Mexican flag burned at (Pheonix) HS (raised above US flag)

[truthpusher]

http://www.azstarnet.com/allheadlines/122555

Mexican flag burned at Apache Junction HS
------------------
By Blake Herzog
East Valley Tribune
Tucson, Arizona | Published: 03.31.2006
------------------
Tensions over immigration reform heightened in the Phoenix area's East Valley Thursday when students raised a Mexican flag over Apache Junction High School — and then other students yanked it down and burned it.

"I know (they) shouldn't have burned the Mexican flag," said Jacob Stewart, a 16-year-old sophomore. "I heard it was raised above the American flag and that just irked me."

(snip)

Freshman Chelsea Garcia, 15, and junior Brittany Ramage, 16, said the unrest had more to do with long-running racial tensions at the school.

(snip)

The Hispanic student who brought the Mexican flag said he was responding to a remark directed at him Wednesday. The flag-raising, flag-burning, and shoving match that followed happened before most students arrived at school.

(snip)

School flagpoles have been lightning rods across the country this week, including an incident in which a Houston high-school principal was disciplined after he flew a Mexican flag underneath his campus' U.S. and state flags.

(snip)


complete story: http://www.azstarnet.com/allheadlines/122555

[yellowcanine]

1. Flying a Mexican flag in Arizona and Texas could be considered

celebrating heritage, could it not? Texas and Arizona were once part of Mexico, were they not?

[TomInTib]

4. You forgot New Mexico and California!

This has the potential to become really nasty.

I know people in Mexico that harbor the same feelings (if not more bitter) about this issue as some of us true Southerners do regarding the War Between the States.

[yellowcanine]

6. Actually I didn't. The two incidents cited were in Texas and Arizona.

[lovuian]

79. does Anybody remember the Alamo???

Some Texans still do...Theres a Big Sam Houston statue out there somewhere...

[manic expression]

92. And no one can remember

the conflict or have any perspective on it. If they did, they'd know it was a disgusting land grab and a bit of blatant and bloody theft on the part of the US.

[saigon68]

131. USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA

[RawMaterials]

51. this is probably going to happen

[TomInTib]

57. I wouldn't mind at all. That way, we could keep * out of..

both of my home States (Texas and California).

[jus_the_facts]

59. We should have made Mexico another state years ago.....

[Beacho]

70. What bullshit

Where did you get that gif? stormfront.org?

OOOOOH NOOOOO!!!! THE MUD PEOPLE ARE CUMMIN FER OUR WIMMIN-FOLK!!!

You should be effin ashamed of yourself

[RawMaterials]

71. http://www.us-english.org/inc/

[Beacho]

73. Same effin difference

English only retards are just a half step away from stormfront.

[Marie26]

100. You win the "Most Ignorant Post" Award

There's been a lot of top contenders, so the award really means something. Congratulations!

[Celeborn Skywalker]

111. In NM, things are different

we are one of the few southwestern states that doesn't have a large amount of immigrants coming across our borders. Because of this fact, the Mexican influence in this area has dwindled over the past century and most Hispanics here are opposed to both illegal immigration and Mexican nationalism. Odd, yet true. We seem to be a special case, though.

[corporate_mike]

129. These will show up there shortly

[TankLV]

75. And they LOST did they not?

I'll start to consider it when Mexico and other countries start to display the American flag.

Since I doubt that will happen any time soon, I'm totally against it.

THIS IS THE US, NOT MEXICO!

[manic expression]

93. Yeah,

what, exactly, is your point?

They LOST, just like the Ethiopians LOST to the Italian fascists, just like the Tibetans LOST to the Chinese, just like the Chinese in Nanking LOST to the Japanese, just like the Jews LOST to the Spanish Inquisition...I could go on and on and on...

Many countries displayed the American flag in a sign of condolence and respect after 9/11. You were considering what?

This is where they live, now, too, so get used to it.

[Milspec]

120. OK this is were "they" live now

Is it to much to ask that 20 million more don"t "live here now" By storming a boarder

[kestrel91316]

96. I am no flag-waving super-patriot, but I do know that one NEVER

flies the flag of another nation over an American flag on American soil. NEVER. This is worse than letting it touch the ground.

I would have been the one to burn the Mexican flag if I'd been there.

[dionysus]

106. cha-ching

we have a winner

[CTyankee]

115. I understand, but do you have a problem with the Irish flag

being displayed in St. Patrick's Day marches down the main streets of many US towns and cities and the Italian flag displayed on Columbus Day celebrations in same towns and cities?

[Igel]

132. I don't know about kestrel, but I would have

roughly the same problem with the Eire flag being flown above the American flag. To fly a flag above another is to assert sovereignty or supremacy. My genes may have stayed in Ireland for many generation before crossing the Atlantic, but that does not mean that I have to assert Irish sovereignty over any part of the US. I am not one that feels that my genes compel me to know a language or participate in a particular cultural tradition.

To fly the Mexican flag is, IMHO, at least two-fold offensive. First off, the Mexican government is not sovereign over Arizona, not over Apache Junction, not even over Coolidge or Florence. Second, the Irish example isn't all that inappropriate: the student who raised the flag, no doubt, had ethnicity in common with those who had previously raised the flag over the territory when it was Mexican; but, like me, his ancestors have as much claim to being indigenous to Arizona as mine do to being indigenous to Texas. Some sharing his ethnic heritage may claim to be indigenous to the area, but that's rather like my claiming my Irish blood is indigenous to Spain (because some Iberian Ligurians may have travelled and intermarried at some point with Irish Celts) or to Switzerland (because my 'blood' is indigenous to Europe and both Ireland and Switzerland are both, well, in Europe). I could mount a better democracy/self-determination argument for Texas' becoming American in the 1840s than I could for Arizona's being Mexican in the 16-19th centuries.

I'd have slightly more tolerance for the Irish flag over the US flag, to be honest. But only slightly. There's no claim of colonialist-based sovereignty by Ireland over any part of the US, so it can only be ironic or in jest, and so my objection, mostly formal, is devoid of any further political overtones.

[CTyankee]

136. flag stuff

In the Northeast states, I thinkthe Irish flag has a lot of hostile feeling behind it, altho it ismostly aimed at Great Britain (as it should be).My sense is that it is an anti-empirialist flag, which is in keeping with the Mexican flag. The analogies are, of course, not completely analogous, but you see the point inthe better developed over the less developed countries. That is the real issue here anyway. Controlling countries for their production of raw materials and not allowing them to develop to higher levelof production, and thus to more advanced levels of industrial power, is a problem.

As a second generation Texan, lately moved to CT, I can speak to Texas heritage. On my father's side, there were 19th century immigrants from England and Wales. But on my mother's side, our forebear immigrated from Scotland in 1790 (to Georgia). I have no idea why. My guess is that he was Scots-Irish who saw a better deal beckoning in the new U.S. than in No. Ireland where the Scots had been placed to oversee the Irish. Who knows? But it was at base an imperialist motive behind the whole deal.

[saltpoint]

2. God damn it, I hate stories like this. Schools have higher purposes

than to foster environments in which people are disdained, bullied, or ostracized for being different from a majority social model.

And generally speaking, the politics of flags is revolting start to finish.

I hope to hear the voices of MANY local pastors, rabbis, etc. and other community leaders to cool a few brows and put some compassionate citizenship and welcome back into the school environment.

[depakid]

50. You and I both

Amen on that.

[Inland]

74. These students have too much time on their hands all in all.

The school flag pole, flags, aren't personal property. Get to class, or some other school sponsored activity, or go home. I don't know about the politics of flags being revolting, but it's a high school, and all politics there are suspect and, apparently, largely sophomoric.

[saltpoint]

86. Yeah -- I was thinking though of the Hispanic kids and staff who

are there doing good things: athletics, concert band, science club, etc.

They shouldn't have to look out on the front lot to see the flag of their ancestors set to blaze by their classmates.

[HereSince1628]

3. Nationalism and reactions to xenophobia are purulent examples

of just how corrupting 6 years of Fascist leaning leadership actually is.

Wake up America! It's happening here, today.

[bigluckyfeet]

27. Mexico Belonged to Spain

Maybe Spain wants Mexico back.

[Minnesota Libra]

5. Federal law says no flag is to be flown above ..................

.....the American flag, in fact I think there is a fine and potential jail time connected with a conviction too.

[cleofus1]

7. well i'd like to see a link

to somewhere official that explains that law in more detail...

[Freddie Stubbs]

22. PUBLIC LAW 94 - 344

SEC. 2

c) No other flag or pennant should be placed above or, if on the same level, to the right of the flag of the United States of America, except during church services conducted by naval chaplains at sea, when the church pennant may be flown above the flag during church services for the personnel of the Navy. (See Public Law 107, page 4)

http://www.bcpl.net/~etowner/flagcode.html

[tandot]

23. here is a link

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode04/usc_se...


§ 7. Position and manner of display

(g) When flags of two or more nations are displayed, they are to be flown from separate staffs of the same height. The flags should be of approximately equal size.International usage forbids the display of the flag of one nation above that of another nation in time of peace.

(emphasis added by me)


They should not have flown the Mexican flag above the American flag. It can be interpreted as a provocation meant to insult.

[Viking12]

53. Not all laws are Constitutional...

I would venture that any attmpt at conviction under this statute would get thrown out in line with the Texas V Johnson (1989) flag burning case.

[northzax]

60. there are no penalities, the Flag Code is really more of a guidance

than a proscriptive law.

[kestrel91316]

97. I consider it an act of war, but that's just me.

[fujiyama]

128. An act of war by whom?

A bunch of fuckin kids?

It was a stupid stunt/prank that backfired on them. It was provacative and a stupid thing to do (though I'd have to say that burning the Mexican flag was unecessary as well).

Me thinks you are exagerrating a slight bit.

[Poll_Blind]

9. I recall something to that effect. It's very disrespectful, in the least,

...to display a flag above the national flag. That's true all over the world as far as flags go.

PB

[cleofus1]

14. the flag is a symbol of our freedoms

which includes freedom of political speech...i could see someone taking it down but burning it and then fighting? sounds like those soccer hooligans in ireland or something....

[keroro gunsou]

119. excuse me?

last time i checked, the majority of badly behaved soccer fans were british. the irish fans are by no means saints themselves, but the brits take it to another level. but that's neither here nor there in this discussion.

a prior poster is most correct, 6 years of the current.... er... regime has made some of us less than civilized... but hey why should we be, we're americans, we're the best.... *imagine a tone of dripping sarcasm saying that please*

[cleofus1]

140. so sorry to offend on the irish hooligan thing

it was a joke...but you knew that...

[yellowcanine]

10. Yeah and I am sure the Confederate wannabees pay a lot of attention to

Federal flag etiquette.

[maryallen]

28. And I'm sure that sixteen-year-olds were right on top of that law!

(Not.)
No, they were, unfortunately, probably reflecting the attitudes that they had learned at home.

We're in for a rough ride here in the USA over the next 25 years ...

[onebox30]

8. Not a good sign. Decent people don't burn flags.

I don't like to see flags getting burnt in this country. I understand that everyone has the right to use the flag they purchased in any manner they deem fit, but it is really inciting and quite liable to set-off violent confrontation. Scared, frustrated people tend to retreat into nationalism. Burning their nation's flag is the most sure way to goad them into confrontation. Don't do it.

[Poll_Blind]

12. The Constitution beleives in us so much that it allows us to...

...burn copies of it, if we so chose, as symbolic speech. It neither harms or strengthens The Constitution when someone burns a flag- it is merely an exercise in Free Speech guaranteed by our founding fathers.

PB

[kestrel91316]

98. Many years ago I burned a teeny American flag (6") as an act of

political protest AGAINST AN ANTI-FLAG-BURNING AMENDMENT that was being proposed..........

First Amendment and all.........

[CTyankee]

117. Not arguing for flag burning but it seems that

flag burning can reasonably be considered covered under the 1st Amendment to the Constitution (do we really have to re-argue this?).

That being said, to oppose flag burning, could we not say that we oppose the 1st amendment, which would be to oppose the Constitution? It is the Constitution, not the flag, that protects our liberties as citizens. The flag is a symbol of our country, to be sure. The Constitution, onthe other hand, is the living proof of our rights as American citizens.

[alarcojon]

11. I can see taking the flag down

but burning it is an act of hate (I'll let the lawyers determine if it is a hate crime).

[Solo_in_MD]

90. I beleive that flag burning is considered free speech

and therefore not a hate crime.

[Richard Steele]

109. It's not "free speech" when it's someone else's flag.

It is theft, and destruction of property.

[Solo_in_MD]

110. Quite right, I stated that in post #94

[flashdebadge]

13. I would have yanked that Mexican flag down myself.

Regardless of who is in the white house, the our flag stands for principles that when followed will keep this country the greatest place in the world to live and work. It's not perfect but non of us are leaving either. To raise the Mexican flag over our own is to say that this is Mexican territory, Mexican property and that Mexican law should rule the day. I don't know about the rest of you but I've been to Laredo. I've been to Mexico City. GOD FORBID this country ever resemble either! If you want to live in this country because of the opportunities that abound here, then upon your arrival, your highest goal should be to protect the very ideals and principles that have kept it this way before you arrived. It's not perfect, but it's ours. God bless America.

my 2 cents.

[cleofus1]

16. well as far as political speech is concerned

you can burn your own flag to your hearts content...but if you take someone elses flag and burn it against their will that is not protected...and if you want to protect the ideals of america...that is one thing...but blind nationalism to a peice of cloth is not what the flag represents...

[alarcojon]

18. Hear hear!

[2DleftofU]

24. Absolutely

To treat the flag of another country is wrong.

Of course, this does not apply to any Mexican who takes down a U.S. flag. Or to those in the middle east who burn the U.S. flag. Or to the French. Or to anyone really. I guess as long as only the U.S. flag is disrespected everyone is better off and happy. Except for the Freepers, but do we really care what they think?

[tandot]

34. If you read the threat you'll notice that lots of DUers would have

taken down the Mexican flag and burned it themselves.

And you are absolutely right that we don't care what those ignorant freepers think. They wrap themselves in the American flag while trampling on the Constitution. Being a Patriot means more than just waving the flag.

Here is a little gem from Theodore Roosevelt

"Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the President or any other public official save exactly to the degree in which he himself stands by the country. It is patriotic to support him insofar as he efficiently serves the country. It is unpatriotic not to oppose him to the exact extent that by inefficiency or otherwise he fails in his duty to stand by the country."

or:

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or any one else. But it is even more important to tell the truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than about any one else.
Kansas City Star (7 May 1918)"

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Theodore_Roosevelt



There are many more Patriots here on DU than you'll ever encounter on freerepublic.

[Solo_in_MD]

94. Please clarify

If I burn any flag that I do not own, its theft, vandalism, etc

If I burn a flag, regardless of nation etc that I own, its protected speech.

Appropriateness is another question entirely.

[cleofus1]

113. yes

i believe that is what i meant...sorry to be so vague

[alarcojon]

17. Laredo, Texas?

That's IN the U.S. - the poor, forgotten part of the U.S., but it IS part of our nation. Go to some inner cities. Go to some Indian reservations. Go to any number of rural areas. Been to NEW ORLEANS lately?

BTW, I agree with you that the Mexican flag should have been taken down, but feel that burning it was an unnecessary act of provocation. I noticed you were silent on the burning part.

[FlaGranny]

37. There's a Laredo right across the border in Mexico, too,

I believe - Neuvo Laredo? Maybe that's what he meant.

[TX-RAT]

38. Yep

[Ezlivin]

21. I would have pushed my wheelchair out there and burned it myself

In fact, I could go to the VA and get a few hundred fellow veterans to help me.

Know how to treat the American flag or find another country to fly your ensign.

[alarcojon]

25. I'm sorry, I don't have time to read your entire link

but could you point out the part where burning another nation's flag was called for?

[mondo joe]

55. You ought not to burn other people's property.

I don't think the Mexican flag should have been flown over the US flag.

But that's no reason to damage other peoples' property.

[Lost-in-FL]

62. Are you talking about the US flag?

Cause there's lots of American flags. You know Canada has a flag, Mexico has a flag, Belize, etc, etc. and they are all American.

North America? South America? Central America?

[Ezlivin]

84. I was referring to the Mexican flag

No flag should fly higher than ours (unless it is at the United Nations Headquarters).

No other flag or pennant should be placed above or, if on the same level, to the right of the flag of the United States of America, except during church services conducted by naval chaplains at sea, when the church pennant may be flown above the flag during church services for the personnel of the Navy. No person shall display the flag of the United Nations or any other national or international flag equal, above, or in a position of superior prominence or honor to, or in place of, the flag of the United States at any place within the United States or any Territory or possession thereof: Provided, That nothing in this section shall make unlawful the continuance of the practice heretofore followed of displaying the flag of the United Nations in a position of superior prominence or honor, and other national flags in positions of equal prominence or honor, with that of the flag of the United States at the headquarters of the United Nations. U.S. Flag Code

Perhaps I'm being a bit dramatic when I say I'd burn the Mexican flag. But I would definitely lower it and remove it from the same flagpole.

[cleofus1]

114. so if the children

had tried to stop you...what would you and your army of vets have done?

[bigluckyfeet]

29. Well Said flashdebadge

Amen....I feel the same way.I would like to see an American go to Mexico and raise the american flag,they probably would hang him.

[Lost-in-FL]

64. Or they might just think he is stupid and leave it like that

I think we are the only ones making such big stink about a piece of rag.

[Virginia Dare]

15. This was just a matter of time..

and I predict we'll start to see violence as well in the near future. I'm extremely worried about this.

On edit: it just broke in Northern Virginia that a teen was stabbed at an anti-immigration rally. God, I hate it when I'm right about these things.

[ugarte]

33. Republicans are loving it...nt

[Virginia Dare]

43. Divide and conquer....EOM

[Deja Q]

124. Last I recall, Repubs are just as divided on the issue.

Seems surprising, if you were to ask for my opinion of course... very surprising indeed. Why shake up one's own political party? One that is usually pro-corporate to boot.

[David__77]

19. White chauvinism.

The racists always use the US flag, similarly to how they use the confederate flag. One should be careful not to feed into this trend.

[Codeine]

47. But not Mexican chauvinism?

Or are only white Americans capable of being guilty of that little sin? I personally think that raising a foreign flag above our own on government property is an extremely chauvinistic act, myself.

[QC]

58. Sorry, but only melanin deficient penised persons can be chauvinistic.

I know it's true because I learned it on DU!

[Marie26]

103. QC, if you are against immigration,

why not defend that position instead of making drive-by posts?

[rucky]

20. Phoenix is going to blow.

racial tension's at a high.

[ugarte]

31. The Republican script continues to play perfectly

Race wars just in time for November.

[Phx_Dem]

39. I think we will be fine

did anyone read about a opinion study done in mexico in the last few weeks? It was pretty disturbing, apparently Mexican citizens don't think much of the US. Seriously, they have a love/hate thing going on.

[Miss Chybil]

41. I doubt it. We'll be fine. nt

[Marie26]

102. I hope not

But I find this whole thing so depressing. I really get, now, how violence & ethnic cleansing begins. There's some people who sound ready to start taking out immigrants based on a little propaganda & a lot of resentment.

[Beausoir]

26. Sounds like the past week at DU to me.

Too many people here have their identity wrapped up in a piece of cloth instead of what the cloth stands for.

[ugarte]

30. Just what the Repubs wanted to happen with so-called immigration "reform"

Stoke the fires of anti-immigrant (Mexicans) hatred and reap the nativist backlash.

[Beacho]

32. Oh great more Flagtards

Getting all pissy because someone is using protest to accent the abuse they've suffered at the injustices perpetrated on UNITED STATES CITIZENS!

Maybe if you were constantly asked for your green card because the INS was looking for lily white Mic illegals you'd understand.

Direct some of your moral outrage that your fellow citizens are being abused, instead of a piece of cloth, then it wouldn't be an issue

I'm going to link to this again

bookmark this link and send it to everyone you know

[ugarte]

35. Exactly. It's not about the flag...just like LA was not about Rodney King

It's about discrimination and "Kick 'em all out and send 'em back to Mexico."

[YellowRubberDuckie]

112. It's discrimation to want people to enter our country LEGALLY?

That's just ridiculous. I don't understand. If they love Mexico so much, go back and make it more like America. If we were to go to Mexico and do what those kids in Phoenix did they'd freak. It's hypocritical, and it pisses me off. I'm with the veteran earlier in the thread. Too many people died to up hold our constitution and what our flag stands for for those freaking idiots to be disrespecting it like that.
Explain something to me. Why do people move to a different country and try to make it into their country. That they left. Because they hated it so much? for whatever reason? If we were to move to, say, Germany and do the same thing, we'd get criticized harshly. But if we want people to come into our country legally, we're assholes. God, that is the biggest load of BS I've ever heard!
Duckie

[CTyankee]

118. Yes, and I'm so sick of this. I have lots of Mexican students

in my tutoring classes at Literacy Volunteers here in New Haven. These are the hardest working, nicest human beings you would ever want to meet. They are friendly, they work a hard day's work and then come to literacy classes to learn English. They are dedicated to becoming good Americans. Not many Americans would make the effort they do, coming to class from 7 to 9 at night after working all day at physically demanding jobs (construction, landscaping, stone masonry). I enjoy talking with them because they are so upbeat about everything, even tho they live in some of the poorest area of the city.

I'm sorry, I think these folks are great. I'm against the haters.

[Beausoir]

46. Thank you! Great link! n/t

[Lost-in-FL]

54. Thank you for your link!

Great read.

[Ms. Clio]

56. Great link, thanks! n/t

[northzax]

63. yes, 70% of Latinos are not immigrants

great. what does that have to do with the protest at hand? are you trying to imply that the person who flew the Mexican flag at the school is definately and American Citizen? I would wager than he isn't, or doesn't want to be (given that the symbolism of flying one nation's flag above another's is clear, the top flag represents sovereignty. It was the whole point of the protest.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

107. Because 16 year old kids always think through their actions completely...

[northzax]

108. what do you think his message was?

what was he trying to say, but raising the Mexican Flag above that of the US flag? Can you think of any other possible interpretation? anything?

[Igel]

133. "Mic"?

Do you mean 'mick'?

Isn't that up there with the lexicon of hate speech I grew up with? 'Pollock', 'wop', 'fag', and the infamous n-word.

But then again, 'flagtard' is just a take-off on 'retard', which I was taught is also a dehumanizing term of abuse and, well, hate.

[genieroze]

36. It's disrespectful on all levels. To display the Mexican flag above the

American one is disrespectful, but to burn the Mexican flag is equally disrespectful. Just like the protests when the Mexican flag was flown above the American one and the American one was upside down, that really ticked me off, but at least they weren't burning it.

[Megahurtz]

80. Which protests did they do this at? n/t

[genieroze]

99. Donb't know but it was posted on DU.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[genieroze]

127. We’re Just Doing the Jobs You Gringos Won’t Do (Ha! Ha!)

I think this mentions the flying of the flag upside down

We’re Just Doing the Jobs You Gringos Won’t Do (Ha! Ha!)

by Esteban Casaverde

Man, this was one great party. My friends and I ran around the 110 Freeway waving Mexican flags and yelling, "Mexico, Mexico, Mexico." Lupe almost got run over by one of those rickety trucks with a Baja California license plate, but she’s OK. Most important, the TV cameras were there and those gringos in the U.S. Senate heard our message: "Stop picking on those of us who do jobs no one else will do!"

We just want to be Americans ... which is what the Anglo media keep repeating. They keep finding the few people in the crowd with American flags and zeroing in on that, ignoring that almost everyone else has a proud Mexican flag. We don’t want to be stinking Americans, with our kids talking like valley girls and eating hamburgers. We want America to become like Mexico, which is why those amigos in Whittier and Montebello hoisted the Mexican flag on the flagpole and turned the American flag upside down.

We all know that line, about doing jobs no Americans will do, is a lie.

I’m just a humble worker, but I do suspect that many Americans would paint houses, lay tile, trim palm trees and so on, although they won’t do the jobs at the wage at which I’ll do them. As long as people keep repeating that, how you say, mantra, we will be viewed as heroes rather than freeloaders. My only problem: I’ve been here a few years and make decent-enough pay, but those amigos who keep coming across the border keep undercutting my wages.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/greenhut/greenhut40.html

[cleofus1]

130. does not sound real

sounds like a political parody...with no legal obligation to speak the truth

[Igel]

134. I would hope it's parody.

"Gringo" is on par with 'wetback'.

While many in Texas and elsewhere seem to think 'anglo' is ok, if a Latino describes me as 'Anglo' I insist on referring to him (or her) as 'Spanish' or 'espanol'. Some take offense: The Spanish conquered indigenous territory, yada-yada. Then I explain my ancestors were Celtic, their lands invaded and their families oppressed by Angles and Saxons; then, as (legal) immigrants to the US, they were also marginalized and discriminated against. The typical dark-skinned Mexican (immigrant or not) is as Spanish as I am Anglo, thank you.

[cleofus1]

141. the article was written by a "gringo"

just like the dudes who dressed up like indians and threw tea overboard in boston harbor....it was not written by a mexican...but by a white guy...trying to be inciteful of hatred...

[AzDar]

40. You have to wonder what would happen if someone traveled to

Mexico City and tried raising the U.S. flag over THEIR National flag??
Flag burning in and of itself, I have no problem with...it isn't the piece of cloth that is sacred, but rather what it REPRESENTS, after all.
Tensions here in AZ are running very high right now....

[Phx_Dem]

42. you really think so?

"Tensions here in AZ are running very high right now...."

What makes you think that?

Seems like business as usual to me....

[Beacho]

72. Another one misses the point

What would be closer is "What if a bunch of anglo ex pats, now Mexican citizens, raised the US flag as a protest to being harrassed for being anglos?".

For the last effing time, these protesters ARE AMERICAN CITIZENS!!!

What the hell does one have to do, get a goddam See N Spell to make it clear?

[AzDar]

82. "being harassed'??? WTF are you talking about? The harassment

is coming from the 'protesters', baby. And as to legality...it's estimated that 70% of those marching last week were ILLEGAL.
BTW...I believe the instrument you are attempting to reference is a 'Speak N Spell'.

[Beacho]

83. Estimated by who?

Eh?

I personally know people who have been harrassed for proof of citizenship that were born here.

And you say YOU'RE harrassed? Give me a break

[AzDar]

85. Where did I say that *I* was harassed? EH? Since it's not my job to

enlighten those who aren't..... I'll end this by asking you to 'Google' the Theodore Roosevelt quote regarding immigrants.
You'll learn plenty.
Peace.

[Beacho]

87. I really give less than a damn what Teddy said

And yes I know the quote. typical WASP sentiment at the time. What language and what form is spoken by the people of this country is not the business of the goverment, it will be decided by the people themselves

You still didn't answer the question. How was the number of illegals in the demonstrations estimated?

[barb162]

139. How do you know the protesters are citizens of the US?

[Deja Q]

125. Bingo.

It works both ways.

And as much as we could want to dream about country borders being eliminated (aka full globalization, one world order), we still have the reality of the here and now to contend with.

And putting some other entity's flag above the National one is usually not a sign of a friendly act... that's also a reason why State flags are never higher than America's...

[Bridget Burke]

44. "I heard it was raised above the American flag and that just irked me."

Any pictures of this violation of flag etiquette?

Any proof at all?

[underpants]

48. That was the first thing I thought too- he "heard" about it?

Geesh where were the pitchforks and torches?

[JohnnyJ]

45. These are just the first signs......

you wait 50 years when ethnic Mexicans have a 80% majority in the Southwestern states -- there will be no more American flag up. Personally I support this because in my view it's their land to begin with that was stolen from them by a bunch of old white slave owners a 150 years back.

That'll be the beginning of the civil war.

[Bridget Burke]

52. The ethnic Mexicans won't "take over" Houston....

Even if their numbers grow as projected. The Vietnamese won't let them have it. Nor the Pakistanis, Koreans, Chinese, etc.

We'll still be flying a bunch of flags!

[Name removed]

67. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bridget Burke]

68. Am I supposed to be scared?

Sorry, I'm not.

[Igel]

135. Rather like a hypothetical war between

the French and the Spanish over the Basque Lands, isn't it?

[warrens]

49. Someone notify Michelle Malkin

The lying pig.

[lies and propaganda]

61. thats b.f.e AZ, nowhere near Phx.

But still Arizona, so no surprise.
AJ does have a lesbian trailer park though which is pretty rad.

[Phx_Dem]

65. you live in Tempe?

you live about 7-8miles from AJ.

[lies and propaganda]

69. little further than that, but my description applies

its in the middle of nowhere, not a real big tourist destination.

I just thought it should be clear that that isnt Phoenix to people who dont know the area.

[AzDar]

66. LOL..While Apache Junction IS b.f.e., it's only 20-25 miles from downtown

Phoenix, and is definitely considered a suburb of same...lots of folks commute.

[Citizen Kang]

121. To those who don't know the area....

Apache Junction is on the far outskirts of the Phoenix metropolitan area. In fact it is not even in the same county as Phoenix. To say that this is happening in Phoenix is a stretch. Still, it is a sign of things to come. Welcome to the Balkanization of America, courtesy of the New World Order.

[Wise Doubter]

76. I just don`t get it...

Why fly the Mexican flag ?? Or, any flag for that matter, other than the United States. You know the country you feel is so much better - that`s why you come here. If you are an "immigrant" we obviously know you are from some place else. Hence the term immigrant.

I think there would be far less resentment and disdain if the U.S. flag were only flown during any protest march.. No disrespect to any other nation. We are a melting pot.

If the situation were reversed(which it might be sooner than we think) I don`t think anyone would be protesting in the streets of another nation flying the stars and stripes.

sounds silly, huh ?

Flying the flag of another seems to imply allegiance to that country.

Just my opinion.

[Bridget Burke]

77. Most of us don't feel any resentment & disdain for the Mexican flag.

And I don't really care about those who do. They wouldn't be sympathetic to the plight of immigrants, anyway.

I don't think NOTHING should be done--but building a wall & deporting all of them is just stupid.

[Wise Doubter]

88. Not the Mexican flag....

The people waving it with such fervor.


If their feelings for this country are so great they should be waving the stars and stripes, screaming at the top of their lungs "USA USA USA. I love this country! Thank you for allowing me to feed my family ! "


This place ain`t perfect, but it`s all we got, right now.

[jonas_stradlater]

78. I'm not too surprised by this.

When I went to H.S. a couple years ago in tucson, the racial tensions were a little high and sometimes increased to a point where there were fights. Many children of illegals went to that school. I remember these kids were treated like shit by whites or even chicanos, called "wacho","sand niggers", "beaners" and other names.
So when immigration becomes such a hot topic, I'm not surprised events like this occur.
Yeah raising the Mex. flag over the U.S. flag was wrong, but burning the Mex. flag was even worse. After being ostracized and looked down upon for this long, I won't be surprised if things get worse.
I also doubt if this even has anything to do with the details of immigration reform. Hispanics are tired of being treated like second-class citizens, so when they think a anti-Hispanic movement is growing (which I personally think is), they'll get pissed and events like this will increase.

[Book Lover]

81. Pathetic

[Codeine]

89. I agree.

Flying the Mexican flag on school property above the US flag is indeed pathetic.

[RedXIII]

91. How about we

try to fly the Union Jack on Guy Fawk's day and the Irish flag on St.patrick's day.

and if anyone complains we should point to the fact that they were allowed to fly the Mexican flag and accuse them of discrimination.

[cleofus1]

116. so you think that adults

equate to kids in a school? they were protesting and the act they participated in was political speech...the fact that it inflames so many people on this site is unerving...it was a protest...and they wanted to make a point and so they raised the mexican flag over the american flag...maybe we should try to figure out why they feel the need to protest and get to the crux of these "bad feelings"...instead of inciting incendiary rhetoric...

[The Straight Story]

95. Fine by me

Burning flags is protected speech I think.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

138. Not if it belongs to someone else. -nt

[blackhorse]

101. Here's a concept -

Remove the flagpoles from the schools!

It is completely unsurprising that flags and flagpoles are being messed around with; I mean, come on: U. S. flags are flown all over the place in America. Their ubiquity makes them a natural target.

In other countries (where, yes, the people like their home just as much Americans like theirs), one doesn't see the national flag being flown all over the place. The flags are seen only once in a while, usually displayed around a government institution. People recognize their national flag, but don't obsess over it.

Folks, the truth is that so much flag-flying is a sign of rabid nationalism. Not patriotism, but nationalism in one of its rawest and ugliest forms. That others react to such an obvious display of nationalist politics is, well, to be expected.

BH

[Llewlladdwr]

143. Public schools ARE government institutions.

N\T

[blackhorse]

145. So what?

In other countries, public schools are also set up by their governments. But in many countries I've been in, those schools don't fly any flag, much less the national flag.

And I don't recall the public schools in the USA being >U. S. Government< institutions, so why are they flying the national flag? But to say it again, the whole business of flag-waving is totally overboard in the USA. No wonder it provokes reaction.

BH

[Blue_Tires]

104. yeesh

BOTH sides were wrong in that Arizona dispute...

But I don't know what the problem is with the Houston principal that flew the flag BELOW the US and State flags...

[Mr.Green93]

105. The racist hate monger has been arrested for arson.

There will be justice.

[YouthInAsia]

122. No problemo here aside from the fact that someone may have

gotten burned

[The_Casual_Observer]

123. Demonstrates how weak and pathetic americans have become.

Bullying and mob crap. It's like the German population in the early 30's.

[dweller]

142. Ding. Ve haf a Weiner!

and after 24 hours, no one has disagreed with you.

sad, eh?
dp

[fujiyama]

126. This is getting so stupid

People seem so obsessed with flags.

First of all, raising a foreign country's flag over the American flag on American soil is very stupid. It was extremely provacative and foolish. Hell, international code considers it wrong during peacetime to do such a thing. It's free speech to have a foreign flag with you (it would have been more effective if the students had Mexican/US flag armbands or something instead to stage a protest against the house immigration bill or celebrate heritage). Though, I don't understand what the need is to carry around a flag in the first place. What they did may not have been illegal (and shouldn't be necessarily), but completely uncalled for. It also does not help the cause one bit. Most immigrants from any nation would not support such actions.

But burning the flag was also wrong and unecessary. There was nothing wrong with bringing the flag down (it shouldn't have been up in the first place), but burning it was taking it a step too far.

[judaspriestess]

137. waving the Mexican flag

its totally displaced. Its unfortunate what is happening. I am very proud of my Mexican heritage but I am American and I find it disheartening when the Mexican flag is waved over the American Flag.
They really ought to be waving BOTH flags to show they not only embrace their heritage but also LOVE this country and the opportunities it has given their families as well as ours.

I will say one thing in defense of the protestors, they are protesting PEACEFULLY from what I've seen, don't tell that to Lou Dobbs

[BoneDaddy]

144. Stupid move

Let me clarify:
1. They leave their country for a better one... I have no problem, my Irish ancestors did the same.
2. They burned an American flag. I have no problem as I believe in freedom of expression. I have been tempted to do the same.
3. They rose the Mexican flag above it. Again, I have no problem as i have an Irish flag next to my american flag.

That said, they just gave the right wing nuts fodder and ammunition andultimately behavior like this will rebound and work against their cause.. I also think that if you go to another country to live and have a better life then you, AT THE VERY LEAST, need to show respect for that country's symbols. I would never think of doing that if another country harbored me and took me in.

I also think they better higher a better decision maker as it was just a very impractical decision to make as it feeds the irrational fears of the xenophobes. Stupid stupid stupid.

[Hosnon]

146. Disrespectful on both sides. nt