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cal04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 06:39 PM
Original message
CIA attacked by agent who led Bin Laden hunt
The man who led America's hunt for Osama bin Laden says the CIA was wrong to disband the only unit devoted entirely to the Islamist leader's pursuit - just at a time when al-Qaida is reasserting its influence over the global jihad.

Shutting down the Bin Laden unit squandered 10 years of expertise in the war on terror, said Michael Scheuer, who founded the unit in 1995 and arguably knows more about Bin Laden than any other western intelligence official. He believes the unit was dismantled because of bureaucratic jealousies within the CIA, and that the closure delivers a further setback to a pursuit that has been squeezed for resources for the past two years.

"What it robs you of is a critical mass of officers who have been working on this together for a decade," he told the Guardian. "We had a breed of specialists rare in an intelligence community that prides itself on generalists. It provided a base from which to build a cadre of people specialising in attacking Sunni extremist operations, who sacrificed promotions and other emollients in their employment in the clandestine service, where specialists were looked on as nerds."

A 22-year CIA veteran, Mr Scheuer became aware of Bin Laden in the 1980s when the Saudi-born militant was on the fringes of the US-backed mujahideen fighting the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. In 1995, when western intelligence agencies knew little about Bin Laden, Mr Scheuer was charged with setting up a unit that would track what support he was giving to Islamist groups, and determine whether he himself was a threat. Mr Scheuer left the agency in 2004 after writing a scathing book about its counter-terrorism efforts called Imperial Hubris. He is now a consultant on terrorism.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,1815728,00.html
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
1. Michael knows the deal.
I agree with him 100% on this.
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FloridaPat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
2. So who does bin Laden work for? Or is the question who does * work for?
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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-08-06 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #2
21. They both work for the same group of puppet masters.
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wakeme2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
3. Read Jawbreaker by Gary Berntsen


twice his unit in Afganhistan was near bin Laden and twice the people on the 11th floor of the CIA pulled him from there.

:grr:

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Jane Austin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. I'm reading Jawbreadker now.
He sure has it in for Clinton, doesn't he?

So far, he hasn't nailed him with anything specific, just his general and negative opinion of him.

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bilgewaterbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-08-06 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #10
22. Maybe that's why it's getting shut down. nt
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-08-06 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #3
17. who are the people on the "11th Floor" ??
is that cheney's special projects?
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-08-06 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. See post #19
BFEE.
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wakeme2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-08-06 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. execute area
Top Managers/Director offices.
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NYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
4. Bush said this story is not true re the shut down.
I was listening to his Chicago speech today, and when asked about this, he said it was not true.

Anybody else hear him?
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mithnanthy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Yes, I heard him...
that's what he said.
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Well, he not so much as said as stammered and stuttered.
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NYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. I stand corrected.
:hi:
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-08-06 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #4
12. I heard Bush say that too
Makes me wonder what the real story is
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Ravy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-08-06 02:24 AM
Response to Reply #4
13. Probably in a daily briefing under "CIA determined to shut down..
bin Laden search unit" and he thought it was of no consequence.
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NYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-08-06 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #13
29. Perfect answer.
:hi:
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Olney Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-08-06 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #4
18. So who got the wrong memo- Bush or the CIA?
I'm sick of this Keystone Cops approach to Bin Laden.
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NYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-08-06 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #18
30. That's the only approach we'll get
while Bush is in office.
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
7. Whenever I read stuff from the CIA experts I just can't help but think how
dense and unrealistic they really are. Do they honestly believe this tripe they try to sell? Do they truly believe that the US can go around and blow up Muslim countries for year after year and not develop organizations like Al Qaeda?? Are they so naive?
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Have you read
Michael's books? He is a former CIA "expert," and I think that you might find him other than dense and unrealistic. In fact, I think you's enjoy what he says in "Imperial Hubris" in particular.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-08-06 01:12 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. and do read about John O'Neil..Killed in WTC and read why he left this
government!!

i do not worry about denseness in the CIA..i worry about it in our citizenship!

and our citizenship that would do everything in its power to cover up for the evil in our white house..while telling us they have values!

hey leesa... these Cia agents put their lives on the line each and every day to protect you!! do not short change them..if you do ..you do at your peril and the peril of every American!!

fly
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soothsayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-08-06 02:52 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. No wonder they're all alcoholics! Poor stressed out agents.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-08-06 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #11
27. Hey, flyarm, 70% of the American people oppose Bush! THEY aren't
covering anything up. They would like the truth. They want good government, and peace and justice. Who is doing the covering up? Who is disempowering and disenfranchising the citizenship? I give a lot of credit to the American people. They've figured a number of things out on their own--starting with Bush's war (way back, before the invasion--58% opposed!). And they've done it despite 24/7 propaganda by the war profiteering corporate news monopolies. Don't blame the people. Work to re-empower them!
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-09-06 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #27
33. i am aware of that ..very aware..i was being sarcastic..n/t
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TomClash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-08-06 06:06 AM
Response to Original message
15. I still think
Bush cut a deal on bin Laden with Prince Bandar on the Truman Balcony after dinner on September 13, 2001.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-08-06 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
16. bin Laden was "US-backed mujahideen" !!!
my brain has blocked this out. i know i've read this before, but hell -- the outrage comes so fast and furious these days, it's hard to keep it all straight.

HE WAS WORKING FOR THE US!!

AND *THE CIA* has "shut-down" the unit tracking him!!

PUH-leeeeese! does anyone still think that he HASN'T been working for "us" (read: bush) since the very beginning??
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reprobate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-08-06 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. Right! And it was Poppy Bush who was head of CIA when Bin Missing


headed the Mujahadeen in the fight against Russian Afghan invaders. It was "Poppy" who sent him the Stinger missiles and all the arms. IOW, the Bush family has been running OBL since the beginning of his influence. And remember it was the Mujahadeen that were the core that became Al Quaida.

Then consider the fact that the Bin Ladin family and the Bush family have been business partners for decades. IMHO anyone who doesn't see a collusion between the two families, including Osama suffers from a severe case of Occular Rectitus (a very uncomfortabe syndrome in which one goes thru life with ones head firmly buried up one's rectum).

BTW, does anyone else wonder why George H.W. Bush is called "Poppy"? And why whenever the CIA is involved in black ops there always seem to be drugs involved? IMHO that's where the CIA black ops get their financing. Been that way since before Viet Nam.
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-08-06 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
19. Scheuer apparently didn't get the memo !
Khan Job: Bush Spiked Probe of Pakistan’s Dr. Strangelove, BBC reported in 2001
http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=312&row=0

"...A top-level CIA operative who spoke with us on condition of strictest anonymity said that, after Bush took office, "There was a major policy shift" at the National Security Agency. Investigators were ordered to "back off " from any inquiries into Saudi Arabian financing of terror networks, especially if they touched on Saudi royals and their retainers. That put the Bin Ladens, a family worth a reported $12 billion and a virtual arm of the Saudi royal household, off limits for investigation. Osama was the exception; he remained a wanted man, but agents could not look too closely at how he filled his piggy bank. The key rule of any investigation, "follow the money," was now violated, and investigations-at least before September 11-began to die. ""
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chookie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-09-06 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #19
37. Thanks for the memories
Totally forgotten.

One of the first things Cheney pushed through after monkey boy moved into the WH -- an order to stand down on Saudi citizens suspected of "things". I think its just you and me who remember this....

Um -- maybe you even remember that Cheney was made head of counter-terror in May 2001. Ha ha -- in spite of the power of this office, and its urgency, Cheney never even met ONCE . Too busy telling peope they needed to turn off their electrical appliances if they could not afford the high prices Enron had set for them.

Maybe you even remember that Condi was in charge for the "rebuilding" of Iraq right after the war.

Everybody -- just step back and look what happened when these idiots were put in charge....
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-09-06 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. If you follow the Ptech (now GoAgile) story you'll find even more
grist for the mill. Apparently Ptech/GoAgile is STILL providing software etc services to the DOD, FAA, WhiteHouse, at least according to Rachael Ehrenfeld

Dollars of terror
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=17730

Take note, this link is from a conservative website, so it is with particular irony that conservatives reprint it. If they'd follow their own links you'd think they'd figure out they'd been had. Idiots is about the right IQ range for these guys...you're right on the money there, chookie.
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anotherdrew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-08-06 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
25. typical, so typical
Edited on Sat Jul-08-06 12:48 PM by anotherdrew
"specialists were looked on as nerds"

this is the new american culture corporate to CIA, the people who actually know what they're doing and get work done are looked down upon by a class of worthless leeches who only know how to play politics.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-08-06 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
26. I read Imperial Hubris cover to cover. It's a very interesting book,
well worth reading, but I don't think it penetrates the core of the Bush junta very well. Scheuer's advice about dealing with Al Quaeda and bin Laden, and Islamic jihad, stems from his assessment of how legitimate Arab/Muslim concerns have been treated by the West--in essence, extremely badly. He says the jihadists really don't "hate us for our freedom" or want to invade and destroy us. They really don't want to have anything to do with us. Their concerns are more internal and have to do with self-determination, as well as respect for Arab/Muslim peoples, and their sovereignty. He mentions several instances of Western interference and injustice that are critically important, including U.S. bases in Saudi Arabia (the Holy Land), and the the West's failure to enforce a just solution in Palestine. He basically says that it is nuts to ignore concerns like these, and what do we expect from having pursued such arrogant, undiplomatic unwise policy? He further completely disagrees with post-9/11 analysis, which went militaristic, rather than diplomatic. In general, no one was discussing the REASONS 9/11 happened--not to excuse the attack, but to understand and address WHY it occurred. He believes it was the result of very specific grievances.

I often think of what the US/Israel did to Iran in 1954. They deliberately crushed Iran's new democracy, and installed the horrible Shah, who inflicted 25 years of torture and oppression on the Iranian people. Is it any wonder that Iranians profoundly distrust the West, and have been driven into the arms of the mullahs? And we continue to do everything possible to PREVENT self-determination and democracy in that land. Iran has quite a young population, with a strong liberal streak. And what does the Bush junta do? They include them in the "Axis of Evil" and threaten them with bombing and invasion, thus reinforcing the RIGHTWING of the society.

I can't recall if Scheuer (then known as "Anonymous") goes into the example of Iran. But that is the gist of the book. And I would agree with it, in a normal world--that 9/11 was the result of egregiously unjust policy over many decades, and that if we want world peace, we must pursue fairness, justice, objectivity and wisdom in our behavior toward other countries and peoples, and in our diplomatic missions.

In a normal world. But I don't think the Bush junta is normal. And that is where we disagree. I think there is too much that is highly suspicious in the Bushites' behavior around 9/11. I think they were complicit. (I guess I'm LIHOP--they "let it happen.") There is simply no other explanation that I can think of for the breakdown of every standard NORAD procedure on that day, and that day only. And when you find out that, a) Donald Rumsfeld, our Sec of Defense, quietly pulled all NORAD decisions into his own hands four months before 9/11, and b) was AWOL during the critical hour after the WTC was hit, when our nation's capitol lay open to attack and undefended, with at least one hijacked plane headed towards it, and c) that NO ONE has adequately explained or investigated this amazing failure, even with evidence of a coverup (shredded flight controller tapes, etc.)--the known facts scream at you. This was an inside job--somebody told NORAD to stand down, or some group was working within to disable its procedures. And this is just one example of the "black holes" in the official story.

And there is absolutely NOTHING to be found in the behavior of the Bush junta on all other matters of policy and government to cause me to give them any benefit of the doubt. They are extremely secretive and dishonest, and lawless, in numerous other ways. Their main motive, from what I can tell, is looting our county blind--a $10 TRILLION deficit, with money larded onto the super-rich and Bush buddies like Halliburton, often in completely unaccountable ways ("no bid" contracts, indeed).

Scheuer lives in a world in which we HAVE a foreign policy. But the Bushites have destroyed that world and created one in which our foreign policy is a looting expedition, for them and their global corporate predator cabalists.

I say "our" ("our foreign policy is a looting expedition") euphemistically. There is no more "our" as to the U.S. government. Our government has been seized by the Bush junta. There is now an extremely grave disconnect between the U.S. government and any and all interests of the American people. Our government no longer belongs to us in any sense of the word. The final severance occurred, in my opinion, with installation of Diebold and ES&S (Bushite-controlled) electronic voting systems, run on TRADE SECRET, PROPRIETARY programming code, with virtually no audit/recount controls, prior to the 2004 election--a quite deliberately designed system to steal elections, easily and undetectably, forever more.

There are certainly stateless people in the world--crazies, criminals, or people consumed with power scenarios--who want to harm innocent people to accomplish their own ends. The Bush cabal is not the least among them. But putting them aside, there ARE effective police methods--and other measures, such as fair and just national policy--to deal with any such "terrorist" element. Scheuer is absolutely right about this. If bin Laden were the problem, it would be insane to disband the one CIA unit that knows the most about him.

But bin Laden is not the problem. The Bush junta is the problem. Or, I should say, bin Laden and associated jihadists are only a very minor part of the problem. The Bush junta's direct and indirect use of "terrorists" to enrich themselves at our expense and to destroy our democracy, and to loot and destroy other people as well, IS the problem, and it is huge.

Common sense would tell us to retain the best intelligence unit on bin Laden. But common sense is not at work. What is at work is massive thievery on a scale unheard of in human history--and the bludgeoning and destruction of all democratic processes to that puny end: the egregious enrichment of the few.

How do we get common sense back? Well, I think we had better start with Diebold and ES&S! We are NOT going to get common sense, and good government, and democracy back by appealing to the Bush junta. We have to RESTORE our power to throw them out. And restoring transparent, verifiable elections is step one toward that end. It is still doable. We had better get on it, while it still is.
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DemonFighterLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-08-06 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. Good Post and correct as far as I can tell
The main Regime that calls all others regimes is the problem. As long as so many people still believe the lies, we are in trouble.
Diebold has been getting more of a foothold all the time. I don't see any help on the horizon.
We need a knight in shining armor. Who?????
:dem:
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Rageneau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-08-06 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
31. Do Bush and Bin Laden have a deal not to hurt each other?
Bartcop thinks so, as follows:

While Bush has Bin Laden and Bin Laden has Bush, they both get everything they want. That explains why there haven't been any new terrorist attacks within the US, when common sense says it would be easy to stage an endless succession of them -- via hijacked tanker trucks, Ryder rentals full of ammonium nitrate, poisoned water supplies and whatnot.

It also explains why, in five years -- with the planet's greatest intelligence service and unlimited money -- we haven't been able to track down the most famous Arab in the world.

In essence, Bush said to Osama, "You don't screw with my image of great defender of the homeland and I won't catch you. Deal?" And Osama said, "Deal!"

Preposterous? Sure -- but it explains things that all the other known existing circumstances don't explain.

Like calling off the hunt for Osama.

WTF?
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outofbounds Donating Member (578 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-09-06 06:32 AM
Response to Reply #31
34. I think You are very close
didn't the Bin Ladens help HW with W's R-Bust-O's financing? All of this occurring when Osama was leading the Afghan war with USSR? I kind of think there is a I helped Your kid, You help mine kinda theme here. The Bin Ladens and Bush's Are in bed together. W has said more than once Osama is not a threat anymore. I though if you commit a crime like this you would be caught and brought to justice. Guess its who you know.
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-08-06 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
32. Bush's "Cut and Run" policy on Osama bin Ladin. (eom)
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sattahipdeep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-09-06 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
35. Lies, lies and more lies.
John O'Neil was the leading authority on Osama Bin Laden.


The two dozen staff members who worked at the station, which was named after Mr. Scheuer's son
and was housed in leased offices near agency headquarters in northern Virginia, issued regular
cables to the agency about Mr. bin Laden's growing abilities and his desire to strike American
targets throughout the world. :eyes:

In his book "Ghost Wars," which chronicles the agency's efforts to hunt Mr. bin Laden in the years
before the Sept. 11 attacks, Steve Coll wrote that some inside the agency likened Alec Station to
a cult that became obsessed with Al Qaeda.

" Mr. Coll wrote. Members of Alec Station "called themselves 'the Manson Family'
because they had acquired a reputation for crazed alarmism about the rising Al Qaeda threat."

Larry Silverstein owner of the Towers, purchased and insured just six weeks before 9/11.
Hired John O'Neil 9/10/2001 as head of security.
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chookie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-09-06 11:21 PM
Response to Original message
36. Michael et al. weren't telling them what they wanted to hear!
Ha ha -- he's a NERD! He forms ideas using his mind -- not his gut, and not to fit in with what is sought politically by the Chimperial administraion and their trained monkeys.

His experience was so deep, his analysis and insight so important that he HAD to go.

Bin Laden the mastermind that brought down the WTC is forgotten and irrelevant now. Ha ha -- you'd think he never even committed a horrific crime against our nation!!

It's time to move on to "modern" threats like those losers in Miami, who asked "al Qaeda" for army boots and uniforms, in which they would wage jihad -- SO CHILLINGLY like the lethal Al Qaeda operations that have gone before, ha ha :sarcasm:

Let's face it -- the best the Chimperial Majesty has been able to deliver in the Eternal War on Terriers is: The 7 Miami Losers, a couple of Afghani goat herders in Guantanamo, John Walker Lind (Biggus Wackois), Zubaydah (the literally insane man who was tortured until he "revealed" plans to blow up the Brooklyn Bridge, etc -- which resulted in a long sequence of idiotic breathless TERROR! alerts), and Al Zaqawri -- a convenient Lebanese thus, egotistically insane but irrelevant, who was thrilled beyound his wildest dreams that George Bush was making him out to be the biggest terrorist in the world. Maybe I am leaving some of these irrelevant losers out, but be patient with me, because there have been so many that the Bushistas have crowed about liquidating. All those breathless news casts we heard of imminent attacks were simply hooey -- but NOW we shold believe that these guys are the "real thing". Yeah, right. I'm sure it has nothing to do with the upcoming elections, in which the NeoCons are facing defeat because they have fucked up so badly.

Ha ha -- it's the best they can do!! Ha ha. Shutting down the experienced bin Laden unit is a-okay, as natural as mother's milk in George Bush's America. God bless America and George W's genius!! Ha ha -- imagine if CLINTON had shut down the bin Laden unit -- America would be in flames. No one will even blink.

I guess bin Laden is past his "sell-by" date -- he cannot be relied upon to offer another excuse to widen the war in the middle east -- Saddam is also a has been as well in this regard -- so His Chimperial Majesty must find another leader to demonize in advance of invading or killing -- who's it gonna be -- Ahmadinijad (who seems to be the Front Runner to be The Next Hitler), or Chavez ( a "communist" who does not submit to US oil interests an who agitates our poor by offering them low cost fuel in winter), or Al-Assad, who's pesky country stands between the old Iraq/ Haifa pipeline.

The legitimate intelligence community --apparently in exile, or displaced because they will not swear utter and perpetual loyalty to George W -- must be shaking their heads at this....

But this is what our fellow Americans voted for in 2004 -- even if they didn't, naively thinking it would never get as bad as this.

Let's see -- the Republicans just have gay marriage, flag burning and immigrant wage slavery as their platform -- but they need something "unifying" -- like the constant threat of American annihilation, even if its only based in hooey.

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