Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

DNA Matches "Fatal Vision" Convict's Hair

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU
 
LiberalHeart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 09:36 PM
Original message
DNA Matches "Fatal Vision" Convict's Hair
The hair of a former Army doctor convicted in the slayings of his wife and two daughters was found clutched in his dead wife's hand, according to long-awaited results of DNA testing made public Friday. Testing of another hair found under the fingernail of Jeffrey MacDonald's youngest daughter showed that it came from an unidentified person, a find that MacDonald's supporters say bolsters his case.

Much more here (including other links to info on the crime):
http://www.wtol.com/Global/story.asp?S=4616668
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
NaturalHigh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
1. I've followed this case for a long time.
Frankly, I think he's guilty as hell, but some of the government's tactics were pretty underhanded.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LiberalHeart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I've followed it too -- but I am not so sure he's guilty...
Jack Anderson did a lot of reporting on the Helena angle to the story and I thought there was enough there to make me question MacDonald's guilt. The "Fatal Vision" book and movie certainly put a guilty slant on Jeffrey, but the movie was based on the book, and their was a big stink raised about the author's handling of the the story. I think there are a lot of question left to be answered.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NaturalHigh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I agree that we don't know the whole story...
and the book was definitely slanted. Still I think he's guilty.

Another book called "Fatal Justice" came out a few years ago, and it did nothing to convince me of MacDonald's innocence. It did, however, uncover a lot about the way the whole story was portrayed in "Fatal Vision."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. The Journalist & The Murderer by Janet Malcomb, 1990.
Discusses the author's handling of the book.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LiberalHeart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Ah, yes. I remember that -- fascinating. (EOM)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 02:42 AM
Response to Reply #2
18. I don't think he is guilty
Never have.

He got screwed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Darth_Kitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #18
27. He's guilty as hell.
:(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Then how do you explain the DNA they found?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Darth_Kitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. It's his story and the physical evidence.....
with the blood patterns, the pyjama top, etc that say to me he's guilty.

Plus his self-inflicted wound(s) were a nice touch that didn't exactly help his case.

His story never added up.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. So where did that hair come from?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Darth_Kitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. maybe the kids picked it up in the neighbourhood?
the younger daughter apparently loved exploring her neighbourhood.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
roseBudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #30
37. 1 hair from an unknown person is just trace
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KayLaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #29
34. Self-inflicted wounds?
Can you prove that? There is no reason to believe his wounds were self-inflicted. He deserves a new trial.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Darth_Kitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #34
41. I'm not a lawyer so why would I have to prove it?
;)

But, he was a doctor he knew where to cut himself. His wounds were apparently self-inflicted and he always embellished how "hurt" he really was.
He deserves squat, he's a cold-blooded triple murderer.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KayLaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. He could have died
We all deserve a fair trial.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Darth_Kitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. Oh, please, no
He got his fair trial, the Stevenson family deserve some peace now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Darth_Kitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. A link to some images (WARNING)
http://www.thejeffreymacdonaldcase.com/html/autopsy_pho...

This shows some pictures of MacDonald's wounds. Sorry there are also some disturbing autopsy photos underneath.

***WARNING!!!!*******
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shrike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-12-06 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #46
61. So those are Jeff's "wounds"?
I have a strong stomach, so I looked at the autopsy photos. Sorry, I find his story hard to believe.
And one more thing: "Acid is Groovy"?? Who the hell says that?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HardWorkingDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-12-06 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #18
66. Some more things.......
For one thing, if I recall correctly, they just found blood footprints in the house - no blood SHOE-prints (there is a difference between the two).

Also, there was the issue of the overturned table from the "struggle". Numerous attempts to recreate the scene were made to attempt to get the same image as found in the photograph - each time the table was tipped, the items on it and around it never resembled what was found at the original scene.

There were also other issues involving blood at the scene but right now I can't recall what they were, but they all pointed to MacDonald as the killer.

Lastly, as I've typed in other postings here, the family lived in public government housing - so hair and fiber evidence might be a moot point unless certain things are present.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Darth_Kitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #2
26. The blood patterns and physical evidence....
suggests he's guilty as hell imo.

"Acid is groovy, kill the pigs?" The guy is a heartless sociopath. :(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OldLeftieLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #26
38. "Acid is groovy, kill the pigs,"
was exactly the kind of crap line some straight arrow (back then) would have thought was how hippies talked. He got it wrong. So wrong.

He did it. The self-inflicted wounds were proven beyond question. His story was unbelievable from the start. He ran into bad luck when his wife's stepfather turned out to be a really great, loving man who wouldn't let the unanswered questions stay unanswered.

He had no defense, ever.

Now, this DNA evidence will, I hope, shut him the hell up forever. He's eligible for parole, but he refuses to accept it because it would be tantamount to saying he did it. He won't admit that, so he stays in the slammer. How controlling a sociopath is he to give up a chance for freedom in exchange for maintaining his lie?

He's married again, and will someone PLEASE explain to me what's going on with these women who marry lifers?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shrike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-12-06 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #38
65. No sh*t
That was the first thing that came to my mind: Who the hell talks like that?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CheshireCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #38
73. "Acid is groovy, kill the pigs," - OH, Please!
When I heard that McDonald said that crazed hippies on drugs said ""Acid is groovy, kill the pigs", I knew he made it up. I was a hippie at that time and no one I knew would EVER say something that stupid and cliche.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
caledesi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. Same here. Read the book about 3 times. Saw movie at least
twice. He's guilty, but I agree, tactics were strange.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wakeme2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
3. BS news title....
Edited on Fri Mar-10-06 09:52 PM by wakeme2008
from his site

The most rewarding preliminary news, based on the lab's report, is that of the limited number of exhibits tested (fifteen in total) three have been found to be "unsourced"- and of those three, one was found in a strategic, exculpatory location- under the fingernail of little Kristen. Another was found on the body of Colette, and a third on Kristen's bedding.

The most exculpatory exhibit is the unsourced hair under Kristen's nail, since the only reasonable explanation is that it got there when she defended herself against an unknown attacker.

Several exhibits were found to belong to family members, and several yielded "inconclusive" results which our experts, including Barry Scheck, will be consulting on. As Mr. Scheck has previously commented, the DNA results are another layer that the defense will add to its evidence of (Jeff's) innocence.



Mmm. they forgot to say not only his DNA was found but OTHER family members.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HardWorkingDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 01:53 AM
Response to Reply #3
16. Here are some things to think of......
many times hairs and fibers mean little. For example, do not forget, they lived in government housing - hairs from previous tenants could have been present still.

Also, another thing to ask about is exactly how is a hair or fiber found on a body and what does it mean for a hair be under a fingernail?

What I find very disappointing in Barry Scheck and his BS is how he really is tainting a wonderful organization by muddying waters in criminal cases when there is nothing more present than just the way things are - for example, finding contamination in blood because it simply comes into contact with the ground and then leading a jury to believe that the contamination is because of some sort of conspiracy.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LiberalHeart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #16
23. But Scheck has also helped free innocent people ...
I admire his work, and I know your calling his operation "a wonderful organization" means you do, too -- so I'm not arguing with you. Just thinking about how horrible it would be to be locked up, deemed guilty of some crime you didn't do, and have to fight for DNA testing. I don't get why DNA testing isn't being done automatically on all cases that didn't have benefit of that at the time of the conviction. It also gripes me how long it takes for what testing there is to take place. I know the powers that be would say it's expensive, there's not enough manpower, etc. And prosecutors would say let sleeping dogs lie. But if they were the ones deprived of their freedom, I think that tone would change considerably.

I know there's some movement toward testing in death-penalty cases, but that doesn't address those locked up for, say, rape. I think the imprisonment, even execution, of innocent people is just one more of this country's dirty little not-so-secret secrets.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HardWorkingDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #23
36. Sadly,
I sincerely believe a lot of the resistance on the sort of DNA testing you described is based on the mindset of, "well, if he didn't do this one, he did some other one."

As for Scheck and his partner Neufield, the work they did for OJ Simpson was just terrible. Don't get me wrong - if there is faulty DNA evidence, then is should be pointed out, but they amplified every day normal issues of contamination as if they were some sort of grand conspiracy. For example, when they spoke of EDTA (used as a blood preservative) found in Simpson's blood at the crime scene, they led the jury to believe that the only way EDTA gets into blood is from the vials blood used to be stored in. What they didn't mention was that almost everybody has levels of EDTA in their blood from what we eat and work around. Also, they showed a graphic depicting the presence of the EDTA in the crime scene blood and of blood from an actual vial of preserved blood and while both looked the same, they didn't make clear that the Simpson blood graph had been multiplied a large number of times to make it look similar to that of blood from a vial of preserved blood.

That's why I hate to see Scheck even touch this case - from following this case for years, to me, it is clear MacDonald is guilty. Though I would imagine they are just doing so to get publicity for the organization so they can continue to do it's truly good work.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-12-06 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #36
60. I think the work is crucial
We've somehow turned DNA into a magical substance, capable of sketching out narratives without any additional support. If Scheck's work enables us to be more suspicious of DNA and the process by which it is collected, or the "theories of the crime" developed, then it is worthwhile. This doesn't mean suspicious to the point of cynicism, of course, but healthy suspicion. That said, this Macdonald cat is guilty as all git out, but still.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MuseRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 10:07 PM
Response to Original message
5. Wow, this has taken a long time.
I remember when it happened. I read the book and watched the mini series. It was my first viewing of Gary Cole, otherwise I doubt I would remember the TV version.

Interesting.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pretzel4gore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
7. he tried to blame 'hippies' and a black guy....
the factjeff macdonald was a milk fed ninny (his father in law was the true hero of the story) and could get away blaming 'hippies' just says everything there is about the 1970 murder case.....macdonald's father in law was his biggest backer until the psycho (imagine, him killing those sweet little girls, the FATHER!) story developed big holes, and what was obvious from the word go became too clear....macdonald even tried to enlist the writer joe mcginness (fatal vision) in his scheme to define his innocence but before the book came out mcginness concluded macdonald in fact did the crime...but when someone is as clear eyed, as intelligent and clean, educated and so on as doctor jeffrey macdonald, there was always just a tiny possiblity that, omg, maybe there was a 'hippie like' woman with a floppy hat and 3 guys...maybe macdonald was just a shallow person, maybe that explained his benign indifference to his family's murder? After all, Lee Harvey Oswald was innocent of the JFK murder, and yet look at what the media has done with that!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wakeme2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Two books trash the way Joey did his book
Mmmmm....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
norml Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 03:46 AM
Response to Reply #7
20. "acid is groovy"
Web Results 1 - 10 of about 715 for "acid is groovy". (0.08 seconds)

Trivia for Acid Is Groovy Kill the Pigs (1993)Acid Is Groovy Kill the Pigs - Cast, Crew, Reviews, Plot Summary, Comments, Discussion, Taglines, Trailers, Posters, Photos, Showtimes, Link to Official ...
www.imdb.com/title/tt0337807/trivia - 23k - Cached - Similar pages


FLEX discography: Joe Christ & Bigger Than God - acid is groovy ...acid is groovy - kill the pigs 7" reliable records. 003 / 4 tracks / 1990 (?) Feat. Chris Spedding (!) on guitar on two tracks. ...
www.fuzzlogic.com/flex/j/876.php - 22k - Cached - Similar pages


NUM Factory Music Reviewse.BOLA: Acid Is Groovy. Kill, Baby Kill; Another Bad Day; Shutdown; Whore; Kill, Baby Kill (mindflux murder mix); Acid is Groovy (live); Down ...
www.sonic-boom.com/review/e.bola-1.html - 3k - Cached - Similar pages


Jeffrey MacDonald... you know, Acid is groovy. Kill the pigs. And I started to struggle up and I noticed three men now, and I think the girl was kind of behind them. ...
www.statementanalysis.com/macdonald/ - 30k - Cached - Similar pages


Jeffrey MacDonald - The Crime"Acid is groovy, kill the pigs." Prior to the MPs arriving, MacDonald stated he awoke from the attack on the floor, partially on a step from the living ...
www.karisable.com/mac1.htm - 25k - Cached - Similar pages


Brace-Face: Jessica Is Groovy, Kill The PigsThe point is, y'all need to Netflix this movie right this minute or Jessica will break into your house screaming, "Acid is groovy, kill the cows, ...
braceface.typepad.com/braceface/ 2006/01/_yeah_these_pic.html - 30k - Cached - Similar pages


JOE CHRIST Movies & Musiccrimes, while chanting, "Acid is groovy. . . kill the pigs". Since this was right after Charles Manson & his associates had been ...
www.geocities.com/joechrist.geo/jcmovies.html - 25k - Cached - Similar pages


Ken Freedman's PlaylistMay 3, 2000: Acid is Groovy The Accuplaylist displays the song information while the ... "Acid is Groovy, Kill The Pigs" STEVE DIRKX (The Butchers Covers) ...
www.wfmu.org/Playlists/Ken/ken.20000503.html - 9k - Cached - Similar pages


KOVOROX NEWSACID IS GROOVY KILL THE PIGS - Eerie dirge trio creating ominous and unsettled atmospheres. Could soundtrack your funeral! ROMANCE - One-man harsh, ...
www.kovoroxsound.com/KOVOROXNEWS.htm - 25k - Cached - Similar pages


Unrated Magazine - Cinema of the extreme: Film review of They Die NextACID IS GROOVY KILL THE PIGS was based on a real-life murder case, which occurred in 1970, involving the alleged slaughter of a former Army Green Berets ...
www.unrated.co.uk/reviews/review_72.htm - 12k - Cached - Similar pages


http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22acid+is+groovy%...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
la la Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
10. I've watched it
from the very beginning, as well- though the news( he was an emergency room dr at a hospital very near my home), the books, the tv shows - and I still believe he's innocent.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BillZBubb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
11. He's as innocent as OJ
Those darn Hippies! I'll bet he won't stop looking until he finds the "real" killers.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LA lady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 12:15 AM
Response to Original message
13. Bragg
We were stationed at Fort Bragg 20 years ago and I used to drive by the McDonald's quarters all the time. I think they finally released them to be renovated and reoccupied.

I am glad I wasn't on that jury cause I just don't know what I would do and I have read everything I could get my hands on. He could have been released years ago if he would confess and he refuses. That makes you think he is innocent.
I think his smart ass attitude back at the time of the crime is one thing that hurt him. He was such a jerk on the Dick Cavett show. I remember watching it and thinking that he was guilty.

So sad, two precious little girls, their Mom and unborn son. We will probably never know.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemInDistress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. mom and 2 baby girls savagely stabbed and he gets a pin
prick of a stab wound...sorry jeff, but your guilty as hell in my eyes . Why would the killers allow him to live? If these killers were hell bent on savagery why not cut this guys throat? or viciously stab him to death maybe cut his balls off? I saw that PINPRICK of a stab wound. hope he rots to death in prison.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LA lady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Terrible
Did you ever read the transcript of his hypnosis? That sort of freaked me out. I have no idea how accurate it was.

Helena Stokely was so messed up that we will never know what she really remembered and what was just drug induced.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemInDistress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 02:43 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. What ticks me off is that pathetic wound to old jeff..
compared to the butchery of his wife and 2 darling little girls he had a PINPRICK of a stab wound and while he was apparently unconcious. If I were a lunatic killer who just savagely killed 3 people I'd do jeff just as badly maybe even cut his dick off and put it in his mouth so the cops could figure out what kind of nutjob is on the loose.
Plus, he told investigators of the military trial one version and when freddie the pop of the wife read the transcripts he smelled a rat. that rat was jeff. he got what he deserved, LIFE IN PRISON..WITH NO PAROLE.
Hope jeff has a computer and reads this.
He thought a manson redux would throw off freddie and cid investigators and the d.a. go jeff, mop those floors..I saw him moping floors in a cable news show once..
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KayLaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 05:59 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. Pin prick?
Are you sure about that? You remind me of certain people who dismiss the torture and murder done at Abu Grahib as fraternity stunts. I'm including a link that describes his injuries, including one that collapsed his lung. I would allow you to prick me with a pin in order to prove a point. Would you allow me to stab you and inflict the other injuries suffered by MacDonald?

Why would a man be able to fend on attackers when a woman and little girls couldn't? Seems pretty obvious to me. Why would the attackers stop and flee before everyone was dead? How about the ringing phone. (Records prove the phone rang.

The idea of a woman in a floppy hat wearing a blond wig sound phony? Well, I guess the first policeman who showed up on the scene must have been hallucinating when he saw her outside the house. What about the the long blond wig fiber found inside the house? The prosecutors dismissed it as a doll hair? Know what Mattel had to say about that?

http://www.themacdonaldcase.org/Case_Facts.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemInDistress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-12-06 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #21
51. compared to the savagery and butchery of the wife
and two darling girls old jeff's wound was a PINPRICK. He stabbed himself in hopes of throwing off the cops.
If you accept his claim he was unconscious and the killers merely stabbed him once,well you should have been on his jury. For me and I seen many an investigative report clearly displays to me jeff killed (butchered) his family in hopes of making a new life. I prefer life without parole for killers because it hurts more. Everyday he can dwell on what he did and pay the piper whereas had he been executed his pain would be over..
Floppy hat, lol.. what was he thinking? another thing, why the lies? had freddie not received the transcripts which showed discrepancies and lies old jeff would have gotten away with murder..sorry to disagree with you but my verdict is solid...adios jeff, you should have just divorced her paid alimony and child support and start that new life..but no jeff, brutal savage murder and a pinprick for himself..give me a break..
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LiberalHeart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #15
31. Do you have a link for that transcript? (EOM)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LA lady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #31
45. I was looking
I can't find one and I am trying to remember where I read it. Oddly enough, I think it was in Fatal Vision! Seems like it was right near the end and McGinnis just kind of threw it in there.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LiberalHeart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-12-06 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #45
55. That sounds familiar....
But I may be confusing that memory with what I read about Dr. Sam Sheppard (sp?) and his truth serum experience.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OldLeftieLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #15
39. That poor woman
She was just a pawn they tried to use. Her brain was fried beyond redemption.

She wasn't capable of fixing her own lunch, and that sort of person is always susceptible to whatever you tell them. She had no reality, since, again, her brain was fried.

Then she died, right?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #14
68. Thank you, thank you.
I've read the book and seen the miniseries and I say he's guilty as Cain.

As you said, these (fictitious) killers brutally murder a pregnant woman and two little preschool children, and leave an adult male with minor wounds? Give me a break!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LiberalHeart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #13
24. About his "smart ass" attitude...
I know that can turn off the people watching him, but I also think that sort of self-presentation can be expected from certain types of innocent people. I would guess there'd be a high degree of anger at being hounded -- then convicted -- of such a horrible crime. And if one knows he's innocent, I think that anger and disdain could be the first thing you'd notice about the person. Dealing with the loss ofloved ones, if he's innocent, would have been over long before the interviews -- and then the emotions shift to personal survival and justice. If I were in a position where I was accused or convicted of something I didn't do, I think I'd come across as cold, haughty, and furious. None of that would work in my favor, but I know how out of control I get in the face of injustice. If it were directed toward me, I imagine my response would be off the scale.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mr. Peanut Donating Member (85 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 01:54 AM
Response to Original message
17. If indeed there were an unidentified person's hair ...
found beneath the daughter's fingernail, there could be an explanation. Wasn't Jeff MacDonald selling speed and other drugs to assorted druggies who allegedly were in the house that night? MacDonald definitely did it, just like Scott Peterson, who tried to blame Laci's death on Satan worshippers, did it. MacDonald was a self-serving egomaniac who was amped up on God-knows-what. He was a damn doctor, for heavens' sake, so he could have been dropping or injecting any number of conscience-erasing drugs that night. They called him "The Rock" in the ER because he was so calm and cool in an emergency. He was cool enough to pull off that debacle, and, drugged up, he was a formidable killing machine.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KayLaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 07:46 AM
Response to Reply #17
22. Like what?
How did the hair of a stranger get lodged under the finger of a sleeping child?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LiberalHeart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #22
32. Right, and the hair on Colette...
...could have been picked up simply from living with him. We don't know that it was a long-ish hair or just a short one that could get there if a wife simple ran her hand over her hubby's military haircut.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bleedingheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-12-06 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #22
57. depending upon the size of the hair...
it could have come from a classmate at school....children don't wash their hands as well as we would like to think...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Darth_Kitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
25. He's guilty......
http://www.thejeffreymacdonaldcase.com /

An interesting site to visit.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mandate My Ass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #25
35. A raging narcissist on speed
He always came off as guilty as hell. I read everything that has ever come out about this case and all I can say is that is one guilty and extremely viscious, woman-hating MFer.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OldLeftieLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. Remember the guy in Boston
who killed his very pregnant wife and said that "black guys" had attacked them?

And the mother in North(?) Carolina who sank her car with her two sons in it? She said a "black guy" did that, too.

Seems like the only innocent black guy out there is O.J.

ahem............
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #40
49. LOL!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gormy Cuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #40
50. At least Charles Stuart was good enough to pronounce the death sentence
on himself once it was clear that his story wasn't fooling the cops (the Boston case.) He jumped off the Tobin Bridge a couple of months later in a made-for-Hollywood ending to the whole sorry ordeal.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #40
69. South Carolina. Susan Smith. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KayLaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #35
42. You did?
Did you read Fatal Justice? I believe every American deserves a fair trial in which all available is presented to the jury rather than obscured by the government. Am I one of the very few who post here who feel that way? Do you all trust the goverment without hesitation?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
47. If hair found on the victim must belongs to a killer,
Edited on Sat Mar-11-06 07:22 PM by lizzy
then Mr. MacDonald must be a killer because his hair was found in his wife's hands. Obviously, hair on a dead body does not necessarily belong to a killer. Mr. MacDonald is out of luck.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KayLaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-12-06 05:23 AM
Response to Reply #47
53. What?
A stranger's hair WAS found on his wife and another under the fingernail of his daughter!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-12-06 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #53
58. Read it again. His own hair was found on his wife.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HardWorkingDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-12-06 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #58
64. Which actually could mean very little...
Listen folks,

This family lived in military housing and probably did their laundry in other commonly used machines. All sorts of things could explain hairs and fibers being present. Also, think of all the people around this incident - the cops, medical people, et cetera. Some cop or medical person could have dropped a hair.

And exactly what is known about the hair under the fingernail of the daughter? With out a photo, what does it look like?

About the only thing that would really be important would be if a clump of hair torn out by the roots was found wrapped around a person's fingers.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
48. Sigh, he had me fooled
he lived in my area during the time he was out of the slam for awhile (local newspaper was always having stories about him) and I believed his bull shit. :-(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KayLaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-12-06 05:22 AM
Response to Reply #48
52. What changed your mind?
The hair under his daughter's fingernail belonged to a stranger, not MacDonald.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LiberalHeart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-12-06 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #52
54. Selecting some evidence, discarding other...
Here we have two pieces of evidence (the hair under Colette's fingernail and the hair under the child's fingernail). One supports MacDonald as killer, perhaps. The other supports someone else as the child's killer, perhaps. But in fact neither tells us who did the murders. Still, if I had to choose just one to consider significant, I'd go with the hair under the child's name.

Colette was on the floor when stabbed, apparently. She could have been trying to scoot away, using her hands for leverage -- in the process picking up hair on the floor, particularly if she was clawing at a rug/carpet. As a resident of the home, MacDonald would have been dropping hair and dead skin cells ever day. The same goes if Colette was attacked in the bed. If she struggled, grabbing a pillow, blanket, the sheets, she could have picked up MacDonald's hair. So many innocent (for MacDonald) ways to account for the hair. I think I'd be more impressed by this hair evidence if we knew if the folicle (I think I'm spelling that way wrong) was intact (indicating it was pulled out) and whether any of MacDonald's skin cells were also found under her nails indicated she scratched him.

The "foreign" hair under the child's nail makes me think of the unidentified DNA found in JonBenet Ramsey's panties. Also on her thigh, I think. Many dismiss that as insignificant (I don't), and hold fast to their view that John or Patsy killed their daughter. But had the DNA of either parent shown up in the panties, I suspect those same people would have considered it proof s/he killed JonBenet.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-12-06 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #54
59. LOL. Isn't that exactly what you are doing?
So, his hair got on his wife from a carpet, while somebody else's hair came from a killer? How about the other way around?
As for JonBenet, that DNA probably came from some chinese factory worker sawing those panties. They were not washed. Police sure was never able to match it to anyone.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LiberalHeart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-12-06 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #59
62. Of course that's what I'm doing...
That was my point. I think we all bring our own DNA to these issues. I truly do think people are born with inclinations to see things one way or another -- it shapes their responses to things like this, and to politics. But in this ase, I'm not taking a side because I can see the weight of the evidence against MacDonald, but I can also see ways to poke holes in at least some of it. And as I said up thread, Anderson's reporting on the case gave me pause. It was the first thing that made me get some nagging doubts.

As for the panties in the JBR case: if it was a Chinese factory worker's DNA, that would be an interesting turn of events. The DNA showed the likely heritage of the owner, and it was not Chinese. And don't forget: the DNA was mixed with JBR's blood.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ellie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-12-06 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
56. As an aside,
my uncle was stationed at Fort Bragg at this time and because of this case, retired early. He wanted to stay in to get his commission, but his CO was consumed with this case and my uncle ended up being a glorified secretary to him. It pissed him off and he retired as a lt. colonel instead of as a colonel.

He never did tell me if he thought McDonald did it. He died 10 years ago.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Stevepol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-12-06 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
63. It's hard for me to understand how people find him guilty so easily.
I read the "Fatal Justice" book and there was a lot of evidence, some of it admittedly anecdotal, but combined with everything else, I think the evidence strongly suggests he's innocent.

Two points: people often claim that he's a "sociopath" because he's so devilish in hsi defense of a crime they assume he committed. I think a sociopath doesn't become one overnight. From what I have read, he was a quite successful doctor who showed no sociopathic tendencies before the murder. Why would he suddenly become a sociopath? He was carrying on an affair at the time I think, and that perhaps turned his wife's family against him, but I don't think that shows sociopathic behavior necessarily.

Also why would he identify the woman as being in the place and she admit to being there and yet that evidence dropped? Evidently the only personal witnesses to corroborate his testimony is drug addicts (which fits his story) and these people's testimony can't be trusted.

I'm not an expert on this case by any means but it doesn't make sense to me that he did it. People don't suddenly become sociopathic killers overnight after being model citizens and successful physicians, then afterwards suddenly become model citizens and model inmates again. Am I missing something? I don't know his bio so maybe somebody can clue me in. do people just have an innate desire to see others punished whether they committed the crime or not?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #63
72. Sometimes people have just about everybody fooled.
People don't suddenly become sociopathic killers overnight after being model citizens and successful physicians, then afterwards suddenly become model citizens and model inmates again."

Well, he mayve been perceived as a model citizen. Ted Bundy, for a long time, had everyone fooled, even Ann Rule, who had worked as a policewoman and was a true crime writer even in those days.

Another example:

The Brown's Chicken massacre was the popular name for a mass murder which occurred at a Brown's Chicken restaurant in Palatine, Illinois, a suburb of ChicagoOn January 8, 1993, seven people were slain at the Brown's Chicken and Pasta

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown\'s_Chicken_massacre



There were two perps. One of them had a police record, the other didnt --no previous offenses and nothing afterward either.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
XanaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-12-06 02:55 PM
Response to Original message
67. I've read about everything on this case
Edited on Sun Mar-12-06 03:00 PM by XanaDUer
My 0.02:

1. He did it, but the tactics of the prosecution were dodgey.

2. He is a raging narcissist.

3. Fatal Justice was a crappy book. Did not convince me of anything like his innocence.

4. He probably should get a new trial based on the way the prosecution acted, but I still think he is guilty.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
noonwitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #67
70. I agree that if the prosecution broke the law, he should get a new trial
I also think that he's guilty, too. But our criminal justice system is in principal supposed to be fair and honest, and when a cop or prosecutor goes beyond the law, then that has to be addressed.

If he's retried, could he face the death penalty at this point in time?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LiberalHeart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
71. Larry King's show will discuss the test results tonight (Tuesday)
Just saw a promo. Don't know who the guests will be.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Nov 21st 2014, 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC