hits a chord because she has stayed quiet whenever something was controversial. She has taken no risks. This is fine and her choice, but it is not ok that she does this and then is magically seen as a leader on something like this.

This is Hillary, who made a pretty speech on how bad Alito was, then made it very clear that she didn't want a filibuster, then voted for the filibuster when Kennedy and Kerry led it and forced the issue. She, however didn't lift a single finger to influence anyone to join - and it was her hand picked leader, Reid who was against it.

Hillary is (or is playing) a centralist Democrat - she is not leading on this.
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
94. I don't really care for her, but this is a step in the right direction.
Good, Hillary. Keep walking the walk. :)
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IronLionZion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
96. Must be an election year
Is it absolutely politically safe yet?
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BigDDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #96
97. Dont know...
maybe she could go on the 700 Club with Howard Dean and find out.
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
100. Well, she gets that part right
Senator Clinton knows that there are so many things wrong with the war and occupation of Iraq that all she needs to do is say "I think the Bushies blew it" and many will read their own idea of "blew it" into it.

Of course Rumsfeld should resign.

Now, is she ready to impeach Bush for war crimes for lying his way into Iraq in the first place? Or does she think that was good idea?
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citizen snips Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
108. Good for her
she is starting to gain my respect back.
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