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kstewart33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 06:13 PM
Original message
Bombshell: NSA Whistleblower to Expose More Unlawful Activity
NSA Whistleblower To Expose More Unlawful Activity: PeopleAre Going To Be Shocked

CongressDaily reports that former NSA staffer Russell Tice will testify to the Senate Armed Services Committee next week that not only do employees at the agency believe the activities they are being asked to perform are unlawful, but that what has been disclosed so far is only the tip of the iceberg. Tice will tell Congress that former NSA head Gen. Michael Hayden, Bushs nominee to be the next CIA director, oversaw more illegal activity that has yet to be disclosed:

A former intelligence officer for the National Security Agency said Thursday he plans to tell Senate staffers next week that unlawful activity occurred at the agency under the supervision of Gen. Michael Hayden beyond what has been publicly reported, while hinting that it might have involved the illegal use of space-based satellites and systems to spy on U.S. citizens.

said he plans to tell the committee staffers the NSA conducted illegal and unconstitutional surveillance of U.S. citizens while he was there with the knowledge of Hayden. I think the people I talk to next week are going to be shocked when I tell them what I have to tell them. Its pretty hard to believe, Tice said. I hope that theyll clean up the abuses and have some oversight into these programs, which doesnt exist right now.

Source: http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/12/more-unlawful-activ...
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electron_blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. As Gomer Pyle would say: Su-prise, su-prise, su-prise...
Seriously, I can't wait for this to come out of the closet.
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Bjornsdotter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
2. I hope

...that this guy doesn't plan on flying this week-end.

Cheers
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Akoto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. My thoughts exactly.
If I were Mr. Tice, I'd keep one eye over my shoulder right now. He's taking quite the risk under the circumstances.
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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. If he were smart...
somebody he trusts would ALREADY have all the information he knows.

I always wonder about these people...like that Baxter guy who left his house in the middle of the night, the day befor he was to testify (wasn't it Enron?) and suicided himself with "birdshot". Yeah!

Nobody should ever say they're going to tell what they know unless the info. is already safely ensconced somewhere.
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Tandalayo_Scheisskopf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #4
18. That "Ratshot"(as it was called in the autopsy report)...
Was, in fact, a Glaser Safety Slug(blue version). Google it up. Not your average plinking round.

When you want to kill someone very and completely dead, Glaser is the choice of pros, the world over.

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WiseButAngrySara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #18
37. I know Dr. Carter, the ME who performed the autopsy, and I know her
to be a LIAR. Several people in Houston believe that she was paid for her autopsy cause/manner of death as suicide. Know anything about this, or have any opinions on it?
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Tandalayo_Scheisskopf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #37
48. Wound channel measurement...
Is SOP in post-mortem pathology, to determine the cause of death. Glaser Safety Slugs are effective because they create a huge wound channel through the creation of huge amounts of hydrostatic shock in the tissues effected. Furthermore, pieces of blue teflon, the material that is the casing for the Glaser Blue, were found in the cound channel, as well as the exact number of shot pellets that are packed and compressed into a Glaser Blue. Any ME that deals with gunshot wounds should be fully up to speed with frangible round technologies. Period.

To look at her initial explanation and to read the autopsy reports(I have...) and not come away with the impression that Cliff Baxter's death was the victim of a coverup by the ME is impossible.

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WiseButAngrySara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #48
49. She is not only less than truthful, she is also very sloppy in her work.
Are you involved in forensics or law enforcement? You seem to know a lot about balistics.
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Tandalayo_Scheisskopf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. LOL!
no, I am about as far from either of those career paths as one can be, without breaking the law. No, I am just a reader and studier by nature, in my own way. I learned about Glasers when they first cam out, a number of years ago, during my handgun shooting and reloading phase.

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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #4
41. Went Hunting With Deadeye Dick, Did He?
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vssmith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. You mean like
Paul Wellstone and Carnahan???
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Bjornsdotter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #14
36. Exactly

That's exactly what I meant.

Cheers
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WiseButAngrySara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #2
35. OMG! This always happens when I post before reading the entire
thread. I just posted below, that Tice should avoid small aircraft forever!
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Bjornsdotter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. Great minds

....LOL...same thing happens to me all the time.

Cheers
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nancyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
5. Bombshells
Let's just hope the powers that be aren't able to shut him up before the truth is told! If this report is true, then they'll either get rid of him or paint him as a dangerous lunatic...either way, he'll be an outcast. We sort of know what happens to whistle-blowers, don't we? I am longer surprised at any new revolting horror these evil-doers might be guilty of: the more awful it is...the more likely it is that it's true. Unfortunately, not that many people seem to be overly concerned...politics as usual? I think not.
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henslee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 06:26 PM
Original message
One word. Kevlar. (vest that is)
Mr. Tice, you are a brave man. Bless you.
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cliss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
16. Absolutely. I'd wear it
even when I went to bed at night.

You never know with this crowd.....


Re: The divulging of facts: I ALWAYS knew there was more in the pipeline. Always. I never believed it was just "a limited program". I had a hunch they would be all over peoples' private lives, almost like having mice in your underwear drawer.

You give these guys a millimeter, and they'll take a million miles.
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henslee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. The greatest punishment for these guys would be to separate them from
their wealth.
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MissWaverly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #16
30. their personalities are bullies
they don't want a fair fight, they have been consistent always, they grabbed the presidency
out of the winner's hands, they put someone no one wanted as our UN rep. They want to jam
things in w/o consent because they are bullies. If the people rise up and say they don't want
something or Congress says don't do this, he will do it 100 more times.
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Betsy Ross Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
6. Can we hope for a double-header?
Tice to testify on the same day Rove gets indicted. This may be the final nail in *Co's coffin. Many Conservatives are strong privacy advocates who won't like any more news of spying on US citizens. As I said on another thread, speak wisely to those who have recently come to not support *. We have their ears, we need their votes.
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journalist3072 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
7. Not surprising at all
As I mentioned in one of my posts yesterday....the dots are really starting to connect.

Remember when Alberto Gonzales testified to the Senate Judiciary Committee about the warrentless domestic spying program, and he alluded that there might be other programs out there.

That's what I thought about yesterday, after the revelations regarding the data mining of phone records.

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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
8. This is line that gets me
Its an angle that you havent heard about yet

Wow, a totally new level of disgust.
:wow:
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Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #8
21. That line got me too...but not surprised...nothing about these crazy
neo-cons "shocks and awes" me about what they are capable of....but it will surely be revealing to see the degree of twisted levels of plans and abuse of our constitution they have actually gone to...Maybe the rest of America that has up until now refused to believe this administration is out of control will finally wake up?

A new level of disgust indeed.... :puke:
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Danieljay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
9. if this is true, this guy is likely to turn up dead. He's dealing with
Edited on Fri May-12-06 06:33 PM by Danieljay
some real dangerous people with the NSA. Man, this man needs serious protection.
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Up2Late Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
10. Here's the GovExec.com version...
May 12, 2006

Former NSA officer alleges illegal activities under Hayden



By Chris Strohm, CongressDaily

A former intelligence officer for the National Security Agency said he plans to tell Senate staffers next week that unlawful activity occurred at the agency under the supervision of Gen. Michael Hayden beyond what has been publicly reported, while hinting that it might have involved the illegal use of space-based satellites and systems to spy on U.S. citizens.

Russell Tice, who worked on what are known as "special access programs," has wanted to meet in a closed session with members of Congress and their staff since President Bush announced in December that he had secretly authorized the NSA to eavesdrop on U.S. citizens without a court order. In an interview late Thursday, Tice said the Senate Armed Services Committee finally asked him to meet next week in a secure facility on Capitol Hill.

Tice was fired from the NSA last May. He said he plans to tell the committee staffers the NSA conducted illegal and unconstitutional surveillance of U.S. citizens while he was there with the knowledge of Hayden, who has been nominated to become director of the CIA. Tice said one of his co-workers personally informed Hayden that illegal and unconstitutional activity was occurring.

The Senate Intelligence Committee plans to hold Hayden's confirmation hearing next week. "I think the people I talk to next week are going to be shocked when I tell them what I have to tell them. It's pretty hard to believe," Tice said. "I hope that they'll clean up the abuses and have some oversight into these programs, which doesn't exist right now."

(more at link)

<http://www.govexec.com/story_page.cfm?articleid=34075&d... >
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NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. I'm sure we know the spin on this one
Disgruntled employee who was fired last year...

But, I'm shocked that the domestic spying is much more extensive than disclosed just this week... shocked I tell you, shocked!
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #10
39. Shades of Martha Mitchell
Tice was fired last May after the NSA ordered him to undergo psychological evaluations following a separate clash with agency leadership, and psychologists diagnosed him as being paranoid. Tice claimed the order to undergo the evaluations was retaliation for raising concerns. He also said he saw an independent psychologist who found no evidence that he has a mental disorder.

Hayden, on Capitol Hill Friday visiting with lawmakers, defended the secret surveillance programs he oversaw while head of the NSA as lawful and designed to "preserve the security and the liberty of the American people."

Hayden declined to comment on news reports about the NSA's database on private telephone calls, but spoke about the NSA's work in general terms, the Associated Press reported.

"Everything that the agency has done has been lawful. It's been briefed to the appropriate members of Congress," Hayden told reporters. "The only purpose of the agency's activities is to preserve the security and the liberty of the American people. And I think we've done that," he said.
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C_U_L8R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
11. We need more BRAVE whistleblowers
Cmon Agent Mike !!!
Gather up the spooks and the hackers.
It's time to turn these Republican fucks into mincemeat.
You got the goods on em... phone calls, emails and all.
It's SHOWTIME !!!
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Up2Late Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
13. Hey, I though Bush said they are still looking for the NYT/NSA leaker?
This guy told ABC News, back in January that it was him!

<http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Investigation/story?id=149188... >

...The same day The New York Times broke the story of the NSA eavesdropping without warrants, Tice surfaced as a whistleblower in the agency. He told ABC News that he was a source for the Times' reporters. But Tice maintains that his conscience is clear.

"As far as I'm concerned, as long as I don't say anything that's classified, I'm not worried," he said. "We need to clean up the intelligence community. We've had abuses, and they need to be addressed."

The NSA revoked Tice's security clearance in May of last year based on what it called psychological concerns and later dismissed him. Tice calls that bunk and says that's the way the NSA deals with troublemakers and whistleblowers. Today the NSA said it had "no information to provide." ...

(more at link)

<http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Investigation/story?id=149188... >
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ThoughtCriminal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 07:11 PM
Response to Original message
15. And the frogs in the pot say "98 C feels just fine"
it's OK to turn it up another degree or two.
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Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
19. Ok, what are the early morning odds he lives until next week
or is suicided.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
20. Whoa...and....Wow!
Next week could be VERY, VERY interesting!
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Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. Hey Spazito! What do Canadians think of the latest crimes of Bush Co?
Are you all just shaking your heads in disbelief? I know anyone here who respects and understands the Constitution is appalled and angry...I know I am and yet nothing surprises me anymore - maybe we can finally have the truth come to light and more people wake up....

Yes, next week could prove very, very interesting indeed.... :hi:
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. Shaking our heads is an understatement!
We are trying to figure how what bush is doing is any different than what was done in the old USSR and, so far, haven't found any differences! I am SO hoping this latest criminal act and trashing of your Constitution will be the 'final straw'! If not, I very much fear for your country.
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Up2Late Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. Couldn't you folks just invade already? All of our military is deployed
...all over the world, and any that aren't are heading toward the Mexican boarder. I bet Iceland would even help ya, just round up the rethug knuckle heads in the middle of the night, please!

It would be easy!
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. LOL, We can't right now, our maple syrup isn't ready yet and that
is what our bombs are made of, sorry, wish we could free you from the bush cabal for sure!
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Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 01:32 AM
Response to Reply #33
43. LOL! Guess I'll just be having to come North for that Maple Syrup while
it gets ready!

Sigh...yes, things are scary and bad indeed here and the saddest part is how few people who call themselves "Americans" even realize what is happening and seem to have no understanding of those very principles our country was founded on and on our Constitution. I often don't know what is more despicable - the cabal in the White House and their enablers who crap on the Constitution, or the people in this country who don't even know their Constitution and its principles and what it means. In my opinion they are equally as bad. In the meantime, people like myself and others here who love our country and the Constitution are going to be screaming from the roof tops and hoping to wake the sleeping people up.

And, if they don't wake up, and things get worse, you know where I'm going to be going...North where the people in your country seem to remember what those principles are.

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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #43
47. I have always been fascinated with your Constitution and the
Federalist Papers. It should be a prerequisite that students must have studied both the Constitution and the Federalist Papers before they can graduate, imo.

There is an old saying "Either use it or lose it" which I think holds true. I came to know and believe this to be true while being involved in labour negotiations. The bottom line is: If one does not use and safeguard the rights earned, one often loses them. The Constitution and the Bill of Rights are contracts with the citizens of the US, not that different from any contract one might negotiate within one's workplace.

The bush cabal is now ripping up that contract without negotiation and the US public, by and large, are unaware of what they are losing.

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Veronica.Franco Donating Member (752 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 07:29 PM
Response to Original message
22. Mr. President we have the votes ... RESIGN ... or be impeached ...
jars will hit 25% next week ...
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WiseButAngrySara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #22
40. Welcome to DU Veronica.Franco!
:hi: and I bet you're right!
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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
23. Sounds like shit is going to be hitting the fan
next week. I sure hope that Tice has some damn good protection.
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
25. There is nothing more to say
:popcorn:
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gristy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
26. Next week!?????
Get thee to a very, very safe place this weekend, Russell. :scared:
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
27. John Dean alluded to this on the Keith Olbermann show tonight
When all is said and done, not even Nancy Pelosi will be able to stop impeachment of Bush for his widespread law breaking.
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. She's going to be President whether she likes it or not
!!
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jasmeel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
31. Any ideas what other angles there could be? n/t
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WiseButAngrySara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
34. Damn! Tice should avoid small aircraft forever. ....n/t
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 01:00 AM
Response to Original message
42. The rebellion continues CIA Military NSA whose next???
these guys who did unlawful stuff are realizing being bush's puppet only will land you in jail!!!
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sofa king Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 01:45 AM
Response to Original message
44. Hope that guy took out a few insurance policies.
He above all people knows that he won't be able to hide.
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dbt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 07:10 AM
Response to Original message
45. Kick.
It was midnight on the sea,
The band was playing 'Nearer, My God, To Thee.'
Fare thee well, Titanic,
Fare thee well.


:evilgrin:
dbt
Impeach. Indict. Imprison.

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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 07:10 AM
Response to Original message
46. good! gen hayden is going to
go down with this -- i hope.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #46
51. Yes, I'm sick of seeing DiFi fawn all over him.
:puke: He's as corrupt as the rest of the BushBotBorg. :(
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