Dean (admits mistake, says "I misstated")...Party Platform on Gays

[truthpusher]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060512/ap_on_re_us/democrats_gays_3

"After the gay rights group went public with its complaints about his remarks, Dean acknowledged: "I misstated the Democratic Party's platform, which does not say marriage should be limited to a man and a woman," and reasserted the party's commitment to equal protection for all."


Dean Misstates Party Platform on Gays

By CALVIN WOODWARD, Associated Press Writer
5 minutes ago

Democratic chairman Howard Dean mischaracterized his party's platform on gay rights in an interview courting evangelicals, then set the record straight Thursday when an advocacy group called him on it.

Dean told Christian Broadcasting Network News that the 2004 Democratic platform declares "marriage is between a man and a woman" — just one of the points he made in reaching out to religious conservatives who are largely hostile to the party.

But the platform does not define marriage that way, and his remarks prompted the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force to return a $5,000 donation from the Democratic National Committee.

Dean later acknowledged his misstatement, but the group sent back the money anyway. "We need for Governor Dean to demonstrate real leadership on our issues," executive director Matt Foreman said in an interview, "not to equivocate depending on the audience."

(snip)

After the gay rights group went public with its complaints about his remarks, Dean acknowledged: "I misstated the Democratic Party's platform, which does not say marriage should be limited to a man and a woman," and reasserted the party's commitment to equal protection for all.

(snip)

link: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060512/ap_on_re_us/democrats_gays_3

[mike_c]

1. that was just wrong-- Dean should never have made the initial statement...

...and really shouldn't be "courting" fundamentalist nutcases anyway. That is a demographic that I want NOTHING to do with. They can vote for republicans until the end of time as far as I'm concerned!

[Miss Chybil]

2. Which they are hoping isn't far off! nt

[IndianaGreen]

5. He should have never gone on Pat Robertson's show

Robertson is considered a wacko by most Christians and he made Israelis angry when he said that Sharon's stroke was G-d's punishment for withdrawing from Gaza.

Dean's parroting of the GOP platform, and passing it as the Dem platform, offended the LGBT community and led to righteous indignation that manifested itself on the internet, including DU.

If Dean thinks that people like Robertson, Falwell, and Dobson represent true Christian values, then he is a bigger fool than what he has made himself to be.

[Psephos]

9. Insightful post n/t

[tabasco]

52. Totally agree.

Major blunder. He looks like either a liar, a panderer, or both.

[TankLV]

56. Exactly. Thankyou.

[Pacifist Patriot]

63. Absolutely. Big mistake!

[Zenlitened]

11. ...really shouldn't be "courting" fundamentalist nutcases anyway""

I totally agree. Anyone one tuning into the 700 club on a daily basis is a lost cause. Brain dead. Of no use to us at all. Far, far more important to hammer away at bread-and-butter issues, social issues, out there among people who are trying to make it in a place called Reality. Something to speak to the huge numbers of eligible voters who just sit out one election after another.

And if The Good Doc feels the need to share the stage with holy-men right now, I'd hope there would be no shortage of religious lefties willing to talk about real-world, real-life issues, not the "god shall smite thee" sort of thing that seems to get robertson's little wee-wee all a-twitter,

:crazy:

[Horse with no Name]

76. Why mess with a "lost" population of 20%

When 80% haven't all been convinced.
I love Howard, but definitely gotta say
"What were ya thinking, Howard"?

[Zenlitened]

89. I agree. This idea that we should battle the republicans...

... over their base is just ridiculous. Even the talk about "swing voters" leaves me cold, when it starts to sound like pandering, catering to the mythological Swing Voters to the exclusion of all else.

They have ears and can listen as we direct a clear, compelling message to the NATION. To the huge numbers of people who feel increasingly alienated by the whole damned process, but would jump right in if only someone would come along and speak TO them.

Maybe the handful of GENUINE swing voters will come along, too. But the closed minds of the 700 club crowd... it's a waste of time. Even if Dean wants to play the religion game, there must be better venues than Fundie Central.

[RogueTrooper]

21. Those "Fundamentalist Nutcases"

as you so charmingly put it have a long, and proud history in progressive politics. It is only recently, with the introduction of social wedge issues, that evangelical Christians have been supporting right wing politicians and right-wing politics. Prior to that they were, as a group, staunch for the causes of social justics and progress. You should read Thomas Franks What's the Matter with Kansas if you want a better understanding of this topic - and the true class nature of this conflict.

Whether you like it or not the people who watch the 700 club are overwhelming white and working class. A group that shoud, but does not, vote for Democrats.

[silvermachine]

24. I have read the book you mentioned...

...and it was a good read (it is still on my bedside stand, in fact) but the mentality and beliefs of today's modern evangelicals stands in stark contrast to those in the 1940's-60's. The working people who support folks like Sam Brownback have more in common than with those that listened to Fr. Charles Coughlin (the "Radio Priest") in the 20's. Very different mindsets.

[readmoreoften]

41. Yes, I've read the book.

But fundamentalist nutcases from the South do NOT have a proud progressive history. The midwest and northeast are different animals. I'm not sure why "white" would earmark one as a democrat, but "working class" certainly should. Then again, almost ALL Americans are "working class." Maybe Dean should've stuck to workers' rights and the economy if he wanted to appeal to this base and stayed away from the wedge issues.

[RogueTrooper]

47. Democrats perform very poorly

Amongst the white working-class voters ( both men and women ). From Ruy Taxiera

In 2000, Al Gore lost white working-class voters by 17 percentage points; in 2004, John Kerry lost them by 23 points, a swing of 6 points against the ....

If the Democrats could get the white working class to rejoin their electoral coalition the result would be a landslide. However, the Republicans have a virtual lock on the media this particular voting block consumes - the question is how to reach out to this voter block?

[TankLV]

57. I don't want them. They are a lost cause if they're watching.

Just like somebody here got indignant when they said their parents and "nice" friends also watched. I don't care. They're scum.

STOP TRYING TO COURT SCUM!

[RogueTrooper]

58. forgetting something?

tolerance? common decency?

Or is SHOUTING SCUM at poor Americans too much fun.

[readmoreoften]

92. Not all people who watch the 700 club are poor.

The idea of a poor fundamentalist with buck teeth sucking on a wheat straw is misguided. PLENTY of management types are born again christians, plenty of poor whites are gay and/or non-fundie but they don't vote at all because they don't trust the elites.

I'm really sick of this issue being spun as gay (rich, white men) vs. fundie (poor, working class).

There as many working class gays as there are fundies in management. Let's not work from stereotypes.

[TankLV]

93. If they watch and support these scum, then yes, they are SCUM.

So calling out rapists because they rape somebody is somehow victumizing the rapist?

I don't think so!

They support SCUM, they are SCUM.

It's really a simple concept.

Try it.

[Name removed]

114. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TheFarseer]

31. He should be courting all potential voters

But only by emphasizing parts of our platform that might appeal to them, not by changing the platform to leave loyal democrats out in the cold.

[Toucano]

46. Which part of the platform appeals to Skinheads? The KKK?

Those are potential voters, are they not?

Pat Robertson's followers are EXACTLY the same to gays and lesbians as Skinheads and the Klan are to Jews and Blacks.

Maybe Dean can address the next Klan convention and tell them how appealing the Democratic platform is to them, no?

[FiveGoodMen]

75. Well said.

[bluescribbler]

86. Re: "Which part of the platform appeals to Skinheads? The KKK?"

How about the economic stuff? Like good jobs at good wages for people who are willing to work? Like the fact that the exploding deficit represents a tax on current and future generations?

Just a couple of suggestions.

[TheFarseer]

87. Skinheads and KKK might care about

healthcare or alternative energy or worker's rights. More than hating people - well, who can say. not that I'm saying Dean should speak at a Klan rally, for obvious reasons.

[lumberjack_jeff]

32. Maybe they wouldn't be such nutcases if people would talk to 'em n/t

[donco6]

48. I've tried over the years.

But when you're convinced God is speaking to you, you have to reject anything contradictory that comes to your ears. It's from the "darkside." There's no getting through to most of them.

[lumberjack_jeff]

100. I think this might be a teachable moment.

I doubt all 29% are fundies, nor that even fundies are permanently immune to reality.

[Canuckistanian]

3. What the hell is going on here?

Is he another one of those politicians who don't realize they're being recorded - again?

Now that he's repented about his statements, we'll forgive him. But the fundies will feel doubly insulted now that he's recanted so fast.

What, exactly has Dean gained by this?

[OldLeftieLawyer]

4. This is why

Dean has to go.

He has nothing to offer, and he's done nothing worthwhile for the Democrats.

He had his time.

Move on, Howard. Be a gray eminence, be a rainmaker, but be gone.

How do you "misstate" something like that?

Please. Just go.

[Placebo]

6. "We need for Governor Dean to demonstrate real leadership...

on our issues," executive director Matt Foreman said in an interview, "not to equivocate depending on the audience."

This hit the nail on the head.

Howard Dean has shown that he will say anything to anyone depending on who he's speaking to at the time.

Howard Dean should be ashamed of his unscrupulous, shifty, and brittle "leadership" or lack thereof.

Mr Dean, do what's best, resign before you drag the mighty and proud Democratic party down any further.

[RDU Socialist]

10. MR. GORBACHEV TEAR DOWN THIS WALL

REAGAN SMASH, REAGAN SMASH, REAGAN SMASH... REAGAN... SLEEP... REAGAN SLEEP.

[high density]

20. Yeah cuz the GOP loves helping out gay folks

So fuck Dean and the Democrats... They don't do shit for anybody. Keep yelling "gay marriage" at the GOP loud enough and I'm sure they'll run it right through congress.

Right? :crazy:

[mondo joe]

28. If neither party is helping us on civil riights, there are other issues.

Just saying.

[tuvor]

7. That's one more mistake than bush has ever admitted to.

[Trillo]

8. That's what I was thinking. n/t

[slay]

12. Dean admits it was a mistake. He's only human and has done so much good

for the Democratic Party in general. I posted in an earlier thread how shocked I was that he would say such a thing on CBN of all places. However, he is indeed only human and ADMITS HIS MISTAKE now. I forgive him and applaud him for correcting his mistake. I hope others will find it in their hearts to also forgive him and look not only at his apology, but also at the HUGE amount of good he had done for us. :) :patriot:

[loveandlight]

35. this is such nonsense

You don't misspeak on a position that you believe in, only on ones you think you have to support to get the votes of those you are looking to be on your side. that is what this says to me. He doesn't really have his heart in the support of gay rights issues, just his mouth and his fundraising hand. Sorry, an apology later on off camera away from the fundie religious kooks who now think that the Democratic party doesn't really support gay issues is not enough for me. I agree with HRC, he has to show leadership on these issues, which he clearly hasn't thought about seriously.

[Mr_Spock]

102. ... or we can just let the Repukes win again and send gays to gitmo

Poor Dean - he's screwed either way.

[TankLV]

62. That is the way I intend to take it.

Nothing more needs to be said.

[leQ]

65. you took the words right outta my mouth. (eom)

[deacon]

13. It's not exactly in the category of the mistake of Iraq War

so ohhhhhhhh I think he's allowed a mistake...

[LetsGoMurphys]

14. Makes us look like Morans n/t

[Vidar]

15. Dean admits his mistakes, putting him way ahead of most pols.

[acmavm]

16. All you people that think Dean should just quit, leave with his tail

between his legs, who do you have in mind to do the job he's done? If you've got someone better in mind, let's hear it.

[JNelson6563]

17. Armchair warriors make sweeping statements

and throw big stuff around. Easy to expect perfection when you are in the ivory tower far from the trenches.

People who have no clue as the importance of having strong state and local parties see no value in Dean's hard work.

Julie

[xchrom]

18. i see the importance in not being PLAYED.

dean did not misspeak.

he apologized for a statement he meant.

you say some kinda bullshit to appeal to the fuckin barbarians -- then apologize later to the truly cornered voter/group BELIEVING they are helpless in the face of their choices.

you can like being treated like a whore -- but i don't.

[JNelson6563]

22. Incorrect

Dean incorrectly described a platform and later corrected himself. He wasn't saying "here's my opinion" and then later retracting that opinion.

As to the rest of your post, wow! Vile nasty stuff. Not necessary and quite revealing--in a bad way.

Julie

[xchrom]

26. incorrect my ass.

dean has recently fired his gay folk in a very, very controversial move and closed his gay outreach offices.

now he appears on the 700 club -- dean is a smart, smart guy.
he didn't say anything he didn't mean on one level or another -- and dean is on the record as saying that gay marriage should be left up to the states.

THAT'S NOT EQUAL ANYTHING -- that's leaving gay marriage up to the same kind of fate that is consuming and devouring roe v wade state by state.

dean said what he did for a purpose -- now if you believe he didn't then you're the perfect version of a democratic dittoehead that he's looking for.

and as far as vile and nasty is concerned -- i find your response to that reality and the reality of what gay folk live through when we hear crap like this -- to a party that we overwhelmingly support with our money and volunteer efforts -- vile and nasty in itself.


but not uncommon these days here.

[VegasWolf]

34. Doncha' know, we must keep our powder dry, elect a "D" regardless

of their position or viewpoint, regardless if their name is Miller or Lieberman. If becoming a bland RINO-DINO, can't tell the difference, party will put a "D" in power, even if they are anti-gay, anti-choice, well then we have to do it. You know god anoints the "D" separately with all the wisdom.

:sarcasm:

[xchrom]

37. here's one thing i'm clear about --

gay folk have gotten what freedom we now enjoy by our own hard work -- period.

we support the democratic party -- not the other way around.

our money -- our hard work -- our volunteer efforts -- that's what it's about.

if the democratic party really, really wants our votes -- then they can earn it.

and you don't earn it by expecting us to act like whores -- just lay back and let them fuck us however they want -- because they know what's best.

going on the 700 club was alarming at the very least.


supporting equal rights for women and the lgbtq community -- is the right thing to do -- you shouldn't get ''kudos'' for doing that.

anyway -- i didn't mean to go on like that -- i totally support what you said.

[mondo joe]

40. I don't think it's time to jump ship. But worth remembering there are

others who will gladly take out money. Or there's always Canada.

Every disenfranchised group has its own peculiar situation. Part of ours is that gays tend to be more economically privileged than some other groups. If that's all we've got we should maximize it for our own benefit, if it comes to that.

[readmoreoften]

42. Gays are not more economically privileged than other groups.

This is a horrible right wing talking point. Do you really think that lesbians are more economically privileged than straight women? Black gay men have it better than black straight men? Hispanic lesbians with children (40% have children according to NGLTF) better off than straight, married hispanic women with children?

Masculine, urban gay men from upper class families CAN do well for themselves in spite of the problems. But there are also WOMEN, GENDER QUEERS, WORKING CLASS PEOPLE, and PEOPLE OF COLOR in our community.

Our community is female and ethnic at the same rate as straights.

[mondo joe]

43. It's not universal, but as a group I believe we ARE more economically

priviliged.

[readmoreoften]

91. Is that just a belief.... or...what?

It's a pretty bold statement. I mean, two straight white men may be better off, especially if they're closeted or in an industry where they can network with one another because it is traditionally queer. It's pretty well established that two women living together are at an economic disadvantage. Anyone who is genderqueer is at an economic disadvantage.

You can believe in a right wing talking point if you want to (gays have no children so they're all rich!) but it doesn't make it true. Making sweeping generalizations about gays based on anecdotal white male experience is inaccurate at best and bigoted at worst.

[nolabels]

112. Yea readmoreoften why do they?

The insane desire to translate a belief into some fact to work off is how we all get to these stupid places. I once thought Howard to be a better man than that; that he had some compassion for all the rest of us no matter who we are, so much for my beliefs too.

It doesn't matter if your gay or not if you ask me, what Howard has done was reprehensible. I would like to kick the stupid SOB right back in the privates just like Howard just tried to do to so many others. The guy going on the sEven Hundred cult trying to pander. The Whore, if anybody is Howard

[JNelson6563]

55. Hey, go join the Log Cabin Rethugs then

Your hysteria would fit right in at FR.

[xchrom]

83. your kool-aid drinking, ditto-head, fundy like

ass kissing would be even better over there.

[wiley]

59. Dean's Statement didn't bother me at all

Maybe you should reread it in its' entirety. I don't support anything called "Gay Marriage". Bad enough it's a fraught and ill run venture among heterosexuals. But according gay men and lesbian the same or more respect and rights as married couples - correct me if I'm wrong - but Dean said that. Most gay men and lesbians I know are thrilled he got on the 700 club and said what he said. But I guess if they don't agree with your take on it they're cowardly dittoheads. Talk about vile and nasty. "ucking igs", right?

[TankLV]

67. To a one - I don't no of ONE SINGLE GAY PERSON who is "thrilled" he got on

that vile show! - NOT ONE! ME included.

"but some of my best friends are gay" crap - save it for your patsies.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[sui generis]

90. ..

[TankLV]

64. Deal with it - he says what a lot of US feel.

Don't jump into the water if you can't swim.

However, I will forgive him THIS ONE TIME.

BUT WE ARE PLACING THE ENTIRE DEMOCRATIC PARTY ON NOTICE: NO MORE FUCKUPS! WE WILL NOT BE "PLAYED" FOR OUR VOTES! NO MORE!

And if the rest of you feel it is OK to play us constantly and then expect us to still VOTE for you, then you've got a big surprise comming in November!

We represent A LOT OF PEOPLE - and we are not "amused" by any of this!

If you all continue to play us, we can find more important things to do on election day, that's for sure!

And as to the blame if the Democrats fail to win seats - I suggest YOU all look in the mirror if that comes to pass!

It will be YOUR fault, not ours!

[reichstag911]

66. So vote Repub --

see how that goes for ya.

[closeupready]

88. Be careful what you wish for.

eom

[TankLV]

107. Not necesary. I will withhold my vote or find somebody more to my liking.

I will NEVER vote repuke.

I know that voting dem on this will never change anything, if YOU are an example of the party!

You've got to EARN my vote this time around - get it?

That means you can't take us for granted like you've done - get it?

And you and your kind will have only YOURSELVES to blame - get it?

[IndianaGreen]

110. What's the difference if the Dem says the same thing that the GOP says

about gay rights and reproductive rights?

Get off your hetero high horse!

[mondo joe]

30. LOL - where else would citizens and voters be but in armchairs?

"Armchair lawyers" "armchair soldiers" and such are logical put downs because they describe a lack of actual relevant experience.

In the case of appealing to voters, however, the armchair is the right place to critique.

[xchrom]

49. right again mr mondo!

[JNelson6563]

53. That's funny

as I have found I learn the most about "voters" when I am going door to door with one of our candidates or when I am working our local Dem office and talking with the folks who come in. I learn very little about what the people/voters are thinking from my armchair and I have also noticed I get nothing accomplished from it either.

[VegasWolf]

69. Ahh! That explains it!

You are a DNC loyalist and DNC activist. Most of us mere mortals are more independently inclined and not so party extremist. We are not blinded by party, but would rather vote our conscience. We are just giving you extreme party loyalists our opinion in hopes that the DNC leadership will actually take a position different than RINOs. Otherwise, why vote?

[JNelson6563]

79. Really?

Wow, because I volunteer to help local candidates and have wroked hard to build my county party I am a blind loyalist? I should hope every poster on DU does nothing less if they hope to make any kind of difference in the real world.

I gather by your erroneous accusations your "activism" is limited to posting on the internet?

Julie

[VegasWolf]

84. Absolutely. My sister is like you but she is an activist for the RNC.

Political parties are just human organizations. They change with time, sometimes lean and mean and sometimes fat and sloppy. Loyalty to a party label is a static construct. If party positions change it is only fair that political alliances should change. Lately, I have seen very little from the DNC or DLC leadership that makes me proud. The rollover on their tummies on the Allito support, the war, the Patriot Act, etc. etc. etc., certainly would not make me want to volunteer my time or my monies to the DNC at this point. Given that the Republican Party is out of the question I will probably end up donating to 3rd Parties.

Zell Miller vs Rick Santorium, Joey Leiberman vs Pat Schroder, an anti-choice Democrat vs a pro-choice Republican. Hell, I don't see much difference between the two major parties. Much less anything near like what would be necessary for me to go out and be an activist like you.

[JNelson6563]

103. Intersting

Frankly I don't look at my activities through the national lens. I focus much more locally. My intention is to try to make the world a better place as far as my reach goes. I judge my lcoal candidates on their own merits, I don't consider them guilty for the wrong doing of Dems in DC. I help those I like and want to see win and ignore those I don't. I should think that would be a reasonable position for anyone on the planet.

My local party does public forums and community project along with registering voters and GOTV efforts. Again these are activities I should think everyone would think are worthwhile.

It saddens me to see a poster at DU admit to expecting the party to be made perfect, as if by magic or something, before investing personal involvement. To see criticism for those of us trying to affect these expect, magical changes is kind of ironic.

Julie

[VegasWolf]

108. Doesn't fly --

You are using a lame attempt to put words in my mouth and justify your zealotry which you are probably not even consciously aware of. I NEVER made any pretenses at being "made perfect." I outlined a litany of issues at which I feel the Democratic party has failed liberals.

Your degeneration into ad hominem attacks shows that you lack coherent arguments. I find it disheartening that a poster at DU can only argue at the sophomoric level you exhibit.

[JNelson6563]

109. haha good one

I work to make things better, you criticize but admit you will make no effort to improve things. Then I am blindly loyal, a zealot and sophomoric.

Wow.

Thank bob we have you to show the way to a more productive dialogue.

Julie

[VegasWolf]

113. I am working to make things better also -

I'm giving my money to Democrats like Feingold and 3rd party candidates who truly represent liberal values. I am not buying into this whole "D" label business. I didn't make my money by being a sheep. My money my vote.

PS - Your counter parts at the RNC also think they are working hard to improve the American way of life. Give us all liberty. Show the way to the pursuit of Justice. Put God first and foremost. Save the world from the liberals. Fill in the rest of the platitudes for yourself. I think all of fervent zealots are loonies.

[goclark]

25. Thank you acmavm

At least he admitted his mistake, and it was a big mistake.

But why do we keep chopping up our Leaders.

They are in the heat of battle every day and we want them to say everything EXACTLY the way we want it said every second.

If we want to challenge someone, let's challenge the RepubliCONS they give us plenty to work on.

[Tansy_Gold]

27. John Edwards

I'm not sure why I thought of him, but maybe it was just the prompting from your question.

I think Edwards still has his eye on the White House, and I don't blame him for that. And no, Edwards has not been as supportive of some progressive issues as I personally would like. But I think he has a much more solid sense of what a platform IS and from that foundation can lead the rest of the party to establishing a real Democratic/Liberal/Progressive platform that all candidates can stand firm on.

Dean isn't like that. He's essentially a PR man, and not a very good one. I don't hold it against the man personally that he screwed up on something as important as what the Democratic Party's position is on gay marriage; I hold it against him PROFESSIONALLY. After all, what was he doing on Robertson's show anyway? He was trying to reach out to people who are way the hell to the right of where the Democrats ARE already, and they're pretty far to the right of where they ought to be. So he should have come fully prepared, fully knowledgeable on ALL the hot button fundie issues. He wasn't speaking to a group of 15 Campus Crusaders -- he was speaking to a network of religious faithful. The performance bar is a lot higher, and Howard didn't get over it.

But it's not just Howard Dean who is failing right now. Most of the party regulars are, and one of the reasons is that they don't have a Leader (with a capital L). Someone who establishes policy the way the puke leadership has. We all know -- and so does the faithful puke core -- that the GOP is against abortion, against gay marriage, against taxing the rich, against the environment, against terror, etc. Those are semi-official stances, and few pukes dare to come out publicly against them.

I don't think John Edwards has a real chance to take the White House, at least not in the next two election cycles. But I do think he would make a helluva party leader. I think he would whip the rank and file into line.

Just a thought from

Tansy Gold

[acmavm]

50. Here's a thought. What would people be saying if he

refused to go on Robertson's show? They would be whining about how gutless he is, how exclusionary, and how he missed a chance to reach out, and on and on and on.......

People around here would bitch if they were shot with a new gun.

[TankLV]

68. That's YOUR opinion. Speculation at best.

Our concerns are valid, whether you like it or not.

Deal with it, or deal WITHOUT it!

[acmavm]

82. I guess it will have to be without because I just don't care

enough otherwise.

[TankLV]

95. So be it - if that's the way YOU want your bed made, you can wallow in it.

WE will have no part of it any longer.

[lastliberalintexas]

33. Oh, the powers that be have someone in mind alright

Someone who would be under the thumb of the Clintons so that when HRC "reluctantly" throws her hat in the ring the DNC will be at her disposal. Greeeat stratery, that. :eyes:



Dean never should have gone on this program, so he made a mistake. Not 1/10th as bad as any of the mistakes that the former DNC chair made, but it's so much fun to eat our own. Record fundraising and a 50 state outreach program lauded by on the ground activists simply aren't good enough for a party as, ahem, powerful as the Dem party.

[Guaranteed]

19. Dean apologizes over one sentence that was simply spin

of the actual platform.

But, no, that ain't good enough. Some need to push more drama.

Sectarian GARBAGE.

[Orsino]

45. No apology yet.

Dean has corrected his factual error, but seems inclined to let the drama continue. When will he apologize to the thousands/millions of Americans he slapped?

[TankLV]

70. Exactly. HE DID NOT "APPOLOGIZE" - I haven't heard or seen the words.

But even so, I am willing to give him ONE MORE CHANCE to not fuck-up any more.

ONE.

[BigDDem]

23. Next up for Dean...

speaking gig at Bob Jones U.

[TankLV]

71. Which he will vaguely "apologize" for according to some, so it will be OK.

[mondo joe]

29. I'm disappointed in Dean right now, but that's okay.

He still has my support, which as always depends on performance.

[Strathos]

36. Good for them

The National Gay and Lesbian Task Force demostrated balls when they did that. We don't need coddling of the Religious Reich. We do not need to pretend to believe something just to get people elected. STAN UP and say what you mean and mean what you say. (Of God, I've turned into Dr. Phil, what exactly is he a doctor of, anyway).

Fight for what is right.

You have to fight fire with water or dirt, not with fire. Put it out, let it smolder and add more water.

[closeupready]

38. Xtian fundies don't do CRAP next to all that gays do for the Dems; yet THI

THIS CRAP is what we have to "understand", "tolerate" etc. I'm so over it.

Newsflash: Gays and lesbians ARE ONE OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY'S MOST LOYAL CONSTITUENCIES. No group of Xtian fundie are EVER going to be reliably Democratic, and if it's a question of the interests of fundies versus interests of gays, GAYS SHOULD WIN.

Rant off.

[donco6]

51. It seems DUers are not much diff. from the rest of U.S.

They're only more than willing to throw us under the bus in the name of political expediency.

[stepnw1f]

60. That's Bullshit Talk OK?

I'm a Democrat and know most Dems supporting Gay rights, so don't start over-generalizing like you just did.

[VegasWolf]

74. I think he means the DNC "leadership". Oops! You're right he said DUers.

Bad. Bad.

[TankLV]

77. STOP MAKING EXCUSES!

The poster was correct.

YOU refuse to see it.

WE'RE really tired of it.

Time after time after time.

It gets old real fast.

Don't like the TRUTH - deal with it.

[stepnw1f]

81. Excuses.... What Truth

you call a negative interpretation of a mistatement truth? Oh... ok.... psssst. I did deal with it... now it's your turn. Bye.

[TankLV]

96. YOU are part of the problem.

Fuck off for all your abstract "concern" for "gay rights".

When the foot hits the pavement, you squeal "stop trying to ruin our party!"

Well, you and yours can go fuck off.

Bye indeed.

[crispini]

39. Thank you, Howard.

That's a start.

[Toucano]

44. Oh, please! He was being "Republican Lite"

He was trying to impress the Tali-born-again crowd and played into their trap.

It was a big mistake, but I forgive him for it. It was just a bad call.

If Democrats want to woo Christians, they should focus on the Christian message: i.e. charity for those less fortunate, tolerance of those who are different, and acceptance of God's gift of free will.

[lesab]

54. excuse me but....

One of the things that people on this board seem to keep forgetting is that 98% of Americans label themselves as being Christian. That means that GUESS WHAT! insulting Christians is insulting people who are right here fighting along side of you for your rights and our rights and people's (all equal)rights. There are a whole lot of Democrats who are Christians...like me and just about everybody that I know and love. We don't have a problem with gay people or any people for that matter. I spend so much time arguing with Right wing jerks over gay rights and so many gay people attack me as being stupid because I am a Christian. Well it should work both ways. The extremists are just that, so please stop stereotyping.

As for Gov. Dean.....I am greatly disappointed. I don't think it was an intentional error but if it was I AM DISGUSTED! Lets give him the benefit of the doubt this time and forgive him his humanity but let's not let this crap happen any more. The plain truth and facts about our stances on issues are good and right and should be haralded as such.

I would like to remind everyone that Jesus said "love thy neighbor" he did NOT say "if they look, act, and believe just like you". My Christian morals are what make me a Democrat and I came back to this party in a strong way because of Dean's truth speaking nature and his ability to stay strong and fight even when then odds were against him. I like him and hope that the involvement with the establishment has not gotten to him too. We need leaders who are really about the people they represent not about their own gain. I hope Dean is still that man. Time will tell........

[pschoeb]

72. 98% of Americans don't call themselves Christians

Probably not worth relying on you for factual information. I think the latest surveys says 82% call themselves Christian. The numbers from samples of Registered voters, is about 71%.

I don't see anyone insulting Christians as a total group, merely insulting Fundementalist Christians, specifically those that watch the 700 Club, anyone who watches and likes the 700 club deserves to be ridiculed.

[Deja Q]

61. Oops.

Why must he give material for his opponents to work with?

[FlaGranny]

78. Throw him out.

He should send all the record amounts of money he has collected for local Democrats back. He has failed! His apology is not satisfactory. HE IS NOT PERFECT. Out with him.

:sarcasm:

[lumpy]

80. Glad you included that sarcasm

sign, Grans. Hope we give this a rest.

[walldude]

97. While I like Dean I'm suprised to see so many people

here sticking up for him. If he had made that statement in a speech, or somewhere else I might have bought that it was a mistake, but the man was on the freakin 700 club. That was not a "mistake" or some kind of misstatement, he knew exactly what he was saying. Trying to appeal to voters he has no business appealing to. The people who watch the 700 club are "the base". They will never vote for a dem and there is no reason to throw your and your parties values away to try to snatch a few votes away from the "base". The repukes are going to eat him alive with the old "flip-flop" thing now. I don't advocate kicking him out but he needs some fucking sense smacked into his head.

[Bruden]

98. This whole mess has just been odd.

[spanone]

99. How could Mr. Dean 'misstate' one of our major platform differences?

Ambien?

[Mr_Spock]

101. Let's cut off our nose to spite our face.

...as if the Dems are not supportive of gays all of a sudden.

[madfloridian]

104. After this week, I think he should just leave....

go back to DFA and work with them, give speeches, whatever, and run again in 08.

They have him muzzled pretty effectively, and if he tries to work with all of the party, not just part of it...he gets blasted.

That would solve your problem. Next in line for chair would likely be Harold Ickes, Simon Rosenberg, or Leo Hindery. Check out their views on things. Let them lead.

Might even be Begala or Carville.

I think he is muzzled. Damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. Most of us who are DFA did not want him there to begin with. After this week, I think he should just leave.

[madfloridian]

105. The video is up in GDP forum

I feel like throwing things across the room. I really do. It is calm and intelligent. I think he should go back with DFA where he is appreciated . I am furious at the fuss made over a nice interview.

[Strathos]

111. Like my mama says,

You can't excuse a dog after it done bit ya!