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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:44 AM
Original message
U.S. Gen. Abizaid says civil war possible in Iraq

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N03220596.htm

U.S. Gen. Abizaid says civil war possible in Iraq

WASHINGTON, Aug 3 (Reuters) - The head of the U.S. Central Command on Thursday said sectarian violence in Baghdad was as bad as he has ever seen and could lead to a civil war.

"Sectarian violence probably is as bad as I've seen it, in Baghdad in particular," Army Gen. John Abizaid told the Senate Armed Services Committee. "If not stopped, it is possible that Iraq could move toward civil war."
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MrCoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:46 AM
Response to Original message
1. It's possible...
That the sun will come up tomorrow, too.
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Lowell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
2. The General must have his eyes closed
all the troops I'm in contact with say Iraq has been in a civil war for months now. He should leave his air conditioned office sometime and stroll down the green zone. Better yet lead a few patrols through the streets of Baghdad with the troops doing the real fighting. Iraq is a clusterfuck. Sunni and Shiite will quit shooting at each other and concentrate on any American troops who near their fire zones.
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
3. 'N the Souths gonna do it again ... and again
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BOSSHOG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
4. Its been possible for along time General
Its sad that every time someone connected with bush speaks about Iraq I question their motives. Is the General saying this because of orders from the white house to ease the bush base into accepting failure or is the general realizing honesty is the best policy? And if he is talking freely will he soon be relieved of his duties and forced to retire?
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karlrschneider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #4
32. Barry McCaffrey just said on M$NBC
"element of denial with Rummy & co. He's becoming irrelevant, Iraq has been in a low grade civil
war for over 2 years" (paraphrasing...it might have been a repeat, I was outta pocket this morning)
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
5. Man, you just don't know where to start with this.
He's like the main man in charge of this mess, right? He talks about it like it was the weather or something.
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BOSSHOG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Your post reminded me
of one of my favorite post Katrina quotes from the New Orleans area. One Parrish official was asked about his reaction to bush's visit to New Orleans and if he was happy with the president's visit.

"Bush's response to the hurricane was akin to someone telling you they are sorry your cat died."
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. Yeah, that's it: "Have a nice day".
"Welcome to WalMart"
"Your satisfaction is important to us"
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RUZIK1 Donating Member (49 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
6. POSSIBLE!!!!
It's been going on since the US upset the apple cart. This is a civil war General Dumbo! It took even longer for the military to recognize a civil war in Vietnam. There are no liberators here, only an occupier with a Vichy style puppet.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
7. Civil war 'more likely' in Iraq: outgoing British ambassador
LONDON (AFP) - Britain's outgoing ambassador to
Iraq has warned that civil war is the "more likely" outcome there than a transition to stable democracy, according to details obtained by the BBC.

William Patey reportedly told British government ministers in a confidential memo that Iraq was likely to break-up along ethnic lines because of the continuation of sectarian violence.

The ambassador made the assessment in his final telegram -- which the BBC said it had seen -- before leaving the Iraqi capital last week.

It was addressed to Prime Minister
Tony Blair and senior ministers, including the foreign and defence secretaries plus military top brass, it added.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060803/wl_afp/iraqunrestb...
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Eugene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
9. Could? What does the general consider as Civil War? Another Lebanon?
Offical figures show another 1000 dead in July and
the best efforts of the government aren't slowing
the killing down. Iraq already is in a civil war.

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dxdem Donating Member (246 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
11. Money on
the fact that this gets zero coverage in the face of Israel/Hizb'allah stuff...
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
12. Generals raise fears of Iraq civil war
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060803/ap_on_go_co/us_iraq ;_ylt=ArxpqIbFOgpD59B8WCNcYD6s0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--

Generals raise fears of Iraq civil war

By ANNE PLUMMER FLAHERTY, Associated Press Writer 10 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - Two of the
Pentagon's most senior generals told Congress on Thursday that the surge in sectarian violence in Baghdad in recent weeks raises the possibility of Iraq descending into civil war.


"Iraq could move toward civil war" if the violence is not contained, Gen. John Abizaid, the top U.S. commander in the Middle East, told the
Senate Armed Services Committee.

"I believe that the sectarian violence is probably as bad as I have seen it," he said, adding that the top priority in Iraq is to secure the capital, where factional violence has surged in recent weeks despite efforts by the new Iraqi government to stop the fighting.
President Bush last week approved an increase in the number of U.S. troops in Baghdad as part of a new effort to help Iraqi security forces get a grip on the sectarian tensions.

Abizaid also said under questioning that it was possible that U.S. casualties could rise as a result of the battle to contain sectarian violence in the capital.

"I think it's possible that in the period ahead of us in Baghdad that we'll take increased casualties that's possible," he said.

Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told the panel, "We do have the possibility of that devolving into civil war." He added that this need not happen and stressed that ultimately it depends on the Iraqis more than on the U.S. military.
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Omaha Steve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #12
20. Full AP link
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kurth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
13. Violence PROBABLY bad?
The whole place is going down the toilet fast, dude.
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bluedeminredstate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
14. Horrifyingly funny
The headline falls into the No-Shit-Sherlock category. They must think every American is as dumb as a haddock.
:wow:
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
15. Is there an IQ test to become a general?
Does Abizaid think we're that dumb, or is he that dumb? "If not stopped, it is possible that Iraq could move toward civil war." What in the world does he think is going on right now, as Iraqis are killing each other by the hundreds every day? And does he think that this bloodshed and carnage is going completely unnoticed in the United States?
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
16. CNN: Abizaid - "Iraq Violence Is Probably As Bad As I've Seen It"
Edited on Thu Aug-03-06 11:17 AM by Hissyspit
'Civil War in Iraq Possible...' Um, only for those who are spinning. Everyone else knows it's been civil war for quite a while.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/08/03/iraq.hearing/ind...

Head of command: Civil war in Iraq possible
Abizaid: 'Sectarian violence is probably as bad as I've seen it'


WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The head of U.S. Central Command, Gen. John Abizaid, acknowledged Thursday that Iraq could descend into civil war.

"I believe that the sectarian violence is probably as bad as I've seen it, in Baghdad in particular. And that if not stopped, it is possible that Iraq could move toward civil war," he testified before the Senate Armed Services Committee.

"Failure to apply coordinated regional and international pressure ... will further extremism" and could lead to a widening and more perilous conflict, he said.

- snip -

Abizaid defined three main objectives in dealing with the Middle East, which he said he has "rarely seen ... so unsettled and so volatile." Those aims were defeating al Qaeda; deterring Iran; and developing a comprehensive solution to the Arab-Israeli conflict. Senators fear that the war between Israel and Hezbollah militants in Lebanon could threaten missions in places like Iraq.

MORE
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. i don`t know...i could be just blood lust
why else would someone blow up kids during soccer practice? it really doesn`t matter if it`s called a civil war,revenge,criminal organizations and religious wars tens thousands of iraqis are dead and more will die. iraqi`s are killing each other and we are powerless to stop it . we had our chance to stabilize iraq a few days upon entering bagdad but that was not the goal of the whitehouse
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MrCoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. 3 main objectives
And where are we in terms of progress on those three objectives, General? Hmmm?
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PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
19. Wow, he's good!
This is nothing short of perspicacity.
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MrCoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #19
27. This is nothing short of covering his ass
And the asses of the brass who thought we'd be greeted as liberators.
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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
21. LAT/AP: Senior Pentagon Generals Raise Fears of Iraq Civil War
Generals Raise Fears of Iraq Civil War
By ANNE PLUMMER FLAHERTY, Associated Press Writer
August 3, 2006

WASHINGTON -- Two of the Pentagon's most senior generals told Congress on Thursday that the surge in sectarian violence in Baghdad in recent weeks raises the possibility of Iraq descending into civil war.

"Iraq could move toward civil war" if the violence is not contained, Gen. John Abizaid, the top U.S. commander in the Middle East, told the Senate Armed Services Committee.

"I believe that the sectarian violence is probably as bad as I have seen it," he said, adding that the top priority in Iraq is to secure the capital, where factional violence has surged in recent weeks despite efforts by the new Iraqi government to stop the fighting. President Bush last week approved an increase in the number of U.S. troops in Baghdad as part of a new effort to help Iraqi security forces get a grip on the sectarian tensions.

Abizaid also said under questioning that it was possible that U.S. casualties could rise as a result of the battle to contain sectarian violence in the capital.

"I think it's possible that in the period ahead of us in Baghdad that we'll take increased casualties -- that's possible," he said....

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/wire/ats-ap_top...
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MrCoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. There's a phrase for this...
something about reaping what you sow, or chickens coming home to roost, or something.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. Hillary Clinton got on his case
And under tough questioning by Sen.
Hillary Clinton about previous appearances before the committee, he denied that he had ever "painted a rosy picture" of the situation in Iraq.
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MrCoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. liar liar pants on fire
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/congress...

it's a shame that I have to revert back to 3rd grade in order to address a US General.
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karlrschneider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #26
33. Hey thanks for the link, I hadn't seen it before. And welcome to DU!
:toast:
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MrCoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. Thanks for the welcome
i've been lurking for too long. time to come out of the closet.
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ckramer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. Thanks to the invasion
Iraqis are now enjoying the democracy of being blowing up!
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #21
24. Generals raise fears of Iraq civil war
Generals raise fears of Iraq civil war

By ANNE PLUMMER FLAHERTY, Associated Press Writer 1 minute ago

WASHINGTON - Two of the

The commanders' remarks about the threat of a civil war came just three months before congressional elections in which Bush administration policy in Iraq looms as a defining issue. Many voters have tired of the 3-year-old war, which has cost more than 2,500 U.S. lives and more than a quarter trillion taxpayer dollars.

They also come at a time when thanks to the high level of violence in Baghdad, administration hopes have diminished of significantly reducing the U.S. force in Iraq, which Rumsfeld said currently totals 133,000. Last year, Army Gen. George Casey, the top U.S. commander in Iraq, expressed hopes of significant troop cuts this year, comments that Abizaid seemed to temper on Thursday.

"Since the time that General Casey made that statement, it's clear that the operational and the tactical situation in Baghdad is such that it requires additional security forces, both U.S. and Iraqi," Abizaid told Sen. Carl Levin (news, bio, voting record) of Michigan, the top Democrat on the committee.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060803/ap_on_go_co/us_iraq ;_ylt=ArxpqIbFOgpD59B8WCNcYD6s0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--
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MrPrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #21
28. So civil war ...
generally means failure...but of course a lot of that sectarian violence is directed at the foreign occupation and DOES include the General's own troops which is an active participant in said 'civil war' violence.

So like Afghanistan, the US can only hold the capital city, spew propaganda and get Americans to forget even the most basic goals of stability have not even been met.

Why are there sitting democrats that are still treating the vague outlines of the Bush 'war on terror' with even this level of respect? It's been an unmitigated failure on any level, including the 'oil' conspiracy angel as the US even failed to keep the oil flowing, haven't built a damn thing except bases they are hiding in, killed scores of Iraqis, haven't stablized a single region, etc etc.

Why Bush is not being held to his own standards by democrats who still prefer to nibble at the edges is quite astonishing, really. At this point the democrats shouldn't be offering any solutions, but should be attacking relentlessly on what the GOP has ALREADY placed before the American people.
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lpbk2713 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
29. As we see the whole world turning to shit before our very eyes,




.... the Middle East, global warming, the Gulf Coast, corruption and ineptitude in all levels of government, economy in the toilet, you name it .....


Don't ever forget .....


The rethuglicans have had control of all levels of government; House, Senate, Judicial branch and Executive branch, for at least the last six years. They can point their fingers all they want to but in the final analysis the whole blame for everything rests on their shoulders.




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karlrschneider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
30. Rummy sure didn't look thrilled to hear that.
...
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
31. Paging Captain Obvious..
... you've got an imitator on aisle 3!
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Felix Mala Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
34. Last throes??? My day, year, is totally ruined...
It occurred to me that, as Iraq turns into the political black hole of world history, spawning World War III and God knows what else, the group of incompetent Neocons who got this off the ground are never going to get their comeuppance for what they've done. It will always be the terrorists fault with the complicity of America's America-hating liberals and their mainstream press lackeys. The Neocons will never get admit they were wrong and they'll never get what's coming to them for this aberration.
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reprobate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
36. Pray tell, General. How do you stop an insurgency with conventional


military forces? Like clearing the desert with a broom, it won't work. You sweep up a few of them here, but the rest are someplace else.

I guess the last three years have taught us nothing, right.

There's only one thing that will pacify Iraq.

Nukes.

Turn the entire desert into a sea of glass and then sell the glass.

Anything less is like pissing into the wind.

You end up being the one with the wet face.

The one possible successful alternative: BUG OUT! Leave. Pull a Viet Nam style advance to the rear. Declare victory and redeploy.

IOW, admit the whole thing was a disaster, impeach the Bush/Cheney siamese twins, and send them to the Hague.
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BLUEBOY Donating Member (33 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
37. But , but, we're turning a corner... last throws and all that...
General,
just STFU already. Of course Iraq is old news and the U.S. is now involved with the new war - Israel - Lebanon.
Stop the ride I want to get off...
:puke:
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54anickel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
38. 2 top generals now, and Rummy......
Generals warn Senate that Iraq could descend into civil war

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/politic...

WASHINGTON - In what may be the Pentagon's most pessimistic assessment of the war in Iraq to date, two top generals told a Senate panel Thursday that the country could descend into civil war if the wave of sectarian violence isn't checked soon by Iraqi and U.S. forces.

The generals and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld warned of the toll that violence between Shiite and Sunni Muslim militia groups is taking on efforts to constitute a new Iraqi government, restore order and begin the withdrawal of U.S. troops.

"I believe that the sectarian violence is probably as bad as I've seen it, in Baghdad in particular," Army Gen. John Abizaid, the commander of U.S. forces in Iraq and chief of U.S. Central Command, told the Senate Armed Services Committee. "And that if not stopped, it is possible that Iraq could move towards civil war."

snip>

U.S. Marine Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, agreed, saying, "We do have the possibility of (sectarian violence) devolving into civil war."

Rumsfeld, noting a recent addition of about 3,000 U.S. troops in Baghdad, said, "The goal is not to have U.S. forces do the heavy lifting in Baghdad. The role of the U.S. force is to help them (the Iraqis), to provide logistics, to assist them as needed, and to create a presence that will allow the Iraqi security forces to succeed."

Thursday's stark assessment stood in contrast to earlier testimony from military leaders, who, while acknowledging the dangerous environment in Iraq, have generally emphasized positive developments, such as national elections and Iraqi police successes.

more...
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