Pentagon retaliates against GIs who spoke out on TV

[Rose Siding]

Fallujah, Iraq -- Morale is dipping pretty low among U.S. soldiers as they stew in Iraq's broiling heat, get shot at by an increasingly hostile population and get repeated orders to extend their tours of duty.

Ask any grunt standing guard on a 115-degree day what he or she thinks of the open-ended Iraq occupation, and you'll get an earful of colorful complaints.

But going public isn't always easy, as soldiers of the Army's Second Brigade, Third Infantry Division found out after "Good Morning America" aired their complaints.

snip>

The retaliation from Washington was swift.

CAREERS OVER FOR SOME
"It was the end of the world," said one officer Thursday. "It went all the way up to President Bush and back down again on top of us. At least six of us here will lose our careers."

First lesson for the troops, it seemed: Don't ever talk to the media "on the record" -- that is, with your name attached -- unless you're giving the sort of chin-forward, everything's-great message the Pentagon loves to hear.

snip>

After this one-two punch, it was perhaps natural that on Thursday, the same troops and officers who had been garrulous and outspoken in previous visits were quiet, and most declined to speak on the record. During a visit to Fallujah, a small city about 30 miles west of Baghdad, military officials expressed intense chagrin about the bad publicity.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2003/07/18/MN248299.DTL

[meisje]

I'm sure they care less as

long as they get to come home.

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

37. *

[Khephra]

This is totally disgusting

How low can this administration go?

Oh wait, I know that answer.

[meisje]

I'm sure they care less as

long as they get to come home.

[meisje]

I'm sure they care less as

long as they get to come home.

[saigon68]

1. THE MOTHER FUCKERS

UN--- FUCKING BELIEVABLE

This will help morale NOT

[meisje]

2. I'm sure they care less as

long as they get to come home.

[DeathvadeR]

25. Just like in Prison......

You just bite your lip and try and disapear for the last portion of your sentence.

[qb]

3. Well now... that should solve the morale problem.

On the other hand, they've hit on one way for a soldier to get the f*** out of Iraq.

[Sequoia]

What sort of discharge will they receive?

If it is Honarable I hope they sue. Screw those jerks, why don't they go over there and stand in the hot sun and get shot at instead of sitting on their fat cans in AC rooms worrying about crappy approval ratings. Sure, "bring 'em on". Yeah, we'll be bringing on impeachement proceedings before you know it (well, in a perfect world we would anyway).

[Rose Siding]

9. No one said they'd get a discharge

Just that their careers are over- as in no more advancement.

[Texican]

The Military Vote

Does anyone think that Bush will retain the military vote in 2004. That is if he allows elections. If he can appoint the government for Iraq, why not the US?

[Vitruvius]

41. The military may not vote for Bu$h*, but he'll DEFINITELY get their vote -

because they'll be voting electronically. On machines made by an off-shore company that's a spinoff of Anderson consulting: http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0718-05.htm . As most DUers know, Anderson was a crooked Rethug company that specialized in rigging the numbers -- as at Enron; now their spinoff will no doubt do the same for the '04 military vote.

[Sequoia]

What sort of discharge will they receive?

If it is not Honarable I hope they sue. Those jerks, why don't they go over there and stand in the hot sun and get shot at instead of sitting on their fat cans in AC rooms worrying about crappy approval ratings. Sure, "bring 'em on". Yeah, we'll be bringing on impeachement proceedings before you know it (well, in a perfect world we would anyway).

[Texican]

6. The Military Vote

Does anyone think that Bush will retain the military vote in 2004. That is if he allows elections. If he can appoint the government for Iraq, why not the US?

[Rose Siding]

8. He just plugged one hole that gets him bad PR

I hope those soldiers are as brave as they are said to be and WON'T be silenced.

[ElementaryPenguin]

Great! They'll all do the talk show circuit and write tell-all books!!

New York Times list best sellers, I hope!!!

[Patriot_Spear]

Bush* is a Monster

Anyone who isn't against this monster is not an American. Really.

This guy is beyond the pale- vermin through and through.

[CO Liberal]

Tell Every Veteran You Know About This

We need to turn the pro-military crowd against Crusader Bunnypants.

[Mari333]

No flag draped coffins, No media coverage of the Killing Fields

No soldiers allowed to complain..





May the BFEE Burn in Hell for this.

[Dhalgren]

29. And on top of it all

the low-down son of a bitch has the graceless audacity to strut around in a uniform and use these guys as a photo-op back-drop! Any military person who now supports this piece of trash administration has lost any and all respect, period! It's one thing to suck it up and support the orders given to you by legal authorities, but it is something else to stand there and get shit on and say, "thank you sir for your support! We will vote and pray for you!"

God!! This has made me about as mad as I've been in a while! SHIT!!

:mad:

:mad:

:mad:

[Guaranteed]

32. And they DID ask for prayers for Bush, too...absolutely UNBELIEVABLE n/t

[Bob3]

What the hell are they gonna do? Send them to Iraq?

Yep another day, another brown acid flashback.
:hippie:

[Mari333]

4. No flag draped coffins, No media coverage of the Killing Fields

No soldiers allowed to complain..





May the BFEE Burn in Hell for this.

[bemildred]

The whippings will continue until morale improves. nt

.

[sendero]

5. listen up soldiers....

.... this is the "freedom" you are fighting for. Ironic ain't it.

[Elidor]

7. Amazingly petty

I saw it coming, and I couldn't believe that these people could be so naive as to think there would not be repercussions, but damn. Clinton never pursued a vendetta against the military people who called him a rapist. Dubya is the thinnest-skinned person on earth. I hope the military and their families reconsider their traditional support for the GOP in the next election.

[searchingforlight]

10. There is a lot of pressure to conform

The ranks are closed and the information is filtered and slanted toward a pro-military machine atmosphere.

Did anyone here read Michael Moore's "Stupid White Men" about how the Bush Mafia used its influence to get the absentee ballots back to Florida? The vote can and will be controlled.

[LifeDuringWartime]

19. i read that book

its a good read, i recommend it.

[susanna]

28. That, Mr. Hardhead, is....

....no sh*t. Well said.

[ignatius]

11. I worried about this fallout when I read the comments

yesterday...particularly the young man who put Cheney, Bush,and Rumsfeld on his most wanted list.

This is the only way these thugs know how to manage or do anything..through intimidation and thuggery.

Disgusting excuses for human beings...may they all rot in a fiery hell, worse even than Iraq in the summer.

[shanti]

12. they are rejoicing that they will now go home!

n/t

[Jack Rabbit]

13. Support our troops

Note: I also posted this on the General's wife thread, but it seems just as appropriate here.

Okay, as a vet, I'm quite aware that one can be punished under the UCMJ for undermining the authority of the President of the United States or the Secretary of Defense.

However, unless one considers those offices vacant (an assertion for which one could make a good case), then one must certainly recognize that the current occupants of those offices are a couple of habitual liars who long ago forfeited their right to any respectability. Not only are they liars, they are thieves and mass murderers.

Bush and Rumsfeld and Cheney and all the rest of them lied to the nation and the world about Iraq's military capability and the urgency of launching the invasion. They lied when they said that the Iraqi people would strew roses in the path of the troops all the way from Basra to Baghdad. They lied to the troops themselves when they told them their duty in Iraq would be short.

They lied when they said this war was to liberate Iraqis and bring democracy to that nation. This war was fought to expropriate the wealth of Iraq's natural resources. They lie when they call a bunch of assembled quislings a national council and they lie when they say that all there is to Iraqi resistance is remnants of Saddam's loyalists. Occupation is not liberation; colonialism is not democracy.

For my part, I have no desire to be a subject of the PNAC empire and every desire to be a free man in a democratic state.

To that end, I support the natural right of all, including the troops, to speak out against this abomination and to call for contrition from the liars and thieves who sent them to from their homes to do their dirty work for them.

[joycep]

15. I am not a violent person

But I would like to see these bastards get what is coming to them. And it sure wouldn't be good. And they yell about supporting the troops. I sure support the troops more than they do any day of the week. I sure would not do to anyone what they are doing to American military people. I hope their lying tongues fall off.

[ParanoidPat]

23. The UCMJ only covered commissioned officers....

....until the DoD directive 1344.10 was issued!

TITLE: DoD Directive 1344.10, "Political Activities by Members of the Armed Forces on Active Duty", 06/15/1990

SUMMARY: This Directive reissues DoD Directive 1344.10, September 25, 1986, to update DoD policies on political activities of members of the Armed Forces on active duty. Implements Section 973(b) of Title 10, U.S.C.

FILES: Select a Format

SGML (48 KB) PDF (66 KB) ASCII (32 KB)

CHANGES:
Change 1, January 7, 1994
Change 2, February 17, 2000

[Jack Rabbit]

26. That is incorrect

When I was in the service, the UCMJ covered everybody. It still does.

That, by the way, predates your directive. I ETS'd in 1979.

Theoretically, any SM who criticized the President could have been sourt martialed. Of course, I knew many of all ranks who criticized President Carter who weren't touched.

[ParanoidPat]

35. UCMJ 888.88....

888. ART. 88. CONTEMPT TOWARD OFFICIALS

Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

Perhaps I phrased that wrong. :(

DoD directive 1344.10 extends the above to cover all servicemen.
Or did I miss something? :shrug:

[atreides1]

36. I Don't See The Relevance

Disparaging remarks made about civilian leaders, is not a political activity. A political activity is campaigning for a candidate while wearing your uniform. It gives the impression that the military supports the candidate.

A disparaging remark made against a civilian member of the government is not a political activity.

A military member on active duty can register, vote, and express his or her personal opinions on political candidates and issues, but not as a representative of the Armed Forces.

Active duty military personnel can not use their official authority
to influence or interfere with an election. They cannot be candidates
for office, cannot participate in partisan political management, campaigns, or CONVENTIONS. They cannot make contributions to another
member of the Armed Foreces or an employee of the Federal Government.

So as long as these troops don't violate these rules, they can say that Rumsfeld is a coward, and that Bush is a deserter. And guess what
no charges can be filed against them.

[midnitemoleman]

14. Laughing Satan Spreads His Wing's

He has the troops devided, today the Republicans called the police
on the Democrats in Congress. The #2 best seller in America is by Ann Coulter who said and I quote: "All Democrats are trators and should be rounded up and shot in the head in public, for the world to see what happen's to trators in America". Cheney has presided over strangleing the country's energy/oil needs to bring the country to it's knee's. Our leader Bush has best friends like Kenny "Boy" Ley who stole the retierment funds of thousands. Not to mention the paid rioters to take the election. Yes I would say Satan is a very happy Angel right now. But we all also know good always beats evil in the end.

[damnraddem]

16. There go the careers.

Now let's see if there are any troops who say: 'screw a military career, screw the Pentagon, here's what going on and the American people should know.'

[atreides1]

17. Let's Look At The Facts

1. It looks as though only the officers are being relieved, this is the same thing that occured in Vietnam when some units refused to go
into combat. Nothing was done to the troops, just the officers were
punished.

2. Article 88 of the Manuals of Court Martial only applies to commisioned officers, not enlisted personnel.

So if the troops are afraid it's because once again their chain of command is lying to them, as it has been during this entire war.
That means that the officer corps is now corrupted, and that the officers can no longer be trusted to do what is right for their troops. So don't be surprised if sometime soon the fragging starts.
I know I won't !!!

[saigon68]

18. THE FRAGGING HAS ALREADY STARTED

I'm sure alot of parents are going to rush down to sign their sons up too!!!!

IE:

You can be the first one on your block

To have your boy come home in a box

(with apologies to Country Joe)

[0007]

20. Is junior getting even?

I thought the Army was a little smarter than they were when I was in, 53 years ago.

I see they haven't changed one fucking bit.

[saigon68]

21. YOU bet he's gettting even

The troops see this BULLSHIT and like so many they will leave in droves.

Kind of like that last couple of years in the Nam when no one wanted to be the last one killed for WHAT? Still trying to figure out WHAT?

Except here its simple. HALIBURTON EXXON and all the rest of the Mother Fucking corporations and the rich bastards who run them.

[snippy]

22. How very republican.

Bush is such a vindictive little fuck.

[goforit]

24. Now that is patriotism!!!!

You go guys!!!

[yellowdog]

27. You know, I don't remember this happening

when members of the military trashed Bill Clinton. Of course, Clinton was man enough to deal with it, unlike Smirky.

[are_we_united_yet]

30. Dubya the great uniter.

[renegade000]

31. "they may take our jobs away..."

"but they'll never take OUR FRREEEEEDDDDOOOMMMM!!!!!!!!"

:bounce::bounce::bounce:

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[R Hickey]

34. If their daddy was Poppy Bush they'd be home by now.

Dubya deserted service for over a year, squandering his flight school training and shirking his prestigous jet piloting gig, while real servicemen, like John McCain, rotted for years in the Hanoi Hilton.

What do soldiers in Iraq think of deserters like Dubya? Do they notice the irony of being deserted this second time by Dubya?

[lebkuchen]

38. Retaliation is expected behavior from the ignorant WH boobs

Their only tools are fear and intimidation.

It will backfire on them when it comes to the US military, however. WH thuggery only exposes the Bushies for the incompetent fools they are.

[Best_man23]

39. To paraphrase the grunts who fought in Vietnam

I can see soldiers today saying "I'm going to continue to bitch, what the f*** are they going to do, send me to Iraq?"

[ward919]

40. Same tactics Saddam used are being used by this administration

since its inception. All dissent is illegal, immoral, and unpatriotic...even if your life is on the line.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[primavera]

43. Next stop - Gitmo

Given the standards of "justice" which prevail here in the Fourth Reich, I'm frankly a little surprised they haven't all been declared enemy combatants and shipped off to our concentration camp, never to be heard from again. After all, everyone knows that you must be an al Qaeda operative to disagree with the administration. Hell, even Tony Blair knows that.

[okieinpain]

44. what's really going to freak the repugs out is that this will just

make the soldiers speak out more and more and more. and as more soldiers die the dis-respect to superiors will increase also.