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sinkingfeeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 10:03 AM
Original message
Arson suspects were stars at school .
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-03-10-arson-su...

<snip> At Birmingham-Southern College here, where Moseley and DeBusk were students known for their acting talent, the talk Thursday was about what might have been for the two well-liked young men.

Martin Landry, 20, a junior, said he has known Moseley and DeBusk for nearly two years and both were "quite popular. Everybody loved being around them. They were a little wild, a little crazy, but absolutely nothing to suggest the caliber to support what's being reported. They were typical college students. They did like a drink. They enjoyed a good time. But there was no out-of-control aspect to it."
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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
1. aside from the fact that they were full-blown batsh*t-crazy arsonists who
didn't give a godd*mn about their futures.

freakin' nutjobs.
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Binka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. They Are Privileged White Narcissistic Assholes
They were well liked because their families had lots of money. Can you think of another rich asshole people have been saying is popular for the last 5+ years?
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Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #2
16. Hmmm ...
:think:

It rhymes with "Tush," right?
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tenshi816 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #2
17. I knew so many guys like that
Edited on Fri Mar-10-06 11:40 AM by tenshi816
in high school and college. The year after I got out of high school, a local "fortunate son" got mad about flunking several classes and set fire to the school one weekend night in the wee small hours. It was generally laughed off and I never heard about anything happening to him.

Another time, in my senior year in high school, a "well-liked" rich kid came to school tripping on acid one day with a loaded handgun. He crawled under our American History teacher's desk (because he had a bone to pick with her about something or other) and dared her to come in and take the gun away from him. He didn't even get suspended for doing it because his daddy stepped in and the entire incident just got dropped.

Money = popularity way too much for my liking.

Hey Binka!!! How's it going? :hi:

Edited to add that I was in the room when the student-with-a-handgun incident occurred. I can see it in my head even now - a truly, truly frightening experience even if it's not directed at you directly, just because of being in close proximity of an upset person who has a loaded gun.
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Binka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. It Is Everywhere!
The entire Admin is rife with it. That is why we are so exhausted these people are draining and so fucking tedious.
:hi: Things are chugging along. I am waiting to hear from Ben. The second funeral in AZ is this weekend. He is a mess.
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tenshi816 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Oh Binka,
I'm so sorry to hear about the friends Ben has lost. I think of all the people I knew back in the day who had fathers, uncles and older brothers who went to Vietnam; of the ones who made it back, several of them suffered emotionally because of the misplaced guilt they felt because they came out of it alive and their brothers in arms didn't.

Is Ben receiving counselling?

I've got you guys in my thoughts and prayers.
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Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
3. In prison, they can be stars as well
As another southerner so aptly put it, these boys can be a "hunka hunka burning love" on cell block "C". No sympathy here.
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meganmonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 10:22 AM
Response to Original message
4. What's with the Satanic Christian stuff??
from the article:

Burgess said DeBusk told him last summer that he had found a new religious interest.

"He wasn't raised as a Christian, and he had never found any kind of religion to settle down with," Burgess said. "He thought he'd found something that worked for him. It's not worshipping the devil. It's nothing ritualistic. It's about the pursuit of knowledge. He explained to me that there can be Satanic Christians. It gave him the peacefulness and serenity of Buddhism. It was a real peaceful thing."

Burgess said DeBusk invited him on a "demon-hunting" trip last summer.

"Nothing happened," Burgess said. "Some friends of ours and the two of us were in the middle of the woods, playing guitar. They had some beer. There were no rituals, no weird sance.

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rkc3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. "Pursuit of Knowledge" - we all know how dangerous that can be.
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atommom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #4
12. Was it the "peacefulness and serenity of Buddhism" that led them
to torch those churches? :wtf:
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tenshi816 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #12
19. Oh boy, I can just hear
the fundies now, blaming it on this boy's dabbling in something non-Christian.

It sounds like a pat excuse to me, a deliberate attempt to say he was "led astray" from the path of true Christianity. It'll be interesting to see if this works its way into his defense.
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atommom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #19
30. I'd be really surprised if wasn't brought up.
He was led astray by false religion, and you know that wouldn't have happened without the influence of libruls... :sarcasm:
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alarcojon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #12
27. Really
How dare these fucks try to drag Buddhism into their pit of slime?
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harrison Donating Member (916 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
5. Severe Narcissism explains it all. Bet these guys were
brought up to think that they were "special" and "entitled". I am seeing this shit more and more.
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Binka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. I Posted The Same Up Thread. It's A Rampant Mental Disorder.
Wealthy white males coddled and spoiled for 20 years makes a nice smoldering pile of narcissistic shit.
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alarcojon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #9
29. At least the school seems to see the problem
"These cruel and senseless acts of destruction have profoundly touched our college community. Where there once existed such a clear line between the harmless and playful and the harmful and cruel, we increasingly see young adults throughout our nation incapable of distinguishing between healthy and destructive conduct. Boundaries are all too often exceeded. The social use of alcohol moves easily and too frequently to dangerous irresponsibility. Innocent and healthy stages of interpersonal social encounters too frequently degrade to violent and personal acts of violation. We see symptoms of a culture of personal license so powerfully magnified in the actions of these young men."


http://www.bsc.edu/communications/news/active/20060308_...

Of course, it doesn't help that our leaders are exactly the sort of individuals this piece is describing. Bush, for starters, with his hilarious "where are the WMD?" gag. And don't even get me started on his mother...
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Mind_your_head Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #29
36. I beg to differ about the school seeing the problem
It seems to me that the school is placing the blame on "society" (symptoms of a culture of personal license) and also on alcohol (The social use of alcohol)

Considering that this is a Baptist School, Birmingham-Southern College, and that Baptists don't like alcohol anyway. They will just use this to say that 'alcohol is bad, see?'. These boys weren't using alcohol "socially", they were repeatedly ABUSING it REGULARLY...HUGE difference that this college is not making a wise, mature distinction about. Do they have discussions with their students about the differences between 'social drinking' and 'abuse'?

As for blaming the "culture", well gee....doesn't a college have a huge influence on today's culture, considering they teach thousands of students every year? Does Birmingham-Southern (or the Baptist community at large) foster 'deep-thinking' among their members or does 'being popular' mean EVERYTHING? Are there classes, discussions, and exercises throughout a Baptist's whole church life from childhood about how an individual's words and actions have consequences - and to think about the consequences to OTHERS (first) and then YOURSELF (second) before you do something? Perhaps by teaching this ONE THING to their students, they will indeed have a large positive effect on our culture, rather than blaming the deficits of it on some "unnamed other" out there. What's that bible verse, 'take the log out of your own eye before you see the spec in someone else's eye'.

/rant off
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LizW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
6. "...no out-of-control aspect to it..."
right up until they burned down ten churches and called it a joke.

:eyes:
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slide to the left Donating Member (602 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
7. I dated a guy that went there.
He was an asshole
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Gormy Cuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
10. Anyone else think that it's unlikely they'll do time?
Edited on Fri Mar-10-06 11:00 AM by Gormy Cuss
Here's the way I see the arguments laid out:
1. It was a youthful prank; nobody died.
2. They are clean-cut white college boys pulling a prank.
3. No drug manufacture or dealing was involved; it was harmless frat boy fun.
4. They burned churches without regard for the racial makeup of the congregation; they're no racists.
5. Nobody died.

I will be very surprised if their punishment is any more severe than one to six months in a minimum security facility like a county jail and an order of restitution. Two years of community service and two years probation is more likely.
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Bozita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. If they were Arab-Americans, ...??
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #13
31. Don't forget Tweety made the remark about the arsonists being gay!!
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Syncronaut Seven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. I hit the fucking roof when I heard that shit!
Simply Un-believable

These boys need consecutive terms on all counts. Let's see them flick their bic with arthritic 70 year old fingers.

10 churches, that's a lot of pissed off paritioners. They're not ALL going to turn the other cheek.

On second thought, I'd be willing to cut them some slack if they'll complete 4 tours of duty in Iraq. We'll fix them up nice in a shiney new SUV. It'll be just like disneyland.
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Mind_your_head Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #14
26. True about a lot of pissed off parishioners....
Edited on Fri Mar-10-06 12:22 PM by Mind_your_head
...and parishioners from other neighboring churches/parishes that will be put out as well.

A church in my community burned down a few years ago. This is quickly SOME of the reality of what happens.

People can't get married, baptised, or buried in the church that they know/grew up in. Marriages, baptisms, funerals etc. now will happen in gymnasiums, or any other large space you can find. Neighboring churches may offer their facilities for use, but that puts stress on THOSE already stressed churches time slots and finances. Some of those churches could have gotten compensated for using their facilities under normal circumstances, but they will often (generously) let the burned out church use them at no charge - it's called 'community'. But there is a big loss of revenue for other churches in the area. On another side, you've got to think about re-building and financing that rebuilding...the fundraisers and the financial committment that area people will be asked to donate.

It's HUGE in it's scope when something like this happens. It was only ONE church in my area....this is TEN churches all at the same time!!! What a burden these boys so carelessly inflicted on whole communities. They clearly are a menace to society. As they have so dearly hurt and will "put so many people out" in so many ways (emotionally, physically, financially).

I think the lawyers for these boys are trying to do a spin job for their clients. (Think of the lawyer for "Roxie" in the show/movie "Chicago"). I don't think it will work...or at least I hope it doesn't work.

edited for clarity
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
11. Is Birmingham-Southern College predominantly Republican? n/t
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seriousstan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. Doubt it, it is a liberal arts college. You know the kind of folks that go
to THOSE kinds of colleges.
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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #15
20. It's a private school - takes a lot of money...
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seriousstan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. So your point is that they are rich Dems?
They wouldn't ride in limousines, would they?

:sarcasm:

The point being, not everything is left and right, sometimes it is right and wrong.
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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. What I am saying is that, at least in this state, the wealthier you
are, the more likely that you will be Republican - or, at least, come from a Republican family. The "liberal arts" nature of the school notwithstanding...
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Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
18. And they are sacks of shit and should be locked up.
John Wayne Gacy was decribed as a perfectly likable man too. Granted, their crimes are not as bad as his, but the principle remains.
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yellowcanine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
22. They CONFESSED to setting fire to NINE churches. Thank God there
"was no out-of control aspect to it." Think what might have happened if they HAD been out of control. :sarcasm:
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Bozita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
28. If "Happy Holidays" is an attack on Christmas, WTF is this?
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Sequoia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
32. These boys cut from same bolt of cloth as Columbine boys.
Edited on Fri Mar-10-06 12:51 PM by Sequoia
Minus the black trench coats.

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HuffleClaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
33. funny how when its a white suspect the media can find all sorts of good
things to say about them.
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mikeytherat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
34. The Booze Defense:
"They were typical college students. They did like a drink. They enjoyed a good time."

"Nothing happened," Burgess said. "Some friends of ours and the two of us were in the middle of the woods, playing guitar. They had some beer."

"Boundaries are all too often exceeded. The social use of alcohol moves easily and too frequently to dangerous irresponsibility."

And these are just a sample - there are plenty more alcohol references in the associated articles.

mikey_the_rat
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MODemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
35. They've shown the world they're not very intelligent
I've heard of pushing over old toilets, etc. on Halloween, and figured it as a prank, but burning ten churches is not even close to being a prank. It's ARSON, pure and simple. They must of enjoyed a lot of drinks to get that violent. :evilfrown: :mad: :dunce: :dunce: :dunce: :nopity:
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